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Author Topic: Orthodox Study Bible - Should I buy it?  (Read 4653 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: May 20, 2012, 06:53:35 AM »

Hi All, Hows it all going ?.

I am looking at buying the OSB but I have a question is it worth it ? Does the commentary meet a good standard of explaining verses/chapters ? Has the old Testament in the OSB been translated full from the LXX or partially ? Have all the Apocryphia books which are accepted by the church from the LXX included in OSB with full commentary ?. Also could anyone recommend me a good book regarding an orthodox commentary on the Book of Revelation ?

I have read previous reviews on the forum about and even on amazon but just thought I'd ask some basic questions.

Thanks in advance .
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2012, 07:03:02 AM »

OSB is good, doesn't have Macc IV...yes it has been translated from the LXX although using NKJV for its translation. Commentary on Revelation? Apocalypse by Archbishop Averky: http://www.amazon.com/The-Apocalypse-Teachings-Ancient-Christianity/dp/0938635670. Dr. Vladimir Moss has an interpretation on it here (although his theologumen is questionable): http://www.orthodoxchristianbooks.com/downloads/5_THE_BOOK_OF_THE_END.pdf

Archimandrite Athanasios Mitilinaios has homilies on it here: http://www.saintnicodemos.org/

EDIT: Just an FYI, Dr. Moss is a schismatic and actually did a good refutation on the River of Fire by Kalomiros (which can be found here: http://www.orthodoxchristianbooks.com/articles/207/%E2%80%9C-river-fire%E2%80%9D-revisited/)
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2012, 08:15:53 AM »

The OSB is a good buy. 
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2012, 08:51:07 AM »

Save your money.

http://www.bombaxo.com/blog/?p=512

http://www.bombaxo.com/blog/?p=550

http://www.bombaxo.com/blog/?p=552
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2012, 08:54:54 AM »

It's your money.  Unless you read Greek or Slavonic, anything you buy will be a compromise, so get it if you want it.
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2012, 09:02:56 AM »

It's currently the best thing we have. It has problems, but largely in the footnotes and commentary. Ignore most of the inane footnotes and the translation itself is decent.
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« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2012, 10:33:11 AM »

Hi All, Hows it all going ?.

I am looking at buying the OSB but I have a question is it worth it ? Does the commentary meet a good standard of explaining verses/chapters ? Has the old Testament in the OSB been translated full from the LXX or partially ? Have all the Apocryphia books which are accepted by the church from the LXX included in OSB with full commentary ?

The canon is not exactly set in stone, but for the most part, yes, it has every book an Orthodox Christian could justifiably want. It does not provide even a partial verse-by-verse commentary, but merely has notes or comments on passages here and there. As for the translation, I was under the impression that they used the NKJV as a base and consulted the LXX to make corrections as needed (usually making the proper corrections but sometimes missing one). IMO yes it is worth purchasing, especially if you do not currently have a Bible with 3 Maccabees and the like (and especially especially if you don't have one with Tobit, Sirach, etc.)


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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2012, 01:03:07 PM »


Wow.  That was harsh.  Very very fair, but harsh.  Given the duration the OSB took to complete, and the amount of scholars involved, it is a disappointment to be presented with this.  I looked up all the issues/errors mentioned and, sure enough, they were glaring.  That being said, since most Orthodox don't seem to read the Bible nearly as much as we used to, right now, there isn't much choice. 
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2012, 02:10:59 PM »

I think you should buy it, Psalm110.  It's pretty good, has some helpful explanations, and provides info on liturgical readings.  That last bit was particularly helpful, as it keeps things tied in (Scripture and Worship) for me.  I don't know of other Bibles that do that.
Yes, some of the footnotes are a bit inane, but just skip through those.

I chuckle at most of the silly criticisms about it.

since most Orthodox don't seem to read the Bible nearly as much as we used to, right now, there isn't much choice.

Say huh?  Most Orthodox never used to read the Bible.
Did you mean to write "should," or were you referring to Orthodox converts?  Confused I be.
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« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2012, 02:12:39 PM »

Unless you read Greek or Slavonic, anything you buy will be a compromise...

Are those magical Christian languages?  Slavonic? Really?
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« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2012, 02:35:15 PM »

I don't have a problem with it really. I'd recommend it. I know that it gets a lot of flack and criticism from people, but it has always been absolutely fine to me. Better than some Bibles I had where it felt like you were reading more commentary from John Piper and why liturgical Christianity is so bad that it really offered you nothing of self benefit. My only complaint with the OSB is that there is not enough room on the pages to take notes.
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« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2012, 02:40:16 PM »

Unless you read Greek or Slavonic, anything you buy will be a compromise...

Are those magical Christian languages?  Slavonic? Really?

Pretty sure he was referring to languages we have manuscripts of the Septuagint in. Nice try, though.
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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2012, 03:02:25 PM »

Unless you read Greek or Slavonic, anything you buy will be a compromise...

Are those magical Christian languages?  Slavonic? Really?

Yes, really.  Or do you doubt the accuracy of the translation, or suggest that the meaning of the Slavonic words have changed - even slightly as much as English over the same period.
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2012, 03:25:27 PM »

Unless you read Greek or Slavonic, anything you buy will be a compromise...

Are those magical Christian languages?  Slavonic? Really?

Pretty sure he was referring to languages we have manuscripts of the Septuagint in. Nice try, though.

The Septuagint?  Nice try, yourself.
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2012, 03:31:19 PM »

Unless you read Greek or Slavonic, anything you buy will be a compromise...

Are those magical Christian languages?  Slavonic? Really?

Yes, really.  Or do you doubt the accuracy of the translation, or suggest that the meaning of the Slavonic words have changed - even slightly as much as English over the same period.

Perhaps overly jerky on my part.  I don't doubt the translation into Slavonic, I'm just wary of comments that imply English is somehow incapable or inadequate for scripture.  My mistake if you were just talking about the Septuagint translations.
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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2012, 04:11:07 PM »

since most Orthodox don't seem to read the Bible nearly as much as we used to, right now, there isn't much choice.

Say huh?  Most Orthodox never used to read the Bible.


 Sure they did.  You're not suggesting they were illiterate are you?  I don't think they read it in group studies like we do nowadays, but I wouldn't be comfortable saying they "never used to read the Bible.". 
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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2012, 04:48:14 PM »

Unless you read Greek or Slavonic, anything you buy will be a compromise...

Are those magical Christian languages?  Slavonic? Really?

Yes, really.  Or do you doubt the accuracy of the translation, or suggest that the meaning of the Slavonic words have changed - even slightly as much as English over the same period.

Perhaps overly jerky on my part.  I don't doubt the translation into Slavonic, I'm just wary of comments that imply English is somehow incapable or inadequate for scripture.  My mistake if you were just talking about the Septuagint translations.

Understood.  It was a combination of both.  First, there are really few English translations that use the LXX.  I do not consider this an issue since the New Testament is, for me at least, the primary Scripture on which I rely.  All that I really need out of the OT is a good translation of the Psalms, properly numbered, and a collection of the Wisdom Literature, some of which is in the LXX but not the Hebrew.  I really do not need the rest of the books because I am not arguing history, nor do I have to be convinced by the prophets.  However, it IS nice having the entire canon of Scripture in on convenient location (btw - I also have a good collection of most of the books that did not make it, or did not stay, in the Bible).  As for English translations of the New Testament, there are several good ones.  Why I consider them all a compromise is that 1) English is a living language, so the meanings of words change, 2) there is really no agreed upon standard for English.  The English, the Americans, the Australians and the like all speak a different version of it (not that it matters that awful much), and 3) other than the OSB, few if any of the English versions were translated by Orthodox Christians.  Unless one is going to make a clumsy word for word literal translation, with all the meanings of each word included (I once had a Bible that did exactly that), the accuracy of a translation depends somewhat on the similarity in the Faith of the original writer and the current translator.  If they both share the same Faith, the translation should convey the original intent rather well.  If they do not, there will be problems, as seen by some of the rather hideous translations out there now.  Thankfully, many of the better English versions were made at a time where the deviance in belief between the various Christian denominations is not what it is now.  My comment on the Greek and Slavonic was not to imply that those versions contained word for word exactly what came out of Jesus' mouth, but that they were written down 1) by Orthodox Christians, and 2) in Languages that are relatively fixed in meaning.

As an aside for our Latin friends, I also highly value the Vulgate and probably should not have excluded Latin in my original statement.  The Bible that I use most was translated from the Latin of the Vulgate.  Of course, since it is also in English, and it was not translated by Orthodox Christians, so all of the above comments would apply.
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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2012, 05:07:34 PM »

There's really no "Bible" in the Orthodox sense; it's usage is liturgical.
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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2012, 05:41:47 PM »

it's usage is liturgical.
This is 100% true, but...

There's really no "Bible" in the Orthodox sense;
Saints and Elders down through the ages have admonished the faithful to read the Bible more.  Bishop Kallistos Ware, St. Seraphim Rose, even entire jurisdictions, such as the Antiochians, have/are encouraging private/group Bible studies.  Even all those behind the OSB are in on it (Remember, the 'S' stands for Study...)  And why not?  After all, the Church's Liturgies, Services, and Hymnody are all Bible-based.  No Bible- No Church;  when the stone was rolled away, the Tomb was empty- it didn't contain the Bible were Jesus was laid down.  The Church gave it to us.  Golly, they don't call it Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth for nothing, y'all! Cheesy
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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2012, 06:25:11 PM »

..... No Bible- No Church;......

I must admit that I am happy to see someone defend this position (even if I think it just part of the story). The standard (and by coincidence, incorrect) Orthodox/Catholic apologetics about the relationship between the Bible and Church does become somewhat tiring after a while.
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« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2012, 06:36:20 PM »

 when the stone was rolled away, the Tomb was empty- it didn't contain the Bible were Jesus was laid down.  

Huh?
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« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2012, 07:09:56 PM »

it's usage is liturgical.
This is 100% true, but...

There's really no "Bible" in the Orthodox sense;
Saints and Elders down through the ages have admonished the faithful to read the Bible more.  Bishop Kallistos Ware, St. Seraphim Rose, even entire jurisdictions, such as the Antiochians, have/are encouraging private/group Bible studies.  Even all those behind the OSB are in on it (Remember, the 'S' stands for Study...)  And why not?  After all, the Church's Liturgies, Services, and Hymnody are all Bible-based.  No Bible- No Church;  when the stone was rolled away, the Tomb was empty- it didn't contain the Bible were Jesus was laid down.  The Church gave it to us.  Golly, they don't call it Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth for nothing, y'all! Cheesy


The Church doesn't need the Bible. Heck Christianity would have spread just fine without the Bible too.
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« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2012, 07:36:38 PM »


Wow.  That was harsh.  Very very fair, but harsh.  Given the duration the OSB took to complete, and the amount of scholars involved, it is a disappointment to be presented with this.  I looked up all the issues/errors mentioned and, sure enough, they were glaring.  That being said, since most Orthodox don't seem to read the Bible nearly as much as we used to, right now, there isn't much choice.  

OK both of you. I know I read this ages ago, but what are your referring to. I am too lazy to read it again. Of course I realize Kevin Edgecomb's greatest claim to fame is as a biographer (I think photo and  certainly textual) of one of our moderators. What does Kevin recommend for us run of the mill Eastern Orthodox. Is there something equivalently accessible (say for a 12 year-old) and understandable? Is it so bad that we must throw out the bath water?

edit - I am just looking for a bottom line here
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« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2012, 09:01:22 PM »

 when the stone was rolled away, the Tomb was empty- it didn't contain the Bible were Jesus was laid down.  

Huh?

It's an old argument (usually popping up when discussing Sola Scriptura) used when speaking to those of the Protestant persuasion.  It goes something like this:

P- Well, the Bible doesn't say that.
OC- It is the Church's understanding passed down from the time of Christ.  It is the Church that gave us the Bible and not the other way 'round.  The Bible didn't fall out of the sky and land in the empty tomb to be found by people. 
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« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2012, 09:02:26 PM »

it's usage is liturgical.
This is 100% true, but...

There's really no "Bible" in the Orthodox sense;
Saints and Elders down through the ages have admonished the faithful to read the Bible more.  Bishop Kallistos Ware, St. Seraphim Rose, even entire jurisdictions, such as the Antiochians, have/are encouraging private/group Bible studies.  Even all those behind the OSB are in on it (Remember, the 'S' stands for Study...)  And why not?  After all, the Church's Liturgies, Services, and Hymnody are all Bible-based.  No Bible- No Church;  when the stone was rolled away, the Tomb was empty- it didn't contain the Bible were Jesus was laid down.  The Church gave it to us.  Golly, they don't call it Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth for nothing, y'all! Cheesy


The Church doesn't need the Bible. Heck Christianity would have spread just fine without the Bible too.

A 2,000 year old Tradition scoffs at such a thought. 
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« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2012, 09:03:44 PM »


Wow.  That was harsh.  Very very fair, but harsh.  Given the duration the OSB took to complete, and the amount of scholars involved, it is a disappointment to be presented with this.  I looked up all the issues/errors mentioned and, sure enough, they were glaring.  That being said, since most Orthodox don't seem to read the Bible nearly as much as we used to, right now, there isn't much choice.  

 I am too lazy to read it again.

 That is not my problem.  The essays are not difficult to follow.
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« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2012, 09:23:42 PM »


Wow.  That was harsh.  Very very fair, but harsh.  Given the duration the OSB took to complete, and the amount of scholars involved, it is a disappointment to be presented with this.  I looked up all the issues/errors mentioned and, sure enough, they were glaring.  That being said, since most Orthodox don't seem to read the Bible nearly as much as we used to, right now, there isn't much choice.  

 I am too lazy to read it again.

 That is not my problem.  The essays are not difficult to follow.

I guess I should have paid more attention to your current avatar.
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« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2012, 09:43:04 PM »

..... No Bible- No Church;......

I must admit that I am happy to see someone defend this position (even if I think it just part of the story). The standard (and by coincidence, incorrect) Orthodox/Catholic apologetics about the relationship between the Bible and Church does become somewhat tiring after a while.

You said it.
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« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2012, 09:51:37 PM »

..... No Bible- No Church;......

I must admit that I am happy to see someone defend this position (even if I think it just part of the story). The standard (and by coincidence, incorrect) Orthodox/Catholic apologetics about the relationship between the Bible and Church does become somewhat tiring after a while.

You said it.

Why must it be either or (and I'm not accusing you, orthonorm, or engaging in this either or thinking)?  Why must people seem to either believe that without the Church, there would be no Bible or that without the Bible there would be no Church?  It seems to me that without the Bible there would be no Church AND without the Church there would be no Bible.
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« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2012, 10:01:02 PM »

..... No Bible- No Church;......

I must admit that I am happy to see someone defend this position (even if I think it just part of the story). The standard (and by coincidence, incorrect) Orthodox/Catholic apologetics about the relationship between the Bible and Church does become somewhat tiring after a while.

You said it.

Why must it be either or (and I'm not accusing you, orthonorm, or engaging in this either or thinking)?  Why must people seem to either believe that without the Church, there would be no Bible or that without the Bible there would be no Church?  It seems to me that without the Bible there would be no Church AND without the Church there would be no Bible.

The interesting question is why the anxiety of EO apologists who seek to fix the origin of Scripture within some historically measured activity of the "Church".

Frankly, they don't understand the notion of the Church to begin with.

Since I am messing around here a little tonight, I just can't help pointing out that almost all these "serious" questions get caught up in within the same prejudicies. Prejudicies as such are not bad or to be avoided, as if one could, but these prejudicies have long been laid bare and have been shown to be less than productive, thus the same old questions over and over.

But really, I doubt anyone cares to understand, hence the desire for mere apologetics to be able to simply avoid anxiety and find some sort of axiomatic security in lieu of belief or thought.





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« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2012, 10:19:17 PM »

Pffh, I don't even read the Bible. That's too Protestant. Real Orthodox Christians rely solely on the Church to work out their salvation. That's why most Orthodox Christians are so scripturally illiterate.

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« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2012, 10:56:04 PM »

I like it a lot.  ive heard people complain that the notes arent "deep" enough, but I actually like that about it.  if im reading the Bible, I dont want 10 paragraphs of notes I feel like I have to read too. i guess im just a simple minded guy.  if I really need more help with a passage, ill get on the internet or asks someone knowledgeable.
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« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2012, 11:16:33 PM »

Hi All, Hows it all going ?.

I am looking at buying the OSB but I have a question is it worth it ?

If you're not already familiar with Orthodox theology or the Orthodox exegetical tradition, then yes, it is a good investment. Otherwise, it may be too elementary for you.

Quote
Does the commentary meet a good standard of explaining verses/chapters ?

No. Its verse-by-verse commentaries on many passages poorly researched. For all its shortcomings, there is nonetheless plenty of valuable material in there as well. The notes just aren't carefully done. My main problem with them is that the editors seem to have been more interested in refuting Evangelicalism than simply giving either an explanation of the Scriptures or a neutral presentation of Orthodox doctrine.

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Has the old Testament in the OSB been translated full from the LXX or partially ?

The translation is a hybrid of the LXX and the MT.

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Have all the Apocryphia books which are accepted by the church from the LXX included in OSB with full commentary ?.

Yes. Someone mentioned IV Maccabees, but this book is not considered canonical.

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Also could anyone recommend me a good book regarding an orthodox commentary on the Book of Revelation ?

Not me.

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Thanks in advance .

You're welcome.
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« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2012, 11:18:48 PM »

I like it a lot.  ive heard people complain that the notes arent "deep" enough, but I actually like that about it.  if im reading the Bible, I dont want 10 paragraphs of notes I feel like I have to read too. i guess im just a simple minded guy.  if I really need more help with a passage, ill get on the internet or asks someone knowledgeable.

I am more of the opinion that if you are going to write a commentary, do so.  There are a lot of fine commentaries out there (I happen to like Lenske).  I find a "Study Bible" of any kind to be rather a waste of time.  It makes the Bible unnecessarily large and really adds no real value.  As I have said in the past, I would probably use the OSB if you took the S out of it.  And I probably have a different word for the S than was intended.
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« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2012, 11:29:35 PM »

I like it a lot.  ive heard people complain that the notes arent "deep" enough, but I actually like that about it.  if im reading the Bible, I dont want 10 paragraphs of notes I feel like I have to read too. i guess im just a simple minded guy.  if I really need more help with a passage, ill get on the internet or asks someone knowledgeable.

I am more of the opinion that if you are going to write a commentary, do so.  There are a lot of fine commentaries out there (I happen to like Lenske).  I find a "Study Bible" of any kind to be rather a waste of time.  It makes the Bible unnecessarily large and really adds no real value.  As I have said in the past, I would probably use the OSB if you took the S out of it.  And I probably have a different word for the S than was intended.

that would be even better.  id like to have a smaller, compact version of it without the notes, and then get a nice commentary.  

but i suppose for what it is, its not awful.  it really just sits at my icon corner and doesnt move.  if I take a Bible with me somewhere, i dont bring the OSB because of its size and price.  i bought it during my Hyperdox phase anyways.  i just figured since it had a 3 bar cross on it, it was the only Bible God would want me to read.
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« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2012, 01:17:15 AM »

I like the OSB, which is what we use at our Bible study, but I purchased a HC copy of the EOB New Testament, and I really prefer it.  Here is a link if you are interested:

http://www.orthodox-church.info/eob/
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« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2012, 02:13:11 AM »

I'd personally like a compact pocket-sized book with just the Psalms, Creed and Trisoginan (sp?) prayers for praying throughout the day on the spot. The small red Antiochian prayer book is good, but I'd love having all of the Psalms.
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« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2012, 03:26:46 AM »

Are the verses accurate when comparing it to the LXX ? And Are the commentarys accurate to what the church fathers have written / explained ?. from the comments above and from other posts I gather the verses are accurate, but the commentary is not a lot ?
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« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2012, 04:43:19 AM »

Pffh, I don't even read the Bible. That's too Protestant. Real Orthodox Christians rely solely on the Church to work out their salvation. That's why most Orthodox Christians are so scripturally illiterate.

/Hyperdox Herman joke

You may joke, but I had almost exactly that response when I used to do our parish's bulletin translations from Romanian into English. I got one to translate from the usual source (another guy on the parish council who composed them in Romanian) and it contained rather a long Biblical quote. At this point my natural reaction was to say 'Could you give me the chapter and verse for that quote?' Only to be dumbfounded to hear 'We don't do that.' Apparently only Protestants quote verses, which would be fine if all the Orthodox knew the whole thing off by heart, but I know that not to be true, and I certainly don't. It was only when I pointed out to him that learning Romanian by absorption whilst working in a small town in Bucovina didn't actually qualify me to do Biblical translations even if they were into my native tongue and that if he could give me the reference I would use an English Bible for the quote that needed to go in my translation. And this guy wasn't a Hyperdox Herman at all. Rather he was a pretty devout and reasonably normal cradle Orthodox. Much as I find sola scriptura ludicrous I think the almost panicked aversion to anything that sounds like it may hint at sola scriptura in some Orthodox circles is perhaps even more ludicrous. Honestly it almost sounds like we're letting the Protestants have the Bible because we have the Church. As an ex-Protestant myself I find that very sad.

James
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« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2012, 04:55:08 AM »

it's usage is liturgical.
This is 100% true, but...

There's really no "Bible" in the Orthodox sense;
Saints and Elders down through the ages have admonished the faithful to read the Bible more.  Bishop Kallistos Ware, St. Seraphim Rose, even entire jurisdictions, such as the Antiochians, have/are encouraging private/group Bible studies.  Even all those behind the OSB are in on it (Remember, the 'S' stands for Study...)  And why not?  After all, the Church's Liturgies, Services, and Hymnody are all Bible-based.  No Bible- No Church;  when the stone was rolled away, the Tomb was empty- it didn't contain the Bible were Jesus was laid down.  The Church gave it to us.  Golly, they don't call it Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth for nothing, y'all! Cheesy


The Church doesn't need the Bible. Heck Christianity would have spread just fine without the Bible too.

A 2,000 year old Tradition scoffs at such a thought.  
Christianity does not hinge on the reliability of the Bible. It's mission and message would be unhindered and intact even without the Bible. It is not the source or foundation of our faith.

Sometimes I wish the Bible never existed but it is the product of the Church so...
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« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2012, 05:05:15 AM »

Hi All,

Just thought would it be better just to buy the New English Translation of the Septuagint ? http://www.amazon.com/A-New-English-Translation-Septuagint/dp/0195289757/ref=tmm_hrd_title_popover?ie=UTF8&qid=1337590999&sr=8-2

and then just buy commentary on the early church fathers on the bible on certain chapters/verses, would that be the best bet to go with  with the NETS ?
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« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2012, 06:18:34 AM »

Much as I find sola scriptura ludicrous I think the almost panicked aversion to anything that sounds like it may hint at sola scriptura in some Orthodox circles is perhaps even more ludicrous. Honestly it almost sounds like we're letting the Protestants have the Bible because we have the Church. As an ex-Protestant myself I find that very sad.

James

Couldn't have said it better myself.  Too bad most folks here will gloss right over this.  mulţumesc, prieten!
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« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2012, 06:31:21 AM »

There's really no "Bible" in the Orthodox sense; it's usage is liturgical.

This attitude towards the Holy Scriptures is not at all patristic.
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« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2012, 07:22:41 AM »

As a layperson, I highly recomend it for any layperson in the 6,000,000 (or is it 600,00 & dropping?) within American Orthodoxy so that maybe there will remain something called American Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2012, 07:54:56 AM »

I like it a lot.  ive heard people complain that the notes arent "deep" enough, but I actually like that about it.  if im reading the Bible, I dont want 10 paragraphs of notes I feel like I have to read too. i guess im just a simple minded guy.  if I really need more help with a passage, ill get on the internet or asks someone knowledgeable.

I am more of the opinion that if you are going to write a commentary, do so.  There are a lot of fine commentaries out there (I happen to like Lenske).  I find a "Study Bible" of any kind to be rather a waste of time.  It makes the Bible unnecessarily large and really adds no real value.  As I have said in the past, I would probably use the OSB if you took the S out of it.  And I probably have a different word for the S than was intended.

that would be even better.  id like to have a smaller, compact version of it without the notes, and then get a nice commentary.  

but i suppose for what it is, its not awful.  it really just sits at my icon corner and doesnt move.  if I take a Bible with me somewhere, i dont bring the OSB because of its size and price.  i bought it during my Hyperdox phase anyways.  i just figured since it had a 3 bar cross on it, it was the only Bible God would want me to read.

I am glad to see that I was not the only one  Cheesy
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