Author Topic: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio  (Read 8062 times)

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Offline Maria

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Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« on: May 31, 2012, 11:16:27 PM »
Source: AP

Link: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/EU-Vatican-Scandal/2012/05/28/id/440405?s=al&promo_code=F08F-1

Quote
The probe is actually working on two separate tracks: Vatican magistrates are pursuing the criminal investigation, and Gabriele was arrested as part of that. Separately, Pope Benedict XVI appointed three cardinals to form an investigative commission to look beyond the narrow criminal scope of the leaks.

Read more on Newsmax.com: Pope's Butler Vows to Help Vatican Scandal Probe
Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? Vote Here Now!

I wonder if one of the Trio of Cardinals appointed by Pope Benedict could include one of the co-conspirators.

Vatican politics as usual. Lord have mercy. They really need our prayers as they are so lost.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 11:18:01 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2012, 11:32:52 PM »
Source: AP

Link: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/EU-Vatican-Scandal/2012/05/28/id/440405?s=al&promo_code=F08F-1

Quote
The probe is actually working on two separate tracks: Vatican magistrates are pursuing the criminal investigation, and Gabriele was arrested as part of that. Separately, Pope Benedict XVI appointed three cardinals to form an investigative commission to look beyond the narrow criminal scope of the leaks.

Read more on Newsmax.com: Pope's Butler Vows to Help Vatican Scandal Probe
Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? Vote Here Now!

I wonder if one of the Trio of Cardinals appointed by Pope Benedict could include one of the co-conspirators.

Vatican politics as usual. Lord have mercy. They really need our prayers as they are so lost.



Because 'Byzantine Intrigue' was invented in the West, after all.
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Offline biro

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2012, 11:35:27 PM »
Shhh. Only Westerners do bad things. Don't confuse people. :P
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Offline Maria

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2012, 11:41:26 PM »
Will this turn into a comedy of errors?

Or will it lead to more missing/murdered persons?

Murder in the Vatican? Never.  :police:
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline biro

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2012, 11:42:40 PM »
Will this turn into a comedy of errors?

Or will it lead to more missing/murdered persons?

Murder in the Vatican? Never.  :police:

Yeah, let's just speculate and make vague accusations. That's really what a Christian should be doing.  ???
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2012, 11:42:56 PM »
Will this turn into a comedy of errors?

Or will it lead to more missing/murdered persons?

Murder in the Vatican? Never.  :police:

Sanity from schismatics?  Never.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2012, 11:17:31 AM »
Source: AP

Link: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/EU-Vatican-Scandal/2012/05/28/id/440405?s=al&promo_code=F08F-1

Quote
The probe is actually working on two separate tracks: Vatican magistrates are pursuing the criminal investigation, and Gabriele was arrested as part of that. Separately, Pope Benedict XVI appointed three cardinals to form an investigative commission to look beyond the narrow criminal scope of the leaks.

Read more on Newsmax.com: Pope's Butler Vows to Help Vatican Scandal Probe
Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? Vote Here Now!

I wonder if one of the Trio of Cardinals appointed by Pope Benedict could include one of the co-conspirators.

Vatican politics as usual. Lord have mercy. They really need our prayers as they are so lost.



Lost???  Really??  Fallen and sinful, perhaps, just like the rest of us and even some Orthodox ( :-*), but....lost?

Where there are humans and power structures, there is politics, intrigue, and sin--no matter where it occurs. 

Besides, it does make "interesting" soap opera  ;D!

And we would *all* benefit from each others' prayers.
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Offline biro

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2012, 11:18:45 AM »
Shhh. The Pope doesn't have time to meet with officials and go to Mass and stuff like that. He has to plan more nefarious plots.  ;) :D
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2012, 11:26:32 AM »
Shhh. The Pope doesn't have time to meet with officials and go to Mass and stuff like that. He has to plan more nefarious plots.  ;) :D

You know, I *keep* trying to get an audience with him.  Now I know why it's so difficult and why he's always unavailable.  Thanks for clarifying!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Offline Maria

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2012, 11:33:43 AM »
Shhh. The Pope doesn't have time to meet with officials and go to Mass and stuff like that. He has to plan more nefarious plots.  ;) :D

You know, I *keep* trying to get an audience with him.  Now I know why it's so difficult and why he's always unavailable.  Thanks for clarifying!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Well, there is that saying (cannot remember the exact words) that bad press is better than no press.

Do you think the Pope likes this publicity? Would it increase the chances that people will convert to Catholicism, especially if the Pope can clean up the mess, and appear as a Knight in shining armor?
 :angel:
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline J Michael

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2012, 11:37:38 AM »
Shhh. The Pope doesn't have time to meet with officials and go to Mass and stuff like that. He has to plan more nefarious plots.  ;) :D

You know, I *keep* trying to get an audience with him.  Now I know why it's so difficult and why he's always unavailable.  Thanks for clarifying!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Well, there is that saying (cannot remember the exact words) that bad press is better than no press.

Do you think the Pope likes this publicity? Would it increase the chances that people will convert to Catholicism, especially if the Pope can clean up the mess, and appear as a Knight in shining armor?
 :angel:

Well, I can't speak for him, but I'd *guess* he dislikes bad publicity, even if it is good publicity.  And I doubt, again not being able to speak for him or read his mind, that he's not particularly interested in appearing as any kind of knight, unless it's perhaps a Knight of Columbus  :angel:.
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2012, 01:27:55 PM »
The Pope has done some very bad things. For starters, thousands of people in Africa now have HIV or have died from HIV because he lied to them about contraceptives, saying that condoms would make things worse.

Offline Maria

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2012, 02:09:44 PM »
The Pope has done some very bad things. For starters, thousands of people in Africa now have HIV or have died from HIV because he lied to them about contraceptives, saying that condoms would make things worse.

As I recall, the Pope did encourage faithfulness to one's spouse and chastity among the unmarried. However, practicing faithfulness, honesty, chastity and purity of heart is not easy for mankind, no matter which jurisdiction or church. Look at the number of Senators and Congressmen in the USA who have failed.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline biro

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2012, 02:44:27 PM »
The Pope has done some very bad things. For starters, thousands of people in Africa now have HIV or have died from HIV because he lied to them about contraceptives, saying that condoms would make things worse.

The Pope made people have sex?

Even the Protestants?

You understand that he believes in virginity until marriage, so condoms don't mean anything to him one way or the other, right?
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2012, 03:16:11 PM »
The Pope has done some very bad things. For starters, thousands of people in Africa now have HIV or have died from HIV because he lied to them about contraceptives, saying that condoms would make things worse.

So the Pope, that bad, lying, evil doer of *very bad things* took away from all those people their free will and their personal responsibility for their lives?  Wowzer!!  Now, *that's* power, ain't it? 

I suppose that next you'll be calling him, along with the likes of Jack Chick and other such warm, cuddly creatures, The ANTICHRIST, eh?
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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2012, 03:20:44 PM »
The Pope has done some very bad things. For starters, thousands of people in Africa now have HIV or have died from HIV because he lied to them about contraceptives, saying that condoms would make things worse.

So the Pope, that bad, lying, evil doer of *very bad things* took away from all those people their free will and their personal responsibility for their lives?  Wowzer!!  Now, *that's* power, ain't it? 

I suppose that next you'll be calling him, along with the likes of Jack Chick and other such warm, cuddly creatures, The ANTICHRIST, eh?

Isn't Pope Benedict to be the last Pope?

If so, could the next one be the ANTICHRIST?

Could that be the reason why the Cardinals are involved in this intrigue?

Sounds like a storyline for a novel.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2012, 03:24:00 PM »
Quote
Isn't Pope Benedict to be the last Pope?
No. If you are refering to the papal prophesy of St. Malachy, there will be Peter the Roman.

Quote
f so, could the next one be the ANTICHRIST?
Benedict is not the antichrist. I disagree with him on almost everything, but he is not the antichrist.

Quote
Could that be the reason why the Cardinals are involved in this intrigue?
Its nothing new. Whether they be Cardinals, Popes, Patriarchs, or lay people we are all human and not perfect. Satan attacks us all.

PP
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2012, 03:32:17 PM »


He lied to the Africans and gave them false information about sex in hopes of promoting his own religious views on them. But it backfired and as a result many of them contracted HIV because of his lies. You mention that these people have free will to decide for themselves and it is true, they do. But lying to them did nothing to help this; it only made it worse. People were going to fornicate either way, and maybe if the Pope had not lied to them, then they would have used condoms and would not have contracted HIV, whereas now because of the Pope's lies, they have contracted it. The Pope is responsible for thousands of cases of HIV now for his lies. This is just like when parents lie to their children and only teach them abstinence in hopes of them staying abstinent; it does NOT work. If people want sex they will get it either way. Instead of trying to force your idealogy on people who will not listen to it, you should at least try to educate the people in hopes of them not contracting diseases.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 03:33:44 PM by JamesR »

Offline biro

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2012, 03:33:26 PM »
No, he isn't.
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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2012, 03:34:33 PM »
Quote from: Maria

Isn't Pope Benedict to be the last Pope?

If so, could the next one be the ANTICHRIST?


Oh, my God.

Some people will believe anything.

I've got to find something better to do with my life.  ::)
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2012, 03:35:05 PM »
No, he isn't.

If it were not for his lies that condoms would make things worse, then we would have seen less cases of HIV. Those Africans were only obeying him by not using condoms and look where that got them; they now have HIV.

Offline Maria

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2012, 03:37:32 PM »


He lied to the Africans and gave them false information about sex in hopes of promoting his own religious views on them. But it backfired and as a result many of them contracted HIV because of his lies. You mention that these people have free will to decide for themselves and it is true, they do. But lying to them did nothing to help this; it only made it worse. People were going to fornicate either way, and maybe if the Pope had not lied to them, then they would have used condoms and would not have contracted HIV, whereas now because of the Pope's lies, they have contracted it. The Pope is responsible for thousands of cases of HIV now for his lies. This is just like when parents lie to their children and only teach them abstinence in hopes of them staying abstinent; it does NOT work. If people want sex they will get it either way. Instead of trying to force your idealogy on people who will not listen to it, you should at least try to educate the people in hopes of them not contracting diseases.

People have free will.

The Pope should not be blamed if a man choses to drive a truck and then fornicate with every woman he encounters on his routes. Then he returns home with AIDS and pass that on to his wife and unborn child. Shame on those men. This story was printed in a Caritas letter seeking money to care for the innocent wives and their children who had contracted AIDS in this way.

BTW: If a married man were to wear condoms suddenly, wouldn't that be a clue that he had been unfaithful? Would not this make the wife suspicious?

The Pope nor the Patriarch is to blame for those who blatantly sin and violate the laws of God.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 03:43:01 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2012, 03:39:10 PM »
No, he isn't.

If it were not for his lies that condoms would make things worse, then we would have seen less cases of HIV. Those Africans were only obeying him by not using condoms and look where that got them; they now have HIV.

Obey?

He says not to have sex before marriage.

You are really determined to grind your axe.
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2012, 03:40:52 PM »
No, he isn't.

If it were not for his lies that condoms would make things worse, then we would have seen less cases of HIV. Those Africans were only obeying him by not using condoms and look where that got them; they now have HIV.
The Pope had nothing to do with it.

What happened is you have a bucket load of people all having promiscuous sex with each other. It had nothing to do with the Pope. Hell, Russia has one of the highest AIDS rates in Europe, and I can pretty much guarantee papal intrusion had nothing to do with that either.


Blaming the Pope for AIDS in Africa is about the same silliness as blaming Chinese forced abortions on Americans.


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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2012, 03:43:55 PM »

If the Pope knew that people were going to fornicate either way--which they obviously were--and he lied to them, giving them false information, then he is partially responsible for what happened. Instead of telling them that condoms would make things worse, he should have told them that while he does not approve of fornication, if they are going to fornicate they should at least use condoms so that they will not contract and spread HIV. The Pope chose to do the former and look where that got everybody; not only did they fornicate but they now have HIV. People keep saying that the Africans have free-will, and they do, but they are not as educated and privileged as us first-worlders are. They are not as aware of what the affects their actions will have on people and what will happen; thus they are highly susceptible to being decieved. And that is exactly what the Pope did; not only did he lie and cause them to contract HIV, but he took advantage of a less fortunate people who truly trusted him.


I'm not blaming the Pope for HIV in Africa; I'm blaming him for a particular case of HIV in Africa where he caused more cases of HIV to happen because of his lies, whereas if he had told them the truth about contraceptives then maybe there would have been less cases of HIV.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 03:45:48 PM by JamesR »

Offline Maria

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2012, 03:44:47 PM »
How topics will wander! Sheesh!

What ever happened with Vatileaks, the butler, and the intrigue among the Cardinals at the Vatican?

James, could you kindly start a new thread in the free-for-all section regarding the Pope and condoms in Africa? I am sure that this old topic will die a quick death.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 03:46:16 PM by Maria »
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Offline biro

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2012, 03:45:55 PM »
How topics will wander! Sheesh!

What ever happened with Vatileaks, the butler, and the intrigue among the Cardinals at the Vatican?

Shhhh! Don't get him started.  ;)

James - I guess I don't agree. You are entitled to your opinion, though.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2012, 03:52:42 PM »
The Pope has done some very bad things. For starters, thousands of people in Africa now have HIV or have died from HIV because he lied to them about contraceptives, saying that condoms would make things worse.

So the Pope, that bad, lying, evil doer of *very bad things* took away from all those people their free will and their personal responsibility for their lives?  Wowzer!!  Now, *that's* power, ain't it? 

I suppose that next you'll be calling him, along with the likes of Jack Chick and other such warm, cuddly creatures, The ANTICHRIST, eh?

Isn't Pope Benedict to be the last Pope?

If so, could the next one be the ANTICHRIST?

Could that be the reason why the Cardinals are involved in this intrigue?

Sounds like a storyline for a novel.

Written by an Orthodox author?  ;D

Or maybe Dan Brown.
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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2012, 03:56:32 PM »
No, he isn't.

If it were not for his lies that condoms would make things worse, then we would have seen less cases of HIV. Those Africans were only obeying him by not using condoms and look where that got them; they now have HIV.

Obey?

He says not to have sex before marriage.

You are really determined to grind your axe.

Seems to be getting sharper by the minute.  The axe, that is.

Just what we need here--more axe grinding  ::) ::) ::) ::).
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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2012, 04:03:12 PM »
How topics will wander! Sheesh!

What ever happened with Vatileaks, the butler, and the intrigue among the Cardinals at the Vatican?

James, could you kindly start a new thread in the free-for-all section regarding the Pope and condoms in Africa? I am sure that this old topic will die a quick death.

Oh great  ::)--he did it.  Well, at least we can get back to the novel, now  ;D.  Think there'll be a movie to follow  :laugh:
"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline biro

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2012, 04:03:42 PM »
 :D

We'll see.
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2012, 04:25:10 PM »
How topics will wander! Sheesh!

What ever happened with Vatileaks, the butler, and the intrigue among the Cardinals at the Vatican?

James, could you kindly start a new thread in the free-for-all section regarding the Pope and condoms in Africa? I am sure that this old topic will die a quick death.

Oh great  ::)--he did it.  Well, at least we can get back to the novel, now  ;D.  Think there'll be a movie to follow  :laugh:

That depends on whether or not Tom Hanks is busy.
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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2012, 04:35:00 PM »
he should have told them that while he does not approve of fornication, if they are going to fornicate they should at least use condoms so that they will not contract and spread HIV.

Why does that job fall to the Pope?
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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2012, 04:36:17 PM »
Will this turn into a comedy of errors?

Or will it lead to more missing/murdered persons?

Murder in the Vatican? Never.  :police:

You sound like you've been reading Buc Macfarlane Jr.'s Pierced by a Sword.
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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2012, 04:49:07 PM »
He lied to the Africans and gave them false information about sex in hopes of promoting his own religious views on them. But it backfired and as a result many of them contracted HIV because of his lies. You mention that these people have free will to decide for themselves and it is true, they do. But lying to them did nothing to help this; it only made it worse. People were going to fornicate either way, and maybe if the Pope had not lied to them, then they would have used condoms and would not have contracted HIV, whereas now because of the Pope's lies, they have contracted it. The Pope is responsible for thousands of cases of HIV now for his lies. This is just like when parents lie to their children and only teach them abstinence in hopes of them staying abstinent; it does NOT work. If people want sex they will get it either way. Instead of trying to force your idealogy on people who will not listen to it, you should at least try to educate the people in hopes of them not contracting diseases.

1. Moral messages don't come down to the lowest common denominator.  Jesus didn't tell the adulteress to slow down how much she slept around; He said, "Go and sin no more."  Mercy is loving people when they fall short of God's standards.

2 The Pope had nothing to do with the spread of HIV/AIDS in Africa.  Prevailing cultures that encouraged not just polygamy but also having girlfriends on the side, and which encouraged unprotected casual sex, and the spreading drug culture among the upper middle class all contributed; telling people to not have sex did not.

Wake up: You can still contract HIV & other STD's, AND get someone pregnant while using condoms.  I personally know two couples which had babies while using condoms as contraceptives.  THE ONLY WAY TO FULLY PREVENT STD's AND OUT OF WEDLOCK PREGNANCIES IS TO NOT HAVE SEX UNTIL YOU'RE MARRIED, AND TO ONLY HAVE SEX WITH YOUR SPOUSE. (The only people for whom this may not work are those who contracted STDs either in utero or during their birth.)

It grinds my gears that people say, "Well, you cannot stop people from having sex out of wedlock, so just tell them about the condoms and be ok with it," but they are fully against, say, having open at-will fighting in the street, defecating in public as the need arises, or forming social packs to exert dominance over one another, which are also parts of animal behavior that we are drawn to because of our fallen nature.  We, as Christians, encourage people to the highest calling - to be true humans, like our Lord.  So while I hope everyone who decides to have casual sex, or any other sex outside of wedlock, uses condoms, the message is always abstinence, chastity, and patience - that is the only way to be 100% sure of physical purity (and spiritual purity).
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 04:49:24 PM by Fr. George »
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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2012, 04:52:29 PM »
he should have told them that while he does not approve of fornication, if they are going to fornicate they should at least use condoms so that they will not contract and spread HIV.

Why does that job fall to the Pope?

Because JamesR thinks it should?
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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2012, 04:57:21 PM »
he should have told them that while he does not approve of fornication, if they are going to fornicate they should at least use condoms so that they will not contract and spread HIV.

Why does that job fall to the Pope?

Because JamesR thinks it should?
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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2012, 05:06:26 PM »
he should have told them that while he does not approve of fornication, if they are going to fornicate they should at least use condoms so that they will not contract and spread HIV.

Why does that job fall to the Pope?

Because JamesR thinks it should?


LOL!  :laugh: :laugh:

(Shhh....don't tell anyone, but *all* Catholic priests and bishops are Sith Lords by night.  The rest of us mere lay people are vicious and depraved Sith warriors, out to conquer the universe and subdue and enslave all creatures, especially the Orthodox  :laugh: :laugh:)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 05:21:29 PM by J Michael »
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Offline WeldeMikael

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Re: Vatileaks, the Butler, and the Vatican Trio
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2012, 05:54:24 PM »
He lied to the Africans and gave them false information about sex in hopes of promoting his own religious views on them. But it backfired and as a result many of them contracted HIV because of his lies. You mention that these people have free will to decide for themselves and it is true, they do. But lying to them did nothing to help this; it only made it worse. People were going to fornicate either way, and maybe if the Pope had not lied to them, then they would have used condoms and would not have contracted HIV, whereas now because of the Pope's lies, they have contracted it. The Pope is responsible for thousands of cases of HIV now for his lies. This is just like when parents lie to their children and only teach them abstinence in hopes of them staying abstinent; it does NOT work. If people want sex they will get it either way. Instead of trying to force your idealogy on people who will not listen to it, you should at least try to educate the people in hopes of them not contracting diseases.

1. Moral messages don't come down to the lowest common denominator.  Jesus didn't tell the adulteress to slow down how much she slept around; He said, "Go and sin no more."  Mercy is loving people when they fall short of God's standards.

2 The Pope had nothing to do with the spread of HIV/AIDS in Africa.  Prevailing cultures that encouraged not just polygamy but also having girlfriends on the side, and which encouraged unprotected casual sex, and the spreading drug culture among the upper middle class all contributed; telling people to not have sex did not.

Wake up: You can still contract HIV & other STD's, AND get someone pregnant while using condoms.  I personally know two couples which had babies while using condoms as contraceptives.  THE ONLY WAY TO FULLY PREVENT STD's AND OUT OF WEDLOCK PREGNANCIES IS TO NOT HAVE SEX UNTIL YOU'RE MARRIED, AND TO ONLY HAVE SEX WITH YOUR SPOUSE. (The only people for whom this may not work are those who contracted STDs either in utero or during their birth.)

It grinds my gears that people say, "Well, you cannot stop people from having sex out of wedlock, so just tell them about the condoms and be ok with it," but they are fully against, say, having open at-will fighting in the street, defecating in public as the need arises, or forming social packs to exert dominance over one another, which are also parts of animal behavior that we are drawn to because of our fallen nature.  We, as Christians, encourage people to the highest calling - to be true humans, like our Lord.  So while I hope everyone who decides to have casual sex, or any other sex outside of wedlock, uses condoms, the message is always abstinence, chastity, and patience - that is the only way to be 100% sure of physical purity (and spiritual purity).



Well said  :D