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Author Topic: Zondervan KJV Study Bible  (Read 1307 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: June 05, 2012, 08:01:01 PM »

Does anybody know if it would be acceptable to use the Zondervan KJV Study Bble as ones primary Bble?  It appears to be laid out quite similar to the ESV Study Bible.
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« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2012, 10:46:35 PM »

To be honest, the KJV translation is really outdated and there are many modern translations that are much more accurate. I'm not entirely sure why people act like the KJV is really the pinnacle of English Bible translations. The most accurate translation on the market right now is the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) so I would suggest using that one. I still have the CS Lewis Study Bible which is NRSV from when I was Protestant and I still use it every once in a while. However, I would generally avoid most 'study' Bibles since many of the interpretations and notes about the Scriptures could be doctrinally unsound or given from a biased theological opinion--usually that of the publisher, and most Bible publishers are American Protestants. Be cautious with the notes. Another thing to be wary of is that many modern translations of the Bible and commentaries tend to try to 'censor' things in the Scriptures to make it more appealing to the mainstream crowd in today's times. For example, replacing the word 'slave' with servant or passages relating directly to men as 'people' to imply both genders etc. But if you are still looking for a study Bible, I would recommend the CS Lewis NRSV Study Bible; since the translation is the most accurate on the market and at least CS Lewis is a generally good theologian that is not too heretical.
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« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2012, 11:40:37 PM »

Any passages I should spot check for heresy?
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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2012, 11:58:34 PM »

Any passages I should spot check for heresy?

All of them. In other words, never let your guard down with any Bible translation. Always be vigilant in case there is ever a passage that comes up with a translation or interpretation that is heretical.
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« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2012, 12:29:08 AM »

Any passages I should spot check for heresy?

All of them. In other words, never let your guard down with any Bible translation. Always be vigilant in case there is ever a passage that comes up with a translation or interpretation that is heretical.

I wasn't aware that you could read Greek.
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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2012, 12:35:39 AM »

Truly, without irony or "crypticality", The Message has to be the most thoroughly entertaining and enlightening of all the translations out there, if you have just a bit of Biblical literacy.

I defy you to read it and find a verse (won't take long) that sounds insane and laughable. Either it will be just that or that and blow your mind with its interpretive strength.
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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2012, 12:46:50 AM »

Truly, without irony or "crypticality", The Message has to be the most thoroughly entertaining and enlightening of all the translations out there, if you have just a bit of Biblical literacy.

I defy you to read it and find a verse (won't take long) that sounds insane and laughable. Either it will be just that or that and blow your mind with its interpretive strength.

Ahh, The Message. Truly, it is a translation that has kept in mind the old adage that the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life.
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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2012, 12:48:10 AM »

Any passages I should spot check for heresy?

All of them. In other words, never let your guard down with any Bible translation. Always be vigilant in case there is ever a passage that comes up with a translation or interpretation that is heretical.

I wasn't aware that you could read Greek.

I can't although I actually tried to learn once.
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« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2012, 12:57:06 AM »

Truly, without irony or "crypticality", The Message has to be the most thoroughly entertaining and enlightening of all the translations out there, if you have just a bit of Biblical literacy.

I defy you to read it and find a verse (won't take long) that sounds insane and laughable. Either it will be just that or that and blow your mind with its interpretive strength.

Ahh, The Message. Truly, it is a translation that has kept in mind the old adage that the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life.

Or as our great philologist would say:

Quote
1-3Does it sound like we're patting ourselves on the back, insisting on our credentials, asserting our authority? Well, we're not. Neither do we need letters of endorsement, either to you or from you. You yourselves are all the endorsement we need. Your very lives are a letter that anyone can read by just looking at you. Christ himself wrote it—not with ink, but with God's living Spirit; not chiseled into stone, but carved into human lives—and we publish it.

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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2012, 01:33:32 AM »

I recommend you read Ecclesiastes as rendered by The Message.
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2012, 01:00:50 PM »

Any passages I should spot check for heresy?

All of them. In other words, never let your guard down with any Bible translation. Always be vigilant in case there is ever a passage that comes up with a translation or interpretation that is heretical.

I wasn't aware that you could read Greek.

I can't although I actually tried to learn once.

It’s not easy to teach oneself. The fundamentals aren’t actually that hard, but there are enough exceptions to the rules that all but the brightest need an experienced translator to guide them.

There’s a story they told in my Greek class about an English shepherd boy who taught himself biblical Greek. One day he went skipping into town and quoting from the text, and the townspeople wanted to burn him as a witch because they believed it impossible to teach oneself Greek without the aid of the devil.

A couple of other points:

-The KJV (or as the non-barbarians call it, the Authorized Version) gets a lot of traction in some Orthodox circles because it used Byzantine manuscripts as its NT base text.

-Some might quibble about the NRSV being the most accurate translation. It is certainly not the most literal, though a literal rendering does not always make the best translation...But translation philosophies and the discussion of them are generally over-discussed.

-If you are going to buy a Bible, get one that you will actually read, not one that someone on the Internet thinks you should. Instead of worrying about potential heresy in a Bible (here I make a big dramatic eyeroll), if you come across a passage that you think is at odds with your Orthodox faith, ask someone, you know WWMSFD?

I say all of this not as an authority but as a layman who can read biblical Greek passably well for sentences at a time and then stare at a page absolutely baffled at what I am reading.
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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2012, 01:17:12 PM »

The Message FTW in all of its incredible insight and modern application! Remember to pray this way!

Quote
9-13 With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this:
Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what's best— as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You're in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You're ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Eat that Zondervan

PP
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« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2012, 01:59:24 PM »

I have got to see if they have the Message in my library.  Wink
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« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2012, 02:35:13 PM »

I have got to see if they have the Message in my library.  Wink
laugh laugh laugh
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« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2012, 07:40:26 PM »

The Message FTW in all of its incredible insight and modern application! Remember to pray this way!

Quote
9-13 With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this:
Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what's best— as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You're in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You're ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Eat that Zondervan

PP

Lawl at "ton arton imon ton epiousion" being translated as "three square meals".

Love it.
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« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2012, 08:13:46 PM »

The Message is available at Bible Gateway.
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« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2012, 11:09:51 PM »

Taking a look a the footnote for John 6:53-58, I find this:

Jesus' absolute statement that "except he eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, he have no life in you" (v.53) precludes a direct reference to the Lord's Supper.  He clearly does not teach that receiving that sacrament is the one requirement for eternal life or that it is the only ordinance through which Christ and His saving benefits are received.  In this very discourse He emphasizes faith in response to testimony (see vv.35,40,47,51).  Flesh and blood here point to Christ as the crucified One and the source of life.  Jesus speaks of faith's appropriation of Himself as God's appointed sacrifice, not - at least not directly - of any ritual requirement.

Seems orthodox enough for me.  I mean they do use a capital H for 'Him'.
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« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2012, 03:32:06 AM »

I like the Authorized Version for a few reasons, perhaps none of them great reasons.  Force of habit.  The influence of the translation on the development of the English language.  Personal aesthetics. 

That being said, I'd be willing to guess that few of the people who read and swear by the KJV truly understand the grammatical nuances and vocabulary differences of the English in it.  When I do run across another American in these parts they are usually either a missionary or a sex tourist or both.  I'm always shocked that of all the missionaries I've met who talk about the greatness of the KJV, they don't really seem to understand it.  Basic questions such as what "thou" and "whither" mean leave them stumped.

If you insist on using the KJV, you really need to have access to a good dictionary (I'm thinking OED here) and a good grasp of the historical development of English grammar.  Otherwise just read a translation into modern English.   
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« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2012, 08:28:03 AM »

If you insist on using the KJV, you really need to have access to a good dictionary (I'm thinking OED here) and a good grasp of the historical development of English grammar.  Otherwise just read a translation into modern English.   

Doesn't anybody read Shakespeare anymore?  Shocked

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« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2012, 08:33:10 AM »

If you insist on using the KJV, you really need to have access to a good dictionary (I'm thinking OED here) and a good grasp of the historical development of English grammar.  Otherwise just read a translation into modern English.   

Doesn't anybody read Shakespeare Bacon anymore?  Shocked


Fixed that for ya  laugh laugh

PP
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« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2012, 08:34:46 AM »

Some of you guys are hoisting yourselves on your own petard.
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« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2012, 08:37:48 AM »

Some of you guys are hoisting yourselves on your own petard.
Petard? You called me a petard?

I prefer the term, little person, or maybe height challenged....

PP
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« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2012, 08:45:13 AM »

The Message FTW in all of its incredible insight and modern application! Remember to pray this way!

Quote
9-13 With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this:
Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what's best— as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You're in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You're ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Eat that Zondervan

PP

** shudders**  Lord have mercy!
 I don't want to think about whatelse they have done to the rest of the scriptures.
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« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2012, 09:04:56 AM »

Some of you guys are hoisting yourselves on your own petard.

Silence, ye ale-soused applejohn!
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« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2012, 03:17:55 PM »

The Message FTW in all of its incredible insight and modern application! Remember to pray this way!

Quote
9-13 With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this:
Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what's best— as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You're in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You're ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Eat that Zondervan

PP

** shudders**  Lord have mercy!
 I don't want to think about whatelse they have done to the rest of the scriptures.

Portions of The Message are actually quite good; though they certainly butchered the Lord's Prayer.
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« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2012, 08:01:01 PM »

Still giggling at "keep us alive".

Makes "for peace from above and the salvation of our souls" seem trite by comparison.
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« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2012, 08:10:31 PM »

** shudders**  Lord have mercy!
 I don't want to think about whatelse they have done to the rest of the scriptures.

I took a look around, and this is my favorite:

"How well God must like you--you don't hang out at Sin Saloon, you don't slink along Dead-End Road, you don't go to Smart-Mouth College." - Ps. 1:1

I haven't laughed so hard in I don't know how long. Seriously.  Grin

 
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« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2012, 09:24:17 PM »

** shudders**  Lord have mercy!
 I don't want to think about whatelse they have done to the rest of the scriptures.

I took a look around, and this is my favorite:

"How well God must like you--you don't hang out at Sin Saloon, you don't slink along Dead-End Road, you don't go to Smart-Mouth College." - Ps. 1:1

I haven't laughed so hard in I don't know how long. Seriously.  Grin

 

I hoped you were kidding. You weren't kidding. Sad
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« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2012, 09:34:54 PM »



"How well God must like you--you don't hang out at Sin Saloon, you don't slink along Dead-End Road, you don't go to Smart-Mouth College." - Ps. 1:1

I haven't laughed so hard in I don't know how long. Seriously.  Grin

 

It's even funnier when you imagine it being read by Sam Elliott.

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« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2012, 09:53:01 PM »

** shudders**  Lord have mercy!
 I don't want to think about whatelse they have done to the rest of the scriptures.

I took a look around, and this is my favorite:

"How well God must like you--you don't hang out at Sin Saloon, you don't slink along Dead-End Road, you don't go to Smart-Mouth College." - Ps. 1:1

I haven't laughed so hard in I don't know how long. Seriously.  Grin

 


Oh My  LOL I have to say I thought you could not be for real so I clicked on the link, he actually says sin saloon, slink along dead end road, and smart mouth college !!! not to mention the 'how well God must like you' part. obviously one of us has gone to Smart- Mouth College, because instead of following the good old tradition of writting an independent commentary the Alma Mater of Smart -Mouth College decide to rewrite the Bible itself!

I went ahead and read some more and I could not stop from laughing either, I mean it reads like a satire. a satire about Zeus! certainly not the God of Abraham.
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« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2012, 10:04:22 PM »

Still giggling at "keep us alive".

Makes "for peace from above and the salvation of our souls" seem trite by comparison.

lol   'keep us alive' and  'with a three square meals' no less! I felt like this was some prayer to an earth godess or something of that sort.
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Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2012, 10:24:07 PM »

** shudders**  Lord have mercy!
 I don't want to think about whatelse they have done to the rest of the scriptures.

I took a look around, and this is my favorite:

"How well God must like you--you don't hang out at Sin Saloon, you don't slink along Dead-End Road, you don't go to Smart-Mouth College." - Ps. 1:1

I haven't laughed so hard in I don't know how long. Seriously.  Grin

 


Oh My  LOL I have to say I thought you could not be for real so I clicked on the link, he actually says sin saloon, slink along dead end road, and smart mouth college !!! not to mention the 'how well God must like you' part. obviously one of us has gone to Smart- Mouth College, because instead of following the good old tradition of writting an independent commentary the Alma Mater of Smart -Mouth College decide to rewrite the Bible itself!

I went ahead and read some more and I could not stop from laughing either, I mean it reads like a satire. a satire about Zeus! certainly not the God of Abraham.

It really isn't a rewriting, merely a very dynamic translation.
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« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2012, 10:29:09 PM »

The Message FTW in all of its incredible insight and modern application! Remember to pray this way!

Quote
9-13 With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this:
Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what's best— as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You're in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You're ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Eat that Zondervan

PP

** shudders**  Lord have mercy!
 I don't want to think about whatelse they have done to the rest of the scriptures.

Portions of The Message are actually quite good; though they certainly butchered the Lord's Prayer.

lol It might have a certain insight here and there, which is why I think, the guy could have done well if he had settled for a commentary instead.
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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2012, 10:37:42 PM »

** shudders**  Lord have mercy!
 I don't want to think about whatelse they have done to the rest of the scriptures.

I took a look around, and this is my favorite:

"How well God must like you--you don't hang out at Sin Saloon, you don't slink along Dead-End Road, you don't go to Smart-Mouth College." - Ps. 1:1

I haven't laughed so hard in I don't know how long. Seriously.  Grin

 


Oh My  LOL I have to say I thought you could not be for real so I clicked on the link, he actually says sin saloon, slink along dead end road, and smart mouth college !!! not to mention the 'how well God must like you' part. obviously one of us has gone to Smart- Mouth College, because instead of following the good old tradition of writting an independent commentary the Alma Mater of Smart -Mouth College decide to rewrite the Bible itself!

I went ahead and read some more and I could not stop from laughing either, I mean it reads like a satire. a satire about Zeus! certainly not the God of Abraham.

It really isn't a rewriting, merely a very dynamic translation.

yeah dynamic in a sense that it is altering meaning all over the place with the purpose of catering to the reader rather than the fidelity to the truth as is.   Wink Cool
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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2012, 10:44:17 PM »

** shudders**  Lord have mercy!
 I don't want to think about whatelse they have done to the rest of the scriptures.

I took a look around, and this is my favorite:

"How well God must like you--you don't hang out at Sin Saloon, you don't slink along Dead-End Road, you don't go to Smart-Mouth College." - Ps. 1:1

I haven't laughed so hard in I don't know how long. Seriously.  Grin

 


Oh My  LOL I have to say I thought you could not be for real so I clicked on the link, he actually says sin saloon, slink along dead end road, and smart mouth college !!! not to mention the 'how well God must like you' part. obviously one of us has gone to Smart- Mouth College, because instead of following the good old tradition of writting an independent commentary the Alma Mater of Smart -Mouth College decide to rewrite the Bible itself!

I went ahead and read some more and I could not stop from laughing either, I mean it reads like a satire. a satire about Zeus! certainly not the God of Abraham.

It really isn't a rewriting, merely a very dynamic translation.

yeah dynamic in a sense that it is altering meaning all over the place with the purpose of catering to the reader rather than the fidelity to the truth as is.   Wink Cool

Maybe by "dynamic" he means "stupid"?
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The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
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Job 19:25-27


« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2012, 10:54:17 PM »

** shudders**  Lord have mercy!
 I don't want to think about whatelse they have done to the rest of the scriptures.

I took a look around, and this is my favorite:

"How well God must like you--you don't hang out at Sin Saloon, you don't slink along Dead-End Road, you don't go to Smart-Mouth College." - Ps. 1:1

I haven't laughed so hard in I don't know how long. Seriously.  Grin

 


Oh My  LOL I have to say I thought you could not be for real so I clicked on the link, he actually says sin saloon, slink along dead end road, and smart mouth college !!! not to mention the 'how well God must like you' part. obviously one of us has gone to Smart- Mouth College, because instead of following the good old tradition of writting an independent commentary the Alma Mater of Smart -Mouth College decide to rewrite the Bible itself!

I went ahead and read some more and I could not stop from laughing either, I mean it reads like a satire. a satire about Zeus! certainly not the God of Abraham.

It really isn't a rewriting, merely a very dynamic translation.

yeah dynamic in a sense that it is altering meaning all over the place with the purpose of catering to the reader rather than the fidelity to the truth as is.   Wink Cool

Maybe by "dynamic" he means "stupid"?
a likely possibility. laugh
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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2012, 12:56:16 AM »

I don't know what you guys are talking about. This is the best Bible translation EVER.

Hallelujah! Praise God in his holy house of worship,
      praise him under the open skies;
   Praise him for his acts of power,
      praise him for his magnificent greatness;
   Praise with a blast on the trumpet,
      praise by strumming soft strings;
   Praise him with castanets and dance,
      praise him with banjo and flute;
   Praise him with cymbals and a big bass drum,
      praise him with fiddles and mandolin.
   Let every living, breathing creature praise God!
      Hallelujah!

What biblical praise probably sounds like. Shocked
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 12:56:56 AM by dzheremi » Logged

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« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2012, 02:36:53 AM »

Again on the brilliance of The Message, you heard it here first.

I beg everyone to get a copy who has a decent grasp of the Bible and the English language.

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« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2012, 03:11:38 AM »

Again on the brilliance of The Message, you heard it here first.

I beg everyone to get a copy who has a decent grasp of the Bible and the English language.


You've jumped the shark.
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« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2012, 03:49:19 AM »

Again on the brilliance of The Message, you heard it here first.

I beg everyone to get a copy who has a decent grasp of the Bible and the English language.


You've jumped the shark.

Then you are a few seasons too late on the call as I have been advocating this for a while. Hence all the love here for it.

Get a copy and read it. In no possible way can anyone with any knowledge of Scripture, English, and a sense of humor not find tons of laughable moments along with rather excellent rendering of the Bible into English.
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« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2012, 03:53:41 AM »

Again on the brilliance of The Message, you heard it here first.

I beg everyone to get a copy who has a decent grasp of the Bible and the English language.


You've jumped the shark.

Then you are a few seasons too late on the call as I have been advocating this for a while. Hence all the love here for it.

Get a copy and read it. In no possible way can anyone with any knowledge of Scripture, English, and a sense of humor not find tons of laughable moments along with rather excellent rendering of the Bible into English.
I just can't do it. Now a pasadi Bible I'm all for. The problem is this guy translated not even to parody the work but was actually serious. I'm all for that type of ironic humor but it's just cringe worthy bad.

Oh I might be going Herman on this.
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