Author Topic: Married priests (a different question)  (Read 1148 times)

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Offline Peter J

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Married priests (a different question)
« on: May 20, 2012, 07:39:12 AM »
I know we've had a number of threads about married EC priests (or lack thereof :() in the canonical territory of the LC Church.

This thread is for considering the flip-side: What about LC priests living in the canonical territory of an EC Church? Are they celibate?
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2012, 09:37:41 AM »
I know we've had a number of threads about married EC priests (or lack thereof :() in the canonical territory of the LC Church.

This thread is for considering the flip-side: What about LC priests living in the canonical territory of an EC Church? Are they celibate?

Yes, somewhere here I've brought that up.
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Offline mike

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2012, 10:59:32 AM »
This thread is for considering the flip-side: What about LC priests living in the canonical territory of an EC Church? Are they celibate?

You mean, where?

Offline Alpo

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2012, 02:12:11 PM »
I could understand enforcing clercal celibacy to the Eastern Catholic clergy in the West if they allowed Married Latin clergy in the East. Both are understandable positions but I don't think they can coexist.

Offline Peter J

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2012, 08:33:27 PM »
This thread is for considering the flip-side: What about LC priests living in the canonical territory of an EC Church? Are they celibate?

You mean, where?

E.g. Ukraine. Many other places, but I won't try to give a comprehensive list.
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Offline TheMathematician

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2012, 10:59:47 PM »
I know we've had a number of threads about married EC priests (or lack thereof :() in the canonical territory of the LC Church.

This thread is for considering the flip-side: What about LC priests living in the canonical territory of an EC Church? Are they celibate?

there is no such thing an EC canonical territory, whatsoever.

Offline LakaYaRabb

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2012, 11:50:31 PM »
Actually, incorrect. See Ethiopian Catholic Church and the canonical territorial status thereof...

Offline LakaYaRabb

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2012, 11:52:31 PM »
Quote
In 1995, two new eparchies, Barentu and Keren, were established in Eritrea,[3] and the Latin Rite apostolic vicariate was abolished. Eritrea thus became the only country where all Catholics, whatever their personal liturgical rite, belong to an Eastern Catholic jurisdiction.

See wikipedia for details

Offline LakaYaRabb

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2012, 11:55:42 PM »
I know we've had a number of threads about married EC priests (or lack thereof :() in the canonical territory of the LC Church.

This thread is for considering the flip-side: What about LC priests living in the canonical territory of an EC Church? Are they celibate?

Mandatory celibacy is the discipline for Roman Catholicism everywhere, with limited and very restricted norms established for exceptions. Geography or geographical jurisdiction play no part in the application of this discipline.

Offline Peter J

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2012, 07:44:18 AM »
I know we've had a number of threads about married EC priests (or lack thereof :() in the canonical territory of the LC Church.

This thread is for considering the flip-side: What about LC priests living in the canonical territory of an EC Church? Are they celibate?

there is no such thing an EC canonical territory, whatsoever.

Actually, not only there is such a thing, but the basis for not allowing married EC priests in places like the US is that they are "outside their canonical territory".
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2012, 08:40:35 AM »
I know we've had a number of threads about married EC priests (or lack thereof :() in the canonical territory of the LC Church.

This thread is for considering the flip-side: What about LC priests living in the canonical territory of an EC Church? Are they celibate?

there is no such thing an EC canonical territory, whatsoever.

Actually, not only there is such a thing, but the basis for not allowing married EC priests in places like the US is that they are "outside their canonical territory".
"acceptable field of operations" is more like it.

I'd have to look, but I don't recall canonical territory being defined in the Codex Canonum Ecclesiarum Orientalium.  The Italo-Albanians are in their own "canonical territory."  How's their stand on married clergy?  Like the Romanians in Italy?
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Offline mike

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2012, 01:03:07 PM »
Quote
In 1995, two new eparchies, Barentu and Keren, were established in Eritrea,[3] and the Latin Rite apostolic vicariate was abolished. Eritrea thus became the only country where all Catholics, whatever their personal liturgical rite, belong to an Eastern Catholic jurisdiction.

See wikipedia for details

I've read somewhere that the whole Ethipiian Catholic Church adopted mandatory celibacy.

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2012, 01:51:27 PM »
Quote
Actually, not only there is such a thing, but the basis for not allowing married EC priests in places like the US is that they are "outside their canonical territory

and

Quote
Actually, incorrect. See Ethiopian Catholic Church and the canonical territorial status thereof

The canonical territory of these churches is pretty easy to define:



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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2012, 09:15:21 PM »
I'd have to look, but I don't recall canonical territory being defined in the Codex Canonum Ecclesiarum Orientalium.  The Italo-Albanians are in their own "canonical territory."  How's their stand on married clergy?  Like the Romanians in Italy?

Canons 146-150.  The Italo-Albanians have always had a married priesthhood which makes the Italian position on the Romanians even more ridiculous.  The Italo-Albanian Eparchies are also territorial in that the have charge of the Latin parishes within their district as well as their own. 
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2012, 09:26:16 PM »
I've read somewhere that the whole Ethipiian Catholic Church adopted mandatory celibacy.

No the Syro-Malabars and Syro-Malankars adopted mandatory celibacy for the priesthood.  The Copts, Ethiopians, and Syriacs, adopted prefered celibacy in that celibacy is considered the norm but the patriarch/metropolitan may grant dispensations.
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Offline mike

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2012, 04:29:48 AM »
The Copts, Ethiopians, and Syriacs, adopted prefered celibacy in that celibacy is considered the norm but the patriarch/metropolitan may grant dispensations.

Like in the  Roman Rite?

Offline Peter J

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2012, 07:03:17 AM »
The Copts, Ethiopians, and Syriacs, adopted prefered celibacy in that celibacy is considered the norm but the patriarch/metropolitan may grant dispensations.

Like in the  Roman Rite?

In a way, although if there's one thing I've heard about a million times it's that having married priests "isn't the tradition" in the Latin Church.
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Offline JoeS2

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2012, 11:21:43 AM »
I know we've had a number of threads about married EC priests (or lack thereof :() in the canonical territory of the LC Church.

This thread is for considering the flip-side: What about LC priests living in the canonical territory of an EC Church? Are they celibate?

Although limited in numbers, the RCC have accepted ordained ministers with families to the priesthood and have in some cases assigned parishes to such families.  Most have been assigned administrative roles in the RCC however.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 11:22:37 AM by JoeS2 »

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2012, 04:25:48 PM »
The Copts, Ethiopians, and Syriacs, adopted prefered celibacy in that celibacy is considered the norm but the patriarch/metropolitan may grant dispensations.

Like in the  Roman Rite?

No, because in the Latin Church dispensations are considered an extraordinary exception, must be given by the Pope and are only given to converting Protestant clergy.  Among the Copts, Syriacs, and Ethiopians the dispensation is granted by the patriarch/metropolitan for men of teir own Church and they are common.
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2012, 09:32:35 AM »
The Copts, Ethiopians, and Syriacs, adopted prefered celibacy in that celibacy is considered the norm but the patriarch/metropolitan may grant dispensations.

Like in the  Roman Rite?

No, because in the Latin Church dispensations are considered an extraordinary exception, must be given by the Pope and are only given to converting Protestant clergy. 

But I suspect Michał's point was that the Pope is the Latin Church's patriarch.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2012, 09:42:17 AM »
I thought he meant they must ask the dispensation of Rome rather than their own patriarch.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Married priests (a different question)
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2012, 11:15:56 AM »
I know we've had a number of threads about married EC priests (or lack thereof :() in the canonical territory of the LC Church.

This thread is for considering the flip-side: What about LC priests living in the canonical territory of an EC Church? Are they celibate?

Although limited in numbers, the RCC have accepted ordained ministers with families to the priesthood and have in some cases assigned parishes to such families.
That is only outside of "the canonical territory of an EC Church," e.g. the US or Britain.  Not in Eastern Europe nor the Middle East.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth