OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 03, 2014, 01:49:13 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Friction During Discussion  (Read 665 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« on: June 10, 2012, 09:01:00 PM »

I have noticed since joining the Orthodox Church, Protestants (not all) seem very aggressive in conversation when speaking about theology.  Looking back, I fear I was the same way, but I do not remember being so (for lack of a better term) angry in my discussions.  I am completely at a loss for the reason.  During some discussions I have found there really is some anger between Protestants and Roman Catholics and as a result, Orthodox Christians appear to be automatically placed into the Roman Catholic category.  Again, not all Protestants act this way, but enough do to cause me alarm.  Recently, it has been virtually impossible to have any meaningful dialogue with some as a result.  A few have even reverted to personal verbal assaults toward individuals, and when I point this out to them they accuse me of placing myself on a high perch as a holier than thou person.

I suppose I am looking for any insight or guidance which may help me understand the reason and how to combat it without ignoring them.  Such conflict makes it impossible to talk to some people. 

Being new to this forum, I hope I have not violated any rules.  I truly am only trying to understand why there is so much hostility in some people.
Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2012, 09:14:03 PM »

I actually take solace whenever Prots get self-righteous. It has a nice subtle humor to it.

I think you just need to remain calm in the situation, let Prots talk as much as they want. If you give in, you will just end up very frustrated and angry. They want to sound like they are the arbiters of theology, so be it. There's no use in talking to them, rationally at least.

Shake the dust on your feet and move on.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
KBN1
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: EO
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 888



« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2012, 10:10:39 PM »

If someone asks me what I think about something or what the Orthodox Church teaches on a subject and if it seems that they ask with genuine interest, I will tell them.  If they are just pontificating I keep my mouth shut.  If someone reacts angrily (and irrationally) to how I answered I will apologize and politely disengage.  If I have answered inconsiderately I will just apologize.

My older sister once asked me about the position of woman in the Orthodox Church and the view of the places and roles of the sexes in Orthodoxy.  It was a civil discussion and I tried to answer as best I could.  From the sidelines my brother-in-law launched into a rant about the misogyny of Orthodoxy and while the subject certainly should be discussed, his rant was emotionalism based on one woman he knows who grew up in the Orthodox Church and left because she couldn't be an ordained priest.  He attacked me personally as well.  I thank God that all I said was, "I'm sorry, I don't think there is anything I can say that will satisfy you.  The Orthodox Church as you understand it and the Orthodox Church as I understand it are different things."  It ended the discussion and the next day he apologized to me and we agreed that we wouldn't ask each other to debate theological positions and we wouldn't offer our opinions except when asked and that the answers would stay on subject.  There has been peace since then.
Logged
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: On-n-Off
Jurisdiction: OCA (the only truly Canonical American Orthodox Church)
Posts: 5,562


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2012, 11:19:15 PM »

Protestants like to see themselves as prophets who contain the true theological message of Christ and thus when someone disagrees with them they feel offended or 'persecuted for righteousness sake'. This is dangerous because they then become deceived with the notion that God is using them as a martyr witness of the faith and they only become too eager to stir trouble. I think that this is why they get so hostile and that a major factor in why they think like this comes with how they study the Bible. When we read the Bible we approach it as a student using guidance from the Church whereas Protestants like to individually approach it and read it like they are a pseudo-prophet that is going to discover something amazing that no one else has discovered; thus, they see themselves as prophets on a martyr mission from God. Talk about megalomania.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,491



« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2012, 12:06:11 AM »

Protestants like to see themselves as prophets who contain the true theological message of Christ and thus when someone disagrees with them they feel offended or 'persecuted for righteousness sake'. This is dangerous because they then become deceived with the notion that God is using them as a martyr witness of the faith and they only become too eager to stir trouble. I think that this is why they get so hostile and that a major factor in why they think like this comes with how they study the Bible. When we read the Bible we approach it as a student using guidance from the Church whereas Protestants like to individually approach it and read it like they are a pseudo-prophet that is going to discover something amazing that no one else has discovered; thus, they see themselves as prophets on a martyr mission from God. Talk about megalomania.

Your one size fits all view of "Protestantism" would be a great place to start that discussion.
Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2012, 12:16:36 AM »

Protestants like to see themselves as prophets who contain the true theological message of Christ and thus when someone disagrees with them they feel offended or 'persecuted for righteousness sake'. This is dangerous because they then become deceived with the notion that God is using them as a martyr witness of the faith and they only become too eager to stir trouble. I think that this is why they get so hostile and that a major factor in why they think like this comes with how they study the Bible. When we read the Bible we approach it as a student using guidance from the Church whereas Protestants like to individually approach it and read it like they are a pseudo-prophet that is going to discover something amazing that no one else has discovered; thus, they see themselves as prophets on a martyr mission from God. Talk about megalomania.

Your one size fits all view of "Protestantism" would be a great place to start that discussion.

JamesR's post was epic.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
neon_knights
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 513


My political hero.


« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2012, 12:17:59 AM »

Protestants like to see themselves as prophets who contain the true theological message of Christ and thus when someone disagrees with them they feel offended or 'persecuted for righteousness sake'. This is dangerous because they then become deceived with the notion that God is using them as a martyr witness of the faith and they only become too eager to stir trouble. I think that this is why they get so hostile and that a major factor in why they think like this comes with how they study the Bible. When we read the Bible we approach it as a student using guidance from the Church whereas Protestants like to individually approach it and read it like they are a pseudo-prophet that is going to discover something amazing that no one else has discovered; thus, they see themselves as prophets on a martyr mission from God. Talk about megalomania.

Your one size fits all view of "Protestantism" would be a great place to start that discussion.

+1

James, I would be careful in trying to become a spokesman for the Orthodox Church. Remember that you are a learner, not an instructor. I would think you are a little early in your Orthodox journey to be issuing cyber-anathemas and blanket statements towards other Christian persuasions.
Logged
orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,491



« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2012, 12:25:21 AM »

Protestants like to see themselves as prophets who contain the true theological message of Christ and thus when someone disagrees with them they feel offended or 'persecuted for righteousness sake'. This is dangerous because they then become deceived with the notion that God is using them as a martyr witness of the faith and they only become too eager to stir trouble. I think that this is why they get so hostile and that a major factor in why they think like this comes with how they study the Bible. When we read the Bible we approach it as a student using guidance from the Church whereas Protestants like to individually approach it and read it like they are a pseudo-prophet that is going to discover something amazing that no one else has discovered; thus, they see themselves as prophets on a martyr mission from God. Talk about megalomania.

Your one size fits all view of "Protestantism" would be a great place to start that discussion.

JamesR's post was epic.

James has the style and the brains to be sure, he just needs to dial it back a bit for his own future sanity.

The kid will be a monster of internetz some day.

EDIT: Been watching too much sportz when I start doing commentary on internetz.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 12:26:15 AM by orthonorm » Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
Nicene
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 597


« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2012, 12:30:19 AM »

I'm still aggressive, though I hope I'm at least more poinent.
Logged

Thank you.
alanscott
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant
Jurisdiction: Wesleyan
Posts: 309



« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2012, 11:05:33 AM »

Welcome to OC.net Kerdy!

If I may be as bold as to suggest that in some cases at least, when in a discussion of such, that anger stems from an insecurity of the point one is attempting to make. If we are not completely secure in our knowledge or belief when confronted by an opposing belief we all too often get frustrated and ‘angry’ in our defense. It is defensiveness.

Could this be compounded by cleavage? Cleavage is a powerful thing that makes it difficult to keep an open mind and an open heart to opposing ideas as that could discredit what we are cleaving to.

How to respond? It was actually Orthodoxy (OC.net TY Hebeste) that revealed to me the Truth that emotions such as anger and insecurity are actually manifestations of fear. That fear can only be defeated by Love – God.  When confronted by such anger in theological discussions consider responding only with Love, consideration, and prayer.

“A soft answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.” Proverbs 15:1

There are times I’m afraid when mankind does not want Truth. A stubborn mind and hardened heart repels it. (this I do know for myself as who is more foolish than I?) I’m told to remember that it is not just man working against such deception from the evil one, but God too is working in others. Respond with Love and Understanding knowing you are the example and where your efforts seem not to penetrate and are rebelled against that God too is working.

Thats my 2 pennies anyway.

God Bless!
Logged

There are heathens that live with more virtue than I. The devil himself believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Neither of these things truly makes me Christian.
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2012, 07:32:26 PM »

Many thanks for the replies.  I try not to be harsh because I was once one of them and it took patience from kind people and loving hearts to work with me as I traveled into Orthodoxy.  I want so very much to do the same for others, but I suppose my personality makes it more difficult than it should be.

PS-Thanks for the welcome alanscott!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 07:33:49 PM by Kerdy » Logged
NicholasMyra
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian/Greek
Posts: 5,856


Avowed denominationalist


« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2012, 01:30:51 AM »

Protestants like to individually approach it and read it like they are a pseudo-prophet that is going to discover something amazing that no one else has discovered
Like this guy?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/emergingorthodox
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 01:31:23 AM by NicholasMyra » Logged

Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

"You are philosophical innovators. As for me, I follow the Fathers." -Every heresiarch ever
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.065 seconds with 39 queries.