Author Topic: Icons at Ascension Cathedral in Oakland , California  (Read 1362 times)

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Offline AZCatholic

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Icons at Ascension Cathedral in Oakland , California
« on: May 25, 2012, 09:06:25 PM »
Is it just me or do these icons a bit odd?Any idea who painted them?



Offline IXOYE

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Re: Icons at Ascension Cathedral in Oakland , California
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2012, 09:14:30 PM »
Odd.

Offline dzheremi

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Re: Icons at Ascension Cathedral in Oakland , California
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2012, 09:34:19 PM »
Yeah, they do look odd. Oakland has a large African American population, so it could be case of trying to make icons that reflect that community. They do still look odd, though. What is going on with the o in "Mater Theou", though? Why the umlaut? I've never seen that before.

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Icons at Ascension Cathedral in Oakland , California
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2012, 09:44:16 PM »
The icons at Ascension Cathedral were discussed in the thread called Canonical Icons.  In the excerpt, the "image" refers to the icon of the Pantocrator.  One is welcome to visit the thread to view subsequent discussion before and after this excerpt.   :)

^^ In the defense, the "image" looks like St. Moses the Ethiopian than Christ.
:D  A bit of a longshot there.

Churches built during the 1960's are getting "Byzantine" style Makeovers like replacing stainless steel iconostasis with wood, et al.

For some reason, the Parishioners of the Oakland Cathedral are tolerating the image hovering over their heads every Sunday.  Unless someone can tell us why the Community chose the image, we're at a loss for words although I don't feel the image violates anything.   :-X

I feel that the image reflects the Oakland/Berkeley area at the time of the Church's Construction which is a pretty progressive approach for a GOA Church.

My Church, in place of the Pantocrator, has a chandelier surrounded by gold and other colored moulding.  Reason is that there's no dome at my Church but a flat ceiling.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 09:49:22 PM by SolEX01 »

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Icons at Ascension Cathedral in Oakland , California
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2012, 09:46:41 PM »
Yeah, they do look odd. Oakland has a large African American population, so it could be case of trying to make icons that reflect that community. They do still look odd, though. What is going on with the o in "Mater Theou", though? Why the umlaut? I've never seen that before.
Dzheremi, aren't you of slavic extraction?

The ~ lines are like a period for an abbreviation. XC with a ~ on top in Russian icons is an abbreviation for Христос.

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Icons at Ascension Cathedral in Oakland , California
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2012, 10:02:27 PM »
Why the umlaut? I've never seen that before.

It's not an umlaut, it's a combination of the letters O and Y. It's a very common way of writing "ou" to save space.

Offline dzheremi

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Re: Icons at Ascension Cathedral in Oakland , California
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2012, 10:10:07 PM »
Oh, thank you, Orthodox11. That explains it.

Offline LBK

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Re: Icons at Ascension Cathedral in Oakland , California
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2012, 10:26:48 PM »
Ghastly. Like the artist was on a bad trip and/or needed to spend a few more years improving his draftsmanship. What a waste of resources, time and money.  :( :(
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Icons at Ascension Cathedral in Oakland , California
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2012, 11:41:01 PM »
.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 11:41:14 PM by rakovsky »

Offline augustin717

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Re: Icons at Ascension Cathedral in Oakland , California
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2012, 12:26:17 AM »
Yeah, they do look odd. Oakland has a large African American population, so it could be case of trying to make icons that reflect that community. They do still look odd, though. What is going on with the o in "Mater Theou", though? Why the umlaut? I've never seen that before.
It's "miter" in Greek.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Icons at Ascension Cathedral in Oakland , California
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2012, 12:26:17 AM »
the icons are beautiful. they seem to be done in the style of enamels. the dome especially.

Offline JamesR

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Re: Icons at Ascension Cathedral in Oakland , California
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2012, 08:38:30 PM »
My town borders Oakland so I can probably offer some insight. Oakland has a very large population of Black people and so the Orthodox who are in Oakland are more leaned towards the Oriental Orthodox Church because they see it as an African religion that connects with them culturally because of Ethiopia and Egypt, etc. So my guess is probably that maybe the Oriental Orthodox have different styles in regards to Icons and so this Church is influenced by them.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline neon_knights

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Re: Icons at Ascension Cathedral in Oakland , California
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2012, 02:19:31 AM »
That priest in the third picture is Fr. Nebojsa, who is a moderator on these boards and goes by the username serb1389. If you have any questions I think he would be the ideal person to ask.

Online Opus118

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Re: Icons at Ascension Cathedral in Oakland , California
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2012, 01:24:37 PM »
The icons at Ascension Cathedral were discussed in the thread called Canonical Icons.  In the excerpt, the "image" refers to the icon of the Pantocrator.  One is welcome to visit the thread to view subsequent discussion before and after this excerpt.   :)

^^ In the defense, the "image" looks like St. Moses the Ethiopian than Christ.
:D  A bit of a longshot there.

Churches built during the 1960's are getting "Byzantine" style Makeovers like replacing stainless steel iconostasis with wood, et al.

For some reason, the Parishioners of the Oakland Cathedral are tolerating the image hovering over their heads every Sunday.  Unless someone can tell us why the Community chose the image, we're at a loss for words although I don't feel the image violates anything.   :-X

I feel that the image reflects the Oakland/Berkeley area at the time of the Church's Construction which is a pretty progressive approach for a GOA Church.

My Church, in place of the Pantocrator, has a chandelier surrounded by gold and other colored moulding.  Reason is that there's no dome at my Church but a flat ceiling.

If there is something in the prior thread that provided some history to the iconography, I didn't see it, and the link provided is broken and the internet archive of the address was not helpful.

This is what I read which is based on the iconographer's identity in a book on neobyzantine architecture followed by perusing court records. The iconographer had no training prior to this work. He was a Serbian (I believe) kid somewhere between 19-20 yr of age (I don't remember this exact detail). The year before his father murdered his mother and then committed suicide. He had no family and the architect/engineer of the Ascension took him into his family and later adopted him. According to the architecture book the style is slavic. I wouldn't know.


Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: Icons at Ascension Cathedral in Oakland , California
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2012, 01:52:18 PM »
My town borders Oakland so I can probably offer some insight. Oakland has a very large population of Black people and so the Orthodox who are in Oakland are more leaned towards the Oriental Orthodox Church because they see it as an African religion that connects with them culturally because of Ethiopia and Egypt, etc. So my guess is probably that maybe the Oriental Orthodox have different styles in regards to Icons and so this Church is influenced by them.

No, definitely nothing to do with OO.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 01:52:47 PM by Jason.Wike »