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Ebor
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« Reply #225 on: June 16, 2012, 09:31:18 PM » |
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I was writing about the African blacks before the Civil War, when they were deliberately not being edified towards Christianity by the Christians in the South, because to do so, it would have meant they were human beings and shouldn't be kept as slaves.
This is not correct. There were plenty of cases where slaves were taught Christianity as well as learned to read and write. Case in point General Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson supported with money and work a Sunday School for both freedmen and slaves. Here is a link to a letter from 1858 in the archives of Virginia Military Institute in which he describes how the school works: http://www.vmi.edu/archives.aspx?id=9269I would have to look for it, but some time ago I read of an letter that he sent home during the Civil War which rather then news of the conflict, which people thought he would write about, he was sending funds to continue the school. There were also numerous cases of slaves or former slaves who were literate and Christian. These include Phillis Wheatley http://www.masshist.org/endofslavery/?queryID=57and Absolom Jones, born in slavery who taught himself to read, bought the freedom of his wife and himself and became the first Episcopal priest of African descent in the United States. http://www.aecst.org/ajones.htm Benjamin Banneker, who had never been a slave, was educated and an important figure. It was after the suppressed revolt led by Denmark Vesey in 1822 and particularly the Nat Turner Revolt in 1831 that there were more laws passed to forbid literacy. This was to prevent the slaves from reading abolitionist materials and to think of other ways of living. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark_Veseyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_during_the_Slave_PeriodWhat have you read that suggested that slaveholders did not try to teach Christianity to their slaves? Do you recall any sources please? Ebor It was a text book of my granddaughters that was a compilation of letters from educated blacks. There were exceptions of course, and I did read a biography about an exceptionally bright black slave in the Caribbean that managed to educate himself and bought his freedom. I wish I could recall his name, but he had a successful business and spoke to Parlament against slavery. He later became a minister and married in Britain. If the title should come to you, would you please post it? Was the person you're thinking of Olaudah Equiano? http://abolition.e2bn.org/people_25.htmlThese books also changed my mind about slavery in the South, since I couldn't imagine Southerners being any different pre Civil War than the way they are now.
 not any different? Why not? Things have changed in the past 150 years or even in the past 50 years. Not everything, but some. I gathered from these books that a bright black slave could gain favors and even an education, something that the others who were made to work in the fields could not. Also many of them were the illegitimate children or grandchildren of the slave owners, which was a step above what existed in the Muslim world. Hardly a step up when they were still counted as slaves and were at times sold away from their mothers. Their paternity did not count for special treatment. They were stock and property. Some slave-owners had in effect 'breeding programs' just as they would have for horses or cattle or other livestock. Field hands didn't have the leisure to teach themselves to read but that doesn't mean that they weren't intelligent and private religious meetings at night were known even if the preacher read only a little or not at all. As you know, there was a difference in the position of the slaves that worked in the fields and the brighter slaves that worked in the homes. I'm sure the nannies that nursed and raised the children of the owners were well loved and I'm sure they were Christian. I was shocked though at some of the stories, such as the black children running around naked even in cold weather. It was not a question of intelligence but strength and endurance for many of the field-slaves. There were also slaves who were taught trades or skills which then earned the owner money. That was one way for some of them to earn enough to buy their freedom *if the owner accepted it*. Some, such as the widow of the man who owned Dred Scott, refused this. Denmark Vesey, mentioned above won a lottery and used the money to buy his freedom. The teaching of Christianity to slaves and taking them to church was fairly common. The slaves were in the back or in balconies in many church buildings. I've been told that sometimes these areas had places to attach the chains to prevent escape. As for the blacks being looked upon as not being fully human, it was a sign of the times. There is a book in the Smithsonian called: Apes and Angels, with caricatures of the Irish who at the time were considered white apes. These weren't only British caricatures. Many were American. :
I have heard of the book, though I have not had a chance to read it. Not regarding others as fully Human is hardly limited to the antebellum South and can still be found. The "Other" the "Not-like-me" is often a target. Native Americans, people from other countries or cultures and those with deformities have also been treated miserably. People who live in rural areas are sometimes discounted, or people in the inner cities. Adult women were not considered as fully human as an adult male for example, as can be read in the Declaration of Sentiments from the Seneca Falls Convention of 1848 http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/senecafalls.aspReal history is complicated. |
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« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 09:32:24 PM by Ebor »
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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis
The Katana of Reasoned Discussion
For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
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vamrat
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« Reply #226 on: June 17, 2012, 01:38:58 AM » |
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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! This really is a moot point. Slaves were pretty much the Pokemon cards of the day. Atrocities were committed in the past. In those days most took part due to group think and only a few spoke out. Even I bought and sold Pokemon back in the late 20th Century. But I learned the errors of my ways and have moved on. Pokemon is an outdated institution. One day slavery will be the same.
Grossly insensitive and I know you know better than that  Pokemon cards were a fashion, slavery was an institution. Pokemon cards are objects, slaves were people. stay blessed, habte selassie Grossly insensitive, but I was trying to make a point. The whole debate is pointless. We are worrying about things that Christians did in the past. It is good to learn from the past and if the Church were trying to reinstitute it, it might be something to worry about. This is just like how my ex used to bring up crap from months to years in the past to complain about. If we are going to worry about slavery today, lets start another thread about moslems. Like that why bother about anything that ever happened anywhere? It's all past. Isn't it interesting that when one talks of trying to understand the Roman Church and enter into dialogue with it in an effort to heal the Great Schism, all of sudden to some, history become the trump card which stops all such talk 'dead on the tracks' ----the Crusades, the Unia and so on....But when history runs into the perceived belief requirements of some of contemporary American political discourse, it isn't relevant and should be overlooked. Hmmmm..... I agree that for the most part the past is the past and judging people and institutions by the behaviors of actors long dead does lead to mostly a lot of whining. Please reread what I wrote. Actually, don't bother. With the modern miracles of "cut and paste" I can just re-write it in seconds... "It is good to learn from the past and if the Church were trying to reinstitute it, it might be something to worry about." When was the last time the Church bought and sold slaves? When was the last time a bishop or abbot brought up the subject of reinstituting slavery? If the answer to these questions is >100 years ago...why are you worrying about it? Sure, understand the past and what happened. But also, please tell me how you intend to utilize this knowledge to deal with current issues. As for Catholics vs Orthodox the situation really hasn't changed. We are still separate Churches. They have added lot's of extraneous bits. Until they make some significant changes it really is worthless to think about reintegrating with them. These issues are in the present. They are yesterday, today, and unless something significant is happening in Italy as I type this, I'd hazard the bet that they will be here tomorrow morning as well. As for Catholic vs Orthodox 'incidents', I can name one shooting war within the last 20 years that was sectarian in nature. If you want to try and deal with current issues of slavery I think you will find that many Orthodox Christians will be in agreement with you...with a smaller vocal minority supporting the opposition, explaining it away, and accusing you of being overly judgmental for bringing it up. |
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It is an education process for me as I learn about the psychology of spiritual apostasy. And others get the benefit of perhaps hearing righteousness for the first time.
Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God.
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« Reply #227 on: June 17, 2012, 08:37:23 PM » |
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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! This really is a moot point. Slaves were pretty much the Pokemon cards of the day. Atrocities were committed in the past. In those days most took part due to group think and only a few spoke out. Even I bought and sold Pokemon back in the late 20th Century. But I learned the errors of my ways and have moved on. Pokemon is an outdated institution. One day slavery will be the same.
Grossly insensitive and I know you know better than that Pokemon cards were a fashion, slavery was an institution. Pokemon cards are objects, slaves were people. stay blessed, habte selassie Grossly insensitive, but I was trying to make a point. The whole debate is pointless. We are worrying about things that Christians did in the past. It is good to learn from the past and if the Church were trying to reinstitute it, it might be something to worry about. This is just like how my ex used to bring up crap from months to years in the past to complain about. If we are going to worry about slavery today, lets start another thread about moslems. Like that why bother about anything that ever happened anywhere? It's all past. Isn't it interesting that when one talks of trying to understand the Roman Church and enter into dialogue with it in an effort to heal the Great Schism, all of sudden to some, history become the trump card which stops all such talk 'dead on the tracks' ----the Crusades, the Unia and so on....But when history runs into the perceived belief requirements of some of contemporary American political discourse, it isn't relevant and should be overlooked. Hmmmm..... I agree that for the most part the past is the past and judging people and institutions by the behaviors of actors long dead does lead to mostly a lot of whining. "Proof-texting" history. (And forgetting, er...ignoring Christ's message of forgiveness, redemption, etc.) |
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"Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it."
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J Michael
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« Reply #229 on: June 18, 2012, 02:06:44 PM » |
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And it appears that at least one Orthodox Christian has completely (or is is deliberately?) misunderstood Devin's words and intention. (Btw, I know of at least one Orthodox priest who would have loved nothing more than to implement Devin's ideas in the real world.) |
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"Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it."
— St. Augustine of Hippo
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #230 on: June 18, 2012, 03:55:37 PM » |
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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
The whole debate is pointless. We are worrying about things that Christians did in the past.
Finally, someone who gets it. The past is not dead and forgotten, and history is not static. Our present is entirely shaped by our past. To deny the past, is to doom yourself to repeat it. To ignore the cause-effect connections between events in the past and the present, is to completely misunderstand how our present world operates. History is integral to the present moment, and we can't simply forget about the past because sometimes it makes us uncomfortable, if anything, it is these uncomfortable realities of history which make the largest waves and have the biggest impact on the present. So, no, it is not irrelevant to discuss wrongs of the past by Christians, that is, unless, folks in the present honestly don't see what was wrong in the first place  stay blessed, habte selassie |
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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
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GabrieltheCelt
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« Reply #231 on: June 18, 2012, 04:46:53 PM » |
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The past is not dead and forgotten, and history is not static. Our present is entirely shaped by our past. To deny the past, is to doom yourself to repeat it. Blah blah blah. HumptysLassie, this whole circus of a thread hasn't changed anyone's mind. And just in case no one's told you yet, this isn't a casting call for a Malcolm X wannabe. stay blessed,
Just as long as you're irritated with us whitey's.   Warned for 30 days for gross disrespect of others. Second Chance |
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J Michael
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« Reply #232 on: June 18, 2012, 04:49:44 PM » |
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The past is not dead and forgotten, and history is not static. Our present is entirely shaped by our past. To deny the past, is to doom yourself to repeat it. Blah blah blah. HumptysLassie, this whole circus of a thread hasn't changed anyone's mind. And just in case no one's told you yet, this isn't a casting call for a Malcolm X wannabe. stay blessed,
Just as long as you're irritated with us whitey's. Whoaa.....what was all of *that*? |
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"Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it."
— St. Augustine of Hippo
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GabrieltheCelt
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« Reply #233 on: June 18, 2012, 05:07:13 PM » |
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The past is not dead and forgotten, and history is not static. Our present is entirely shaped by our past. To deny the past, is to doom yourself to repeat it. Blah blah blah. HumptysLassie, this whole circus of a thread hasn't changed anyone's mind. And just in case no one's told you yet, this isn't a casting call for a Malcolm X wannabe. stay blessed,
Just as long as you're irritated with us whitey's. Whoaa.....what was all of *that*? Because you have yet to understand me, why not let these things play out? But if you must know, I'm teasing the world's only white Black Panther. |
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #234 on: June 18, 2012, 05:26:35 PM » |
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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Blah blah blah. HumptysLassie, this whole circus of a thread hasn't changed anyone's mind. And just in case no one's told you yet, this isn't a casting call for a Malcolm X wannabe.
But if you must know, I'm teasing the world's only white Black Panther.
Really? stay blessed, habte selassie |
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« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 05:37:40 PM by HabteSelassie »
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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
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Zenovia
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Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese
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« Reply #235 on: June 18, 2012, 08:12:34 PM » |
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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
The whole debate is pointless. We are worrying about things that Christians did in the past.
Finally, someone who gets it. The past is not dead and forgotten, and history is not static. Our present is entirely shaped by our past. To deny the past, is to doom yourself to repeat it. To ignore the cause-effect connections between events in the past and the present, is to completely misunderstand how our present world operates. History is integral to the present moment, and we can't simply forget about the past because sometimes it makes us uncomfortable, if anything, it is these uncomfortable realities of history which make the largest waves and have the biggest impact on the present. So, no, it is not irrelevant to discuss wrongs of the past by Christians, that is, unless, folks in the present honestly don't see what was wrong in the first place stay blessed, habte selassie We should never forget the past because if we do we are bound to repeat it, but that said, we have to realize that the past is written by humans, and humans can only see things through their own cultural eyes, and experiences. There are always two sides and both should really be looked at. For example, in the past the Native Americans were always the 'bad' guys, while today it's more politically correct to see the Native Americans as being the good guys. If this was not so, then what is the point of 'Christianity' if it doesn't better ones soul? One person on a forum I was on, responded to comments about the sufferings of the American Indians by saying how his grandfather and a bunch of others went out and killed them all. They just couldn't stand hearing the screams every night of someone as he was being skinned alive. .. And this reminds me of something else. When I was young the teachers would always point out to us the evil caste system in India...which still exists even today since its part of the Hindu faith, also how the English stopped the practice of women throwing theselves onto their husbands funeral bier. Yet today, we find it more politically correct to look at the English as being racist...especially in India. As a Christian I believe that when people are in God's Grace, the 'love' within their hearts will emanate throughout and touch everyone and everything. By the same token, when people are away from God, the evil and hatred inside of them will also emanate throughout and not only destroy others, but will eventually bring about their own destruction. I find this especially true with 'heathens'...and by that I also mean those Christians that delve in the occult. |
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Father H
Formerly "FatherHLL"
OC.net guru
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« Reply #236 on: June 19, 2012, 03:05:25 PM » |
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Like that why bother about anything that ever happened anywhere? It's all past.
Pretty much. Most of the evil in the world comes from someone whining so much about the past that someone in the present gets sick and tired of it and gives him something to really whine about. How about that?!  For once you and I agree on something.  I bet there are a lot of us who agree on this one. kudos to punch |
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #237 on: June 19, 2012, 04:29:17 PM » |
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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!  Blessed Juneteenth to y'all! These kinds of holidays are not exclusively "black" holidays, all of Americans works towards emancipation, just as all Americans worked towards Civil Rights (well that is, except for those bad apples that insisted on working in the opposite direction ) One of the problem with slavery and Jim Crow in American history is we have wrongly correlated these as black events, but whites folks, all folks were involved at all ends. Americans worked together, regardless of colorlines, in fact blatantly in disregard to them, to achieve a better equality in our society. When we lived where human beings were treated with less regard than animals, it took a majority of the country to step up. I can only pray that in the future, people will be so kindly inclined to work together for a greater good as we have in the past, rather then quarrelling and bickering over who is and who isn't culpible for the wrongs of the past. The reality is we all are collectively wrong, which is why we all equally owe the same obligations towards making things right.Today however, we celebrate the victories, we celebrate the heroes, we celebrate life! stay blessed, habte selassie |
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« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 04:31:22 PM by HabteSelassie »
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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
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orthonorm
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« Reply #238 on: June 19, 2012, 04:42:21 PM » |
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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! Blessed Juneteenth to y'all! These kinds of holidays are not exclusively "black" holidays, all of Americans works towards emancipation, just as all Americans worked towards Civil Rights (well that is, except for those bad apples that insisted on working in the opposite direction ) One of the problem with slavery and Jim Crow in American history is we have wrongly correlated these as black events, but whites folks, all folks were involved at all ends. Americans worked together, regardless of colorlines, in fact blatantly in disregard to them, to achieve a better equality in our society. When we lived where human beings were treated with less regard than animals, it took a majority of the country to step up. I can only pray that in the future, people will be so kindly inclined to work together for a greater good as we have in the past, rather then quarrelling and bickering over who is and who isn't culpible for the wrongs of the past. The reality is we all are collectively wrong, which is why we all equally owe the same obligations towards making things right.Today however, we celebrate the victories, we celebrate the heroes, we celebrate life! stay blessed, habte selassie LOL. (Checks forum, not private, oh well . . .) Not a "black" holiday? I just mentioned Juneteenth to a buncha white Americans and Latin Americans last week when we were discussing up coming holidays and they looked at me like I was crazy. When I told it was an official State holiday, they thought I was just being me. EDIT: Will make the game more interesting tonight, as I am usually one of the few white faces in the place. The celebration of Miami's victory will be all the more "lively". |
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« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 04:43:47 PM by orthonorm »
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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J Michael
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« Reply #239 on: June 19, 2012, 04:44:28 PM » |
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The past is not dead and forgotten, and history is not static. Our present is entirely shaped by our past. To deny the past, is to doom yourself to repeat it. Blah blah blah. HumptysLassie, this whole circus of a thread hasn't changed anyone's mind. And just in case no one's told you yet, this isn't a casting call for a Malcolm X wannabe. stay blessed,
Just as long as you're irritated with us whitey's. Whoaa.....what was all of *that*? Because you have yet to understand me, why not let these things play out? But if you must know, I'm teasing the world's only white Black Panther. What, HabteSelassie is really Bill Clinton?? |
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"Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it."
— St. Augustine of Hippo
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orthonorm
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« Reply #240 on: June 19, 2012, 04:47:28 PM » |
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The past is not dead and forgotten, and history is not static. Our present is entirely shaped by our past. To deny the past, is to doom yourself to repeat it. Blah blah blah. HumptysLassie, this whole circus of a thread hasn't changed anyone's mind. And just in case no one's told you yet, this isn't a casting call for a Malcolm X wannabe. stay blessed,
Just as long as you're irritated with us whitey's. Whoaa.....what was all of *that*? Because you have yet to understand me, why not let these things play out? But if you must know, I'm teasing the world's only white Black Panther. What, HabteSelassie is really Bill Clinton?? While he was our first black President, he was too nouveau bougie to ever have been a Black Panther. |
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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J Michael
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« Reply #241 on: June 19, 2012, 04:48:49 PM » |
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The past is not dead and forgotten, and history is not static. Our present is entirely shaped by our past. To deny the past, is to doom yourself to repeat it. Blah blah blah. HumptysLassie, this whole circus of a thread hasn't changed anyone's mind. And just in case no one's told you yet, this isn't a casting call for a Malcolm X wannabe. stay blessed,
Just as long as you're irritated with us whitey's. Whoaa.....what was all of *that*? Because you have yet to understand me, why not let these things play out? But if you must know, I'm teasing the world's only white Black Panther. What, HabteSelassie is really Bill Clinton?? While he was our first black President, he was too nouveau bougie to ever have been a Black Panther. Ya nevah know. |
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"Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it."
— St. Augustine of Hippo
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #242 on: June 19, 2012, 04:53:35 PM » |
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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!  (balanced the budget y'all ) stay blessed, habte selassie |
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« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 04:54:48 PM by HabteSelassie »
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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
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Zenovia
Sr. Member
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Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese
Posts: 777
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« Reply #243 on: June 19, 2012, 07:01:04 PM » |
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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! (balanced the budget y'all ) stay blessed, habte selassie Yeah he did balance the budget, he knew how to work with the Republican Congress when they were voted in, something this president is not willing to do. They say Clinton's knowledge in the discussions amazed everyone. In contrast, Obama would be seen walking his dog outside, but would never come in to join in any of the discussions. Bill Clinton though, also had us enter a civil war that would give the Islamists a nation in the middle of Europe, to the chagrin of the Europeans of course. I guess he wanted to facilitate the Muslims in planning their next move towards a future caliphate.  |
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GabrieltheCelt
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« Reply #244 on: June 19, 2012, 07:47:37 PM » |
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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Blah blah blah. HumptysLassie, this whole circus of a thread hasn't changed anyone's mind. And just in case no one's told you yet, this isn't a casting call for a Malcolm X wannabe.
But if you must know, I'm teasing the world's only white Black Panther.
Really?stay blessed, habte selassie So there's you and a Romanian Jew. I stand corrected.  |
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #245 on: June 19, 2012, 08:29:56 PM » |
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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Blah blah blah. HumptysLassie, this whole circus of a thread hasn't changed anyone's mind. And just in case no one's told you yet, this isn't a casting call for a Malcolm X wannabe.
But if you must know, I'm teasing the world's only white Black Panther.
Really?stay blessed, habte selassie So there's you and a Romanian Jew. I stand corrected. No, wait, you got that wrong. I wasn't suggesting that Harvey Keitel was a Panther, I was trying my best to be cool like the Wolf at how immature your "teasing" was and in reality, how flippantly disrespectful. I know you may have had the best intentions and attempt at being light-hearted, but the subject, content, context, and choice of your words are very telling to those who have eyes to see stay blessed, habte selassie |
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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
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stanley123
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« Reply #246 on: June 19, 2012, 10:38:11 PM » |
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Bill Clinton though, also had us enter a civil war that would give the Islamists a nation in the middle of Europe, to the chagrin of the Europeans of course. I guess he wanted to facilitate the Muslims in planning their next move towards a future caliphate. I don't see why Clinton would want to establish a Muslim caliphate in Europe. From what I have read about the Yugoslavian conflict, it appears that the Albright wanted the USA to enter the war since according to the information she had, Serbian Orthodox soldiers were killing hundreds of Bosnian Muslim men and boys point blank in the back of the head, and there is a disturbing video freely available on the internet, which appears to confirm this. Furthermore, the reports were that Bosnian muslim women were being raped by the Serbs. |
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« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 10:40:05 PM by stanley123 »
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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #247 on: June 20, 2012, 02:51:47 AM » |
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I don't see why Clinton would want to establish a Muslim caliphate in Europe.
Quote of the Month for randomness. |
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« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 02:52:01 AM by NicholasMyra »
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vamrat
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« Reply #248 on: June 20, 2012, 09:47:30 AM » |
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Bill Clinton though, also had us enter a civil war that would give the Islamists a nation in the middle of Europe, to the chagrin of the Europeans of course. I guess he wanted to facilitate the Muslims in planning their next move towards a future caliphate. I don't see why Clinton would want to establish a Muslim caliphate in Europe. From what I have read about the Yugoslavian conflict, it appears that the Albright wanted the USA to enter the war since according to the information she had, Serbian Orthodox soldiers were killing hundreds of Bosnian Muslim men and boys point blank in the back of the head, and there is a disturbing video freely available on the internet, which appears to confirm this. Furthermore, the reports were that Bosnian muslim women were being raped by the Serbs. You are spot on. The US has always been interested in fighting wars to end genocide. If the US wasn't interested in ending genocides, how would that explain our follow up actions bombing Bosniaks and Croatians and our interventions in Zimbabwe, Sierra Leone, Rwanda, Liberia, South Sudan, and Burma? |
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It is an education process for me as I learn about the psychology of spiritual apostasy. And others get the benefit of perhaps hearing righteousness for the first time.
Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God.
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J Michael
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« Reply #249 on: June 20, 2012, 12:35:00 PM » |
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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! (balanced the budget y'all ) stay blessed, habte selassie There's some good in everyone. |
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"Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it."
— St. Augustine of Hippo
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J Michael
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« Reply #250 on: June 20, 2012, 12:38:58 PM » |
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Bill Clinton though, also had us enter a civil war that would give the Islamists a nation in the middle of Europe, to the chagrin of the Europeans of course. I guess he wanted to facilitate the Muslims in planning their next move towards a future caliphate. I don't see why Clinton would want to establish a Muslim caliphate in Europe. He probably didn't "want" to, but there is that devilish little thing called "the law of unintended consequences". |
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"Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it."
— St. Augustine of Hippo
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Iconodule
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« Reply #251 on: June 20, 2012, 01:54:07 PM » |
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Bill Clinton though, also had us enter a civil war that would give the Islamists a nation in the middle of Europe, to the chagrin of the Europeans of course. I guess he wanted to facilitate the Muslims in planning their next move towards a future caliphate. I don't see why Clinton would want to establish a Muslim caliphate in Europe. He probably didn't "want" to, but there is that devilish little thing called "the law of unintended consequences". Right, nothing says "impending caliphate" like a parliamentary multi-party democracy. |
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"A Poet a Painter a Musician an Architect: the Man Or Woman who is not one of these is not a Christian." - William Blake
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