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Poll
Question: Can I work at the beer store?
Yes - 31 (77.5%)
No - 2 (5%)
It depends - 1 (2.5%)
Ask Your Priest - 6 (15%)
Total Voters: 40

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BalmungSama
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« on: May 31, 2012, 03:07:35 AM »

I recently became a catechumen. I thank God for that, even if I'm doing a horrible job of it myself (for another thread). I want to be a part of the True Church.

But my question right now involves work. I may get a job at The Beer Store. It's pretty much where people in Canada buy beer, since most of our alcohol is government controlled. I know that we have nothing against alcohol per se. Being drunk is a sin, but a small buzz is fine. I myself enjoy a shot or two of whiskey from time to time. Never had much of a taste for beer.

Anyways, I'm wondering; can I work there, should I get the job?

I asked a question like that regarding getting drunk to a friend of mine studying to be a priest. I brought up the miracle where Jesus had turned water into wine, and how it was the finest wine at the party. Normally they saved the worst wine for last, for when everyone's too drunk to know the difference. I used that to say that getting drunk must be fine, so long as what someone does while drunk is not sinful. He countered by citing a passage condemning drunkards and those who get drunk, and pointed out that only the ones who were still sober at the party would be able to appreciate the wine Jesus made.

My point with that passage is this; much like how Jesus gave people wine, something that isn't itself sinful, and people merely chose whether or not to sin with it, would I be able to sell beer the same way?

I know I probably should be asking my priest, but I don't want to come off as one of those who feels the need to call him up for every question.
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« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2012, 03:26:56 AM »

Orthodox (and, indeed, Roman Catholic) monasteries have been making wine (and, in western Europe, also brewing beer) for many centuries. If it's OK for monks to make wine (and it's by no means all intended for sacramental use) and sell it to support themselves, why should there be a problem with someone working at a beer store?
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« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2012, 03:32:26 AM »

Not much different from working in a convenience store, which I've done since becoming Orthodox. As long as the store owner didn't ask me to sell porn, I didn't see a problem with working there, at least until I could find a better job. (I once threatened to quit my job at a 7-Eleven because the owner wanted to sell porn; in response to my threat and a customer complaint, he relented and sent the porn back to its supplier.)
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 03:33:32 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
BalmungSama
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« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2012, 04:33:06 AM »

Orthodox (and, indeed, Roman Catholic) monasteries have been making wine (and, in western Europe, also brewing beer) for many centuries. If it's OK for monks to make wine (and it's by no means all intended for sacramental use) and sell it to support themselves, why should there be a problem with someone working at a beer store?

Huh. I had no idea that they sold the wine and beer they made. ...I probably should have done a bit more research before coming to a forum. Seems like it would've been pretty easy to find. Thank you so much. Smiley

Not much different from working in a convenience store, which I've done since becoming Orthodox. As long as the store owner didn't ask me to sell porn, I didn't see a problem with working there, at least until I could find a better job. (I once threatened to quit my job at a 7-Eleven because the owner wanted to sell porn; in response to my threat and a customer complaint, he relented and sent the porn back to its supplier.)

Bless you, Peter. Seriously, way to have a back bone on such an important issue.
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« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2012, 04:52:36 AM »

OK, I drink beer during non fasting periods, so some people may label me a hypocrite for saying this. But I would recommend that you not work at the "beer store." Alcoholism is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Even though moderate alcohol consumption is indeed a Christian liberty, I don't think we should facilitate the sale and spread of any product that could potentially be addictive and destructive.

I suggest you try to find employment elsewhere, even if it means less pay. Consider this: how would you feel about the person who sold alcohol to the drunk driver that killed your loved one? Sure, it's ultimately the drunk driver's fault, but perhaps he would not have gotten drunk if no one had been there to sell him the alcohol. Yes, I know the argument, "Well he'd just buy it from somebody else." But as Orthodox Christians we should be above reproach and do our best not to contribute to evil.

If you have to ask the question, then obviously there is some doubt in your mind. When in doubt, err on the side of caution. Just my two cents, FWIW.

(BTW, props to Peter for taking a stand on the sale of pornography. I think that's outstanding. Seriously!)



Selam
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« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2012, 05:05:09 AM »

Selam, you're right. I do have doubt. And I'd rather work somewhere else anyway. Preferably some place tech-related. It's something I know, enjoy, and my employee discount would be good for something (again, really don't like beer). And your input is extremely appreciated. But that said, I just wanted to say that I don't feel your drunk driver comparison is a fair one. Drug stores sell all sorts of things that can be addictive and/or impair driving. Your analogy sounds kind of like saying we shouldn't sell butcher knives just in case someone decides to out the Halloween movies.
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« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2012, 05:23:07 AM »

Selam, you're right. I do have doubt. And I'd rather work somewhere else anyway. Preferably some place tech-related. It's something I know, enjoy, and my employee discount would be good for something (again, really don't like beer). And your input is extremely appreciated. But that said, I just wanted to say that I don't feel your drunk driver comparison is a fair one. Drug stores sell all sorts of things that can be addictive and/or impair driving. Your analogy sounds kind of like saying we shouldn't sell butcher knives just in case someone decides to out the Halloween movies.


Yes, although I don't quite see alcohol and daily kitchen utensils as analagous, I do nevertheless understand your point. It's a tricky issue. But I'm glad that you are deciding to err on the side of caution. You will never be judged harshly for making decisions based upon not wanting to contribute to another's suffering.

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« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2012, 10:25:20 AM »

OK, I drink beer during non fasting periods, so some people may label me a hypocrite for saying this. But I would recommend that you not work at the "beer store." Alcoholism is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Even though moderate alcohol consumption is indeed a Christian liberty, I don't think we should facilitate the sale and spread of any product that could potentially be addictive and destructive.

I suggest you try to find employment elsewhere, even if it means less pay. Consider this: how would you feel about the person who sold alcohol to the drunk driver that killed your loved one? Sure, it's ultimately the drunk driver's fault, but perhaps he would not have gotten drunk if no one had been there to sell him the alcohol. Yes, I know the argument, "Well he'd just buy it from somebody else." But as Orthodox Christians we should be above reproach and do our best not to contribute to evil.

If you have to ask the question, then obviously there is some doubt in your mind. When in doubt, err on the side of caution. Just my two cents, FWIW.

(BTW, props to Peter for taking a stand on the sale of pornography. I think that's outstanding. Seriously!)



Selam
I'm not sure what the laws are in Canada, but in many US states it's illegal to sell alcohol to anyone who's visibly intoxicated, and a store can be held liable for anything the drunk does in his drunkenness (e.g., drunk driving) for violating that law. I've had to call the police (911) a few times to report someone who drove out of the parking lot after I refused to sell him beer because he appeared drunk.

Also, your logic would rule out someone working in a pharmacy, since many pharmaceuticals can be addictive and destructive, particularly pain killers like oxycontin.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 10:27:38 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2012, 10:28:32 AM »

Orthodox (and, indeed, Roman Catholic) monasteries have been making wine (and, in western Europe, also brewing beer) for many centuries. If it's OK for monks to make wine (and it's by no means all intended for sacramental use) and sell it to support themselves, why should there be a problem with someone working at a beer store?

Orthodox beer? Where?
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« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2012, 10:39:16 AM »

OK, I drink beer during non fasting periods, so some people may label me a hypocrite for saying this. But I would recommend that you not work at the "beer store." Alcoholism is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Even though moderate alcohol consumption is indeed a Christian liberty, I don't think we should facilitate the sale and spread of any product that could potentially be addictive and destructive.

I suggest you try to find employment elsewhere, even if it means less pay. Consider this: how would you feel about the person who sold alcohol to the drunk driver that killed your loved one? Sure, it's ultimately the drunk driver's fault, but perhaps he would not have gotten drunk if no one had been there to sell him the alcohol. Yes, I know the argument, "Well he'd just buy it from somebody else." But as Orthodox Christians we should be above reproach and do our best not to contribute to evil.

If you have to ask the question, then obviously there is some doubt in your mind. When in doubt, err on the side of caution. Just my two cents, FWIW.

(BTW, props to Peter for taking a stand on the sale of pornography. I think that's outstanding. Seriously!)



Selam

Any product is potentially addictive and destructive; food stuff or otherwise.
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« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2012, 10:40:13 AM »

Orthodox (and, indeed, Roman Catholic) monasteries have been making wine (and, in western Europe, also brewing beer) for many centuries. If it's OK for monks to make wine (and it's by no means all intended for sacramental use) and sell it to support themselves, why should there be a problem with someone working at a beer store?

Orthodox beer? Where?

I think she may have just been referring to Catholic monasteries, with regard to the beer,
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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2012, 11:03:55 AM »

A general rule of thumb for life decisions, IMHO, is that if you have doubts or reservations or feel uneasy about something  - don't do it.
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« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2012, 11:33:07 AM »

If it was an upscale wine distributor, would you have the same reservations?
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« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2012, 11:34:26 AM »

I wouldn't have a problem with it.
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« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2012, 12:48:22 PM »

OK, I drink beer during non fasting periods, so some people may label me a hypocrite for saying this. But I would recommend that you not work at the "beer store." Alcoholism is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Even though moderate alcohol consumption is indeed a Christian liberty, I don't think we should facilitate the sale and spread of any product that could potentially be addictive and destructive.

I suggest you try to find employment elsewhere, even if it means less pay. Consider this: how would you feel about the person who sold alcohol to the drunk driver that killed your loved one? Sure, it's ultimately the drunk driver's fault, but perhaps he would not have gotten drunk if no one had been there to sell him the alcohol. Yes, I know the argument, "Well he'd just buy it from somebody else." But as Orthodox Christians we should be above reproach and do our best not to contribute to evil.

If you have to ask the question, then obviously there is some doubt in your mind. When in doubt, err on the side of caution. Just my two cents, FWIW.

(BTW, props to Peter for taking a stand on the sale of pornography. I think that's outstanding. Seriously!)is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families.



Selam
I'm not sure what the laws are in Canada, but in many US states it's illegal to sell alcohol to anyone who's visibly intoxicated, and a store can be held liable for anything the drunk does in his drunkenness (e.g., drunk driving) for violating that law. I've had to call the police (911) a few times to report someone who drove out of the parking lot after I refused to sell him beer because he appeared drunk.

Also, your logic would rule out someone working in a pharmacy, since many pharmaceuticals can be addictive and destructive, particularly pain killers like oxycontin.

His logic would also rule out selling food--because gluttony is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Or selling internet service, or indeed doing anything to maintain its infrastructure, as there has never been a better or more convenient tool for the pornography and the exercise of lust in the history of the human race. And while we're there, what about cell phones, since texting while driving has been proven to be at least as deadly as drinking while driving. Teach science and someone will use what you've taught to attack theism.

Human beings are screwed up. We can take just about anything, no more how innocent in itself (or even good--the reason, EO switched to the one spoon for communion is because people where taking the consecrated Body of Christ home and doing who-knows-what blasphemous acts with it) and turn it into an opportunity or tool for sin. If you want to never do or provide anything that someone else might use in a sinful or harmful way, your only real option is to withdraw from human commerce (and society) entirely. And in fact, there are hermits who do just that. But if that's not your calling, if you have to live in the world, there is simply no way to apply a rule that you can't sell anything which another human being *might* use in a sinful or harmful way.
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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2012, 03:15:47 PM »

Wine comes from the devil. That's in the Bible. So, pretty easy answer in my opinion.
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« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2012, 03:21:31 PM »

Wine comes from the devil. That's in the Bible. So, pretty easy answer in my opinion.
So why did you vote Yes? Wink
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« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2012, 04:01:05 PM »

Wine comes from the devil. That's in the Bible. So, pretty easy answer in my opinion.

I know I should not question Lord Sauron, as only destruction awaits those who defy him, but I gotta say:
Not sure what passage you're referring to, but considering Jesus both made and drank wine, and wine is permitted in the Church (except on fasting days), I'm pretty sure you're missing something there.

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« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2012, 07:11:36 PM »

Wine comes from the devil. That's in the Bible. So, pretty easy answer in my opinion.

I know I should not question Lord Sauron, as only destruction awaits those who defy him, but I gotta say:
Not sure what passage you're referring to, but considering Jesus both made and drank wine, and wine is permitted in the Church (except on fasting days), I'm pretty sure you're missing something there.


Or else he's just employing some rhetorical irony here.
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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2012, 01:43:33 AM »

Orthodox (and, indeed, Roman Catholic) monasteries have been making wine (and, in western Europe, also brewing beer) for many centuries. If it's OK for monks to make wine (and it's by no means all intended for sacramental use) and sell it to support themselves, why should there be a problem with someone working at a beer store?

Huh. I had no idea that they sold the wine and beer they made. ...I probably should have done a bit more research before coming to a forum. Seems like it would've been pretty easy to find. Thank you so much. Smiley

Not much different from working in a convenience store, which I've done since becoming Orthodox. As long as the store owner didn't ask me to sell porn, I didn't see a problem with working there, at least until I could find a better job. (I once threatened to quit my job at a 7-Eleven because the owner wanted to sell porn; in response to my threat and a customer complaint, he relented and sent the porn back to its supplier.)

Bless you, Peter. Seriously, way to have a back bone on such an important issue.

Seriously?  Trappist monks make the best beer on the face of the Earth. You heard Belgium beers being good? Thats because the Breweries in Belgium copied the various types of beer from the Monks. Go get a Chimay Blue, a Rochefort 8 or 10, a Westmalle Tripple, or Orval or Achel, or La Trappe (Westvelenten you wont be able to find most likely and if so for a huge premium). All made by monks.
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« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2012, 01:54:39 AM »

Wine comes from the devil. That's in the Bible. So, pretty easy answer in my opinion.

Polygamy is in the Bible. Lets vote on that one too. [click me for mood music] (My answer is in a southern twang, is yours too?)
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« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2012, 02:03:55 AM »

Orthodox (and, indeed, Roman Catholic) monasteries have been making wine (and, in western Europe, also brewing beer) for many centuries. If it's OK for monks to make wine (and it's by no means all intended for sacramental use) and sell it to support themselves, why should there be a problem with someone working at a beer store?

Huh. I had no idea that they sold the wine and beer they made. ...I probably should have done a bit more research before coming to a forum. Seems like it would've been pretty easy to find. Thank you so much. Smiley

Not much different from working in a convenience store, which I've done since becoming Orthodox. As long as the store owner didn't ask me to sell porn, I didn't see a problem with working there, at least until I could find a better job. (I once threatened to quit my job at a 7-Eleven because the owner wanted to sell porn; in response to my threat and a customer complaint, he relented and sent the porn back to its supplier.)

Bless you, Peter. Seriously, way to have a back bone on such an important issue.

Seriously?  Trappist monks make the best beer on the face of the Earth. You heard Belgium beers being good? Thats because the Breweries in Belgium copied the various types of beer from the Monks. Go get a Chimay Blue, a Rochefort 8 or 10, a Westmalle Tripple, or Orval o
r Achel, or La Trappe (Westvelenten you wont be able to find most likely and if so for a huge premium). All made by monks.
What German breweries do you like (if any)?
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« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2012, 02:42:27 AM »

Orthodox (and, indeed, Roman Catholic) monasteries have been making wine (and, in western Europe, also brewing beer) for many centuries. If it's OK for monks to make wine (and it's by no means all intended for sacramental use) and sell it to support themselves, why should there be a problem with someone working at a beer store?

Huh. I had no idea that they sold the wine and beer they made. ...I probably should have done a bit more research before coming to a forum. Seems like it would've been pretty easy to find. Thank you so much. Smiley

Not much different from working in a convenience store, which I've done since becoming Orthodox. As long as the store owner didn't ask me to sell porn, I didn't see a problem with working there, at least until I could find a better job. (I once threatened to quit my job at a 7-Eleven because the owner wanted to sell porn; in response to my threat and a customer complaint, he relented and sent the porn back to its supplier.)

Bless you, Peter. Seriously, way to have a back bone on such an important issue.

Seriously?  Trappist monks make the best beer on the face of the Earth. You heard Belgium beers being good? Thats because the Breweries in Belgium copied the various types of beer from the Monks. Go get a Chimay Blue, a Rochefort 8 or 10, a Westmalle Tripple, or Orval o
r Achel, or La Trappe (Westvelenten you wont be able to find most likely and if so for a huge premium). All made by monks.
What German breweries do you like (if any)?

I lived in Germany for a while but only visited two or three brauhouses. Lets see, theres the Munchen Hofbrauhaus. Kind of a standard, but their glasses are green which means    it can skunk or degrate easily unfortunately. It does not transport well.  The Schweinfurt and Wurzburg Hofbrauhaus's are good too but you cant pick em up here. Spaten is okay. The Ayinger dopplebock is probably the best there is. Did not drink that until came back here as is the case with all of the beers I state heron after. Anything by Weihenstephaner  is great. Ive tried the premium or original, and it is readily available over here. Got no problem with Warstiener. Kinda have outgrown it though, but unlike American Macros would not hesitate to drink.  Ayinger and Weihenstephaner and Munchen Hofbrauhaus are the big three in my opinion. Get that dopplebock you will thank me. Look for the red and the goats.

On a side note, Great Lakes Dortmunder is world class, as is thier porter, which I am drinking now... better than founders, and thats saying a lot.
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« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2012, 03:03:31 AM »

Orthodox (and, indeed, Roman Catholic) monasteries have been making wine (and, in western Europe, also brewing beer) for many centuries. If it's OK for monks to make wine (and it's by no means all intended for sacramental use) and sell it to support themselves, why should there be a problem with someone working at a beer store?

Huh. I had no idea that they sold the wine and beer they made. ...I probably should have done a bit more research before coming to a forum. Seems like it would've been pretty easy to find. Thank you so much. Smiley

Not much different from working in a convenience store, which I've done since becoming Orthodox. As long as the store owner didn't ask me to sell porn, I didn't see a problem with working there, at least until I could find a better job. (I once threatened to quit my job at a 7-Eleven because the owner wanted to sell porn; in response to my threat and a customer complaint, he relented and sent the porn back to its supplier.)

Bless you, Peter. Seriously, way to have a back bone on such an important issue.

Seriously?  Trappist monks make the best beer on the face of the Earth. You heard Belgium beers being good? Thats because the Breweries in Belgium copied the various types of beer from the Monks. Go get a Chimay Blue, a Rochefort 8 or 10, a Westmalle Tripple, or Orval o
r Achel, or La Trappe (Westvelenten you wont be able to find most likely and if so for a huge premium). All made by monks.
What German breweries do you like (if any)?

I lived in Germany for a while but only visited two or three brauhouses. Lets see, theres the Munchen Hofbrauhaus. Kind of a standard, but their glasses are green which means    it can skunk or degrate easily unfortunately. It does not transport well.  The Schweinfurt and Wurzburg Hofbrauhaus's are good too but you cant pick em up here. Spaten is okay. The Ayinger dopplebock is probably the best there is. Did not drink that until came back here as is the case with all of the beers I state heron after. Anything by Weihenstephaner  is great. Ive tried the premium or original, and it is readily available over here. Got no problem with Warstiener. Kinda have outgrown it though, but unlike American Macros would not hesitate to drink.  Ayinger and Weihenstephaner and Munchen Hofbrauhaus are the big three in my opinion. Get that dopplebock you will thank me. Look for the red and the goats.

On a side note, Great Lakes Dortmunder is world class, as is thier porter, which I am drinking now... better than founders, and thats saying a lot.

I've had Weihenstephaner's doppelbock, but not Ayinger's (in fact, I haven't ever seen a bottle of it, must not have been looking hard enough). I'll have to search for some the next time I go shopping for beer. Thanks for the recommendations.
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« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2012, 03:26:59 AM »

Orthodox (and, indeed, Roman Catholic) monasteries have been making wine (and, in western Europe, also brewing beer) for many centuries. If it's OK for monks to make wine (and it's by no means all intended for sacramental use) and sell it to support themselves, why should there be a problem with someone working at a beer store?

Huh. I had no idea that they sold the wine and beer they made. ...I probably should have done a bit more research before coming to a forum. Seems like it would've been pretty easy to find. Thank you so much. Smiley

Not much different from working in a convenience store, which I've done since becoming Orthodox. As long as the store owner didn't ask me to sell porn, I didn't see a problem with working there, at least until I could find a better job. (I once threatened to quit my job at a 7-Eleven because the owner wanted to sell porn; in response to my threat and a customer complaint, he relented and sent the porn back to its supplier.)

Bless you, Peter. Seriously, way to have a back bone on such an important issue.

Seriously?  Trappist monks make the best beer on the face of the Earth. You heard Belgium beers being good? Thats because the Breweries in Belgium copied the various types of beer from the Monks. Go get a Chimay Blue, a Rochefort 8 or 10, a Westmalle Tripple, or Orval o
r Achel, or La Trappe (Westvelenten you wont be able to find most likely and if so for a huge premium). All made by monks.
What German breweries do you like (if any)?

I lived in Germany for a while but only visited two or three brauhouses. Lets see, theres the Munchen Hofbrauhaus. Kind of a standard, but their glasses are green which means    it can skunk or degrate easily unfortunately. It does not transport well.  The Schweinfurt and Wurzburg Hofbrauhaus's are good too but you cant pick em up here. Spaten is okay. The Ayinger dopplebock is probably the best there is. Did not drink that until came back here as is the case with all of the beers I state heron after. Anything by Weihenstephaner  is great. Ive tried the premium or original, and it is readily available over here. Got no problem with Warstiener. Kinda have outgrown it though, but unlike American Macros would not hesitate to drink.  Ayinger and Weihenstephaner and Munchen Hofbrauhaus are the big three in my opinion. Get that dopplebock you will thank me. Look for the red and the goats.

On a side note, Great Lakes Dortmunder is world class, as is thier porter, which I am drinking now... better than founders, and thats saying a lot.

I've had Weihenstephaner's doppelbock, but not Ayinger's (in fact, I haven't ever seen a bottle of it, must not have been looking hard enough). I'll have to search for some the next time I go shopping for beer. Thanks for the recommendations.

NP. Ayingers is something special. Little pricey but worth it.
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« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2012, 04:17:24 AM »

OK, I drink beer during non fasting periods, so some people may label me a hypocrite for saying this. But I would recommend that you not work at the "beer store." Alcoholism is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Even though moderate alcohol consumption is indeed a Christian liberty, I don't think we should facilitate the sale and spread of any product that could potentially be addictive and destructive.

I suggest you try to find employment elsewhere, even if it means less pay. Consider this: how would you feel about the person who sold alcohol to the drunk driver that killed your loved one? Sure, it's ultimately the drunk driver's fault, but perhaps he would not have gotten drunk if no one had been there to sell him the alcohol. Yes, I know the argument, "Well he'd just buy it from somebody else." But as Orthodox Christians we should be above reproach and do our best not to contribute to evil.

If you have to ask the question, then obviously there is some doubt in your mind. When in doubt, err on the side of caution. Just my two cents, FWIW.

(BTW, props to Peter for taking a stand on the sale of pornography. I think that's outstanding. Seriously!)



Selam


Also, your logic would rule out someone working in a pharmacy, since many pharmaceuticals can be addictive and destructive, particularly pain killers like oxycontin.


No, because medicine is necessary while alcohol is not. The pharmacist is not responsible for those who abuse medicine that is otherwise quite necessary. While moderate alcohol is not always harmful, it is not necessary. Therein is the difference.



Selam
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« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2012, 04:34:30 AM »

OK, I drink beer during non fasting periods, so some people may label me a hypocrite for saying this. But I would recommend that you not work at the "beer store." Alcoholism is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Even though moderate alcohol consumption is indeed a Christian liberty, I don't think we should facilitate the sale and spread of any product that could potentially be addictive and destructive.

I suggest you try to find employment elsewhere, even if it means less pay. Consider this: how would you feel about the person who sold alcohol to the drunk driver that killed your loved one? Sure, it's ultimately the drunk driver's fault, but perhaps he would not have gotten drunk if no one had been there to sell him the alcohol. Yes, I know the argument, "Well he'd just buy it from somebody else." But as Orthodox Christians we should be above reproach and do our best not to contribute to evil.

If you have to ask the question, then obviously there is some doubt in your mind. When in doubt, err on the side of caution. Just my two cents, FWIW.

(BTW, props to Peter for taking a stand on the sale of pornography. I think that's outstanding. Seriously!)is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families.



Selam
I'm not sure what the laws are in Canada, but in many US states it's illegal to sell alcohol to anyone who's visibly intoxicated, and a store can be held liable for anything the drunk does in his drunkenness (e.g., drunk driving) for violating that law. I've had to call the police (911) a few times to report someone who drove out of the parking lot after I refused to sell him beer because he appeared drunk.

Also, your logic would rule out someone working in a pharmacy, since many pharmaceuticals can be addictive and destructive, particularly pain killers like oxycontin.

His logic would also rule out selling food--because gluttony is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Or selling internet service, or indeed doing anything to maintain its infrastructure, as there has never been a better or more convenient tool for the pornography and the exercise of lust in the history of the human race. And while we're there, what about cell phones, since texting while driving has been proven to be at least as deadly as drinking while driving. Teach science and someone will use what you've taught to attack theism.


Again, I will point out that food is necessary while alcohol is not. So this is a false comaprison. Alcoholic beverages are specifically intended to intoxicate, and even mild consumption of alcohol intoxicates slightly. The purpose of the internet is not to promote pornograpy, although the proliferation of pornography is certainly an unfortunate by product of the internet. And food is essential to our survival, even though many people abuse food. So there is a huge difference between selling a product which is designed to intoxicate and selling food, medicine, or tools and instruments that are quite necessary and essential to our daily lives.

I could turn your logic on its head and argue that it's morally ok to sell pornography since many married couples use porn to "spice up" their marriage. Just because some people abuse pornography doesn't mean those who sell pornography should be held responsible. (But let me clarify that I am not making a moral equivalence between alcohol and pornogrpahy. Alcohol is not evil in and of itself like pornography, and there is no sin in moderate alcohol consumption. However, alcohol is designed to intoxicate, and it is not essential or necessary to our survival or to our daily lives.)

As I said earlier, I enjoy beer during non fasting seasons and rejoice in that Christian liberty. However, I would never sell alcohol since I am aware that I could be contributing to the suffering and misery of others. But that's just my opinion.


Selam
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« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2012, 06:01:23 AM »

OK, I drink beer during non fasting periods, so some people may label me a hypocrite for saying this. But I would recommend that you not work at the "beer store." Alcoholism is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Even though moderate alcohol consumption is indeed a Christian liberty, I don't think we should facilitate the sale and spread of any product that could potentially be addictive and destructive.

I suggest you try to find employment elsewhere, even if it means less pay. Consider this: how would you feel about the person who sold alcohol to the drunk driver that killed your loved one? Sure, it's ultimately the drunk driver's fault, but perhaps he would not have gotten drunk if no one had been there to sell him the alcohol. Yes, I know the argument, "Well he'd just buy it from somebody else." But as Orthodox Christians we should be above reproach and do our best not to contribute to evil.

If you have to ask the question, then obviously there is some doubt in your mind. When in doubt, err on the side of caution. Just my two cents, FWIW.

(BTW, props to Peter for taking a stand on the sale of pornography. I think that's outstanding. Seriously!)is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families.



Selam
I'm not sure what the laws are in Canada, but in many US states it's illegal to sell alcohol to anyone who's visibly intoxicated, and a store can be held liable for anything the drunk does in his drunkenness (e.g., drunk driving) for violating that law. I've had to call the police (911) a few times to report someone who drove out of the parking lot after I refused to sell him beer because he appeared drunk.

Also, your logic would rule out someone working in a pharmacy, since many pharmaceuticals can be addictive and destructive, particularly pain killers like oxycontin.

His logic would also rule out selling food--because gluttony is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Or selling internet service, or indeed doing anything to maintain its infrastructure, as there has never been a better or more convenient tool for the pornography and the exercise of lust in the history of the human race. And while we're there, what about cell phones, since texting while driving has been proven to be at least as deadly as drinking while driving. Teach science and someone will use what you've taught to attack theism.


Again, I will point out that food is necessary while alcohol is not. So this is a false comaprison. Alcoholic beverages are specifically intended to intoxicate, and even mild consumption of alcohol intoxicates slightly. The purpose of the internet is not to promote pornograpy, although the proliferation of pornography is certainly an unfortunate by product of the internet. And food is essential to our survival, even though many people abuse food. So there is a huge difference between selling a product which is designed to intoxicate and selling food, medicine, or tools and instruments that are quite necessary and essential to our daily lives.

I could turn your logic on its head and argue that it's morally ok to sell pornography since many married couples use porn to "spice up" their marriage. Just because some people abuse pornography doesn't mean those who sell pornography should be held responsible. (But let me clarify that I am not making a moral equivalence between alcohol and pornogrpahy. Alcohol is not evil in and of itself like pornography, and there is no sin in moderate alcohol consumption. However, alcohol is designed to intoxicate, and it is not essential or necessary to our survival or to our daily lives.)

As I said earlier, I enjoy beer during non fasting seasons and rejoice in that Christian liberty. However, I would never sell alcohol since I am aware that I could be contributing to the suffering and misery of others. But that's just my opinion.


Selam

I don't want to come off as if I'm arguing with you. I'm still undecided on this and appreciate your input. However, there is no good way to use porn. There is, however, a good way to drink. People may drink in moderation. My father has a beer or two every day, and doesn't get drunk from it. People enjoy the social aspect of it. It's not made just with the purpose to intoxicating.

Also, pharmacies have a lot of over-the-counter meds with no prescription needed that can get a guy pretty messed up.

Also I should point out that for you to buy, someone else must sell. I don't want to sound judgemental because you do make good points, but unless you brew your own beer, wouldn't your own purchasing be an endorsement of the distributor?
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« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2012, 06:24:04 AM »

OK, I drink beer during non fasting periods, so some people may label me a hypocrite for saying this. But I would recommend that you not work at the "beer store." Alcoholism is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Even though moderate alcohol consumption is indeed a Christian liberty, I don't think we should facilitate the sale and spread of any product that could potentially be addictive and destructive.

I suggest you try to find employment elsewhere, even if it means less pay. Consider this: how would you feel about the person who sold alcohol to the drunk driver that killed your loved one? Sure, it's ultimately the drunk driver's fault, but perhaps he would not have gotten drunk if no one had been there to sell him the alcohol. Yes, I know the argument, "Well he'd just buy it from somebody else." But as Orthodox Christians we should be above reproach and do our best not to contribute to evil.

If you have to ask the question, then obviously there is some doubt in your mind. When in doubt, err on the side of caution. Just my two cents, FWIW.

(BTW, props to Peter for taking a stand on the sale of pornography. I think that's outstanding. Seriously!)is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families.



Selam
I'm not sure what the laws are in Canada, but in many US states it's illegal to sell alcohol to anyone who's visibly intoxicated, and a store can be held liable for anything the drunk does in his drunkenness (e.g., drunk driving) for violating that law. I've had to call the police (911) a few times to report someone who drove out of the parking lot after I refused to sell him beer because he appeared drunk.

Also, your logic would rule out someone working in a pharmacy, since many pharmaceuticals can be addictive and destructive, particularly pain killers like oxycontin.

His logic would also rule out selling food--because gluttony is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Or selling internet service, or indeed doing anything to maintain its infrastructure, as there has never been a better or more convenient tool for the pornography and the exercise of lust in the history of the human race. And while we're there, what about cell phones, since texting while driving has been proven to be at least as deadly as drinking while driving. Teach science and someone will use what you've taught to attack theism.


Again, I will point out that food is necessary while alcohol is not. So this is a false comaprison. Alcoholic beverages are specifically intended to intoxicate, and even mild consumption of alcohol intoxicates slightly. The purpose of the internet is not to promote pornograpy, although the proliferation of pornography is certainly an unfortunate by product of the internet. And food is essential to our survival, even though many people abuse food. So there is a huge difference between selling a product which is designed to intoxicate and selling food, medicine, or tools and instruments that are quite necessary and essential to our daily lives.

I could turn your logic on its head and argue that it's morally ok to sell pornography since many married couples use porn to "spice up" their marriage. Just because some people abuse pornography doesn't mean those who sell pornography should be held responsible. (But let me clarify that I am not making a moral equivalence between alcohol and pornogrpahy. Alcohol is not evil in and of itself like pornography, and there is no sin in moderate alcohol consumption. However, alcohol is designed to intoxicate, and it is not essential or necessary to our survival or to our daily lives.)

As I said earlier, I enjoy beer during non fasting seasons and rejoice in that Christian liberty. However, I would never sell alcohol since I am aware that I could be contributing to the suffering and misery of others. But that's just my opinion.


Selam

I don't want to come off as if I'm arguing with you. I'm still undecided on this and appreciate your input. However, there is no good way to use porn. There is, however, a good way to drink. People may drink in moderation. My father has a beer or two every day, and doesn't get drunk from it. People enjoy the social aspect of it. It's not made just with the purpose to intoxicating.

Also, pharmacies have a lot of over-the-counter meds with no prescription needed that can get a guy pretty messed up.

Also I should point out that for you to buy, someone else must sell. I don't want to sound judgemental because you do make good points, but unless you brew your own beer, wouldn't your own purchasing be an endorsement of the distributor?


No worries my friend. You ask legitimate questions. I did try to be clear that I don't make a moral equivalence between beer and pornography. Alcohol is not evil in itself, but pornography is.

It may seem like splitting hairs, but if I buy beer at the grocery store, I don't think I'm contributing to other people's acoholism or to drunkeness. Maybe it's just a personal conviction, but I would feel guilty about working at a bar, a casino, or a "beer store." But I don't feel guilty about enjoying beer in my own home, and I don't feel bad about purchasing beer. Some people may veiw that as logically inconsistent or hypocritical, but I don't think it is.

And I will say that if you can't find any other employment and working at the beer store is the only way you can support yourself or your family, then it may be OK. But I think you are wise to seek employment elsewhere.

Thanks for allowing me to chime in with my two cents.


Selam
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« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2012, 09:57:08 AM »

OK, I drink beer during non fasting periods, so some people may label me a hypocrite for saying this. But I would recommend that you not work at the "beer store." Alcoholism is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Even though moderate alcohol consumption is indeed a Christian liberty, I don't think we should facilitate the sale and spread of any product that could potentially be addictive and destructive.

I suggest you try to find employment elsewhere, even if it means less pay. Consider this: how would you feel about the person who sold alcohol to the drunk driver that killed your loved one? Sure, it's ultimately the drunk driver's fault, but perhaps he would not have gotten drunk if no one had been there to sell him the alcohol. Yes, I know the argument, "Well he'd just buy it from somebody else." But as Orthodox Christians we should be above reproach and do our best not to contribute to evil.

If you have to ask the question, then obviously there is some doubt in your mind. When in doubt, err on the side of caution. Just my two cents, FWIW.

(BTW, props to Peter for taking a stand on the sale of pornography. I think that's outstanding. Seriously!)is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families.



Selam
I'm not sure what the laws are in Canada, but in many US states it's illegal to sell alcohol to anyone who's visibly intoxicated, and a store can be held liable for anything the drunk does in his drunkenness (e.g., drunk driving) for violating that law. I've had to call the police (911) a few times to report someone who drove out of the parking lot after I refused to sell him beer because he appeared drunk.

Also, your logic would rule out someone working in a pharmacy, since many pharmaceuticals can be addictive and destructive, particularly pain killers like oxycontin.

His logic would also rule out selling food--because gluttony is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Or selling internet service, or indeed doing anything to maintain its infrastructure, as there has never been a better or more convenient tool for the pornography and the exercise of lust in the history of the human race. And while we're there, what about cell phones, since texting while driving has been proven to be at least as deadly as drinking while driving. Teach science and someone will use what you've taught to attack theism.


Again, I will point out that food is necessary while alcohol is not. So this is a false comaprison. Alcoholic beverages are specifically intended to intoxicate, and even mild consumption of alcohol intoxicates slightly. The purpose of the internet is not to promote pornograpy, although the proliferation of pornography is certainly an unfortunate by product of the internet. And food is essential to our survival, even though many people abuse food. So there is a huge difference between selling a product which is designed to intoxicate and selling food, medicine, or tools and instruments that are quite necessary and essential to our daily lives.

I could turn your logic on its head and argue that it's morally ok to sell pornography since many married couples use porn to "spice up" their marriage. Just because some people abuse pornography doesn't mean those who sell pornography should be held responsible. (But let me clarify that I am not making a moral equivalence between alcohol and pornogrpahy. Alcohol is not evil in and of itself like pornography, and there is no sin in moderate alcohol consumption. However, alcohol is designed to intoxicate, and it is not essential or necessary to our survival or to our daily lives.)

As I said earlier, I enjoy beer during non fasting seasons and rejoice in that Christian liberty. However, I would never sell alcohol since I am aware that I could be contributing to the suffering and misery of others. But that's just my opinion.


Selam
Alcohol is not designed to intoxicate. The fact that many abuse alcohol does not mean that alcohol is designed to be abused.
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« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2012, 10:02:36 AM »

And I will say that if you can't find any other employment and working at the beer store is the only way you can support yourself or your family, then it may be OK. But I think you are wise to seek employment elsewhere.
I can agree with this, but only for a totally different reason. Working in a beer store, if it's anything like working in a convenience store, is likely very low paying work. I certainly wouldn't do it if I had the option of working a much higher paying job, but if I were unemployed and desperately in need of work, I would go back to working in a convenience store until I could find something better.
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« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2012, 10:35:20 AM »

Here in Ontario, as in most Canadian provinces, alcoholic beverages are not sold in grocery or convenience stores (except perhaps in small isolated communities).

I'm not a beer drinker myself - but I don't object to others' moderate drinking. Here's what BalmungSama is talking about: The Beer Store

"The Beer Store" is always well known enough in any community to serve as a landmark when giving directions  Smiley.
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« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2012, 12:24:31 PM »

OK, I drink beer during non fasting periods, so some people may label me a hypocrite for saying this. But I would recommend that you not work at the "beer store." Alcoholism is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Even though moderate alcohol consumption is indeed a Christian liberty, I don't think we should facilitate the sale and spread of any product that could potentially be addictive and destructive.

I suggest you try to find employment elsewhere, even if it means less pay. Consider this: how would you feel about the person who sold alcohol to the drunk driver that killed your loved one? Sure, it's ultimately the drunk driver's fault, but perhaps he would not have gotten drunk if no one had been there to sell him the alcohol. Yes, I know the argument, "Well he'd just buy it from somebody else." But as Orthodox Christians we should be above reproach and do our best not to contribute to evil.

If you have to ask the question, then obviously there is some doubt in your mind. When in doubt, err on the side of caution. Just my two cents, FWIW.

(BTW, props to Peter for taking a stand on the sale of pornography. I think that's outstanding. Seriously!)is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families.



Selam
I'm not sure what the laws are in Canada, but in many US states it's illegal to sell alcohol to anyone who's visibly intoxicated, and a store can be held liable for anything the drunk does in his drunkenness (e.g., drunk driving) for violating that law. I've had to call the police (911) a few times to report someone who drove out of the parking lot after I refused to sell him beer because he appeared drunk.

Also, your logic would rule out someone working in a pharmacy, since many pharmaceuticals can be addictive and destructive, particularly pain killers like oxycontin.

His logic would also rule out selling food--because gluttony is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Or selling internet service, or indeed doing anything to maintain its infrastructure, as there has never been a better or more convenient tool for the pornography and the exercise of lust in the history of the human race. And while we're there, what about cell phones, since texting while driving has been proven to be at least as deadly as drinking while driving. Teach science and someone will use what you've taught to attack theism.


Again, I will point out that food is necessary while alcohol is not. So this is a false comaprison. Alcoholic beverages are specifically intended to intoxicate, and even mild consumption of alcohol intoxicates slightly. The purpose of the internet is not to promote pornograpy, although the proliferation of pornography is certainly an unfortunate by product of the internet. And food is essential to our survival, even though many people abuse food. So there is a huge difference between selling a product which is designed to intoxicate and selling food, medicine, or tools and instruments that are quite necessary and essential to our daily lives.

I could turn your logic on its head and argue that it's morally ok to sell pornography since many married couples use porn to "spice up" their marriage. Just because some people abuse pornography doesn't mean those who sell pornography should be held responsible. (But let me clarify that I am not making a moral equivalence between alcohol and pornogrpahy. Alcohol is not evil in and of itself like pornography, and there is no sin in moderate alcohol consumption. However, alcohol is designed to intoxicate, and it is not essential or necessary to our survival or to our daily lives.)

As I said earlier, I enjoy beer during non fasting seasons and rejoice in that Christian liberty. However, I would never sell alcohol since I am aware that I could be contributing to the suffering and misery of others. But that's just my opinion.


Selam
Alcohol is not designed to intoxicate. The fact that many abuse alcohol does not mean that alcohol is designed to be abused.

Mild intoxication is not abuse (maybe I should use a different word than intoxication though.) If alcohol were not designed to alter consciousness in some way, then everyone would simply drink grape juice and near beer.


Selam
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« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2012, 01:43:13 PM »


Mild intoxication is not abuse (maybe I should use a different word than intoxication though.) If alcohol were not designed to alter consciousness in some way, then everyone would simply drink grape juice and near beer.


Selam

Wrong. If that were true the temperance movement would have been right and grape juice would have been used in the Eucharist instead of wine. Alcohol is simply a by-product of fermentation. Distillation may be a different matter (it's a technique which developed much later) but even so alcoholic beverages have been used for thousands of years because people did not have the technology to conserve non-alcoholic beverages like grape juice. Water may have been avoided because it was used for other purposes and would made people sick if contaminated. Also, alcoholic beverages can be healthy when taken in moderation. They were never primarily a source or recreation or debauchery as some have reduced them to today, although obviously they've always been abused.
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« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2012, 01:51:31 PM »

As I said earlier, I enjoy beer during non fasting seasons and rejoice in that Christian liberty. However, I would never sell alcohol since I am aware that I could be contributing to the suffering and misery of others. But that's just my opinion.
I suppose that's a glass-half-empty way of looking at this. The glass-half-full approach I like to use would say that he who sells beer helps contribute to the merriment of others. Ain't nothin' wrong with that. Grin
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« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2012, 02:00:55 PM »

Alcohol is not designed to intoxicate. The fact that many abuse alcohol does not mean that alcohol is designed to be abused.
 I believe that alcohol is manufactured to intoxicate (which is different than abuse).  We can demonstrate this with looking at the ratio of alcoholic beer sales vs. non-alcoholic beer sales.  The fact that alcoholic beer vastly outsells it's non-alcoholic cousin is demonstrative that consumers do indeed want the feeling, however significant, that alcohol provides.  Of course taste will be a major factor, but taste can be chemically reproduced.  I would wager a case of your favorite beer that the majority of beer drinkers would choose alcoholic beer over a non-alcoholic beer even if it tasted the same.  
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« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2012, 02:23:11 PM »

Here in Ontario, as in most Canadian provinces, alcoholic beverages are not sold in grocery or convenience stores (except perhaps in small isolated communities).

I'm not a beer drinker myself - but I don't object to others' moderate drinking. Here's what BalmungSama is talking about: The Beer Store

"The Beer Store" is always well known enough in any community to serve as a landmark when giving directions  Smiley.

I checked it out and found it wanting, especially when it comes to the artisan world-class beers now produced in the States. I wonder if this is the result of (a) Canadian tastes, (b) provincialism, or (c) typical government operations.
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« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2012, 03:02:47 PM »

Pointless aside: anybody tried kvass? It kind of tastes like bread.  Smiley
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« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2012, 03:05:07 PM »

OK, I drink beer during non fasting periods, so some people may label me a hypocrite for saying this. But I would recommend that you not work at the "beer store." Alcoholism is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Even though moderate alcohol consumption is indeed a Christian liberty, I don't think we should facilitate the sale and spread of any product that could potentially be addictive and destructive.

I suggest you try to find employment elsewhere, even if it means less pay. Consider this: how would you feel about the person who sold alcohol to the drunk driver that killed your loved one? Sure, it's ultimately the drunk driver's fault, but perhaps he would not have gotten drunk if no one had been there to sell him the alcohol. Yes, I know the argument, "Well he'd just buy it from somebody else." But as Orthodox Christians we should be above reproach and do our best not to contribute to evil.

If you have to ask the question, then obviously there is some doubt in your mind. When in doubt, err on the side of caution. Just my two cents, FWIW.

(BTW, props to Peter for taking a stand on the sale of pornography. I think that's outstanding. Seriously!)is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families.



Selam
I'm not sure what the laws are in Canada, but in many US states it's illegal to sell alcohol to anyone who's visibly intoxicated, and a store can be held liable for anything the drunk does in his drunkenness (e.g., drunk driving) for violating that law. I've had to call the police (911) a few times to report someone who drove out of the parking lot after I refused to sell him beer because he appeared drunk.

Also, your logic would rule out someone working in a pharmacy, since many pharmaceuticals can be addictive and destructive, particularly pain killers like oxycontin.

His logic would also rule out selling food--because gluttony is a serious problem that takes its toll on countless individuals and families. Or selling internet service, or indeed doing anything to maintain its infrastructure, as there has never been a better or more convenient tool for the pornography and the exercise of lust in the history of the human race. And while we're there, what about cell phones, since texting while driving has been proven to be at least as deadly as drinking while driving. Teach science and someone will use what you've taught to attack theism.


Again, I will point out that food is necessary while alcohol is not. So this is a false comaprison. Alcoholic beverages are specifically intended to intoxicate, and even mild consumption of alcohol intoxicates slightly. The purpose of the internet is not to promote pornograpy, although the proliferation of pornography is certainly an unfortunate by product of the internet. And food is essential to our survival, even though many people abuse food. So there is a huge difference between selling a product which is designed to intoxicate and selling food, medicine, or tools and instruments that are quite necessary and essential to our daily lives.

I could turn your logic on its head and argue that it's morally ok to sell pornography since many married couples use porn to "spice up" their marriage. Just because some people abuse pornography doesn't mean those who sell pornography should be held responsible. (But let me clarify that I am not making a moral equivalence between alcohol and pornogrpahy. Alcohol is not evil in and of itself like pornography, and there is no sin in moderate alcohol consumption. However, alcohol is designed to intoxicate, and it is not essential or necessary to our survival or to our daily lives.)

As I said earlier, I enjoy beer during non fasting seasons and rejoice in that Christian liberty. However, I would never sell alcohol since I am aware that I could be contributing to the suffering and misery of others. But that's just my opinion.


Selam
Alcohol is not designed to intoxicate. The fact that many abuse alcohol does not mean that alcohol is designed to be abused.

Mild intoxication is not abuse (maybe I should use a different word than intoxication though.) If alcohol were not designed to alter consciousness in some way, then everyone would simply drink grape juice and near beer.


Selam

Grape juice and near-beer do not taste like wine and beer.
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« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2012, 03:47:26 PM »

Fruit juice is good. It isn't liquor, though, you're right. I do get Kedem Grape Juice sometimes, just because it's tasty over ice.
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« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2012, 09:40:18 PM »

Pointless aside: anybody tried kvass? It kind of tastes like bread.  Smiley
Ugh.  I tried it once at Pascha.  Remove the letters 'k' and 'v' and that's the sensation I got from it.
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« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2012, 09:50:38 PM »

You infidel. Kvass is delicious. Smiley
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« Reply #42 on: June 02, 2012, 05:28:50 AM »

Here in Ontario, as in most Canadian provinces, alcoholic beverages are not sold in grocery or convenience stores (except perhaps in small isolated communities).

I'm not a beer drinker myself - but I don't object to others' moderate drinking. Here's what BalmungSama is talking about: The Beer Store

"The Beer Store" is always well known enough in any community to serve as a landmark when giving directions  Smiley.

I checked it out and found it wanting, especially when it comes to the artisan world-class beers now produced in the States. I wonder if this is the result of (a) Canadian tastes, (b) provincialism, or (c) typical government operations.
I'll let the Canadian beer drinkers respond to that  Wink.
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« Reply #43 on: June 02, 2012, 04:41:28 PM »

This beer does not even bother to hide its infernal nature, putting the Evil One right on the label:



Have fun with your beer because there will be none in the lake of burning flame.
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« Reply #44 on: June 03, 2012, 02:10:03 AM »

This beer does not even bother to hide its infernal nature, putting the Evil One right on the label:



Have fun with your beer because there will be none in the lake of burning flame.

Maudite means damned by the way.... I dont drink this because of that, but have a sister product of theirs Don De Dieu, which means 'Gift of G-d' in the fridge.
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« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2012, 02:28:43 AM »

Alcohol is not necessary? Only an American could say that. In Old Europe, Alcohol (wine or beer) IS necessary for normal socializing among adults.
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« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2012, 03:29:37 AM »

Maudite means damned by the way.... I dont drink this because of that, but have a sister product of theirs Don De Dieu, which means 'Gift of G-d' in the fridge.

GOD. GOD. GOD. Angry
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« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2012, 06:46:26 AM »

Maudite means damned by the way.... I dont drink this because of that, but have a sister product of theirs Don De Dieu, which means 'Gift of G-d' in the fridge.

GOD. GOD. GOD. Angry

D_ _U
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« Reply #48 on: June 03, 2012, 07:14:42 AM »

Hahaha. Grin You aren't worried about being struck down by French God, I take it? Understandable, since apparently He'd rather invent instruments than smite people for writing vowels:



Well they would make quite a plague...

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« Reply #49 on: June 03, 2012, 01:03:58 PM »

Alcohol is not necessary? Only an American could say that. In Old Europe, Alcohol (wine or beer) IS necessary for normal socializing among adults.

Yeah, but their beer is better.  Grin
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« Reply #50 on: June 03, 2012, 01:10:32 PM »

Alcohol is not necessary? Only an American could say that. In Old Europe, Alcohol (wine or beer) IS necessary for normal socializing among adults.

Yeah, but their beer is better.  Grin

You must have never had Octoberfest from Sam Adams.  And American wine beat French wine in (I believe) 1971.
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« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2012, 01:15:13 PM »

Alcohol is not necessary? Only an American could say that. In Old Europe, Alcohol (wine or beer) IS necessary for normal socializing among adults.

Yeah, but their beer is better.  Grin

You must have never had Octoberfest from Sam Adams.  And American wine beat French wine in (I believe) 1971.

Really? It seems a trip to the store is required!  Cheesy
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« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2012, 01:23:08 PM »

Alcohol is not necessary? Only an American could say that. In Old Europe, Alcohol (wine or beer) IS necessary for normal socializing among adults.

Yeah, but their beer is better.  Grin

You must have never had Octoberfest from Sam Adams.  And American wine beat French wine in (I believe) 1971.

Really? It seems a trip to the store is required!  Cheesy

To which part, Octoberfest or American wine?  For Octoberfest, you'll have to wait until August, unfortunately.  As to the wine, French wine critics were quite dismayed to realize that they preferred American wine in a blind taste test; but then again, wine critics have also been known to rate the same wine in strikingly different ways when it's put in two different bottles with one bottle labelled with an expensive wine, and the other an inexpensive one, so wine critics are really crap.

Plus, the American Association of Wine Economists has shown that cheaper wines are preferred in blind taste tests.  Go to Circle K and pick up the wine they sell, you won't regret it.
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« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2012, 04:56:39 PM »

Alcohol is not necessary? Only an American could say that. In Old Europe, Alcohol (wine or beer) IS necessary for normal socializing among adults.

Yeah, but their beer is better.  Grin

You must have never had Octoberfest from Sam Adams.  And American wine beat French wine in (I believe) 1971.

Really? It seems a trip to the store is required!  Cheesy

To which part, Octoberfest or American wine?  For Octoberfest, you'll have to wait until August, unfortunately.  As to the wine, French wine critics were quite dismayed to realize that they preferred American wine in a blind taste test; but then again, wine critics have also been known to rate the same wine in strikingly different ways when it's put in two different bottles with one bottle labelled with an expensive wine, and the other an inexpensive one, so wine critics are really crap.

Plus, the American Association of Wine Economists has shown that cheaper wines are preferred in blind taste tests.  Go to Circle K and pick up the wine they sell, you won't regret it.
How do you know all this? Huh
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« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2012, 05:02:30 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Alcohol is not necessary? Only an American could say that. In Old Europe, Alcohol (wine or beer) IS necessary for normal socializing among adults.

Yeah, but their beer is better.  Grin
Not any more.  American craft brew is something remarkable to behold.  That is the residual effects of prudish temperance of the American narrative.  It promotes extremists positions, either all the way to right with total abstinence, and all the way to the left with absolutely, maniacal beer snobbery.  In the middle? Much like geography, its Coors.. Tap the Rockies Smiley

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2012, 05:09:24 PM »

Alcohol is not necessary? Only an American could say that. In Old Europe, Alcohol (wine or beer) IS necessary for normal socializing among adults.

Yeah, but their beer is better.  Grin

There are very few examples of beer styles that modern American craft breweries have not meet or exceeded the level of quality of their European counterparts.

Belgium beers are one of those exceptions. There are some good ones out there, but not great Like the Trappists or St. Bernardus'. Ommegang is exceptional but they are actually owned by Belgians.  The guys that make Duvel.
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« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2012, 05:16:17 PM »

Alcohol is not necessary? Only an American could say that. In Old Europe, Alcohol (wine or beer) IS necessary for normal socializing among adults.

Yeah, but their beer is better.  Grin

You must have never had Octoberfest from Sam Adams.  And American wine beat French wine in (I believe) 1971.

Really? It seems a trip to the store is required!  Cheesy

To which part, Octoberfest or American wine?  For Octoberfest, you'll have to wait until August, unfortunately.  As to the wine, French wine critics were quite dismayed to realize that they preferred American wine in a blind taste test; but then again, wine critics have also been known to rate the same wine in strikingly different ways when it's put in two different bottles with one bottle labelled with an expensive wine, and the other an inexpensive one, so wine critics are really crap.

Plus, the American Association of Wine Economists has shown that cheaper wines are preferred in blind taste tests.  Go to Circle K and pick up the wine they sell, you won't regret it.
How do you know all this? Huh

I am well versed in many things.
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« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2012, 05:16:59 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Alcohol is not necessary? Only an American could say that. In Old Europe, Alcohol (wine or beer) IS necessary for normal socializing among adults.

Yeah, but their beer is better.  Grin
Not any more.  American craft brew is something remarkable to behold.  That is the residual effects of prudish temperance of the American narrative.  It promotes extremists positions, either all the way to right with total abstinence, and all the way to the left with absolutely, maniacal beer snobbery.  In the middle? Much like geography, its Coors.. Tap the Rockies Smiley

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Coors...what good can be said of it?
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« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2012, 05:37:50 PM »

Alcohol is not necessary? Only an American could say that. In Old Europe, Alcohol (wine or beer) IS necessary for normal socializing among adults.

Yeah, but their beer is better.  Grin

You must have never had Octoberfest from Sam Adams.  And American wine beat French wine in (I believe) 1971.

Really? It seems a trip to the store is required!  Cheesy

To which part, Octoberfest or American wine?  For Octoberfest, you'll have to wait until August, unfortunately.  As to the wine, French wine critics were quite dismayed to realize that they preferred American wine in a blind taste test; but then again, wine critics have also been known to rate the same wine in strikingly different ways when it's put in two different bottles with one bottle labelled with an expensive wine, and the other an inexpensive one, so wine critics are really crap.

Plus, the American Association of Wine Economists has shown that cheaper wines are preferred in blind taste tests.  Go to Circle K and pick up the wine they sell, you won't regret it.
How do you know all this? Huh

I am well versed in many things.
Including that which you are too young to have experienced legally in your state?
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« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2012, 05:52:45 PM »

Alcohol is not necessary? Only an American could say that. In Old Europe, Alcohol (wine or beer) IS necessary for normal socializing among adults.

Yeah, but their beer is better.  Grin

You must have never had Octoberfest from Sam Adams.  And American wine beat French wine in (I believe) 1971.

Really? It seems a trip to the store is required!  Cheesy

To which part, Octoberfest or American wine?  For Octoberfest, you'll have to wait until August, unfortunately.  As to the wine, French wine critics were quite dismayed to realize that they preferred American wine in a blind taste test; but then again, wine critics have also been known to rate the same wine in strikingly different ways when it's put in two different bottles with one bottle labelled with an expensive wine, and the other an inexpensive one, so wine critics are really crap.

Plus, the American Association of Wine Economists has shown that cheaper wines are preferred in blind taste tests.  Go to Circle K and pick up the wine they sell, you won't regret it.
How do you know all this? Huh

I am well versed in many things.
Including that which you are too young to have experienced legally in your state?

I wasn't aware it was impossible to leave the borders of Arizona.
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« Reply #60 on: June 03, 2012, 05:55:21 PM »

So what is the best red wine I can get? I honestly have no knowledge of wine.
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« Reply #61 on: June 03, 2012, 05:56:43 PM »

As an alcoholic, some of us have a rule which governs much of this thread:

Rule 62.

Take it easy folks.
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« Reply #62 on: June 03, 2012, 05:59:38 PM »

So what is the best red wine I can get? I honestly have no knowledge of wine.

There is no such thing.

Start with decent aftermarket blends. You get something very drinkable and without much dinero.

And don't be afraid of the tetra pack.

Experiment. Keeps notes on what you like and don't like using your own words. Then if you decide to get serious you can learning the vocabulary of wine.

Any decent wine store will point you in the right direction.
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« Reply #63 on: June 03, 2012, 06:03:05 PM »

I googled Rule 62 and had a good laugh, nice.

And orthonormie, when you say Tetra pack you mean the same packaging that is used by orange juice? All I care about is having a glass of wine with dinner every night.
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« Reply #64 on: June 03, 2012, 06:10:43 PM »

Alcohol is not necessary? Only an American could say that. In Old Europe, Alcohol (wine or beer) IS necessary for normal socializing among adults.

Yeah, but their beer is better.  Grin

You must have never had Octoberfest from Sam Adams.  And American wine beat French wine in (I believe) 1971.

Really? It seems a trip to the store is required!  Cheesy

To which part, Octoberfest or American wine?  For Octoberfest, you'll have to wait until August, unfortunately.  As to the wine, French wine critics were quite dismayed to realize that they preferred American wine in a blind taste test; but then again, wine critics have also been known to rate the same wine in strikingly different ways when it's put in two different bottles with one bottle labelled with an expensive wine, and the other an inexpensive one, so wine critics are really crap.

Plus, the American Association of Wine Economists has shown that cheaper wines are preferred in blind taste tests.  Go to Circle K and pick up the wine they sell, you won't regret it.
How do you know all this? Huh

I am well versed in many things.
Including that which you are too young to have experienced legally in your state?

I wasn't aware it was impossible to leave the borders of Arizona.
Yes, I understand that the drinking age in Mexico is only 18, and since Arizona shares a border with Mexico, I suppose it's not all that difficult for you to have spent some time south of the border. I didn't mean to sound as if I was attacking you. I was just surprised by your knowledge of wine and beer and found it hard to believe you could know so much about the subject, considering some of the personal details you've revealed in your profile. Please forgive me for causing you offense.
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« Reply #65 on: June 03, 2012, 06:13:40 PM »

Alcohol is not necessary? Only an American could say that. In Old Europe, Alcohol (wine or beer) IS necessary for normal socializing among adults.

Yeah, but their beer is better.  Grin

You must have never had Octoberfest from Sam Adams.  And American wine beat French wine in (I believe) 1971.

Really? It seems a trip to the store is required!  Cheesy

To which part, Octoberfest or American wine?  For Octoberfest, you'll have to wait until August, unfortunately.  As to the wine, French wine critics were quite dismayed to realize that they preferred American wine in a blind taste test; but then again, wine critics have also been known to rate the same wine in strikingly different ways when it's put in two different bottles with one bottle labelled with an expensive wine, and the other an inexpensive one, so wine critics are really crap.

Plus, the American Association of Wine Economists has shown that cheaper wines are preferred in blind taste tests.  Go to Circle K and pick up the wine they sell, you won't regret it.
How do you know all this? Huh

I am well versed in many things.
Including that which you are too young to have experienced legally in your state?

I wasn't aware it was impossible to leave the borders of Arizona.
Yes, I understand that the drinking age in Mexico is only 18, and since Arizona shares a border with Mexico, I suppose it's not all that difficult for you to have spent some time south of the border. I didn't mean to sound as if I was attacking you. I was just surprised by your knowledge of wine and beer and found it hard to believe you could know so much about the subject, considering some of the personal details you've revealed in your profile. Please forgive me for causing you offense.

That's quite alright.  I'd note as well, by the way, several states of the union actually permit the consumption of alcohol by a minor, when a parent is present, such as Colorado where I have a great deal of family.
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« Reply #66 on: June 03, 2012, 06:21:59 PM »

I forgot about Colorado and the ability to drink when a parent is present.

Coors is horrible.

The best beer is Pilsner Urquell. I need a trip to Prague.
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« Reply #67 on: June 03, 2012, 06:32:27 PM »

The best beer is Pilsner Urquell. I need a trip to Prague.

Why not to Pilsen?
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« Reply #68 on: June 03, 2012, 06:47:58 PM »

I was always under the impression Prague had all the Czech drafts. I love Czech beer.
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« Reply #69 on: June 03, 2012, 07:45:55 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Of course Coors is horrible stuff, but if you pay attention, I placed it on the middle of a spectrum that was temperance at one extreme and beer snobbery on the other, so day to day alchies who tap the rockies fit perfectly in the middle there.  Further, it was a pun on geography, the rockies, the middle, the continental divide.. I'm off to enjoy some Stone IPA with the Heat game, its Pentecost today, tomorrow, we Fast.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #70 on: June 03, 2012, 08:55:00 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Of course Coors is horrible stuff, but if you pay attention, I placed it on the middle of a spectrum that was temperance at one extreme and beer snobbery on the other, so day to day alchies who tap the rockies fit perfectly in the middle there.  Further, it was a pun on geography, the rockies, the middle, the continental divide.. I'm off to enjoy some Stone IPA with the Heat game, its Pentecost today, tomorrow, we Fast.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Not an IPA fan (yeah I know, IPAs and Imperial Russian Stouts make up 75% of the craft brews here) but I can drink Stone's and somewhat enjoy it.  DFH 60 or 90 is decent for me as well. The stuff that tastes like pine cone, Ill drain pour that without a second thought.
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« Reply #71 on: June 03, 2012, 09:57:20 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Of course Coors is horrible stuff, but if you pay attention, I placed it on the middle of a spectrum that was temperance at one extreme and beer snobbery on the other, so day to day alchies who tap the rockies fit perfectly in the middle there.  Further, it was a pun on geography, the rockies, the middle, the continental divide.. I'm off to enjoy some Stone IPA with the Heat game, its Pentecost today, tomorrow, we Fast.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Not an IPA fan (yeah I know, IPAs and Imperial Russian Stouts make up 75% of the craft brews here) but I can drink Stone's and somewhat enjoy it.  DFH 60 or 90 is decent for me as well. The stuff that tastes like pine cone, Ill drain pour that without a second thought.

If you drink enough of something else, no beer tastes bad.
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« Reply #72 on: June 03, 2012, 10:06:21 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Of course Coors is horrible stuff, but if you pay attention, I placed it on the middle of a spectrum that was temperance at one extreme and beer snobbery on the other, so day to day alchies who tap the rockies fit perfectly in the middle there.  Further, it was a pun on geography, the rockies, the middle, the continental divide.. I'm off to enjoy some Stone IPA with the Heat game, its Pentecost today, tomorrow, we Fast.

stay blessed,
habte selassie


Not an IPA fan (yeah I know, IPAs and Imperial Russian Stouts make up 75% of the craft brews here) but I can drink Stone's and somewhat enjoy it.  DFH 60 or 90 is decent for me as well. The stuff that tastes like pine cone, Ill drain pour that without a second thought.

If you drink enough of something else, no beer tastes bad.

wa...wa...wahhhhhh
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« Reply #73 on: June 03, 2012, 10:29:26 PM »

Pointless aside: anybody tried kvass? It kind of tastes like bread.  Smiley

I tried kvas (կվաս) once. They sell it on the streets in Armenia during the summer. Didn't care for it too much, but it's probably one of those things you have to develop a taste for like coffee.
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« Reply #74 on: June 03, 2012, 10:36:55 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!




If you drink enough of something else, no beer tastes bad.



^^ has been asked by court order to discuss under age drinking with you..

j/k  angel

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #75 on: June 03, 2012, 11:55:25 PM »

Since I can rarely afford Guiness, Pale Ale, and the finer quality beer that I really enjoy, I confess that in order to satiate my proletriate palate I sometimes consume:



Selam

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« Reply #76 on: June 04, 2012, 12:18:27 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetra_Pak

A lot of drinkable wine has already gone this way in Europe.

Again, don't judge a wine by its container, whether it is a pure varietal, or aftermarket reblend.

Find what you like. Forget all the "rules" governing food pairings. They are usually nonsense. Basically, if you are drinking with food you just want something that doesn't overpower the food or vice versa. Really no different than pairing a beer with food.

Oenophilia or its more respected winophilia is nothing that should cost you a lot of money nor be set in stone by the tastes of others.

The higher priced wines, outside those wines created to help insanely stupid attempts to demonstrate one's palette, are a function of consistency from bottle to bottle or lack of supply due to lower levels of yield whether due to unforeseen circumstances or due to the nature of the grape and process used to make the wine itself (Eiswein for example).  

Stroll down to your nearest wine store and ask for something drinkable. If your taste buds are not completely those of a toddler opt for something a little dry with light to medium body and a light finish. Hard to go wrong there.

Once you try a few bottles or cartons you can give better feedback on what you enjoyed and what you didn't. Just be honest. Wines snobs don't usually sell wine successfully. A good wine store clerk or owner will be thrilled in helping you find what you like.

Drink a few gallons for me.



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« Reply #77 on: June 04, 2012, 12:21:08 AM »

Since I can rarely afford Guiness, Pale Ale, and the finer quality beer that I really enjoy, I confess that in order to satiate my proletriate palate I sometimes consume:



Selam



Guiness...I don't understand why so many people like it.

And anything from a can - in my, admittedly not massive, experience - tastes terrible.
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« Reply #78 on: June 04, 2012, 12:24:42 AM »

Since I can rarely afford Guiness, Pale Ale, and the finer quality beer that I really enjoy, I confess that in order to satiate my proletriate palate I sometimes consume:



Selam



Guiness...I don't understand why so many people like it.

And anything from a can - in my, admittedly not massive, experience - tastes terrible.
Yeah I don't get it either. It tastes like burnt poop.
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« Reply #79 on: June 04, 2012, 12:25:10 AM »

James, Guinness is good for you.

Best red wine = Mavrodaphne.

Best sh!+ beer = Coors, Budweiser, Miller, chilled urine...it all tastes the same but the first three have the desired effect.

Ayinger Brau Weisse was original given to man by the angels.
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« Reply #80 on: June 04, 2012, 12:25:19 AM »

winophilia
Love of Wino's?   Smiley

I recently learned that my great state of Missouri was one of the leading producers of wine before Prohibition.  Not really a wine guy myself, I've had some of our wine that comes from St. James, MO. and thought it was not bad (For all I know, it could've either be REALLY good stuff or horrible stuff.)  Give it a try if you get the chance and let me know.
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« Reply #81 on: June 04, 2012, 12:34:39 AM »


If it weren't for such women, I would've spent more nights than I can count alone. Although for much of my time drinking, beer and wine were strictly food items. Vodka was my alcoholic beverage.

Much of the first wine I consumed was of the dandelion or "pop" variety. Fortified fruit juice of your choice put into an empty bottle with a balloon to close it.

When the ballon popped, it was ready to drink.



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« Reply #82 on: June 04, 2012, 12:35:04 AM »

I love stouts, but Guiness is just OK.  I love both Young's Double Chocolate Stout and their Oatmeal Stout (although no longer available, I believe).  Smith's puts out a great Oatmeal Stout, too.  Sammy Adams has a great Cream Stout.  My second choice of beer is Hefeweizen.  Paulaner puts out an absolutely amazing Hefeweizen!!







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« Reply #83 on: June 04, 2012, 12:38:07 AM »

James, Guinness is good for you.

Best red wine = Mavrodaphne.

Best sh!+ beer = Coors, Budweiser, Miller, chilled urine...it all tastes the same but the first three have the desired effect.

Ayinger Brau Weisse was original given to man by the angels.

Guinness has to be the most overrated beer ever.

And lulz at "craft beers" marketing nonsense in the States. Along with micro and now nanobrews.

What's next? Picobrews?

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« Reply #84 on: June 04, 2012, 12:41:48 AM »

James, Guinness is good for you.

Best red wine = Mavrodaphne.

Best sh!+ beer = Coors, Budweiser, Miller, chilled urine...it all tastes the same but the first three have the desired effect.

Ayinger Brau Weisse was original given to man by the angels.

I cannot stand any Coors, Budweiser, or Miller product (or Pabst), but Corona is good as far as the extremely widely available beers. 
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« Reply #85 on: June 04, 2012, 12:47:22 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


To my Colt 45 packin brotha Gebre, please. Up yo low budget game Smiley




trust me iyah!



And anything from a can - in my, admittedly not massive, experience - tastes terrible.

and the lil homie is right, so pour it in a glass!

stay  blessed,
habte selassie

stay  blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #86 on: June 04, 2012, 12:49:56 AM »

I love stouts, but Guiness is just OK.  I love both Young's Double Chocolate Stout and their Oatmeal Stout (although no longer available, I believe).  Smith's puts out a great Oatmeal Stout, too.  Sammy Adams has a great Cream Stout.  My second choice of beer is Hefeweizen.  Paulaner puts out an absolutely amazing Hefeweizen!!










My kind of stuff! I love dark, rich beer. That's why I love Guiness, but only the extra stout. I don't know why they bother to make anything else. And yes, Samuel Adams Cream Stout is very good. I also love Samuel Adams Scotch Ale, but I haven't been able to find it in years. I wonder if they still make it.



Selam
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« Reply #87 on: June 04, 2012, 12:51:19 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


To my Colt 45 packin brotha Gebre, please. Up yo low budget game Smiley




trust me iyah!



And anything from a can - in my, admittedly not massive, experience - tastes terrible.

and the lil homie is right, so pour it in a glass!

stay  blessed,
habte selassie

stay  blessed,
habte selassie


LOL. Didn't say I was proud of it.  Wink



Selam
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« Reply #88 on: June 04, 2012, 12:53:40 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



To my Colt 45 packin brotha Gebre, please. Up yo low budget game Smiley




trust me iyah!



And anything from a can - in my, admittedly not massive, experience - tastes terrible.

and the lil homie is right, so pour it in a glass!

stay  blessed,
habte selassie

stay  blessed,
habte selassie


LOL. Didn't say I was proud of it.  Wink



Selam

Wasn't hating, that was my honest recommendation Smiley
I used to drink Tecate 24z until Rolling Rock came out with em.  That is my after-work wind-down special.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #89 on: June 04, 2012, 12:54:30 AM »

James, Guinness is good for you.

Best red wine = Mavrodaphne.
I hope you're being sincere cause I'll buy some tomorrow. And follow ortho's rec
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« Reply #90 on: June 04, 2012, 01:55:11 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



To my Colt 45 packin brotha Gebre, please. Up yo low budget game Smiley




trust me iyah!



And anything from a can - in my, admittedly not massive, experience - tastes terrible.

and the lil homie is right, so pour it in a glass!

stay  blessed,
habte selassie

stay  blessed,
habte selassie


LOL. Didn't say I was proud of it.  Wink



Selam

Wasn't hating, that was my honest recommendation Smiley
I used to drink Tecate 24z until Rolling Rock came out with em.  That is my after-work wind-down special.

stay blessed,
habte selassie


I remember the months I spent in Mexico where Bohemia, Dos Equis, Tecate, and Negro Modelo could be had for next to nothing. I don't know how Corona became so popular. I always hated that stuff. But I loved me some Bohemia and Negra Modelo!


Selam
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« Reply #91 on: June 04, 2012, 02:44:25 AM »

Picked up some items for tonight:


Freixenet Cordon Negro Cava

And of course...



2007 Chateauneuf du Pape Cuvee Reine des Bois Domaine de la Mordoree

Had several of these this weekend:


And rather too many of these:


That following morning:

Not strictly a liquid intake, but a necessary remedy for the previous night's bacchanalia

And of course:


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« Reply #92 on: June 04, 2012, 03:55:20 AM »

If it weren't for such women, I would've spent more nights than I can count alone. Although for much of my time drinking, beer and wine were strictly food items. Vodka was my alcoholic beverage.

You have a Slavic soul.   Wine and beer are definitely food items meant to compliment a meal.  Vodka is for serious drinking. 
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« Reply #93 on: June 04, 2012, 05:10:00 AM »

This is blasphemy. Everyone knows that beer is a godless latinization developed in Germany. True Orthodox Christians drink vodka and smoke cigarettes in the Narthex.
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« Reply #94 on: June 04, 2012, 06:02:14 AM »

This is blasphemy. Everyone knows that beer is a godless latinization developed in Germany. True Orthodox Christians drink vodka and smoke cigarettes in the Narthex.

Then count me out. I gave up the vodka nearly five years ago and I am an off and on smoker, more on than off over the last year.

And unless those who dream of hailing from Middleterrania or who actually come from there have their ridiculous hookahs out, I keep the smoking on the down low out of respect for the primarily non-smoking crowd I know of.
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« Reply #95 on: June 04, 2012, 06:06:00 AM »

I think people should generally avoid working at a place that creates or distributes beer, considering how awful beer tastes. I have similar feelings about vegemite.
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« Reply #96 on: June 04, 2012, 09:32:12 AM »

James, Guinness is good for you.

Best red wine = Mavrodaphne.
I hope you're being sincere cause I'll buy some tomorrow. And follow ortho's rec

Yep, I was being cereal.  Mavrodaphne is the best.
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« Reply #97 on: June 04, 2012, 12:04:04 PM »

I think people should generally avoid working at a place that creates or distributes beer, considering how awful beer tastes. I have similar feelings about vegemite.

You haven't had the right beers.  This August, buy Octoberfest from Sam Adams.  If you do not like it, then there is probably no hope for you.
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« Reply #98 on: June 04, 2012, 12:07:52 PM »

I think people should generally avoid working at a place that creates or distributes beer, considering how awful beer tastes. I have similar feelings about vegemite.

You haven't had the right beers.  This August, buy Octoberfest from Sam Adams.  If you do not like it, then there is probably no hope for you.

I prefer to eat grains rather than drink them  police
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« Reply #99 on: June 05, 2012, 03:58:50 PM »

Quote
Orthodox (and, indeed, Roman Catholic) monasteries have been making wine (and, in western Europe, also brewing beer) for many centuries. If it's OK for monks to make wine (and it's by no means all intended for sacramental use) and sell it to support themselves
Link? I would love some wine made by Orthodox Monks (USA please...Im not trying to pay an arm and a leg).

PP
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« Reply #100 on: June 07, 2012, 08:29:43 PM »

I think people should generally avoid working at a place that creates or distributes beer, considering how awful beer tastes. I have similar feelings about vegemite.

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« Reply #101 on: June 11, 2012, 04:21:26 PM »

James, Guinness is good for you.

Best red wine = Mavrodaphne.
I hope you're being sincere cause I'll buy some tomorrow. And follow ortho's rec

Yep, I was being cereal.  Mavrodaphne is the best.
Can't find it anywhere near me.
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« Reply #102 on: June 12, 2012, 03:20:34 PM »

And now I found out they don't import it to America anymore.WTF!
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« Reply #103 on: June 13, 2012, 06:07:44 PM »

Working at a supermarket during a fast gets you excommunicated.
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« Reply #104 on: June 17, 2012, 08:41:05 PM »

I think people should generally avoid working at a place that creates or distributes beer, considering how awful beer tastes. I have similar feelings about vegemite.

You haven't had the right beers.  This August, buy Octoberfest from Sam Adams.  If you do not like it, then there is probably no hope for you.

Interestingly enough, I've never been into Sam Adam's Boston Lager, to hoppy for a lager, but I got some Latitude 48 IPA, and it is almost as good as Stone's IPA.  Indulgent, luxurious, thick, creamy, bursting with aromatic flavor with fruity understones.  A great brew Smiley

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #105 on: June 17, 2012, 09:04:55 PM »

I haven't ever had that one, but you make it sound quite good.
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« Reply #106 on: June 17, 2012, 10:04:01 PM »

Now I'm thirsty.  Cheesy
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« Reply #107 on: June 17, 2012, 10:05:53 PM »


Interestingly enough, I've never been into Sam Adam's Boston Lager, to hoppy for a lager, but I got some Latitude 48 IPA, and it is almost as good as Stone's IPA.  Indulgent, luxurious, thick, creamy, bursting with aromatic flavor with fruity understones.  A great brew Smiley

stay blessed,
habte selassie


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