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GabrieltheCelt
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« on: June 01, 2012, 12:31:40 AM » |
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Hey y'all,
So, the so-called 'romance novel' genre has been around for quite awhile. But it seems there's a new type of romance novel/media that's slowly been seducing it's way to the top called 'Mommy Porn' or 'Erotic Novels'. It probably started earlier, but I think it sorta took off with the 'Sex In The City' craze. Now, there's a new novel out there that has almost every woman from their 20's to their 50's clamoring for it. It's reportedly been banned in several city libraries only to be readmitted. And if you're one of these women who's dying to read it- there's a waiting list at almost every city library. The novel is called '50 Shades of Grey' and it's not just steamy, by the authors' own admission it's raunchy.
Now, I'm no prude but it seems to me that this newest craze might be just as dangerous as other types of pornography. For decades, the porn industry has largely targeted men but this stuff is largely written by women and for women, specifically the working/corporate woman.
I wonder if this newest craze, like the novel '50 Shades of Grey', is OK for Christians to read, or is it every bit as dangerous as other types of porn? Some conclude that it's not really pornography and that it gets men and women (specifically husbands and wives) discussing the wants and needs of BOTH partners, while other conclude that, because of the explicit nature and the fact that rarely, if ever, are the main characters married, it's smut and should be avoided by Christians.
What would be the Orthodox response to these questions and accusations? I see Christian women reading this novel and watching these types of shows all the time and am somewhat concerned. To get an idea of just how popular this particular novel is, go to Amazon books and look at the top sellers.
So, what say you?
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"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America." ~Scots-Irish saying
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FormerReformer
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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2012, 12:48:16 AM » |
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Gabe,
9 times out of 10 so-called "romance" novels ARE porn, just porn aimed at women. The other 1/10 of the time it's more like watching a porn movie with all the sex scenes edited out.
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"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are." TH White Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy! |
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ZealousZeal
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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2012, 01:06:07 AM » |
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Subscribing now so I won't forget to check this tomorrow.  |
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There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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GabrieltheCelt
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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2012, 03:08:06 AM » |
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Gabe,
9 times out of 10 so-called "romance" novels ARE porn, just porn aimed at women. The other 1/10 of the time it's more like watching a porn movie with all the sex scenes edited out.
Did not know this. Thanks. The Penthouse magazine letters I'm familiar with, but when you say these novels are porn, are you saying they're as graphic as a pornographic movie or Penthouse letters? I've never attempted to read these "novels" because I've always thought they were, well, silly. Plus, the covers, the one's with the male hunk and the beautiful damsel, were my 'scarecrow'. I realize fantasies are just that and that they provide a distraction from the demands and responsibilities of our lives. I also realize that they can be used to 'spice' up the marriage bed if you will. I just wonder if this type of stuff is to be viewed as harmless entertainment or something to be cautioned against. Seems that there's some gray area and I was hoping to learn a little more. I would really like to hear from the ladies as well; I don't want their voices to get drowned out. |
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"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America." ~Scots-Irish saying
"Yes, you are a white supremacist, ..." ~Iconodule
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dzheremi
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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2012, 03:44:53 AM » |
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If your OP is correct, they're busy reading.
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GabrieltheCelt
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« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2012, 01:47:05 PM » |
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//BUMP//
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"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America." ~Scots-Irish saying
"Yes, you are a white supremacist, ..." ~Iconodule
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JamesR
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2012, 01:48:21 PM » |
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90% of the time Romance Novels are just porn, but it is porn geared towards women and hiding under the 'Romance' label so that women feel classy because they do not want to accept that they are looking at porn. It is fair to mention though that this has been around for ages; erotic literature existed in ancient times, in many Orthodox countries too by the way, and now it exists in modern times. In any case, I find novels like this to be detrimental to women because it gives them an unrealistic standard of what their relationship should be like and their expectations for their man become way too high. I've met women who truly believe that they are princesses and that men should treat them like royalty, and not surprisingly they were huge romance novel fans. Maybe this is why so many marriages and relationships are failing, because of unrealistic standards from certain women. On the other hand, men do the same thing with their porn from a sexual point of view. They make their woman feel insecure or have too high of expectations for what she should look like or be capable of doing in bed because of their porn.
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« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 01:51:55 PM by JamesR »
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Big Chris
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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2012, 02:06:32 PM » |
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I also realize that they can be used to 'spice' up the marriage bed if you will. I just wonder if this type of stuff is to be viewed as harmless entertainment or something to be cautioned against. Seems that there's some gray area and I was hoping to learn a little more.
This is where I get confused. Is the marriage bed to be spiced up? I don't see how the marriage bed can be spiced up without some kind of porn. I'm not saying we humans aren't capable of exploration sexually without certain visual aids, such a time had to have been pre-Kama Sutra. And I'm sorry but some of those Indo-Mughal friezes and reliefs depicting Shiva or whoever it is having an orgy are hot. |
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Tasting is Believing
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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2012, 02:10:17 PM » |
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90% of the time Romance Novels are just porn, but it is porn geared towards women and hiding under the 'Romance' label so that women feel classy because they do not want to accept that they are looking at porn. It is fair to mention though that this has been around for ages; erotic literature existed in ancient times, in many Orthodox countries too by the way, and now it exists in modern times. In any case, I find novels like this to be detrimental to women because it gives them an unrealistic standard of what their relationship should be like and their expectations for their man become way too high. I've met women who truly believe that they are princesses and that men should treat them like royalty, and not surprisingly they were huge romance novel fans. Maybe this is why so many marriages and relationships are failing, because of unrealistic standards from certain women. On the other hand, men do the same thing with their porn from a sexual point of view. They make their woman feel insecure or have too high of expectations for what she should look like or be capable of doing in bed because of their porn.
James--I am in awe at your knowledge of these matters at your tender age of 16. If I had been as knowledgeable and wise as you, I would have surely avoided all sorts of woes. |
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Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
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ZealousZeal
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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2012, 02:12:21 PM » |
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Okay, I have some general thoughts and nothing better to do at the moment.  First of all, Romance and Erotica are two different genres. To put it simplistically, Romance is about a love story, focused on the characters. Erotica is, as the name suggests, focused on erotica. Erotica is the genre that is essentially literary porn. Which isn't to say that Romance genre has no sex scenes, but it's not ALL sex scenes. You pull the sex scenes out of Romance and you still have a story. You pull the sex scenes out of erotica and you have a pamphlet. So this: 90% of the time Romance Novels are just porn, but it is porn geared towards women and hiding under the 'Romance' label so that women feel classy because they do not want to accept that they are looking at porn.
I disagree with. 1. Women look at porn. I don't mean an erotica novel, either. I mean actual porn. It's not an issue only men face. 2. Women who want to feel classy don't read Romance. I'll admit, I enjoy a romance novel every now and again (flame away, I know my truth!  ), but if I want to feel classy, it's not what I'm reaching for. But this: In any case, I find novels like this to be detrimental to women because it gives them an unrealistic standard of what their relationship should be like and their expectations for their man become way too high.
I can get behind. Probably not the case for every reader of romance, but I can definitely see how the potential is there. As for the OP, and 50 Shades of Grey specifically: After all the hullabaloo, curiosity killed this cat and I downloaded the first chapter for free on my Kindle app. I figured the raunchy-ness would definitely not be in the first chapter where we would be merely meeting the characters. The buzz on these books is so big, so I wanted to know what the fuss was about, and if the story was compelling. No. Just, no. The writing is atrocious. I mean, seriously. Ten minutes of my life I can never get back. I found out after the fact that it started as Twilight fan fiction, but I literally Googled the author because I seriously thought (based on the quality of writing) it was written by a 14 year old. So, that's all I got on that. I haven't read the book(s), and after reading the first chapter I have no desire to. I would not give this woman a dime for her horrible abuse of literature when there are other authors who can string three words together coherently that are struggling to get published. |
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There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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vamrat
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« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2012, 02:29:05 PM » |
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ZZ, so you're saying I should just go ahead and get that History of the Rhodesian Bush War and eschew the 50 Shades of Twilight?
Thanks for the warning.
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One day we will talk about why people fetishize children, but for now I'll keep on the side of humanity that doesn't think the height of life is a drinking a juice box and eating a tater tot while defecating in their pants.
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JamesR
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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2012, 02:30:29 PM » |
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90% of the time Romance Novels are just porn, but it is porn geared towards women and hiding under the 'Romance' label so that women feel classy because they do not want to accept that they are looking at porn. It is fair to mention though that this has been around for ages; erotic literature existed in ancient times, in many Orthodox countries too by the way, and now it exists in modern times. In any case, I find novels like this to be detrimental to women because it gives them an unrealistic standard of what their relationship should be like and their expectations for their man become way too high. I've met women who truly believe that they are princesses and that men should treat them like royalty, and not surprisingly they were huge romance novel fans. Maybe this is why so many marriages and relationships are failing, because of unrealistic standards from certain women. On the other hand, men do the same thing with their porn from a sexual point of view. They make their woman feel insecure or have too high of expectations for what she should look like or be capable of doing in bed because of their porn.
James--I am in awe at your knowledge of these matters at your tender age of 16. If I had been as knowledgeable and wise as you, I would have surely avoided all sorts of woes. |
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Wherever goes JamesR goes, he is there. -Orthonorm |
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ZealousZeal
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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2012, 02:45:55 PM » |
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ZZ, so you're saying I should just go ahead and get that History of the Rhodesian Bush War and eschew the 50 Shades of Twilight?
Thanks for the warning.
Vamrat, anything for you, mon ami. |
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There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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dzheremi
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2012, 02:50:02 PM » |
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I have to say, ZZ's post kind of makes me want to read it just to see how badly one can write and still make millions of dollars. But also I'm afraid it would be so bad it would be one of those "cannot un-see" sort of deals, in which case...I dunno, I don't think I need millions of dollars that badly.
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biro
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« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2012, 02:59:45 PM » |
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I haven't read it. I don't plan to, either. Doesn't sound like the kind of thing I'd like at all.  |
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Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be? Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied. http://spcasuncoast.org/ |
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GabrieltheCelt
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« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2012, 03:31:30 PM » |
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So then I gather that the consensus is that this stuff is mostly immoral and to generally be avoided by Christians?
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"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America." ~Scots-Irish saying
"Yes, you are a white supremacist, ..." ~Iconodule
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katherineofdixie
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« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2012, 03:35:18 PM » |
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So then I gather that the consensus is that this stuff is mostly immoral and to generally be avoided by Christians?
And a serious waste of time as well. |
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"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."
St. John Chrysostom
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vamrat
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« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2012, 03:47:03 PM » |
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So then I gather that the consensus is that this stuff is mostly immoral and to generally be avoided by Christians?
Yeah right. I think I am going to write my own trashy romance novels. That should help me pick up chicks and make me millionz in the process, thereby helping me pick up even more chicks. I already have a list of horrifying similes chosen. Unfortunately, I cannot bring myself to post them on a Christian forum. |
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One day we will talk about why people fetishize children, but for now I'll keep on the side of humanity that doesn't think the height of life is a drinking a juice box and eating a tater tot while defecating in their pants.
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ZealousZeal
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« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2012, 10:38:29 PM » |
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I have to say, ZZ's post kind of makes me want to read it just to see how badly one can write and still make millions of dollars. But also I'm afraid it would be so bad it would be one of those "cannot un-see" sort of deals, in which case...I dunno, I don't think I need millions of dollars that badly.
Like I said, I haven't read the book but after reading the first chapter I really feel like this reviewer is right on the money: http://www.amazon.com/review/R1LT38SAC0FA4G/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0345803485&nodeID=283155&store=booksSerious LOLs in that one. So then I gather that the consensus is that this stuff is mostly immoral and to generally be avoided by Christians?
And a serious waste of time as well. Bingo. |
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There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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Iconodule
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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2012, 10:43:50 PM » |
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I flipped to a random page in 50 Shades of Grey and there was immediate laughter to be had. In terms of values, I would agree that this stuff is completely degenerate. It seems to revolve around a worship of power and wealth. I heard from someone that it was originally Twilight fanfiction, which, if true, really says something.
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"A riddle or the cricket's cry Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake Just ignore iconotools delusions. He is the biggest multiculturalist globalist there is due to his unfortunate background.
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dzheremi
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« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2012, 10:57:36 PM » |
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Haha. That review was fantastic. I'm sorry to say that I did the same as Iconodule and looked up a random page, and...oh my. It's even worse than I could have ever imagined. Maybe it's some kind of elaborate literary in-joke, like Naked Came the Stranger? I can hope, can't I...  |
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Orual
Orthodoxy = 7, not 3
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« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2012, 11:59:45 PM » |
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What I especially dislike about this book is how it has led to mainstream sources pushing pornography. It's sickening to see this.
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He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better.
- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
f.k.a. Matron.a
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augustin717
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« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2012, 01:52:05 AM » |
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I flipped to a random page in 50 Shades of Grey and there was immediate laughter to be had. In terms of values, I would agree that this stuff is completely degenerate. It seems to revolve around a worship of power and wealth. I heard from someone that it was originally Twilight fanfiction, which, if true, really says something.
You mean like Touchstone? That's what they worship there too. |
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Iconodule
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« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2012, 06:59:23 AM » |
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I flipped to a random page in 50 Shades of Grey and there was immediate laughter to be had. In terms of values, I would agree that this stuff is completely degenerate. It seems to revolve around a worship of power and wealth. I heard from someone that it was originally Twilight fanfiction, which, if true, really says something.
You mean like Touchstone? That's what they worship there too. It's exactly like Touchstone, but with more butt plugs and elevator quickies. |
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"A riddle or the cricket's cry Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake Just ignore iconotools delusions. He is the biggest multiculturalist globalist there is due to his unfortunate background.
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gonefishing
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« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2012, 03:25:39 PM » |
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Romance novels have nothing to do with romance. I work for a distributor of this crap and it's literary pornography. When it's sexually graphic, particularly deviant, then it's porn. Men do pictures, women like to read theirs. And my employer also distributes christian romance. I pull up accounts all day long of people ordering both, and that's quite a joke at work--"Christians are the biggest hypocrites." I used to resent that, but a year and a half later, yeah it's true. If you're ordering Christian fiction because you want your "God" and it's all a front because you're also ordering books full of bed-hopping, group sex, sex in public, graphic descriptions not just of acts but of body parts (like we all don't know what we look like down to the wrinkle anyway) and these books where the authors have completely run out of ideas and are now just trying to out-sick each other, then yes, a hypocrite you would be.
Trigger issue for me. Seriously. We've turned sex into a public farce, which necessarily drains life of meaning. We're now just largely monkeys walking our bodies around in the world. Sad. Sad as hell.
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Sauron
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« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2012, 07:41:11 PM » |
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I actually have a manuscript for such a novel of my own with a publisher for review, and I am saddened by the judgmentalism here.
Here is an excerpt from one of the "spicier" scenes of my novel:
And then he started making whoopie with me.
"Oh yeah, we're making whoopie! Cool!" I said.
"Yea, I like whoopie" he replied.
Don't plagiarize my stuff.
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Agabus
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« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2012, 09:26:56 PM » |
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Haha. That review was fantastic. I'm sorry to say that I did the same as Iconodule and looked up a random page, and...oh my. It's even worse than I could have ever imagined. Maybe it's some kind of elaborate literary in-joke, like Naked Came the Stranger? I can hope, can't I... No, it's much worse. The whole thing started out as a piece of Twilight fanfic.And that is literally all I know about it. |
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Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.
THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL ORTHODOX CHURCH
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yeshuaisiam
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« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2012, 09:42:59 PM » |
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Lust is lust, whether thought, viewed, or read. All sins.
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dzheremi
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« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2012, 10:11:08 PM » |
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I actually have a manuscript for such a novel of my own with a publisher for review, and I am saddened by the judgmentalism here.
Here is an excerpt from one of the "spicier" scenes of my novel:
And then he started making whoopie with me.
"Oh yeah, we're making whoopie! Cool!" I said.
"Yea, I like whoopie" he replied.
Don't plagiarize my stuff.
Coming soon to a Kindle near the soccer mom near you: 50 Shades of Whoopie |
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That person
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« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2012, 10:47:54 PM » |
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I actually have a manuscript for such a novel of my own with a publisher for review, and I am saddened by the judgmentalism here.
Here is an excerpt from one of the "spicier" scenes of my novel:
And then he started making whoopie with me.
"Oh yeah, we're making whoopie! Cool!" I said.
"Yea, I like whoopie" he replied.
Don't plagiarize my stuff.
Must you inflame my youthful lust so? |
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"Some have such command of their bowels, that they can break wind continuously at pleasure, so as to produce the effect of singing."- St. Augustine of Hippo
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biro
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« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2012, 03:05:15 PM » |
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I flipped to a random page in 50 Shades of Grey and there was immediate laughter to be had. In terms of values, I would agree that this stuff is completely degenerate. It seems to revolve around a worship of power and wealth. I heard from someone that it was originally Twilight fanfiction, which, if true, really says something.
You mean like Touchstone? That's what they worship there too. It's exactly like Touchstone, but with more butt plugs and elevator quickies. Way, way too much information. |
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Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be? Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied. http://spcasuncoast.org/ |
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2012, 06:30:13 AM » |
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I've heard of making books to support movies, video games, etc., but this is the first time I've heard of making books to support porn videos. Or... are they talking about a different kind of "Mommy porn"  |
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We will readily kill people as a punishment even if they want to live, but we won't have mercy on the suffering by helping them die even if they want to leave.
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Schultz
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« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2012, 09:33:06 AM » |
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As for the OP, and 50 Shades of Grey specifically: After all the hullabaloo, curiosity killed this cat and I downloaded the first chapter for free on my Kindle app. I figured the raunchy-ness would definitely not be in the first chapter where we would be merely meeting the characters. The buzz on these books is so big, so I wanted to know what the fuss was about, and if the story was compelling.
No. Just, no. The writing is atrocious. I mean, seriously. Ten minutes of my life I can never get back. I found out after the fact that it started as Twilight fan fiction, but I literally Googled the author because I seriously thought (based on the quality of writing) it was written by a 14 year old. So, that's all I got on that. I haven't read the book(s), and after reading the first chapter I have no desire to. I would not give this woman a dime for her horrible abuse of literature when there are other authors who can string three words together coherently that are struggling to get published.
My wife did the same and lasted a bit longer than you..thirty minutes, to be exact. There's a vid on youtube of comedian Gilbert Godfried doing a dramatic reading of some passages. It's hilarious not just because of the way Gilbert reads it (he does it rather straight), but because the writing itself. |
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biro
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« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2012, 09:50:13 AM » |
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I miss the days when 'romance' in literature meant adventure, like 'Ivanhoe.' Now that's a book.
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Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be? Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied. http://spcasuncoast.org/ |
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2012, 09:56:03 AM » |
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There's a vid on youtube of comedian Gilbert Godfried doing a dramatic reading of some passages. It's hilarious not just because of the way Gilbert reads it (he does it rather straight), but because the writing itself.
Darn, I could only find short clips of it. A deeper search brought up vids that have since been removed. |
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We will readily kill people as a punishment even if they want to live, but we won't have mercy on the suffering by helping them die even if they want to leave.
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Schultz
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« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2012, 10:15:53 AM » |
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There's a vid on youtube of comedian Gilbert Godfried doing a dramatic reading of some passages. It's hilarious not just because of the way Gilbert reads it (he does it rather straight), but because the writing itself.
Darn, I could only find short clips of it. A deeper search brought up vids that have since been removed. NOTE: THIS IS REPLETE WITH GRAPHIC LANGUAGE. |
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« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 10:16:17 AM by Schultz »
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"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2012, 10:29:09 AM » |
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Lol, thanks (I think) |
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We will readily kill people as a punishment even if they want to live, but we won't have mercy on the suffering by helping them die even if they want to leave.
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Shiny
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Paint It Red
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« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2012, 10:29:52 AM » |
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I accidently clicked this thread from my work computer, hopefully I don't get fired.
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“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”
– St. Ambrose of Milan
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vamrat
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« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2012, 10:32:28 AM » |
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I miss the days when 'romance' in literature meant adventure, like 'Ivanhoe.' Now that's a book.
Ivanhoe sounds like an awesome idea for a romantic novel! Tsar Ivan the Terrible: "What are you doing in Holy Russia, vile woman of the night?!" Hoe: "A girl's gotta work, so you gonna pay or you gonna go away?" Tsar Ivan the Terrible: [hits Hoe with stick] "No one dresses immodestly in front of Ivan the Terrible, Hoe. Now gimme them ducats!" |
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One day we will talk about why people fetishize children, but for now I'll keep on the side of humanity that doesn't think the height of life is a drinking a juice box and eating a tater tot while defecating in their pants.
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LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
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« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2012, 12:16:47 PM » |
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I accidently clicked this thread from my work computer, hopefully I don't get fired.
I don't think you have to worry. The word "porn" doesn't appear in teh URL, so it won't get "flagged". |
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Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
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ZealousZeal
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« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2012, 12:46:50 PM » |
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There's a vid on youtube of comedian Gilbert Godfried doing a dramatic reading of some passages. It's hilarious not just because of the way Gilbert reads it (he does it rather straight), but because the writing itself.
Darn, I could only find short clips of it. A deeper search brought up vids that have since been removed. NOTE: THIS IS REPLETE WITH GRAPHIC LANGUAGE. OMG. I was laughing so hard I couldn't breathe. That was definitely NSFW. |
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There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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dzheremi
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« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2012, 01:52:12 PM » |
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That is the funniest thing I have ever seen. Also: I'm going to throw up.
I'm confused.
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BalmungSama
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« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2012, 07:49:32 AM » |
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From what I've heard, 50 Shades of Grey is extremely explicit, going into bondage and other..... raunchy sexual acts. I don't rrealy get it. From what I knew, "Mom Porn" was pretty much bad romance novels with lots of sex thrown in. This stuff sounds absolutely perverse and makes the previous stuff sound like an especially tame episode of Sesame Street. I don't know much about it, but here's a video of Gilbert Gotfried reading some excerpts. WARNING: Explicit http://www.jest.com/video/174214/gilbert-gottfried-reads-fifty-shades-of-grey |
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-John Eusebio.
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BalmungSama
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« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2012, 07:50:14 AM » |
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Crap. Someone already posted the link. >_<
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-John Eusebio.
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akimori makoto
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« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2012, 08:41:13 AM » |
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. It seems to revolve around a worship of power and wealth. So it is just porn for women? |
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The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
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