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Author Topic: Top 10 Saints?  (Read 5832 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: June 04, 2012, 03:04:41 AM »

In your opinion, who are the top ten greatest Saints in the Church NOT mentioned in the Scriptures? This is my list, in order from least to greatest.

#10) St. Constantine

#9) St. Nicholas

#8) St. John Chrysostom

#7) St. Maximus the Confessor

#6) St. Antony of Egypt

#5) St. Moses the Ethiopian

#4) St. Augustine of Hippo

#3) St. Athanasius

#2) St. Mary of Egypt

#1) St. Monica
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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2012, 03:13:49 AM »

James which Constantin is that? the Emperor?
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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2012, 03:18:32 AM »

James which Constantin is that? the Emperor?

Yes. Even though he did some bad things, I still think he deserves a spot on the list since he legalized Christianity and spread it across the empire; without him we might have died out. I still like St. Monica the best though because of her meekness and nurturing, motherly personality.
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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2012, 03:23:35 AM »

James which Constantin is that? the Emperor?

Yes. Even though he did some bad things, I still think he deserves a spot on the list since he legalized Christianity and spread it across the empire; without him we might have died out. I still like St. Monica the best though because of her meekness and nurturing, motherly personality.

I think your list is interesting, and the fact that St.Monica made the first is quite lovely and endearing IMO Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2012, 03:42:03 AM »

St. Gregory
St. John
St. George
St. Basil
St. Constantine
St. Peter
St. Mary
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« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2012, 03:46:36 AM »

Asteriktos, you have to number them and no biblical saint allowed Tongue and you got only as far as 7 lol
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Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2012, 03:51:28 AM »

1.   St. Anthony
2.   St. Cyril
3.   St. Athanasius
4.   St. Ephrem the Syrian
5.   St. Shenouda the Archimandrite
6.   St. Basil the Great
7.   St. John the Short
8.   St. Moses the Ethiopian
9.   St. Mattai
10. Amma Syncletica

All the numbers after 4 are pretty much only there so that I could remember to stop when I got to 10.
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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2012, 03:51:42 AM »

Asteriktos, you have to number them and no biblical saint allowed Tongue and you got only as far as 7 lol

I'm sorry Hiwot, but I did include 10, I just didn't mention which of the several St. Gregorys, St. Johns and St. Marys I meant, and none of them were biblical saints. You have to guess which saints I meant to be indicating, though. First person to guess all ten correctly gets a frozen pizza mailed to their house straight from the local Walmart! And... go! Cool
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« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2012, 03:54:25 AM »

Pizza during the Apostles' fast? You devil! police

(Okay, fine...I'm just saying that because I know I won't win. Cry)
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« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2012, 04:01:17 AM »

Asteriktos, you have to number them and no biblical saint allowed Tongue and you got only as far as 7 lol

I'm sorry Hiwot, but I did include 10, I just didn't mention which of the several St. Gregorys, St. Johns and St. Marys I meant, and none of them were biblical saints. You have to guess which saints I meant to be indicating, though. First person to guess all ten correctly gets a frozen pizza mailed to their house straight from the local Walmart! And... go! Cool

Ah! hehehe ok, the first of the Gregorys should be the Theologian well I like him best, then of Nissa, St. John ofc the Goldenmouth whoelse goes before St. John of shanghai hmm? then St. Mary of Egypt. and St. Mary of Magdalene I don't know in what order though. lol how did I do?

Edit, dang it! St mary of magdalene is biblical! there I lost lol

Edit: wait wait let me think ... Smiley


Nope I got nothing! Sad 
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« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2012, 04:21:36 AM »

While I don't like the premise of ranking Saints, I'll just list ten of my personal favorites in no particular order:

1. St. Gebre Menfes Kidus (my patron saint)
2. St. Anthony the Great
3. St. Athanasius
4. St. Moses the Ethiopian
5. St. Mary of Egypt
6. St. Tekle Haimanot
7. St. Augustine (heck, if H.H. Pope Shenouda calls him a Saint, that's good enough for me.  Wink )
8. St. Basil the Great
9. St. Cyril
10. St. John Chrysostom



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« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2012, 04:22:02 AM »

1. St. Athanasius the great,
2.St. Abba Anthony the great
3.St. Gregory the Theologian
4.St.John Chrysostom
5.St. Basil the Great
6.St. Cyrill of Alexandria
7.St. Ephraim the Syrian
8.St. Mary of Egypt
9.St. Isaac the Syrian
10.St. Mosses the Ethiopian
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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2012, 04:26:31 AM »


All the numbers after 4 are pretty much only there so that I could remember to stop when I got to 10.


hahaha, I could have added quite a few more lol
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Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2012, 04:51:50 AM »

1. St. Athanasius the great,
2.St. Abba Anthony the great
3.St. Gregory the Theologian
4.St.John Chrysostom
5.St. Basil the Great
6.St. Cyrill of Alexandria
7.St. Ephraim the Syrian
8.St. Mary of Egypt
9.St. Isaac the Syrian
10.St. Mosses the Ethiopian


St. Isaac the Syrian is definitely one of my favorites (and I love all the others on your list also.)


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« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2012, 04:54:00 AM »

I love yours as well Gebre Smiley
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Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2012, 05:09:24 AM »

I also love all of both of yours, but on the other hand, is anyone really going to not love a saint? Wink
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« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2012, 05:13:28 AM »

...is anyone really going to not love a saint? Wink

Hehe...I have my moments with St. Basil when I have to stand attentively for an even longer time while participating in his extended, extremely long Liturgy. Apparently St. Basil must have had some pretty comfortable shoes if he developed a liturgy that long...
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« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2012, 05:23:29 AM »

Hmm? Is St. Basil's liturgy extremely long in comparison to St. John Chrysostom's? Your comment confuses me because of course St. Basil's liturgy is a shortening of the original Alexandrian rite given to us by St. Mark...and I don't think anyone in those days had comfortable shoes! (We take our shoes off anyway, so that's neither here nor there.)
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« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2012, 05:28:37 AM »

Hmm? Is St. Basil's liturgy extremely long in comparison to St. John Chrysostom's?

Maybe not 'extremely' long, but it is significantly longer than the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom by about one hour.
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« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2012, 05:36:50 AM »

No particular order,

St Gregory of Nyassa
St John Chrysostom
St Moses the Ethiopian
Sts Cyril & Methodius
St Cyprian of Carthage
St Lawrence of Rome
St Nicholas of Myra
St Patrick
St Basil the Great
St Macrina the Younger

Many years,

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« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2012, 05:55:28 AM »

St John Golden Mouth
St Anthony the Great
St Gregory the theologian
St. John of the Ladder.
Blessed Augustine
Cyrill of Alexandria
.St. Athanasius
St. Swithun
St. Constantine
Origen

Origen will be among the first ones for me.. He is the one who turned my heart back to the Church Fathers and Traditional Christianity after i rediscovered Christianity a few years ago.. I also like philosophical saints and scholar ones, UK , Irish, etc ones, sicilian ones, etc.. And i would put others on my list but i don`t remmeber them and this is a quick one on the run.
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« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2012, 06:02:33 AM »

hey Azul, Origen has a very special place in my heart too.
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Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2012, 06:05:12 AM »

St. Gregory
St. John
St. George
St. Basil
St. Constantine
St. Peter
St. Mary


I knew your play, FWIW.

And they say I am cryptic.
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« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2012, 06:06:51 AM »

hey Azul, Origen has a very special place in my heart too.

I can't imagine making such a list.

But I did think about just listing Origen.

Or Plato.
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« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2012, 06:10:50 AM »

hey Azul, Origen has a very special place in my heart too.

I can't imagine making such a list.

But I did think about just listing Origen.

Or Plato.

Great Ones to grace this world indeed!
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Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2012, 12:12:22 PM »

How did only one person put St. Isaac in their list?  St. Isaac of Nineveh is the only saint you ever need.
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« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2012, 01:50:34 PM »

In your opinion, who are the top ten greatest Saints in the Church NOT mentioned in the Scriptures? This is my list, in order from least to greatest.

#10) St. Constantine

#9) St. Nicholas

#8) St. John Chrysostom

#7) St. Maximus the Confessor

#6) St. Antony of Egypt

#5) St. Moses the Ethiopian

#4) St. Augustine of Hippo

#3) St. Athanasius

#2) St. Mary of Egypt

#1) St. Monica
This is an interesting question, and of course, there are other saints who also deserve to be in the top ten.  I don't have any problem with your list; however, an Orthodox priest (Antioch) told me that Augustine was Blessed, but not a saint. I don't remember exactly, but I think that the objections to his sainthood were based in part on the overly rationalistic tone of parts of his theology, together with his filioque belief.
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« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2012, 01:58:26 PM »

In your opinion, who are the top ten greatest Saints in the Church NOT mentioned in the Scriptures? This is my list, in order from least to greatest.

#10) St. Constantine

#9) St. Nicholas

#8) St. John Chrysostom

#7) St. Maximus the Confessor

#6) St. Antony of Egypt

#5) St. Moses the Ethiopian

#4) St. Augustine of Hippo

#3) St. Athanasius

#2) St. Mary of Egypt

#1) St. Monica
This is an interesting question, and of course, there are other saints who also deserve to be in the top ten.  I don't have any problem with your list; however, an Orthodox priest (Antioch) told me that Augustine was Blessed, but not a saint. I don't remember exactly, but I think that the objections to his sainthood were based in part on the overly rationalistic tone of parts of his theology, together with his filioque belief.

Come on everyone, you know it had it to happen. We really have to start having over/unders on this sorta stuff. PM me if you want to get in on the action in the future.
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« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2012, 01:58:54 PM »

St. Augustine is a Saint no matter what he wrote and what others think about him.
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« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2012, 02:15:15 PM »

10. Pope St. Leo the Great
9. St. Vladimir of Kiev
8. St. Ambrose of Milan
7. St. Agnes
6. St. Anthony the Great
5. St. Patrick, Apostle to the Irish
4. St. Maximus the Confessor
3. St. Athanasius the Great
2. St. John Chrysostom
1. St. Nicholas of Myra
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« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2012, 02:19:15 PM »

St. Augustine is a Saint no matter what he wrote and what others think about him.
According to Christos Yannaras, Augustine is "the fount of every distortion and alteration in the Church's truth in the West" (The Freedom of Morality, p. 151n.).
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« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2012, 02:23:19 PM »

In your opinion, who are the top ten greatest Saints in the Church NOT mentioned in the Scriptures? This is my list, in order from least to greatest.

#10) St. Constantine

#9) St. Nicholas

#8) St. John Chrysostom

#7) St. Maximus the Confessor

#6) St. Antony of Egypt

#5) St. Moses the Ethiopian

#4) St. Augustine of Hippo

#3) St. Athanasius

#2) St. Mary of Egypt

#1) St. Monica
This is an interesting question, and of course, there are other saints who also deserve to be in the top ten.  I don't have any problem with your list; however, an Orthodox priest (Antioch) told me that Augustine was Blessed, but not a saint. I don't remember exactly, but I think that the objections to his sainthood were based in part on the overly rationalistic tone of parts of his theology, together with his filioque belief.

Come on everyone, you know it had it to happen. We really have to start having over/unders on this sorta stuff. PM me if you want to get in on the action in the future.

I assume there's some way to also factor in whether the objection will come from an Orthodox or a Roman Catholic? (That part actually surprised me this time around).
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« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2012, 02:39:08 PM »

St. Augustine is a Saint no matter what he wrote and what others think about him.

who died and made u a pope ?  police
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« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2012, 02:40:09 PM »

I also don't like ranking saints, but here are some of my favorite non-biblical saints.

St. Basil the Fool has to be one of my favorites.  In fact, I love all the holy trolls.  Their method appeals to me because I can simultaneously laugh at their antics and be touched by what they are trying to get across.

St. Nicholas is one of my favorites.  He was truly a man full of love, angelic in actions, though even he when confronted by the vile filth of Arius has no choice but to give him a licking.

St. John of Shanghai is my family patron and I have kept an Icon of St. George for many years.

I like St. Alexander of the Neva and St. Mercurius.  They are role models for us and keep a little bit of that Old Testament goodness alive.

St. Pachomius and St. Anthony of the desert I always love to read together.  Great men.

I have been reading the commentary on the Gospel of John by Theophylact.  I have always heard him referred to as "the Blessed" rather than "St." but wikipedia says that the Serbian and Russian churches consider him a saint.  That's good enough for me.  I cannot help but love his writing because nto only is he full of fervor for Orthodoxy and an enemy of heresy, but he is also the master of dissing heretics.  (Concerning Appolinarians [sp?]: "May you and your followers perish.")

St. Tsar Nicholas II.  The jury is out as to whether he was a good political ruler, but he died for the faith, and that is enough for me.
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« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2012, 02:43:01 PM »

an Orthodox priest (Antioch) told me that Augustine was Blessed, but not a saint

That priest is out of his mind. Someone call the Metropolitan!

"Blessed" is an epithet (cf. Blessed Xenia, Blessed Theophylact) like "Venerable", "Righteous", etc. We don't have specific titles for not-quite-saints who are at various stages in the canonization process.

But seriously...

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« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2012, 02:43:36 PM »

Quote
I assume there's some way to also factor in whether the objection will come from an Orthodox or a Roman Catholic? (That part actually surprised me this time around).

Yeah, really...I thought the RC was all about St. Augustine. I know he is recognized as a saint in the Coptic Orthodox Church, and the Antiochian priest I've listened to talk about him (Fr. Andrew Damick, on his AFR podcast) has stated unequivocally that Augustine is also a saint in the EO tradition. So I think your Antiochian priest friend is just wrong, Stanley. Also, St. Augustine being "the fount of every distortion and alteration in the Church's truth in the West" in some person's opinion does not actually preclude him from being a saint in the East/Orient, as we did not adopt the distortions and alterations of the Western church in the first place. Wink
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« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2012, 02:52:05 PM »

an Orthodox priest (Antioch) told me that Augustine was Blessed, but not a saint


But seriously...



That's a favorite past time around here.  I've even heard whisperings of making it an Olympic event  Grin.
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« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2012, 02:59:24 PM »

While Origen certainly is an important theologian, I am not aware of any Church that formally considers him to be a saint.

As for St. Augustine, some of his theology is extremely controversial, but (and that's probably the only point where I agree with Fr. Seraphim Rose) that does not disqualify him from personal holiness and from being a model in piety.
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« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2012, 02:59:44 PM »

A picture of Christos Yannaras:



A picture of Augustine:



For some reason the latter seems more trustworthy.
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« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2012, 02:59:57 PM »

someone should throw St. Theophan in their list. Just sayin...
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« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2012, 03:00:06 PM »

an Orthodox priest (Antioch) told me that Augustine was Blessed, but not a saint

That priest is out of his mind.
His objection was based in part on St. Augustine's teaching on the filioque.
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« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2012, 03:02:09 PM »

an Orthodox priest (Antioch) told me that Augustine was Blessed, but not a saint

That priest is out of his mind.
His objection was based in part on St. Augustine's teaching on the filioque.

You are a Roman Catholic. Why does it bother you that we revere one of the most imporant Saints of your own tradition? Shouldn't you rather be happy that we have something in common?
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« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2012, 03:18:18 PM »

10. St. Pantaleimon
9. St. Dymphna
8. St. Raphael of Brooklyn
7. St. Brendan
6. St. George
5. St. David of Wales
4. St. Leo
3. St. Lucia
2. St. Catherine of Alexandria
1. St. Patrick


By the way, this is a lovely page on saints from the British Isles. Enjoy!  angel
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« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2012, 03:19:22 PM »

I find it disturbing that no one has mentioned St. Germanus I of Constantinople yet.
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« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2012, 03:27:04 PM »

I find it disturbing that no one has mentioned St. Germanus I of Constantinople yet.

You just did.
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« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2012, 03:30:19 PM »

I find it disturbing that no one has mentioned St. Germanus I of Constantinople yet.

You just did.

Nah, I don't think he is all that great. His commentary on the Divine Liturgy was ok, if you go in for all that spiritualizing stuff, but other than that I don't know anything about him. I just find it disturbing that no one else called him one of the ten greatest. How is it possible?  Huh
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« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2012, 03:32:13 PM »

The Ecumenical Council said that St. Augustine is a Saint so anyone who objects his Sainthood is advocating heresy. Augustine did make some theological screw-ups, but all the Saints had their mistakes. For example, St. John Chrysostom was an anti-Semite who said he hates the Jews yet none of us object to his Sainthood. St. Augustine was a man who truly loved God, turned his life around but made some big theological mistakes.
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« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2012, 03:42:33 PM »

You are a Roman Catholic. Why does it bother you that we revere one of the most imporant Saints of your own tradition? Shouldn't you rather be happy that we have something in common?
But the RCC and the EOC do not have the filioque in common. And the filioque was taught by St. Augustine.
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« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2012, 03:44:21 PM »

You are a Roman Catholic. Why does it bother you that we revere one of the most imporant Saints of your own tradition? Shouldn't you rather be happy that we have something in common?
But the RCC and the EOC do not have the filioque in common. And the filioque was taught by St. Augustine.

The Filioque is not necessarily the problem; we were entirely aware of it for centuries and still remained in communion with the west. The problem is that your Church declared it a dogma.
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« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2012, 03:50:55 PM »

You are a Roman Catholic. Why does it bother you that we revere one of the most imporant Saints of your own tradition? Shouldn't you rather be happy that we have something in common?
But the RCC and the EOC do not have the filioque in common. And the filioque was taught by St. Augustine.

Fwiw, St. Photius perhaps summed up the approach many Orthodox take regarding this kind of thing:

"Even so, if any among [the Church Fathers] has fallen into something unseemly--for they were all men and human, and no one composed of dust and ephemeral nature can avoid some trace of defilement--I would then imitate the sons of Noah and cover my father's shame with silence and gratitude instead of a garment..." (Mystagogy of the Holy Spirit, 72)
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« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2012, 03:51:38 PM »

The Ecumenical Council said that St. Augustine is a Saint so anyone who objects his Sainthood is advocating heresy.

So you are declaring anathema on 'anti-augustinianism'? Seriously? You need to get a grip.

St. Augustine is a saint. But the Faith has never rested on either the theological correctness or the righteousness of any human individual. The Faith is Jesus Christ, and so long as people are correct about that, they can be completely wrong about every saint in heaven and still not be a heretic.
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« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2012, 03:52:04 PM »

You are a Roman Catholic. Why does it bother you that we revere one of the most imporant Saints of your own tradition? Shouldn't you rather be happy that we have something in common?
But the RCC and the EOC do not have the filioque in common. And the filioque was taught by St. Augustine.

Fwiw, St. Photius perhaps summed up the approach many Orthodox take regarding this kind of thing:

"Even so, if any among [the Church Fathers] has fallen into something unseemly--for they were all men and human, and no one composed of dust and ephemeral nature can avoid some trace of defilement--I would then imitate the sons of Noah and cover my father's shame with silence and gratitude instead of a garment..." (Mystagogy of the Holy Spirit, 72)

QFT
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« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2012, 03:54:17 PM »

I find it disturbing that no one has mentioned St. Germanus I of Constantinople yet.

You just did.

Nah, I don't think he is all that great. His commentary on the Divine Liturgy was ok, if you go in for all that spiritualizing stuff, but other than that I don't know anything about him. I just find it disturbing that no one else called him one of the ten greatest. How is it possible?  Huh

This place never ceases to amaze me  Roll Eyes Grin.  But then, nobody's mentioned St. Werburga, either.  Go figure.
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« Reply #53 on: June 04, 2012, 03:57:02 PM »

You are a Roman Catholic. Why does it bother you that we revere one of the most imporant Saints of your own tradition? Shouldn't you rather be happy that we have something in common?
But the RCC and the EOC do not have the filioque in common. And the filioque was taught by St. Augustine.

So you ARE bothered by the fact that we agree with you on something. What would you rather have us to do? Ask forgiveness from the pope for revering a Catholic Saint?
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« Reply #54 on: June 04, 2012, 04:42:57 PM »

You are a Roman Catholic. Why does it bother you that we revere one of the most imporant Saints of your own tradition? Shouldn't you rather be happy that we have something in common?
But the RCC and the EOC do not have the filioque in common. And the filioque was taught by St. Augustine.

So you ARE bothered by the fact that we agree with you on something. What would you rather have us to do? Ask forgiveness from the pope for revering a Catholic Saint?
No. If you forgive a saint for his teaching on the filioque, why is it not possible to forgive a Catholic for the same?
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« Reply #55 on: June 04, 2012, 05:04:33 PM »

You are a Roman Catholic. Why does it bother you that we revere one of the most imporant Saints of your own tradition? Shouldn't you rather be happy that we have something in common?
But the RCC and the EOC do not have the filioque in common. And the filioque was taught by St. Augustine.

So you ARE bothered by the fact that we agree with you on something. What would you rather have us to do? Ask forgiveness from the pope for revering a Catholic Saint?
No. If you forgive a saint for his teaching on the filioque, why is it not possible to forgive a Catholic for the same?

I don't think 'forgive' is the right word, but in any case:
History and 20/20 hindsight. For some 6 centuries the East was willing to overlook the ambiguous/troubling aspects of the filioque as a personal opinion among Westerners. Then the West tried to force it on the East and split off into their own Church when the East refused. Then the West exacerbated the issue by officially declaring the filioque a dogma (rather than personal opinion) and then removing the ambiguity and defining (at Lyons and then Florence) the filioque in a distinctly heretical way.

It would be simply irresponsible of the Orthodox Church in the present day not to insist that Rome remove the 'rock of offense'.

There are saints from the 2nd and 3rd and 4th centuries who said negative things about the use of images. As long as that was their personal opinion and they didn't divide the church, that was understandable. But once the iconoclasts split the Church by trying to make their personal opinion into official doctrine of the Church, iconoclasm was clearly identified as a heresy and no orthodox Christian since can in good conscience hold it.
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« Reply #56 on: June 04, 2012, 07:16:29 PM »

You are a Roman Catholic. Why does it bother you that we revere one of the most imporant Saints of your own tradition? Shouldn't you rather be happy that we have something in common?
But the RCC and the EOC do not have the filioque in common. And the filioque was taught by St. Augustine.

The Filioque is not necessarily the problem; we were entirely aware of it for centuries and still remained in communion with the west. The problem is that your Church declared it a dogma.
If the filioque is not the problem, then does that mean that it is OK to hold the filioque as a theological opinion?
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« Reply #57 on: June 04, 2012, 07:23:31 PM »

Stanley123, can't you discuss your off-topic in a separate thread? Why do you behave so annoyingly?
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« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2012, 12:09:30 AM »

Stanley123, ... Why do you behave so annoyingly?
Because it seems anomalous that on the one hand a Saint is in a top ten list of all Orthodox Saints in the world, and yet on the other hand he teaches the filioque.
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« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2012, 12:17:23 AM »

St. Augustine is a Saint no matter what he wrote and what others think about him.

who died and made u a pope ?  police
He was canonized in one of the Ecumenical Councils.
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« Reply #60 on: June 05, 2012, 12:38:05 AM »

St. Augustine is a Saint no matter what he wrote and what others think about him.

who died and made u a pope ?  police
He was canonized in one of the Ecumenical Councils.

Michal was canonized?
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« Reply #61 on: June 05, 2012, 12:38:31 AM »

Stanley123, ... Why do you behave so annoyingly?
Because it seems anomalous that on the one hand a Saint is in a top ten list of all Orthodox Saints in the world, and yet on the other hand he teaches the filioque.

Many prominent saints held to positions which, at best, are discouraged today.
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« Reply #62 on: June 05, 2012, 12:47:44 AM »

St. John Chrysostom was an anti-Semite who said he hates the Jews yet none of us object to his Sainthood.

Sigh...
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« Reply #63 on: June 05, 2012, 01:29:53 AM »

Stanley123, ... Why do you behave so annoyingly?
Because it seems anomalous that on the one hand a Saint is in a top ten list of all Orthodox Saints in the world, and yet on the other hand he teaches the filioque.

He's 'top 10' on the personal list of a couple of individuals. Which is all this thread was supposed to be about --not what the ten most theologically important/reliable saints or what are the 10 most popular saints among all Orthodox in general (and in which case St. Augustine would probably not make either list).

There's already 2 other active threads actually intended to discuss the Orthodox attitude to the filioque--why not keep the discussion of St. Augustine's theology there instead of dragging this thread which was just supposed to be a personal sharing thread off-topic?
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« Reply #64 on: June 05, 2012, 02:30:26 AM »

The Ecumenical Council said that St. Augustine is a Saint so anyone who objects his Sainthood is advocating heresy.
No, because the status of one person does not directly concern the teachings of the Church.
I object to the sainthood of the last Russian tsar. Does that make me a heretic?
And btw, Christos Yannaras surely is a much better Orthodox theologian than St. Augustine.


all the Saints had their mistakes. For example, St. John Chrysostom was an anti-Semite who said he hates the Jews
That's not really true. He rather hated the Judaizers, ie Christians who mixed their faith with Jewish elements.
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« Reply #65 on: June 05, 2012, 02:57:35 AM »

all the Saints had their mistakes. For example, St. John Chrysostom was an anti-Semite who said he hates the Jews
That's not really true. He rather hated the Judaizers, ie Christians who mixed their faith with Jewish elements.

Along with the Jews who were actively persecuting Christians at the time.  Just a reckless statement that should've been caught by some sort of brain filter.
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« Reply #66 on: June 05, 2012, 05:05:21 AM »

The Ecumenical Council said that St. Augustine is a Saint so anyone who objects his Sainthood is advocating heresy.
No, because the status of one person does not directly concern the teachings of the Church.
I object to the sainthood of the last Russian tsar. Does that make me a heretic?
And btw, Christos Yannaras surely is a much better Orthodox theologian than St. Augustine.


all the Saints had their mistakes. For example, St. John Chrysostom was an anti-Semite who said he hates the Jews
That's not really true. He rather hated the Judaizers, ie Christians who mixed their faith with Jewish elements.


Many Christians did at this time, no ? Barnabas for instance.
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« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2012, 11:41:30 AM »

I'll just post the ones that are dear to me.

1. St. John of Kronstadt (my patron)
2. St. Herman of Alaska
3. St. Feofil of the Kiev Caves, Fool for Christ
4. St. George the Great Martyr
5. St. Papa Nicholas Planas
6. St. Nekatrios of Aegina
7. St. Theophan the Recluse
8. St. Silouan the Athonite
9. St. Basil the Great
10. St. Xenia of Petersburg

And
11. St. Nicholas of Myra
12. St. John Maximovitch
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« Reply #68 on: June 05, 2012, 12:38:19 PM »

Along with the Jews who were actively persecuting Christians at the time. 

Jews persecuting Christians after the Theodosius' Edict? Something does not match.

Many Christians did at this time, no ? Barnabas for instance.

That time? After 300 years?

My list (in no particular order):

1. St. Gregory Peradze
2. St. Basil Martysz (more generally the Synaxis of the Saints of the Chełm Land and Podlachia)
3. St. John Maximovitch
4. St. Gorazd Pavlik
5. St. Athanasius of Brest.
6. St. Euphrosyne of Polotsk
7. St. Cyrill of Turov
8. St. Gabriel of Zabłudów
9. St. Cyprian of Carthage
10. St. Theodore Tyron
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« Reply #69 on: June 05, 2012, 01:38:41 PM »

Along with the Jews who were actively persecuting Christians at the time. 

Jews persecuting Christians after the Theodosius' Edict? Something does not match.

My understanding was that Jews were still quite powerful in Antioch during the earlier portion of St. John's Christian life.  Perhaps the active persecutions and meddling stopped or lessened after Theodosius' Edict, but that doesn't mean the Jews ceased to be influential or an adversarial force. 

The reason I commented was that St. John has some comments that appear not to be directed to Judaizers, but to Jews themselves. There is a difference between referring to Jews in a religious or ethnic context, and JamesR implied it was the latter.

I'll admit that much of my knowledge about this topic comes from a Search the Scriptures podcast called "Was St. John Chrysostom an Anti-Semite?".  If one can make it through the disclaimers and "man of his time" comments, it gets going pretty good.

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« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2012, 01:56:56 PM »

In your opinion, who are the top ten greatest Saints in the Church NOT mentioned in the Scriptures? This is my list, in order from least to greatest.

#10) St. Constantine

#9) St. Nicholas

#8) St. John Chrysostom

#7) St. Maximus the Confessor

#6) St. Antony of Egypt

#5) St. Moses the Ethiopian

#4) St. Augustine of Hippo

#3) St. Athanasius

#2) St. Mary of Egypt

#1) St. Monica
This is an interesting question, and of course, there are other saints who also deserve to be in the top ten.  I don't have any problem with your list; however, an Orthodox priest (Antioch) told me that Augustine was Blessed, but not a saint. I don't remember exactly, but I think that the objections to his sainthood were based in part on the overly rationalistic tone of parts of his theology, together with his filioque belief.

Come on everyone, you know it had it to happen. We really have to start having over/unders on this sorta stuff. PM me if you want to get in on the action in the future.

I assume there's some way to also factor in whether the objection will come from an Orthodox or a Roman Catholic? (That part actually surprised me this time around).

Absolutely, wherever there is money to be had.
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« Reply #71 on: June 05, 2012, 02:00:06 PM »

$10 dollars to the member's charity of choice if they can name the Saint I've been holding back on.

No member of Schnuck's is allowed to compete, although they can feel free to comment on other's guesses. But don't give any hints which will make it too obvious.
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« Reply #72 on: June 05, 2012, 02:26:10 PM »

$10 dollars to the member's charity of choice if they can name the Saint I've been holding back on.

No member of Schnuck's is allowed to compete, although they can feel free to comment on other's guesses. But don't give any hints which will make it too obvious.

Other than St. Orthonorm of Galicia?  Perhaps St. Simeon the Stylite.  That's my guess.
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« Reply #73 on: June 05, 2012, 02:26:46 PM »

I object to the sainthood of the last Russian tsar. Does that make me a heretic?

And btw, Christos Yannaras surely is a much better Orthodox theologian than St. Augustine.

Anyone who has died and now dwells in heaven is a saint. If you are a better judge of these men's status in the Kingdom of God than the Catholic Church, call your bishop and inform him of the Church's mistake.

You can object to their formal designation in your heart, I suppose. That would not be heretical, per se, in my opinion, but it would be prideful. In any case, don't teach others to do likewise.
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« Reply #74 on: June 05, 2012, 02:40:42 PM »

$10 dollars to the member's charity of choice if they can name the Saint I've been holding back on.

No member of Schnuck's is allowed to compete, although they can feel free to comment on other's guesses. But don't give any hints which will make it too obvious.

Other than St. Orthonorm of Galicia?  Perhaps St. Simeon the Stylite.  That's my guess.

No obvious attention whoring here (other than turning this into a contest by yours truly).

A thoroughly "Western" Saint, if there ever was one.
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« Reply #75 on: June 05, 2012, 02:42:16 PM »

St. Herman of Alaska Wonderworker of All America (August 9)
St. Innocent Equal-to-the-Apostles and Enlightener of North America (March 31 and October 6)
St. Tikhon of Moscow Patriarch of Moscow and Apostle to America (April 7 and October 9)
St. John Chrysostom
St. Basil the Great
St. Gregory the Theologian
St. Mary of Egypt
St. Seraphim of Sarov
St. Ignatius of Antioch
St. Elizabeth the New Martyr
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« Reply #76 on: June 05, 2012, 02:56:59 PM »

What, no Russian Saints?

St. John of Kronstadt
St. Seraphim of Sarov
St. Tikon
St. Elizabeth (Grand Duchess)
and our own
St. Herman and
St. John Maximovitch
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« Reply #77 on: June 05, 2012, 03:32:01 PM »

Anyone who has died and now dwells in heaven is a saint.

My objection is related to the following definition of a saint: "Holy Tradition also ascribes Saint as a title to particular persons whose lives have shown most clearly what it means to follow Jesus Christ."
(source: http://orthodoxwiki.org/Saint)

Do the 1905 workers' massacres show what it means to follow Jesus Christ? I hope not.
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« Reply #78 on: June 05, 2012, 03:32:54 PM »

$10 dollars to the member's charity of choice if they can name the Saint I've been holding back on.

No member of Schnuck's is allowed to compete, although they can feel free to comment on other's guesses. But don't give any hints which will make it too obvious.

Other than St. Orthonorm of Galicia?  Perhaps St. Simeon the Stylite.  That's my guess.

No obvious attention whoring here (other than turning this into a contest by yours truly).

A thoroughly "Western" Saint, if there ever was one.

Anyone who has paid even moderate attention to your posts should be able to get the right name, based on this clue.
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« Reply #79 on: June 05, 2012, 03:43:35 PM »

Anyone who has died and now dwells in heaven is a saint.

My objection is related to the following definition of a saint: "Holy Tradition also ascribes Saint as a title to particular persons whose lives have shown most clearly what it means to follow Jesus Christ."
(source: http://orthodoxwiki.org/Saint)

Do the 1905 workers' massacres show what it means to follow Jesus Christ? I hope not.

Did the thief on the cross show what it means to follow Jesus Christ? Not until the last hour of his life. Did St. Paul, when he was murdering Christians? You can't take one snapshot from a person's life and define them by it. That basically rejects the redemption that our religion teaches.

No one ever claimed St. Tsar Nicholas was an icon of Christ in everything he did. Doesn't mean he's not a saint. The Romanovs are considered passionbearers, which means they bore their suffering in a Christlike manner. Certainly after their arrest they showed what it meant to follow Christ, and their martyric death sealed it.

Again, if you know better than the Church that he is among the saints, take it up with the proper authorities.
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« Reply #80 on: June 05, 2012, 04:56:02 PM »

Anyone who has died and now dwells in heaven is a saint.

My objection is related to the following definition of a saint: "Holy Tradition also ascribes Saint as a title to particular persons whose lives have shown most clearly what it means to follow Jesus Christ."
(source: http://orthodoxwiki.org/Saint)

Do the 1905 workers' massacres show what it means to follow Jesus Christ? I hope not.

Did the thief on the cross show what it means to follow Jesus Christ? Not until the last hour of his life. Did St. Paul, when he was murdering Christians? You can't take one snapshot from a person's life and define them by it. That basically rejects the redemption that our religion teaches.

No one ever claimed St. Tsar Nicholas was an icon of Christ in everything he did. Doesn't mean he's not a saint. The Romanovs are considered passionbearers, which means they bore their suffering in a Christlike manner. Certainly after their arrest they showed what it meant to follow Christ, and their martyric death sealed it.

Again, if you know better than the Church that he is among the saints, take it up with the proper authorities.

What did they do after their arrest that you are referring to?
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« Reply #81 on: June 05, 2012, 05:11:45 PM »

Anyone who has died and now dwells in heaven is a saint.

My objection is related to the following definition of a saint: "Holy Tradition also ascribes Saint as a title to particular persons whose lives have shown most clearly what it means to follow Jesus Christ."
(source: http://orthodoxwiki.org/Saint)

Do the 1905 workers' massacres show what it means to follow Jesus Christ? I hope not.

Did the thief on the cross show what it means to follow Jesus Christ? Not until the last hour of his life. Did St. Paul, when he was murdering Christians? You can't take one snapshot from a person's life and define them by it. That basically rejects the redemption that our religion teaches.

No one ever claimed St. Tsar Nicholas was an icon of Christ in everything he did. Doesn't mean he's not a saint. The Romanovs are considered passionbearers, which means they bore their suffering in a Christlike manner. Certainly after their arrest they showed what it meant to follow Christ, and their martyric death sealed it.

Again, if you know better than the Church that he is among the saints, take it up with the proper authorities.

No other act or decision of a local church is considered infallilble or unquestionable, so why would the synodal glorification of an individual as a saint be any different?
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« Reply #82 on: June 05, 2012, 05:32:22 PM »

Do we have any evidence of repentance in that issue? I surely hope he is in heaven, but I simply do not see how he is a model to be emulated for any of us...
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« Reply #83 on: June 05, 2012, 05:41:36 PM »

Not necessarily the 10 greatest, but 10 very dear to me:

St. John the Merciful of Alexandria
St. Cyril of Jerusalem
St. John Chrysostom
St. Basil the Great
St. Gregory the Theologian
St. Olav of Norway
St. Cyril of Alexandria
St. John of Damascus
St. Silouan the Athonite
St. Mary of Egypt
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« Reply #84 on: June 06, 2012, 12:05:28 AM »

but I simply do not see how he is a model to be emulated for any of us...

He was fairly family-oriented despite being an emperor and all. He might have been a cruel politician but I see him more as a patron of family.
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« Reply #85 on: June 06, 2012, 04:33:22 AM »

No other act or decision of a local church is considered infallilble or unquestionable, so why would the synodal glorification of an individual as a saint be any different?

It was accepted by other Churches.
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« Reply #86 on: June 06, 2012, 04:41:49 AM »

No other act or decision of a local church is considered infallilble or unquestionable, so why would the synodal glorification of an individual as a saint be any different?

It was accepted by other Churches.

Was it? Is there any formal statement of acceptance? I have not seen the last Russian tsar being venerated as a saint in non-Russian parishes.
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« Reply #87 on: June 06, 2012, 04:52:50 AM »

There was no formal denial.

It looks like he is venerated by the EP and AP:
http://www.antiochian.org/node/18899
http://www.ortodoksi.net/index.php/Nikolai_II
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« Reply #88 on: June 06, 2012, 05:13:07 AM »


While that is a Finnish Orthodox website he is not on our Church's calendar. Probably due to the all the politics involved. He is mostly seen as a traitor-Tsar who tried to russify Finland and take away the autonomy that Finland had within the Russian empire.
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« Reply #89 on: June 06, 2012, 06:04:28 AM »

The Finnish website only mentions the canonizations by ROCOR and MP. It does neither call him saint itself, nor mention any kind of veneration in the Finnish Church.

As for the American Antiochians, they are reproducing something they received from the OCA, I wonder if the PAtriarchate in Damascus is even aware of that. Probably, though, they have other problems at the moment..
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« Reply #90 on: June 06, 2012, 06:06:31 AM »

granted my definition of a 'saint" is probably different from most others here, but here are mine:

1.Abraham Joshua Heschel
2.Mary Travers
3. Andy Warhol
4. Mildred and Richard Loving
5.Estelle Griswold
6.Edith Eyde
7.Addie Mae Collins, Cynthia Wesley, Carole Robertson and Denise McNair
8.Harvey Bernard Milk
9. Susan B. Anthony
10. Cesar Chavez
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« Reply #91 on: June 06, 2012, 06:14:36 AM »

It does neither call him saint itself, nor mention any kind of veneration in the Finnish Church.

Correct. The reason is there isn't any.

Btw, do you understand Finnish language?
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« Reply #92 on: June 06, 2012, 08:55:33 AM »

No other act or decision of a local church is considered infallilble or unquestionable, so why would the synodal glorification of an individual as a saint be any different?

It was accepted by other Churches.

In what sense? Any synodal action that doesn't actually lead to a break in communion is technically 'accepted by other Churches', but that doesn't make it infallible or unquestionable. The Finnish Church's use of the Gregorian Paschalion is technically 'accepted' by the other Churches--it doesn't mean any of them actually agree with it.

(I, btw, am not arguing against anyone's sainthood including St. Nicholas the Passion-Bearer's. I'm just resistant to the notion that any action taken by a local synod, including glorifications, is above question)
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« Reply #93 on: June 06, 2012, 02:49:17 PM »

The Finnish website only mentions the canonizations by ROCOR and MP. It does neither call him saint itself, nor mention any kind of veneration in the Finnish Church.

If they did not consider him as a Saint why would they have listed him on the website of Orthodox Saints? I couldn't find i.e. Bp. Kuncewicz in there.
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« Reply #94 on: June 06, 2012, 03:44:07 PM »

1. Baba Shenouda III
2. Baba Shenouda III
3. Baba Shenouda III
4. Baba Shenouda III
I don't have a fifth favorite saint.
6. Baba Shenouda III
7. Baba Shenouda III
8. Baba Shenouda III
9. Baba Shenouda III
10. Baba Shenouda III
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« Reply #95 on: June 06, 2012, 03:45:14 PM »

Oh! I just thought of my 5th favorite: Baba Shenouda III  Grin


I don't why the OP limited us to only top 10; I could go on for 100.
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« Reply #96 on: June 06, 2012, 03:45:56 PM »

Oh! I just thought of my 5th favorite: Baba Shenouda III  Grin


I don't why the OP limited us to only top 10; I could go on for 100.

I like all the saints.  Smiley
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« Reply #97 on: June 06, 2012, 04:17:51 PM »

Oh! I just thought of my 5th favorite: Baba Shenouda III  Grin


I don't why the OP limited us to only top 10; I could go on for 100.

I like all the saints.  Smiley

I don't; in fact, I find some to be rather detestable.

If only all the saints were like St. Isaac.
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« Reply #98 on: June 06, 2012, 05:08:09 PM »

Oh! I just thought of my 5th favorite: Baba Shenouda III  Grin


I don't why the OP limited us to only top 10; I could go on for 100.

I like all the saints.  Smiley

I don't; in fact, I find some to be rather detestable.

If only all the saints were like St. Isaac.

Sometimes when the standards are set so high, it's hard to imagine walking in their footsteps. I like the variety of saints. And although the majority are nearly perfect, others aren't, but in the end they're all in the same place.

I think if we only look up to the gigantic heros, jealousy is all we'll end up with. Sometimes it's easier to relate to people more like us with similar circumstances.
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« Reply #99 on: June 06, 2012, 05:32:38 PM »

1. Baba Shenouda III
2. Baba Shenouda III
3. Baba Shenouda III
4. Baba Shenouda III
I don't have a fifth favorite saint.
6. Baba Shenouda III
7. Baba Shenouda III
8. Baba Shenouda III
9. Baba Shenouda III
10. Baba Shenouda III

Hehehe. TITL...is this appropriate? Nobody loves Baba Shenouda III more than me (that's right, and I'll fight for that title!), but is it okay to list them if they're not canonized yet? Because if that's so, I want to put HH in place of Mar Mattai. Smiley
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« Reply #100 on: June 06, 2012, 05:39:58 PM »

I think His Holiness will get there, sooner more than later.  angel
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« Reply #101 on: June 06, 2012, 05:57:34 PM »

The Finnish website only mentions the canonizations by ROCOR and MP. It does neither call him saint itself, nor mention any kind of veneration in the Finnish Church.

If they did not consider him as a Saint why would they have listed him on the website of Orthodox Saints?

That's not the official site of the Finnish church. Ortodoksi.net is made by individual Orthodox Christians and it doesn't have any official status. Of course there are Finnish EOs who consider tsar Nicholas II to be a Saint. I have an icon of him and his family. The fact is however that the Finnish church does not venerate him in any way. I wish she would but alas she doesn't.

The official site of the Finnish Orthodox Church can be found here.
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« Reply #102 on: June 06, 2012, 06:04:01 PM »

1. Baba Shenouda III
2. Baba Shenouda III
3. Baba Shenouda III
4. Baba Shenouda III
I don't have a fifth favorite saint.
6. Baba Shenouda III
7. Baba Shenouda III
8. Baba Shenouda III
9. Baba Shenouda III
10. Baba Shenouda III

Hehehe. TITL...is this appropriate? Nobody loves Baba Shenouda III more than me (that's right, and I'll fight for that title!), but is it okay to list them if they're not canonized yet? Because if that's so, I want to put HH in place of Mar Mattai. Smiley

I think he's definitely the exception to that rule. I'm not waiting 50 years to call him a saint Tongue

PS its so obvious that you love him just as much as I do. He's number 9 on your list (as a filler), and number ALL on my list.
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« Reply #103 on: June 06, 2012, 06:11:27 PM »

Ooo...low blow, my friend! Low blow. He's #9 on my list, but #1 on my baptismal certificate.* You can't edit that with a few clicks of a mouse, y'know. Tongue

* ok, fine, technically that's St. Shenouda the Archimandrite (nephew of St. Pigol and accompanier of St. Cyril to Ephesus), but I chose him after abouna asked me how much I love HH, so I think it still counts. Grin
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« Reply #104 on: June 06, 2012, 06:21:43 PM »

*I guess it all depends* on which one of us* HH loves more. *Whomever he hugs for* the longest time* when we get* to heaven* wins this game.*

*I made him a card*, so I'm* feeling pretty confident.*

*(I'm not going to mention {again} that you made him a filler on your list just to stop at #10, but didn't even add him until I posted. Your chances don't look so good, bud.)

How do these star things work?*********************
I'm not good at footnotes.

*
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« Reply #105 on: June 06, 2012, 06:33:15 PM »

Hahaha. Oh you are just the worst kind of person. Cheesy I would have made him a card, too, if my Arabic was better. I don't know how much English he knew. Also, quit rubbing it in.  I was already jealous enough that you got to meet him and I didn't, and that was when he was still among us, so you can imagine how I feel now. Jerk. Cry

Well I don't know who will be chosen to follow Baba Shenouda III, but it's now my life's mission to track that person down and hug him before you get to. And maybe by then I can make him a card, too. Thank you, TITL. You have given me a new life goal today.*  Cool

* beyond showing you how asterisks work, I mean.

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« Reply #106 on: June 06, 2012, 06:38:10 PM »

Oh, yeah... asterisks, not stars! Duh.**
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« Reply #107 on: June 06, 2012, 06:53:23 PM »

Because if that's so, I want to put HH in place of Mar Mattai. Smiley

I'm sure he'd like the idea.
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« Reply #108 on: June 06, 2012, 06:56:50 PM »

Because if that's so, I want to put HH in place of Mar Mattai. Smiley

I'm sure he'd like the idea.

Who is Mar Mattai?

How does Jeremy know saints that I don't?? ************************
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« Reply #109 on: June 06, 2012, 07:30:19 PM »

What is wrong with Mar Mattai, Michal?

Mar Mattai is, as far as I can tell, one of those "Pan-Syrian" kinds of saints who is beloved like Mar Isaac or Mar Ephrem, by everyone of that heritage. To probably belabor the point, I first read his story in a book by a Chaldean Catholic author, but the monastery that bears his name is one of the oldest Syriac Orthodox monasteries in Iraq, and maybe the world (founded 363 AD). The story of Mar Mattai is this: He fled the city of Amid (where he was born) during the persecutions of Julian the Apostate. He ended up in the mountains of Nineveh where he met Prince Behnam, who was the son of an Assyrian pagan king. During their time together Mar Mattai preached to Prince Behnam and also cured his sister Sarah of disease. Through his preaching, both were baptized, along with Behnam's companions. When their father (the pagan king) learned that they had accepted Christianity, he was enraged and killed his son and daughter. Later, he realized that he had made a mistake and in his grief over his loss and repentance for his sin, he had a monastery built bearing their names on the spot where Mar Mattai had healed Sarah. This monastery, like Mar Mattai monastery, still exists today, although according to Wikipedia it has been administered by the Syriac Catholics of the village of Bakhdida since they converted to Rome starting in the 18th century (before that it had been Syriac Orthodox, and before that it had been Nestorian).

I love Mar Mattai because his story shows how simple preaching can bring even a murderer of his own children to the light, and I find the connection between these two monasteries very interesting for what it says about the richness of Syriac Christianity in Mesopotamia/Iraq (that they would pass through so many hands, and be equally beloved by all).

I do not believe that it is wrong to venerate Mar Mattai, even if he may have done his work among the Nestorians. He is recognized as a saint by our brothers and sisters in the Syriac Orthodox Church, and this is good enough for me. Plus, what an awesome story!
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« Reply #110 on: June 07, 2012, 12:01:14 AM »

1) St. Olav (my patron)
2) St. John Chrysostom
3) St. Athanasius of Alexandria
4) St. Gregory the Great
5) St. Maximus the Confessor
6) St. John Climacus
7) St. Gregory Palamas
Cool St. Constantine the Great
9) St. Seraphim Rose
10) St. Seraphim of Sarov
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« Reply #111 on: June 07, 2012, 10:31:38 PM »

It bothers me that no OO's here have mentioned Sts. Severus of Antioch and Dioscorus of Alexandria, and some of our other great Christologians and defenders of faith like Sts. Philoxenus of Mabbug and Jacob Baradeus.
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« Reply #112 on: June 07, 2012, 10:58:15 PM »

For myself, I only didn't list them because I am much more familiar with the writings and lives of other saints, whereas those you are asking about I mainly know through the exposition of others. At least partially this must be because I'm new to the OO church, but I have also noticed that it is somewhat more difficult to find the writings of these great saints than those of others. Many are available only in very expensive or obscure academic works. Outside of Fr. Peter's very good work in the Oriental Orthodox Library (of which I own too few volumes, I'll admit), I am unaware of any economically-priced (and well translated/well written) English-language material on a great many OO saints or OO-specific topics. And since my church does not have a bookstore, I am pretty much stuck with used copies of Gorgia's Press books or similar from Amazon, e.g., HH Ignatius Aphram Barsoum's "History of the Syriac Dioceses, 1687-1774" for $6; my point is not to brag, but to point out that the book is only available in hardback, is only 123 pages, and sells from Amazon for $100.82, which is much less than from the publisher -- who could afford such a thing?! This is a problem for those who would like to learn but aren't millionaires.
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« Reply #113 on: June 07, 2012, 11:05:28 PM »

^I understand. I wasn't trying to condemn anyone. I was simply making an observation.
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« Reply #114 on: June 07, 2012, 11:33:53 PM »

Oh, I know. I was just explaining one possible reason why some OO might not be as well-educated on particular saints who are nonetheless very important to us.
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« Reply #115 on: June 07, 2012, 11:37:22 PM »

It bothers me that no OO's here have mentioned Sts. Severus of Antioch and Dioscorus of Alexandria, and some of our other great Christologians and defenders of faith like Sts. Philoxenus of Mabbug and Jacob Baradeus.

Our Cyrill is there, as is Athanasius and those two have said what needed to be said about our Christology  Grin but yeah I could continue..10 was a very limitting #

11.St. Abba Dioscorus of Alexandria  
12. St.Abba Severus of Antioch
13.St. Mor Yacob of Serug the flute of the Spirit
14.St. Fremnatius Abba Salama the Illuminator of Ethiopia
15.The Nine Saints that came to Ethiopia feeling persecution after Chalcedon
16. Sts.Abba Macarius the Great and Abba Pachomius
17.St.Abba Arsanius the Great
18.St.Abba Evagrius the Solitary
19.St. Ignatius of Antioch
20.St. Abba Tekelehaymanot
21.St.Amma Fikirte Kristos
22.St.Amma Kirstos Semra
23.St.Abba Georgis of Gatscha
24.St.Abba Samuel of Walddiba
 
these and quite a few more, through their writings and/or lives, in no particular order, had great influence on me. Smiley
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« Reply #116 on: June 08, 2012, 01:27:53 AM »

It bothers me that no OO's here have mentioned Sts. Severus of Antioch and Dioscorus of Alexandria, and some of our other great Christologians and defenders of faith like Sts. Philoxenus of Mabbug and Jacob Baradeus.

This is not a place for big divisive. But if you like them, go on and mention them yourself.

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« Reply #117 on: June 08, 2012, 05:19:05 AM »

What is wrong with Mar Mattai, Michal?

Mar Mattai is, as far as I can tell, one of those "Pan-Syrian" kinds of saints who is beloved like Mar Isaac or Mar Ephrem, by everyone of that heritage. To probably belabor the point, I first read his story in a book by a Chaldean Catholic author, but the monastery that bears his name is one of the oldest Syriac Orthodox monasteries in Iraq, and maybe the world (founded 363 AD). The story of Mar Mattai is this: He fled the city of Amid (where he was born) during the persecutions of Julian the Apostate. He ended up in the mountains of Nineveh where he met Prince Behnam, who was the son of an Assyrian pagan king. During their time together Mar Mattai preached to Prince Behnam and also cured his sister Sarah of disease. Through his preaching, both were baptized, along with Behnam's companions. When their father (the pagan king) learned that they had accepted Christianity, he was enraged and killed his son and daughter. Later, he realized that he had made a mistake and in his grief over his loss and repentance for his sin, he had a monastery built bearing their names on the spot where Mar Mattai had healed Sarah. This monastery, like Mar Mattai monastery, still exists today, although according to Wikipedia it has been administered by the Syriac Catholics of the village of Bakhdida since they converted to Rome starting in the 18th century (before that it had been Syriac Orthodox, and before that it had been Nestorian).

I love Mar Mattai because his story shows how simple preaching can bring even a murderer of his own children to the light, and I find the connection between these two monasteries very interesting for what it says about the richness of Syriac Christianity in Mesopotamia/Iraq (that they would pass through so many hands, and be equally beloved by all).

I do not believe that it is wrong to venerate Mar Mattai, even if he may have done his work among the Nestorians. He is recognized as a saint by our brothers and sisters in the Syriac Orthodox Church, and this is good enough for me. Plus, what an awesome story!

I'm not sure how such great reverence is suitable for your announcement that you cross him out of the list.
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« Reply #118 on: June 08, 2012, 02:12:21 PM »

Because the thread is top ten saints, and with him and HH, I would have eleven (and HH would go there instead because HH had more of a direct role in bringing me into the Orthodox Church). Smiley
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« Reply #119 on: June 11, 2012, 07:11:23 PM »

My top 10 saints are:

1. St. Katherine (or Catherine) of Alexandria (my patron saint)
2. St. Nikolai Velimirovich of Zicha (my parish's patron saint)
3. St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco
4. St. Mary of Egypt
5. St. John of Kronstadt
6. St. Tikhon of Zadonsk
7. St Tikhon, Metropolitan of Moscow and Enlightener of North America
8. St. John Chysostom
9. St. Basil the Great
10.  St. Photini
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« Reply #120 on: October 04, 2012, 12:36:19 PM »

--Bump--

I don't know why, but I wanted to throw my input out there. I cant put them in order, they are all in Christ:

1) St. Athanasius of Alexandria
2) St. Severus of Antioch
3) Met. Anthony Bloom
4) Fr. Matthew the Poor
5) Pope Kyrollos the 6th
6) St. Macarius the Great
7) St. Evagrius Ponticus
Cool St. Moses the Strong
9) St. Elder Paisius of the Holy Mountain
10) St. Theophan the Recluse

I love all of these Holy People. A few of them not canonized, but no doubt, they are holy men of God in who's shadows we will be safe if we walk.

I am a fool,

RO
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« Reply #121 on: October 04, 2012, 01:04:05 PM »

--Bump--

I don't know why, but I wanted to throw my input out there. I cant put them in order, they are all in Christ:

1) St. Athanasius of Alexandria
2) St. Severus of Antioch
3) Met. Anthony Bloom
4) Fr. Matthew the Poor
5) Pope Kyrollos the 6th
6) St. Macarius the Great
7) St. Evagrius Ponticus
Cool St. Moses the Strong
9) St. Elder Paisius of the Holy Mountain
10) St. Theophan the Recluse

I love all of these Holy People. A few of them not canonized, but no doubt, they are holy men of God in who's shadows we will be safe if we walk.

I am a fool,

RO

You are wrong.  The correct answer is "St. Isaac of Nineveh, and the others beside him are all equal."
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« Reply #122 on: October 04, 2012, 01:12:48 PM »

1. St. Gregory of Nyssa
2. St. Cyril of Alexandria
3. St. Anthony the Great
4. St. Athanasius
5. St. Symeon the Stylite
6. St. Ignatius of Antioch
7. St. Photius the Great
8. St. Cyprian
9. Thirty Martyrs of Sebaste
10. St. Gregory Palamas
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« Reply #123 on: October 04, 2012, 01:20:02 PM »

It's difficult to choose only 10...
Certainly, after the Theotokos first is my Slava - st. Luke, but they're from the Scriptures. So, in not particular order:

1. St. Sava
2. St. John Damascene
3. St. Anthony the Great
4. St. Mary of Egypt
5. St. John Climacus
6. St. Ephrem the Syrian
7. St. Nicholas of Myra
8. St. John Chysostom
9. St. Cyril and st. Methodius (it’s difficult to separate them)
10. St. Nicholas Velimirovic

And I'm waiting for the canonization of Serbian Patriarch Pavle
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« Reply #124 on: October 11, 2012, 06:39:07 PM »

St. Boris-Michael of Bulgaria, Equal to the Apostles
Sts. Cyril and Methodius
St. Nicholas of Myra
St. Panteleimon
St. Anthony the Great
Sts. Anthony and Theodosius of the Kiev Caves
St. John of Rila
St. Elizabeth the New Martyr
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« Reply #125 on: January 02, 2013, 11:26:17 AM »

In no particular order:

St Basil the Great
St Gregory of Nazianzus
St John Chrysostom
St Athanasius (my father's patron)
St Katherine of Alexandria (my mother's patron)
St Philothea of Athens
St Mary of Egypt
St Helena, Equal to the Apostles
St Cosmas of Aetolia
St Nectarius of Aegina
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« Reply #126 on: January 02, 2013, 12:09:47 PM »

Ooh, fun!

Here are mine, in no particular order:

1. St. Moses the Strong
2. St. Gregory Palamas
3. St. Ignatius of Antioch
4. St. Seraphim of Sarov
5. St. Melania the Younger
6. St. Theodora the Iconodule
7. St. Mary of Egypt
8. St. Arsenius the Great
9. St. Anthony the Great
10. St. Abo of Tiflis
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« Reply #127 on: January 02, 2013, 12:40:52 PM »

In no particular order:

1. St. Seraphim of Sarov
2. St. Ambrose of Milan
3. St. Cuthbert of Lindisfarne
4. St. Benedict of Nursia
5. St. Theophan the Recluse
6. St. Gregory Palamas
7. St. Patrick of Ireland
8. St. Maximus the Confessor
9. St. Brendan the Navigator
10. St. Columba of Iona
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« Reply #128 on: January 02, 2013, 03:38:26 PM »

St. Anthony the Great
St. Juliana of Lazarevo
St. Seraphim of Sarov
St. Mary of Egypt
St. John Chrysostom
St. John Climacus
The Fools for Christ
St. Cosmas of Aetolia
The Uncondemning Monk
St. Gregory Palamas

No particular order. Smiley
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« Reply #129 on: January 02, 2013, 04:48:03 PM »

Why nobodoy has one of the twelve Apostles in his list!!!?? That's awful!
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« Reply #130 on: January 02, 2013, 05:33:29 PM »

Why nobodoy has one of the twelve Apostles in his list!!!?? That's awful!
Because of this:

In your opinion, who are the top ten greatest Saints in the Church NOT mentioned in the Scriptures?



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« Reply #131 on: January 02, 2013, 07:07:05 PM »

Why nobodoy has one of the twelve Apostles in his list!!!?? That's awful!
Because of this:

In your opinion, who are the top ten greatest Saints in the Church NOT mentioned in the Scriptures?




I'm an idiot. -.-'. izvini
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« Reply #132 on: January 02, 2013, 07:09:44 PM »

At least your zeal is a good thing Smiley
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« Reply #133 on: January 02, 2013, 07:25:06 PM »

At least your zeal is a good thing Smiley

 Undecided
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« Reply #134 on: January 07, 2013, 03:20:19 PM »

1. The Saintly All-HOLINESS Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I
2. The Saintly Eminence, Emmanuel of France
3. Saint John Paul II
4. The Saintly All-HOLINESS Ecumenical Patriarch Dionysius IV Muselimes (the Muslim)
5. The Holy Fathers of the 3rd Meeting of the Joint Commission for Theological Dialogue between the Orthodox Church and the Oriental Orthodox Churches
6. The Holy Fathers of the Joint International Commission for the Theological Dialogue between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church VIIth Plenary Session
7. The Saintly Titular Reverend, Killistos Ware
8. The Saintly Titular Reverend, John of Pergamon


i cannot count past 8
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« Reply #135 on: January 08, 2013, 12:48:55 AM »

1. The Saintly All-HOLINESS Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I
2. The Saintly Eminence, Emmanuel of France
3. Saint John Paul II
4. The Saintly All-HOLINESS Ecumenical Patriarch Dionysius IV Muselimes (the Muslim)
5. The Holy Fathers of the 3rd Meeting of the Joint Commission for Theological Dialogue between the Orthodox Church and the Oriental Orthodox Churches
6. The Holy Fathers of the Joint International Commission for the Theological Dialogue between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church VIIth Plenary Session
7. The Saintly Titular Reverend, Killistos Ware
8. The Saintly Titular Reverend, John of Pergamon


i cannot count past 8

You forgot Fr. John Anthony McGuckin. The clip at which he publishes terrific books is definitely supernatural.
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« Reply #136 on: January 08, 2013, 12:57:21 AM »

1-10: Nicholas of Myra

He punched Arius. How much more can you do?

-Nick
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« Reply #137 on: January 08, 2013, 11:48:11 PM »

In no particular order:

+St. Cyril of Alexandria
+St. Athanasius of Alexandria
+St. Severus of Antioch
+St. Dioscorus of Alexandria
+St. John Chrysostom
+St. Paul the Hermit
+St. Anthony the Great
+St. Basil the Great
+St. Gregory of Nyssa
+St. Gregory the Theologian
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« Reply #138 on: January 09, 2013, 04:49:17 PM »

I think it is one thing to ask who are your top 10 favorite Saints, it is another to ask WHO are the the top 10 greatest saints, be careful in making such judgement.

From one of my favorite books.

"The man who thinks of the greatness of his own sins and the littleness of his virtues, and of the distance between himself and the perfection of the saints, acts much more acceptably to God than the one who argues about who is greater or who is less. It is better to invoke the saints with devout prayers and tears, and with a humble mind to beg their glorious aid, than to search with vain inquisitiveness into their secrets."

....
"Many ask who is the greater in the kingdom of heaven when they do not know whether they themselves shall be worthy of being numbered among
its least. It is a great thing to be even the least in heaven where all are great because all shall be called, and shall be, the children of God. The least shall be as a thousand, and the sinner of a hundred years shall die. For when the disciples asked who should be greater in the kingdom of heaven they heard this response: "Unless you be converted and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whosoever shall humble himself as this little child, he is the greater in the kingdom of heaven." The Imitation of Christ, Chapter 58, High Matters and the Hidden Judgments of God Are Not to Be Scrutinized
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 04:49:30 PM by domNoah » Logged

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