Topic: 'Mommy Porn'- The NEWEST romance novel craze

[GabrieltheCelt]

Hey y'all,

 So, the so-called 'romance novel' genre has been around for quite awhile.  But it seems there's a new type of romance novel/media that's slowly been seducing it's way to the top called 'Mommy Porn' or 'Erotic Novels'.  It probably started earlier, but I think it sorta took off with the 'Sex In The City' craze.  Now, there's a new novel out there that has almost every woman from their 20's to their 50's clamoring for it.  It's reportedly been banned in several city libraries only to be readmitted.  And if you're one of these women who's dying to read it- there's a waiting list at almost every city library.  The novel is called '50 Shades of Grey' and it's not just steamy, by the authors' own admission it's raunchy. 

 Now, I'm no prude but it seems to me that this newest craze might be just as dangerous as other types of pornography.  For decades, the porn industry has largely targeted men but this stuff is largely written by women and for women, specifically the working/corporate woman. 

 I wonder if this newest craze, like the novel '50 Shades of Grey', is OK for Christians to read, or is it every bit as dangerous as other types of porn?  Some conclude that it's not really pornography and that it gets men and women (specifically husbands and wives) discussing the wants and needs of BOTH partners, while other conclude that, because of the explicit nature and the fact that rarely, if ever, are the main characters married, it's smut and should be avoided by Christians. 

 What would be the Orthodox response to these questions and accusations?  I see Christian women reading this novel and watching these types of shows all the time and am somewhat concerned.  To get an idea of just how popular this particular novel is, go to Amazon books and look at the top sellers.

 So, what say you?

[FormerReformer]

Gabe,

9 times out of 10 so-called "romance" novels ARE porn, just porn aimed at women. The other 1/10 of the time it's more like watching a porn movie with all the sex scenes edited out.

[ZealousZeal]

Subscribing now so I won't forget to check this tomorrow. 

[GabrieltheCelt]

Gabe,

9 times out of 10 so-called "romance" novels ARE porn, just porn aimed at women. The other 1/10 of the time it's more like watching a porn movie with all the sex scenes edited out.

 Did not know this.  Thanks.  The Penthouse magazine letters I'm familiar with, but when you say these novels are porn, are you saying they're as graphic as a pornographic movie or Penthouse letters?  I've never attempted to read these "novels" because I've always thought they were, well, silly.  Plus, the covers, the one's with the male hunk and the beautiful damsel, were my 'scarecrow'.

 I realize fantasies are just that and that they provide a distraction from the demands and responsibilities of our lives.  I also realize that they can be used to 'spice' up the marriage bed if you will.  I just wonder if this type of stuff is to be viewed as harmless entertainment or something to be cautioned against.  Seems that there's some gray area and I was hoping to learn a little more.

 I would really like to hear from the ladies as well; I don't want their voices to get drowned out.   

[dzheremi]

If your OP is correct, they're busy reading.

[GabrieltheCelt]

//BUMP//

[JamesR]

90% of the time Romance Novels are just porn, but it is porn geared towards women and hiding under the 'Romance' label so that women feel classy because they do not want to accept that they are looking at porn. It is fair to mention though that this has been around for ages; erotic literature existed in ancient times, in many Orthodox countries too by the way, and now it exists in modern times. In any case, I find novels like this to be detrimental to women because it gives them an unrealistic standard of what their relationship should be like and their expectations for their man become way too high. I've met women who truly believe that they are princesses and that men should treat them like royalty, and not surprisingly they were huge romance novel fans. Maybe this is why so many marriages and relationships are failing, because of unrealistic standards from certain women. On the other hand, men do the same thing with their porn from a sexual point of view. They make their woman feel insecure or have too high of expectations for what she should look like or be capable of doing in bed because of their porn.

[Big Chris]

I also realize that they can be used to 'spice' up the marriage bed if you will.  I just wonder if this type of stuff is to be viewed as harmless entertainment or something to be cautioned against.  Seems that there's some gray area and I was hoping to learn a little more.

This is where I get confused.

Is the marriage bed to be spiced up?  I don't see how the marriage bed can be spiced up without some kind of porn.  I'm not saying we humans aren't capable of exploration sexually without certain visual aids, such a time had to have been pre-Kama Sutra.  And I'm sorry but some of those Indo-Mughal friezes and reliefs depicting Shiva or whoever it is having an orgy are hot.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

90% of the time Romance Novels are just porn, but it is porn geared towards women and hiding under the 'Romance' label so that women feel classy because they do not want to accept that they are looking at porn. It is fair to mention though that this has been around for ages; erotic literature existed in ancient times, in many Orthodox countries too by the way, and now it exists in modern times. In any case, I find novels like this to be detrimental to women because it gives them an unrealistic standard of what their relationship should be like and their expectations for their man become way too high. I've met women who truly believe that they are princesses and that men should treat them like royalty, and not surprisingly they were huge romance novel fans. Maybe this is why so many marriages and relationships are failing, because of unrealistic standards from certain women. On the other hand, men do the same thing with their porn from a sexual point of view. They make their woman feel insecure or have too high of expectations for what she should look like or be capable of doing in bed because of their porn.

James--I am in awe at your knowledge of these matters at your tender age of 16. If I had been as knowledgeable and wise as you, I would have surely avoided all sorts of woes.

[ZealousZeal]

Okay, I have some general thoughts and nothing better to do at the moment.  

First of all, Romance and Erotica are two different genres. To put it simplistically, Romance is about a love story, focused on the characters. Erotica is, as the name suggests, focused on erotica. Erotica is the genre that is essentially literary porn. Which isn't to say that Romance genre has no sex scenes, but it's not ALL sex scenes. You pull the sex scenes out of Romance and you still have a story. You pull the sex scenes out of erotica and you have a pamphlet. So this:

90% of the time Romance Novels are just porn, but it is porn geared towards women and hiding under the 'Romance' label so that women feel classy because they do not want to accept that they are looking at porn.

I disagree with.

1. Women look at porn. I don't mean an erotica novel, either. I mean actual porn. It's not an issue only men face.

2. Women who want to feel classy don't read Romance. I'll admit, I enjoy a romance novel every now and again (flame away, I know my truth!   ), but if I want to feel classy, it's not what I'm reaching for.


But this:

In any case, I find novels like this to be detrimental to women because it gives them an unrealistic standard of what their relationship should be like and their expectations for their man become way too high.

I can get behind. Probably not the case for every reader of romance, but I can definitely see how the potential is there.

As for the OP, and 50 Shades of Grey specifically: After all the hullabaloo, curiosity killed this cat and I downloaded the first chapter for free on my Kindle app. I figured the raunchy-ness would definitely not be in the first chapter where we would be merely meeting the characters. The buzz on these books is so big, so I wanted to know what the fuss was about, and if the story was compelling.

No. Just, no. The writing is atrocious. I mean, seriously. Ten minutes of my life I can never get back. I found out after the fact that it started as Twilight fan fiction, but I literally Googled the author because I seriously thought (based on the quality of writing) it was written by a 14 year old. So, that's all I got on that. I haven't read the book(s), and after reading the first chapter I have no desire to. I would not give this woman a dime for her horrible abuse of literature when there are other authors who can string three words together coherently that are struggling to get published.

[vamrat]

ZZ, so you're saying I should just go ahead and get that History of the Rhodesian Bush War and eschew the 50 Shades of Twilight?

Thanks for the warning.

[JamesR]

90% of the time Romance Novels are just porn, but it is porn geared towards women and hiding under the 'Romance' label so that women feel classy because they do not want to accept that they are looking at porn. It is fair to mention though that this has been around for ages; erotic literature existed in ancient times, in many Orthodox countries too by the way, and now it exists in modern times. In any case, I find novels like this to be detrimental to women because it gives them an unrealistic standard of what their relationship should be like and their expectations for their man become way too high. I've met women who truly believe that they are princesses and that men should treat them like royalty, and not surprisingly they were huge romance novel fans. Maybe this is why so many marriages and relationships are failing, because of unrealistic standards from certain women. On the other hand, men do the same thing with their porn from a sexual point of view. They make their woman feel insecure or have too high of expectations for what she should look like or be capable of doing in bed because of their porn.

James--I am in awe at your knowledge of these matters at your tender age of 16. If I had been as knowledgeable and wise as you, I would have surely avoided all sorts of woes.

[ZealousZeal]

ZZ, so you're saying I should just go ahead and get that History of the Rhodesian Bush War and eschew the 50 Shades of Twilight?

Thanks for the warning.

Vamrat, anything for you, mon ami.

[dzheremi]

I have to say, ZZ's post kind of makes me want to read it just to see how badly one can write and still make millions of dollars. But also I'm afraid it would be so bad it would be one of those "cannot un-see" sort of deals, in which case...I dunno, I don't think I need millions of dollars that badly.

[biro]

I haven't read it. I don't plan to, either. Doesn't sound like the kind of thing I'd like at all. 

[GabrieltheCelt]

So then I gather that the consensus is that this stuff is mostly immoral and to generally be avoided by Christians?

[katherineofdixie]

So then I gather that the consensus is that this stuff is mostly immoral and to generally be avoided by Christians?

And a serious waste of time as well.

[vamrat]

So then I gather that the consensus is that this stuff is mostly immoral and to generally be avoided by Christians?

Yeah right.  I think I am going to write my own trashy romance novels.  That should help me pick up chicks and make me millionz in the process, thereby helping me pick up even more chicks.

I already have a list of horrifying similes chosen.  Unfortunately, I cannot bring myself to post them on a Christian forum. 

[ZealousZeal]

I have to say, ZZ's post kind of makes me want to read it just to see how badly one can write and still make millions of dollars. But also I'm afraid it would be so bad it would be one of those "cannot un-see" sort of deals, in which case...I dunno, I don't think I need millions of dollars that badly.

Like I said, I haven't read the book but after reading the first chapter I really feel like this reviewer is right on the money:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1LT38SAC0FA4G/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0345803485&nodeID=283155&store=books

Serious LOLs in that one.

So then I gather that the consensus is that this stuff is mostly immoral and to generally be avoided by Christians?

And a serious waste of time as well.

Bingo.

[Iconodule]

I flipped to a random page in 50 Shades of Grey and there was immediate laughter to be had. In terms of values, I would agree that this stuff is completely degenerate. It seems to revolve around a worship of power and wealth. I heard from someone that it was originally Twilight fanfiction, which, if true, really says something.

[dzheremi]

Haha. That review was fantastic.

I'm sorry to say that I did the same as Iconodule and looked up a random page, and...oh my. It's even worse than I could have ever imagined. Maybe it's some kind of elaborate literary in-joke, like Naked Came the Stranger?

I can hope, can't I...

[Orual]

What I especially dislike about this book is how it has led to mainstream sources pushing pornography.  It's sickening to see this.

[augustin717]

I flipped to a random page in 50 Shades of Grey and there was immediate laughter to be had. In terms of values, I would agree that this stuff is completely degenerate. It seems to revolve around a worship of power and wealth. I heard from someone that it was originally Twilight fanfiction, which, if true, really says something.

You mean like Touchstone? That's what they worship there too.

[Iconodule]

I flipped to a random page in 50 Shades of Grey and there was immediate laughter to be had. In terms of values, I would agree that this stuff is completely degenerate. It seems to revolve around a worship of power and wealth. I heard from someone that it was originally Twilight fanfiction, which, if true, really says something.

You mean like Touchstone? That's what they worship there too.

It's exactly like Touchstone, but with more butt plugs and elevator quickies.

[gonefishing]

Romance novels have nothing to do with romance.  I work for a distributor of this crap and it's literary pornography.  When it's sexually graphic, particularly deviant, then it's porn.  Men do pictures, women like to read theirs.  And my employer also distributes christian romance.  I pull up accounts all day long of people ordering both, and that's quite a joke at work--"Christians are the biggest hypocrites."  I used to resent that, but a year and a half later, yeah it's true.  If you're ordering Christian fiction because you want your "God" and it's all a front because you're also ordering books full of bed-hopping, group sex, sex in public, graphic descriptions not just of acts but of body parts (like we all don't know what we look like down to the wrinkle anyway) and these books where the authors have completely run out of ideas and are now just trying to out-sick each other, then yes, a hypocrite you would be. 

Trigger issue for me.  Seriously.  We've turned sex into a public farce, which necessarily drains life of meaning.  We're now just largely monkeys walking our bodies around in the world.  Sad.  Sad as hell. 

[Sauron]

I actually have a manuscript for such a novel of my own with a publisher for review, and I am saddened by the judgmentalism here.

Here is an excerpt from one of the "spicier" scenes of my novel:

And then he started making whoopie with me.

"Oh yeah, we're making whoopie! Cool!" I said.

"Yea, I like whoopie" he replied.

Don't plagiarize my stuff.

[Agabus]

Haha. That review was fantastic.

I'm sorry to say that I did the same as Iconodule and looked up a random page, and...oh my. It's even worse than I could have ever imagined. Maybe it's some kind of elaborate literary in-joke, like Naked Came the Stranger?

I can hope, can't I...

No, it's much worse. The whole thing started out as a piece of Twilight fanfic.

And that is literally all I know about it.

[yeshuaisiam]

Lust is lust, whether thought, viewed, or read.  All sins.

[dzheremi]

I actually have a manuscript for such a novel of my own with a publisher for review, and I am saddened by the judgmentalism here.

Here is an excerpt from one of the "spicier" scenes of my novel:

And then he started making whoopie with me.

"Oh yeah, we're making whoopie! Cool!" I said.

"Yea, I like whoopie" he replied.

Don't plagiarize my stuff.

Coming soon to a Kindle near the soccer mom near you: 50 Shades of Whoopie

[That person]

I actually have a manuscript for such a novel of my own with a publisher for review, and I am saddened by the judgmentalism here.

Here is an excerpt from one of the "spicier" scenes of my novel:

And then he started making whoopie with me.

"Oh yeah, we're making whoopie! Cool!" I said.

"Yea, I like whoopie" he replied.

Don't plagiarize my stuff.

Must you inflame my youthful lust so?

[biro]

I flipped to a random page in 50 Shades of Grey and there was immediate laughter to be had. In terms of values, I would agree that this stuff is completely degenerate. It seems to revolve around a worship of power and wealth. I heard from someone that it was originally Twilight fanfiction, which, if true, really says something.

You mean like Touchstone? That's what they worship there too.

It's exactly like Touchstone, but with more butt plugs and elevator quickies.

Way, way too much information. 

[Justin Kissel]

I've heard of making books to support movies, video games, etc., but this is the first time I've heard of making books to support porn videos. Or... are they talking about a different kind of "Mommy porn" 

[Schultz]

As for the OP, and 50 Shades of Grey specifically: After all the hullabaloo, curiosity killed this cat and I downloaded the first chapter for free on my Kindle app. I figured the raunchy-ness would definitely not be in the first chapter where we would be merely meeting the characters. The buzz on these books is so big, so I wanted to know what the fuss was about, and if the story was compelling.

No. Just, no. The writing is atrocious. I mean, seriously. Ten minutes of my life I can never get back. I found out after the fact that it started as Twilight fan fiction, but I literally Googled the author because I seriously thought (based on the quality of writing) it was written by a 14 year old. So, that's all I got on that. I haven't read the book(s), and after reading the first chapter I have no desire to. I would not give this woman a dime for her horrible abuse of literature when there are other authors who can string three words together coherently that are struggling to get published.

My wife did the same and lasted a bit longer than you..thirty minutes, to be exact.

There's a vid on youtube of comedian Gilbert Godfried doing a dramatic reading of some passages.  It's hilarious not just because of the way Gilbert reads it (he does it rather straight), but because the writing itself.

[biro]

I miss the days when 'romance' in literature meant adventure, like 'Ivanhoe.' Now that's a book.

[Justin Kissel]

There's a vid on youtube of comedian Gilbert Godfried doing a dramatic  reading of some passages.  It's hilarious not just because of the way Gilbert reads it (he does it rather straight), but because the writing itself.

Darn, I could only find short clips of it. A deeper search brought up vids that have since been removed. 

[Schultz]

There's a vid on youtube of comedian Gilbert Godfried doing a dramatic  reading of some passages.  It's hilarious not just because of the way Gilbert reads it (he does it rather straight), but because the writing itself.

Darn, I could only find short clips of it. A deeper search brought up vids that have since been removed.  

Gilbert Gottfried reads 50 Shades of Grey

NOTE: THIS IS REPLETE WITH GRAPHIC LANGUAGE.

[Justin Kissel]

Lol, thanks (I think)

[Shiny]

I accidently clicked this thread from my work computer, hopefully I don't get fired.

[vamrat]

I miss the days when 'romance' in literature meant adventure, like 'Ivanhoe.' Now that's a book.

Ivanhoe sounds like an awesome idea for a romantic novel!

Tsar Ivan the Terrible: "What are you doing in Holy Russia, vile woman of the night?!"

Hoe: "A girl's gotta work, so you gonna pay or you gonna go away?"

Tsar Ivan the Terrible: [hits Hoe with stick]  "No one dresses immodestly in front of Ivan the Terrible, Hoe.  Now gimme them ducats!"

[LizaSymonenko]

I accidently clicked this thread from my work computer, hopefully I don't get fired.

I don't think you have to worry.  The word "porn" doesn't appear in teh URL, so it won't get "flagged".

[ZealousZeal]

There's a vid on youtube of comedian Gilbert Godfried doing a dramatic  reading of some passages.  It's hilarious not just because of the way Gilbert reads it (he does it rather straight), but because the writing itself.

Darn, I could only find short clips of it. A deeper search brought up vids that have since been removed.  

Gilbert Gottfried reads 50 Shades of Grey

NOTE: THIS IS REPLETE WITH GRAPHIC LANGUAGE.

OMG. I was laughing so hard I couldn't breathe. That was definitely NSFW.

[dzheremi]

That is the funniest thing I have ever seen. Also: I'm going to throw up.

I'm confused.

[BalmungSama]

From what I've heard, 50 Shades of Grey is extremely explicit, going into bondage and other..... raunchy sexual acts. I don't rrealy get it. From what I knew, "Mom Porn" was pretty much bad romance novels with lots of sex thrown in. This stuff sounds absolutely perverse and makes the previous stuff sound like an especially tame episode of Sesame Street.
I don't know much about it, but here's a video of Gilbert Gotfried reading some excerpts.

WARNING: Explicit
http://www.jest.com/video/174214/gilbert-gottfried-reads-fifty-shades-of-grey

[BalmungSama]

Crap. Someone already posted the link. >_<

[akimori makoto]

. It seems to revolve around a worship of power and wealth.

So it is just porn for women?