Author Topic: I am terrible at "converting" people  (Read 2360 times)

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Offline Peter J

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Re: I am terrible at "converting" people
« Reply #45 on: June 07, 2012, 11:48:08 AM »
I never claimed to be open-minded

That's true. What you said is that it's an insult to say that your statements make Orthodox sound closed-minded.
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Offline Shiny

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Re: I am terrible at "converting" people
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2012, 11:21:36 AM »
I have a question, because it was brought up earlier, do you really need to be immersed in philosophy to convert someone? Is philosophy even needed when it comes to Christianity?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 11:29:44 AM by Achronos »
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Offline gonefishing

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Re: I am terrible at "converting" people
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2012, 11:34:59 AM »

Hi gonefishing. I don't want to tell y'all how to do your job, but quite frankly, when I hear Orthodox talk this way, it just makes you sound close-minded and myopic.

Quote
What you said is that it's an insult to say that your statements make Orthodox sound closed-minded

Okay, first I sound closed-minded and then I'm making Orthodox sound closed-minded?  Which is it?  I'm speaking for all of Orthodoxy now?  I've been to one Liturgy.  How did I get to wield that kind of power?

That first post is where you directed those statements to me, not my opinions or to anyone else.  That's what is known as an insult. Another said my opinions were 'nonsense.'  In another thread, I was called 'dumb.'   What are YOU making Orthodox sound like??

You're on my butt like a spider monkey.  Get off.  Stop insulting people and stop riding someone's butt when they disagree with you.  You're wrong.  Get over it.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 11:36:38 AM by gonefishing »

Offline Peter J

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Re: I am terrible at "converting" people
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2012, 12:45:10 PM »
Okay, first I sound closed-minded and then I'm making Orthodox sound closed-minded?  Which is it?

Well, I can't speak for anyone else; all I know is that what I said is that Orthodox sound close-minded and myopic when they make statement like those. As you can see:

Hi gonefishing. I don't want to tell y'all how to do your job, but quite frankly, when I hear Orthodox talk this way, it just makes you sound close-minded and myopic.

(Possibly I should have repeated the word "y'all" since "you" is prone to misunderstanding, since it could seem like I had switched from plural to singular.)

I'm speaking for all of Orthodoxy now?  I've been to one Liturgy.  How did I get to wield that kind of power?

That first post is where you directed those statements to me, not my opinions or to anyone else.  That's what is known as an insult. Another said my opinions were 'nonsense.'  In another thread, I was called 'dumb.'   What are YOU making Orthodox sound like??

You're on my butt like a spider monkey.  Get off.  Stop insulting people and stop riding someone's butt when they disagree with you.  You're wrong.  Get over it.

I really don't appreciate the way your talking to me. (Actually, I don't much care for your attitude toward non-Orthodox in general, but that seems unnecessary to say at this point.)
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: I am terrible at "converting" people
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2012, 12:49:08 PM »
only line an Orthodox evangelist needs to know: "come and see".

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: I am terrible at "converting" people
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2012, 12:53:34 PM »
only line an Orthodox evangelist needs to know: "come and see".

I wonder what they did when the Disciplina Arcani was still in force  :)

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: I am terrible at "converting" people
« Reply #51 on: June 08, 2012, 01:31:54 PM »
only line an Orthodox evangelist needs to know: "come and see".

That's both anti-biblical and anti-traditional. But hey, how else would Orthodoxy remain the "best kept secret"?  :police:

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: I am terrible at "converting" people
« Reply #52 on: June 08, 2012, 03:12:31 PM »
only line an Orthodox evangelist needs to know: "come and see".

I wonder what they did when the Disciplina Arcani was still in force  :)

come and not see (or come and see part of the time)? ;)

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: I am terrible at "converting" people
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2012, 03:15:09 PM »
only line an Orthodox evangelist needs to know: "come and see".

That's both anti-biblical and anti-traditional. But hey, how else would Orthodoxy remain the "best kept secret"?  :police:

As laypeople, we will most often end up misportraying the church or the faith if we do much else (as is often done on internet forums). Best for us just to get them there, and have them talk to the priest if they have questions/issues about the faith.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 03:15:44 PM by Ortho_cat »

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: I am terrible at "converting" people
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2012, 03:25:50 PM »
only line an Orthodox evangelist needs to know: "come and see".

That's both anti-biblical and anti-traditional. But hey, how else would Orthodoxy remain the "best kept secret"?  :police:

As laypeople, we will most often end up misportraying the church or the faith if we do much else (as is often done on internet forums). Best for us just to get them there, and have them talk to the priest if they have questions/issues about the faith.

I can't answer that without sounding like a prideful know-it-all, so... ok, nevermind  :D ;D

Offline dzheremi

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Re: I am terrible at "converting" people
« Reply #55 on: June 08, 2012, 03:54:33 PM »
I have a question, because it was brought up earlier, do you really need to be immersed in philosophy to convert someone? Is philosophy even needed when it comes to Christianity?

I don't think so. I was converted more-or-less by having been everywhere else first, so that when I found Orthodoxy myself (not without first having been exposed to EO'xy in person, so I knew that was out there and didn't fit me), I had the necessary background to be able to tell that it this was something truly different than everything else, even months (years?) before I was able to actually attend a liturgy. I wouldn't rely on this method across the board, though...some people probably do need to be intellectually convinced, though that doesn't mean that it's any particular person's job to do so. For most, I would assume that there might be a few specific issues that they would assurances on (e.g., icons, the Pope, etc.), but these probably don't need an in-depth philosophical treatise for each question. For instance, I had some questions about the particulars of confession in the Coptic Church (not problems with it, just things I wanted to know to make sure that I could get the most out of it), and so Father just took maybe 5 or 10 minutes before we began to describe how it's generally done. Bam. Lesson imparted and question answered. I've found everything similarly digestible thus far: You have a question? Oh, here's how we actually deal with that when it comes up. Then if you want to know more about it, you can bring in the philosophy and books and all that. No need to bury someone who is so new to the whole deal in a bunch of intellectual tomes or arguments if you can make the same point using language you don't need to study to understand. That can come later, when the person is more well-rooted in the faith.

Offline Peter J

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Re: I am terrible at "converting" people
« Reply #56 on: June 08, 2012, 06:30:48 PM »
only line an Orthodox evangelist needs to know: "come and see".

That's both anti-biblical and anti-traditional.

I think you're taking that "only ... " too literally.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline gonefishing

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Re: I am terrible at "converting" people
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2012, 12:17:47 AM »

I really don't appreciate the way your talking to me. (Actually, I don't much care for your attitude toward non-Orthodox in general, but that seems unnecessary to say at this point.)

I didn't appreciate at all the way you were talking to me.  Pretty sure that's what started this whole thing.   If you offend someone, they have every right to be offended and will pretty much say they're offended.  Don't insult people in the course of stating your opinions.  That'll fix it.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: I am terrible at "converting" people
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2012, 12:23:05 AM »
only line an Orthodox evangelist needs to know: "come and see".

That's both anti-biblical and anti-traditional.

I think you're taking that "only ... " too literally.


I know, I know... but someone has to stand up for the large, silent grey majority  8)

Offline HouseOfGod

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Re: I am terrible at "converting" people
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2012, 09:28:24 PM »
Here is a great video you can lead people to about the history of the Orthodox Church. The history is recorded in the book of Acts.
Also, the Eucharist is always a good point to make.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laHcgdE55Mo

Saying that I don't have a problem with most Protestants, don't push them too hard and turn them off. I'd just lead them to the history and let them figure it out. You should spend more time working on unbelievers.

1Cr 12:12 - For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.
1Cr 12:18 -   But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.  
Thanks so much for that link! That's a very nice video.  :)
Renewal during the first month of the new ecclesiastical calendar! :)