Author Topic: GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia  (Read 2922 times)

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Online Mor Ephrem

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GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia
« on: November 05, 2004, 02:06:32 PM »
http://www.goarch.org/en/news/NewsDetail.asp?id=1228

Archbishop Demetrios Issues Statement on the U.S. Recognition of F.Y.R.O.M. as Macedonia

NEW YORK - Archbishop Demetrios of America, while participating in the meetings of the Holy and Sacred Synod of the Ecumenical Patriarchate in Constantinople, was informed of the U.S. recognition of F.Y.R.O.M as “Republic of Macedonia” and made the following statement:

“I was very much saddened by the news of the unexpected, untimely and arbitrary recognition of the State of Skopje as “Republic of Macedonia,” a name that defies history. This is a very negative development of an issue, which causes grief and is of the immediate concern to the Greek-American Community and to Hellenism around the world.

I am particularly saddened, because the long-time efforts to falsify and forge the historic truth about Macedonia have found fertile ground amid the circles of the American government, and particularly during an inopportune moment and juncture.

Macedonia as a historical, geographical and cultural term has been through the ages and for thousands of years an inseparable part of Hellenism and it has always been Greek and as such was visited by Apostle Paul when he was asked in a vision “Come over to Macedonia and help us” (Acts 16: 9). He then traveled from Troas of Asia Minor to the city of Philippoi.

The Greek Orthodox Community in America, as it has done time and again, when critical issues of national interest were at stake will use all its might and every means at its disposal to defend this just cause and will fight vigorously against any attempt to falsify and forge the glorious name of Macedonia. We are confident that God will justify our sacred struggle.”

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Offline Anastasios

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Re:GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2004, 02:24:12 PM »
http://www.romanity.org/htm/rom.03.en.franks_romans_feudalism_and_doctrine.01.htm

That explains the basis of Christian Hellenism as well.  In short, it is being a Roman Christian.  In recent years (i.e. since 1821) Hellenism has been a kind of "Greek nationalism" but that betrays its deeper Christian and universal roots.

I am not sure whether the Greeks' reticence over FYRO Macedonia is due to 1) Christian Hellenism or 2) Greek Nationalism masquerading as Hellenism. Perhaps a Greek like Demetri can answer that one.

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Offline sdcheung

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Re:GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2004, 02:37:11 PM »
I for one will Never recognize Skopia as "Macedonia"
again I restate..if Skopia wants the name then she'll be hopefully territorially annexed by Hellas.
Foti, The Kinezo-Ellinas

and Hellenism..means to be Greek and Orthodox Christian. it also applies to its Territories.. Like the "Edges of Hellenism"..
Like Asia Minor (Ionia, Pontos, Cappadocia etc), Syria (in the Roman Empire sense ie. Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine etc) Cyprus, specifically "North", Alexandria, Egypt, Constantinople, Thrace, specifically Eastern (Turkish) and Northern (Bulgarian), Fyrom-Skopia, Albanian Macedonia, Northern Epirus (Southern Albania), Southern Italy and Sicily...

You Greeks out there..hit me over the head if I left out any of the other unredeemed Greek lands. :)

Left out Pirin Macedonia ie. Bulgarian Macedonia
Northern Thrace = Eastern Rumelia
« Last Edit: November 05, 2004, 03:54:51 PM by sdcheung »

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Offline TomS

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Re:GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2004, 04:13:37 PM »
This is just stupid. Just as they also unable to let go of the "glory that was Byzantium"

Offline sdcheung

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Re:GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2004, 04:29:21 PM »
For you Xeni it's stupid..not to them .

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Offline TomS

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Re:GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2004, 04:37:48 PM »
For you Xeni it's stupid..not to them .

I sent the GOA an email telling them to GET OVER this and Byzantium while they were at it!

This is as tiring as reading about the Greeks whining daily because some Turkish fighter pilot crossed into Greek airspace. Either quit whining and shoot one of the SOB's DOWN or SHUT UP about it!
« Last Edit: November 05, 2004, 04:46:15 PM by Tom+ú »

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re:GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2004, 08:20:51 PM »
http://www.romanity.org/htm/rom.03.en.franks_romans_feudalism_and_doctrine.01.htm

That explains the basis of Christian Hellenism as well.  In short, it is being a Roman Christian.  In recent years (i.e. since 1821) Hellenism has been a kind of "Greek nationalism" but that betrays its deeper Christian and universal roots.

I am not sure whether the Greeks' reticence over FYRO Macedonia is due to 1) Christian Hellenism or 2) Greek Nationalism masquerading as Hellenism. Perhaps a Greek like Demetri can answer that one.

Anastasios

Well, a Greek like this 'Demetri' would dare to aver your option #2 above as, sadly, the appropriate one.
Given the relative fluid state of the borders of modern Hellas over the past 180 years I can by way of ratiocination, see the 'Greek' side here- but it is myopic.

Demetri

P.S. I appreciate the sentiments of my friend,+ª++-ä+¦, above, but the root problem is modern 'Macedonians' somehow thinking they are different from their own Slavic brothers and that they take the name of the ancient +£+¦+¦+¦+¦+++++++¦ -sort of like Mexicans saying they are Americans -technically true- but sure to get a argument above the Rio Grande!
« Last Edit: November 05, 2004, 08:27:49 PM by +æ-ü+¦-â-ä+++¦+++«-é »
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re:GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2004, 08:30:06 PM »
I sent the GOA an email telling them to GET OVER this and Byzantium while they were at it!

This is as tiring as reading about the Greeks whining daily because some Turkish fighter pilot crossed into Greek airspace. Either quit whining and shoot one of the SOB's DOWN or SHUT UP about it!

The only 'whining' I see here is yours. Good thing you don't work at the State Department.
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Offline CatholicEagle

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Re:GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2004, 12:54:12 AM »
In our other land grabbing issues, when will the Former USSR give back Poland Lvov, Grodno, Wilno, and the other regions formely under Polish control? Or are they still considered Russia?

Offline The young fogey

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Re:GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2004, 01:05:24 AM »
In our other land grabbing issues, when will the Former USSR give back Poland Lvov, Grodno, Wilno, and the other regions formely under Polish control? Or are they still considered Russia?

Wilno isn't the Russians' fault. Ask the Lithuanians about it - it's Vilnius, their capital.
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Offline Anastasios

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Re:GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2004, 01:27:59 AM »
I think you'd have to ask Ukraine about Lvov.

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Re:GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2004, 11:28:32 AM »
 ;D Can Mexico have back California and Texas? Spain Gibraltar, and Ireland it's northern six counties? And not forgetting may Scotland have Berwick on Tweed back after four hundred years of Sassenach misrule?

But most mischevious question of them all, can the descendants of Alexander the Great have back Afghanistan and the Hindu Kush?

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Offline CatholicEagle

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Re:GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2004, 12:52:14 PM »
Wilno isn't the Russians' fault. Ask the Lithuanians about it - it's Vilnius, their capital.
Lithaunians aren't what they used to be:( They have turned so antiPolish it's sad.  Hey Lwow is still Poland. Haven't you seen the Polish flags at the RC Cathedral?

Offline The young fogey

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Re:GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2004, 12:57:53 PM »
Lithuanians of course are a completely different people to Poles - they aren't Slavs - but their history is closely connected to Poland's.

Historically you've got a good claim to Lwow but the population is different now. Before WWII/the Soviet theft of the city it was mostly Polish. Now it's mostly Ukrainian. Considering the way Poles have treated Ukrainians, their not wanting the city to revert to Poland is understandable.

Relatively recent example: Operation Wisla, in which the anti-Communist Ruthenian mountaineer guerilla fighters had their villages confiscated and either burnt down or given to Poles and were deported across the mountains to the USSR or dispersed elsewhere in Poland - by the Polish Communists when the mountaineers lost their war.

Some of those mountain churches (the ones that weren't razed), obviously Byzantine Rite, were given to the Polish RCs who still use them but of course do the Roman Rite (Novus Ordo).
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Offline CatholicEagle

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Re:GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2004, 01:05:41 PM »
Lithuanians of course are a completely different people to Poles - they aren't Slavs - but their history is closely connected to Poland's.

Historically you've got a good claim to Lwow but the population is different now. Before WWII/the Soviet theft of the city it was mostly Polish. Now it's mostly Ukrainian. Considering the way Poles have treated Ukrainians, their not wanting the city to revert to Poland is understandable.

Relatively recent example: Operation Wisla, in which the anti-Communist Ruthenian mountaineer guerilla fighters had their villages confiscated and either burnt down or given to Poles and were deported across the mountains to the USSR or dispersed elsewhere in Poland - by the Polish Communists when the mountaineers lost their war.

Some of those mountain churches (the ones that weren't razed), obviously Byzantine Rite, were given to the Polish RCs who still use them but of course do the Roman Rite (Novus Ordo).
What???? Operation Wisla was done by SOviets not Polaks.
What about UPA? They killed 200,000 Poles in Wolyn, in collaboration with the Nazis. We still haven't gotten reparations for that.

Offline yBeayf

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Re:GOA Statement on US Recognition of Macedonia
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2004, 06:51:53 PM »
Quote
What???? Operation Wisla was done by SOviets not Polaks.

Of course, Poland never had a communist government.  ::)
« Last Edit: November 09, 2004, 06:52:09 PM by Beayf »