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Author Topic: Becoming Methodist  (Read 2296 times) Average Rating: 0
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Big Chris
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« on: May 17, 2012, 12:15:22 PM »

I've never really given much thought to why I shouldn't be a Methodist.  I've never even been to a Methodist service before, but you see Methodist churches all over the place.  And they're United, right?  So, I don't see how it could be a bad idea.

I think all this stress on preserving the ancient faith is a bunch of fundamentalist malarkey.  Just because the apostles were uneducated and illiterate and Jewish literalists, incapable of interpretation, incapable of living the spirit of Christ.  Who cares if the apostles established bishops in their stead?  History has shown that the farther an organization proceeds from its founder, the less it resembles the original aims and structure of its founder: look at the Franciscans, the Lutherans, even the Muslims.  Christ didn't come to establish a church or institute a series of sacraments; such a view is presentist and anachronistic.  That one formed around his person and his teachings is obvious, but we call such phenomenon a "cult."  The apostles were frightened, zealous, marginalized Jews no different that the radical mentality of suicide bombers in the Mid East today, willing to be martyred for some delusion.
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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2012, 01:04:09 PM »

History has shown that the farther an organization proceeds from its founder, the less it resembles the original...

There are many that might say that applies to the Methodist Church this day.

In reply to your question though the Methodist Church was founded on the teachings of John Wesley who would strongly object to darn near everything else you said. I suppose that is worth considering before you join. Just my humble opinion though.

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« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 01:04:29 PM by alanscott » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2012, 01:06:56 PM »

And they're United, right?  So, I don't see how it could be a bad idea.

Does the possibility for doctrinal inprecision ever come up?

Quote
I think all this stress on preserving the ancient faith is a bunch of fundamentalist malarkey.

So Christ's faith is a bunch of 'fundamentalist malarkey'? You seem to contradict yourself with your next statement

Quote
Who cares if the apostles established bishops in their stead?  History has shown that the farther an organization proceeds from its founder, the less it resembles the original aims and structure of its founder

So in your previous statement you are complaining about us for preserving the ancient faith, yet right here you complain again that the Church has proceeded too far away from its founder? Well how do you expect us to be true to our founder if we do not preserve His ancient faith? Likewise, you said it yourself; the farther down the line something proceeds from its founder, the less it resembles the original. So why would you want to join a Methodist Church with absolutely no apostolic connections and did not even really exist until the 18th-19th century? You contradict yourself on several occasions.

Quote
Christ didn't come to establish a church or institute a series of sacraments; such a view is presentist and anachronistic.

So I assume that He was lying to St. Peter when He said that He would establish His Church and NEVER let the Gates of Hades prevail against it?

Quote
That one formed around his person and his teachings is obvious, but we call such phenomenon a "cult."

Then I'm a happy cult member, buddy

Quote
The apostles were frightened, zealous, marginalized Jews no different that the radical mentality of suicide bombers in the Mid East today, willing to be martyred for some delusion.

So if you feel this negatively about the Apostles, why do you want to join the Methodist Church if all Churches--even the most Protestant ones--respect the Apostles and recognize the importance of their teachings? Likewise, how do you reconcile your negative beliefs about them if Christ breathed the Holy Spirit into them, sent them to make 'Disciples of all Nations' and guided them in founding the largest religion in the world?
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« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2012, 01:12:15 PM »


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That one formed around his person and his teachings is obvious, but we call such phenomenon a "cult."

Then I'm a happy cult member, buddy


Very well said!!  Wink
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 01:13:19 PM by alanscott » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2012, 01:52:36 PM »

mint,

I said several weeks ago that you were a troll, and I sincerely meant it. In the past week or so I began to soften on that. What if I was wrong? What if you were just crazy, and not a troll?   But then you go a post this thread, and completely reassure me. Thank you, my friend!

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« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2012, 02:19:20 PM »

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The apostles were frightened, zealous, marginalized Jews no different that the radical mentality of suicide bombers in the Mid East today, willing to be martyred for some delusion.

If you really believe that then there is no point in you joining any church, which makes this post seem like you're trolling. If you think Christianity is fundamentally based in error, or "delusion," the thing you're not going to be doing is worrying about what church to join (I know I've been there).
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 02:21:09 PM by Jason.Wike » Logged
Big Chris
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« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2012, 02:20:49 PM »


If you really believe that then there is no point in you joining any church.

Well, I have to do something, and becoming Buddhist or Muslim isn't an option.
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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2012, 02:21:54 PM »


If you really believe that then there is no point in you joining any church.

Well, I have to do something, and becoming Buddhist or Muslim isn't an option.

Why do you "have to do something?"
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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2012, 02:29:33 PM »

I've never really given much thought to why I shouldn't be a Methodist.  I've never even been to a Methodist service before, but you see Methodist churches all over the place.  And they're United, right?  So, I don't see how it could be a bad idea.

I think all this stress on preserving the ancient faith is a bunch of fundamentalist malarkey.  Just because the apostles were uneducated and illiterate and Jewish literalists, incapable of interpretation, incapable of living the spirit of Christ.  Who cares if the apostles established bishops in their stead?  History has shown that the farther an organization proceeds from its founder, the less it resembles the original aims and structure of its founder: look at the Franciscans, the Lutherans, even the Muslims.  Christ didn't come to establish a church or institute a series of sacraments; such a view is presentist and anachronistic.  That one formed around his person and his teachings is obvious, but we call such phenomenon a "cult."  The apostles were frightened, zealous, marginalized Jews no different that the radical mentality of suicide bombers in the Mid East today, willing to be martyred for some delusion.

So, exactly what is it about the Methodist church that you find appealing?  Is it just the fact that you find one on every corner? 

There's a gas station on every corner, too.  Why not just go become a pump jockey.  You will at least get some monetary reward working there, because I doubt you'll get much of any kind of reward from the Methodist church.

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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2012, 02:33:33 PM »


Why do you "have to do something?"

I've got too much invested already.
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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2012, 02:35:04 PM »


So, exactly what is it about the Methodist church that you find appealing?  Is it just the fact that you find one on every corner? 


I don't really know anything about Methodism, but I do know that I wouldn't have to become a catechumen.
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« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2012, 02:35:14 PM »

Mint, I think the internet is probably not your friend at the moment. Take some time away, figure out where you stand within yourself, and then consider "doing something". You are vacillating between extremes at the moment, and that is not good for you. I know you just got out of a bad relationship with Rome (I've been there; I know how it can be very confusing to figure out what to do next), but it's important not to make any rash decisions based on impulse. You don't actually have to do anything at the moment, but again, as someone who has been there, I can only say that what is probably best is not to rush into another ecclesiastical affiliation before you've even made sense of whatever it is you've learned up to this point. You don't just want to bounce around from one church to another, or one religion to another, do you? This life is not a game, and neither is the next. Be careful.
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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2012, 02:36:45 PM »


Why do you "have to do something?"

I've got too much invested already.

What do you mean you have "too much invested already"?
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« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2012, 02:48:13 PM »


So, exactly what is it about the Methodist church that you find appealing?  Is it just the fact that you find one on every corner? 


I don't really know anything about Methodism, but I do know that I wouldn't have to become a catechumen.

And this is a good thing because ... ?
(given previous posts, I suspect I could make a good guess or two, but it might help if you actually spelled it out).
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« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2012, 02:56:24 PM »

And this is a good thing because ... ?
(given previous posts, I suspect I could make a good guess or two, but it might help if you actually spelled it out).

It bypasses all this inane intermediary tripe.  I could literally teach these classes which the priest is giving, and he knows it.
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« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2012, 02:57:28 PM »

Do we need to meet the OP's need for acceptance? Why not to let this thread die?
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« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2012, 03:01:13 PM »

And this is a good thing because ... ?
(given previous posts, I suspect I could make a good guess or two, but it might help if you actually spelled it out).

It bypasses all this inane intermediary tripe.  I could literally teach these classes which the priest is giving, and he knows it.

And is membership in the Church primarily about the ability to lecture on its teachings? Or are there other, more fundamental things, that the catachumenate is meant to give you a start on?
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« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2012, 03:08:53 PM »

And is membership in the Church primarily about the ability to lecture on its teachings? Or are there other, more fundamental things, that the catachumenate is meant to give you a start on?

They say so.

Ah, I'm just having a bad week.  And no one here cares.  I'm just a troll.  I might as well get drunk and get some chick pregnant and pretend I'm some better Christian than the next guy.
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« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2012, 03:12:50 PM »

What do you mean you have "too much invested already"?


Time and money.
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« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2012, 03:13:01 PM »

And this is a good thing because ... ?
(given previous posts, I suspect I could make a good guess or two, but it might help if you actually spelled it out).

It bypasses all this inane intermediary tripe.  I could literally teach these classes which the priest is giving, and he knows it.

You do know that everything takes time.  God took 6 days to create the world.  Your mom carried you for 9 months before you were ready to enter the world.  Even boiling water takes time.

Becoming Methodist because they don't require a catechuman stage of growth is the silliest thing I've heard in a long time.

...and the fact that you think you could teach your priest a thing or two, is also rather prideful and egotistic.

Part of being a good Christian is "obedience".  It doesn't matter that you already KNOW the stuff....you apparently have to work on the "Obedience" portion of Orthodox Christianity.

Wishing you all the best.
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« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2012, 03:14:31 PM »

I call out trolls because of my deep love for humanity.

EDIT--I see you edited your post and took my name out of it (and the other guy). Fair enough. You're still a troll. Glad you took the part about suicide out of the post as well. You're still a troll.

EDIT2--Forgot to mention, I don't claim to be a Christian.
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« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2012, 03:15:54 PM »

And is membership in the Church primarily about the ability to lecture on its teachings? Or are there other, more fundamental things, that the catachumenate is meant to give you a start on?

They say so.

Ah, I'm just having a bad week.  And no one here cares.  I could commit suicide right now for the general neglect of Michal Kalina and Asteriktos, bunch of fine Christians those two are, such a week I'm having.



Relax brother.  Go scope out a methodist church service and see what you think. Then, come back and check out a Divine Liturgy.  I dont know if youre trolling or not, but take the time as a catechumen to learn.  Even if you know a lot of the stuff the priest is telling you, you still havent experienced the full life of the Church if youre new.  (the fasting, participating in the feasts, etc.) Look at it as a time to humble yourself before God and before the rest of the Church. 
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« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2012, 03:17:34 PM »

And is membership in the Church primarily about the ability to lecture on its teachings? Or are there other, more fundamental things, that the catachumenate is meant to give you a start on?

They say so.

Ah, I'm just having a bad week.  And no one here cares.  I could commit suicide right now for the general neglect of Michal Kalina and Asteriktos, bunch of fine Christians those two are, such a week I'm having.



Mint!

I'm sorry to hear you are having a bad week!  I can actually relate.

However, don't base your "life" on what people on this forum have to say, or "how" they say it.

Some days folks here can be very spiteful and hurtful, and perhaps it's because THEY are having a bad week, and simply need to lash out...and it's easier to lash out on someone you probably will never see face to face.

Please, rethink this Methodist nonsense.

You are more than "time and money".  Your soul is priceless.

Have some patience.  I can only assume your priest knows what he's doing....and this "training" period may be better for you than you realize - not in that it may "teach" you may not know....but, it's an exercise of obedience and patience and spiritual growth.

Take a breath and slow down.  What's the hurry?

By the way, we all care....so, don't feel you are alone.  
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« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2012, 03:18:54 PM »

And this is a good thing because ... ?
(given previous posts, I suspect I could make a good guess or two, but it might help if you actually spelled it out).

It bypasses all this inane intermediary tripe.  I could literally teach these classes which the priest is giving, and he knows it.

You do know that everything takes time.  God took 6 days to create the world.  Your mom carried you for 9 months before you were ready to enter the world.  Even boiling water takes time.

Becoming Methodist because they don't require a catechuman stage of growth is the silliest thing I've heard in a long time.

...and the fact that you think you could teach your priest a thing or two, is also rather prideful and egotistic.

Part of being a good Christian is "obedience".  It doesn't matter that you already KNOW the stuff....you apparently have to work on the "Obedience" portion of Orthodox Christianity.

Wishing you all the best.


You're right on all accounts.
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« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2012, 03:32:43 PM »

It sounds like you need to unplug the computer and take a walk outside (preferably the woods or countryside). That's pretty much my answer to most issues though, the tv, computer and the city will mess you up, get outside.
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« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2012, 03:35:29 PM »

I'm pretty sure Asteriktos thinks of himself as a troll in the same sense he was using it for you.

Even if Liza's wrong and your priest doesn't know what he's doing, patience and endurance are Christian virtues that even though the most incompetent priest can help train you in (whether they mean to or not).
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« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2012, 03:42:40 PM »

It sounds like you need to unplug the computer and take a walk outside (preferably the woods or countryside). That's pretty much my answer to most issues though, the tv, computer and the city will mess you up, get outside.

I don't have time to go outside.  First I have to go to the chiropractor, then I go home and eat dinner, and then I have to do my evening prayers, and then read my Bible, and then my fiance will call from Chicago, and then it'll be dark outside and then it's time for bed and work again tomorrow.  My life is crap.  Of course, there is always the Nikki Catsouras photo scandal for perspective.
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« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2012, 03:49:57 PM »

I dunno, man. You've got a job that apparently affords you enough money to go to a chiropractor and eat dinner on a regular basis, and some kind of domicile to live in, and even a fiancee. I think maybe you're doing a bit better than you realize. That probably goes for a lot of people in first world countries who think their lives suck, too (most definitely including me).
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« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2012, 04:17:49 PM »

I've never really given much thought to why I shouldn't be a Methodist.  I've never even been to a Methodist service before, but you see Methodist churches all over the place.  And they're United, right?  So, I don't see how it could be a bad idea.

I think all this stress on preserving the ancient faith is a bunch of fundamentalist malarkey.  Just because the apostles were uneducated and illiterate and Jewish literalists, incapable of interpretation, incapable of living the spirit of Christ.  Who cares if the apostles established bishops in their stead?  History has shown that the farther an organization proceeds from its founder, the less it resembles the original aims and structure of its founder: look at the Franciscans, the Lutherans, even the Muslims.  Christ didn't come to establish a church or institute a series of sacraments; such a view is presentist and anachronistic.  That one formed around his person and his teachings is obvious, but we call such phenomenon a "cult."  The apostles were frightened, zealous, marginalized Jews no different that the radical mentality of suicide bombers in the Mid East today, willing to be martyred for some delusion.
Methodists often like the Church Fathers and have semi-sacramental understandings of things. So if you're not into that, Methodism isn't your way out.
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« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2012, 04:24:22 PM »

Next to Lutheranism and Old Anglicanism before it went liberal, Methodism is probably the Protestant denomination closest to Orthodoxy right now. If you are trying to escape Orthodoxy then becoming a Methodist is not entirely a good idea. And it seems rather strange that you would honestly join a Church with no concern for doctrine or history just because it is convenient or you already 'put too much effort into it'. This is like when I speak with Roman Catholics about religion and they admit that I am right yet they say that they do not want to convert to Orthodoxy because Roman Catholicism is the religion they were raised under or they spent too much of their life being a Roman Catholic to leave the faith. Back on topic, I do not think that Methodism is going to be as simple as you think. In fact, most Protestant denominations other than Baptists and Evangelicals are not as simple as you would think.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 04:27:59 PM by JamesR » Logged

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« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2012, 04:24:43 PM »

It sounds like you need to unplug the computer and take a walk outside (preferably the woods or countryside). That's pretty much my answer to most issues though, the tv, computer and the city will mess you up, get outside.

I don't have time to go outside.  First I have to go to the chiropractor, then I go home and eat dinner, and then I have to do my evening prayers, and then read my Bible, and then my fiance will call from Chicago, and then it'll be dark outside and then it's time for bed and work again tomorrow.  My life is crap.  Of course, there is always the Nikki Catsouras photo scandal for perspective.

Mint, it sounds like pretty much ALL of our lives.  You seem to be stuck in a rut.  Sorry.

But, as dzheremi said....you are truly blessed to have a home and a fiance and food and a computer and good health and....

Step back and realize what you've got!

Contentment is a key to Christianity.  Be content with what you have, and thank God for it, because I am sure there are countless people who would love to be you.
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« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2012, 04:51:37 PM »

It sounds like you need to unplug the computer and take a walk outside (preferably the woods or countryside). That's pretty much my answer to most issues though, the tv, computer and the city will mess you up, get outside.

I don't have time to go outside.  First I have to go to the chiropractor, then I go home and eat dinner, and then I have to do my evening prayers, and then read my Bible, and then my fiance will call from Chicago, and then it'll be dark outside and then it's time for bed and work again tomorrow.  My life is crap.  Of course, there is always the Nikki Catsouras photo scandal for perspective.

If you have time for this website you have time to go outside.
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« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2012, 04:58:05 PM »

It sounds like you need to unplug the computer and take a walk outside (preferably the woods or countryside). That's pretty much my answer to most issues though, the tv, computer and the city will mess you up, get outside.

I don't have time to go outside.  First I have to go to the chiropractor, then I go home and eat dinner, and then I have to do my evening prayers, and then read my Bible, and then my fiance will call from Chicago, and then it'll be dark outside and then it's time for bed and work again tomorrow.  My life is crap.  Of course, there is always the Nikki Catsouras photo scandal for perspective.

If you have time for this website you have time to go outside.

Unless of course he's posting from his work computer in an cubicle/office buried deep inside an office building.
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« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2012, 05:03:19 PM »

It sounds like you need to unplug the computer and take a walk outside (preferably the woods or countryside). That's pretty much my answer to most issues though, the tv, computer and the city will mess you up, get outside.

I don't have time to go outside.  First I have to go to the chiropractor, then I go home and eat dinner, and then I have to do my evening prayers, and then read my Bible, and then my fiance will call from Chicago, and then it'll be dark outside and then it's time for bed and work again tomorrow.  My life is crap.  Of course, there is always the Nikki Catsouras photo scandal for perspective.

If you have time for this website you have time to go outside.

Unless of course he's posting from his work computer in an cubicle/office buried deep inside an office building.

In which case he has no right to complain about his life being "crap," since he gets to goof off at work while other people have to do real work for probably a quarter of what he makes?
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« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2012, 11:29:28 PM »

And they're United, right?
Only if you look at the United Methodist Church, which then makes your reasoning quite circular. I've been Methodist before, so I can tell you from experience that Methodists are not at all united.
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« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2012, 11:50:56 PM »

the term "United Methodist" is derived form the fact that the United Bretheren Church merged wth teh Methodist Episcopal church in the 60s. ("Episcopal", ie having bishops).
My sig-o's dad was a United Bretheren pastor who became a UMC psator after the merger.
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« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2012, 02:01:03 AM »

What's in a name? Christian Scientists are neither Christians nor Scientists.
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« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2012, 10:51:00 AM »

Only if you look at the United Methodist Church,

Whoa! There's a Methodist ordinariate? I've really got to start reading the news more often.  Embarrassed  Grin
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« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2012, 07:18:10 PM »

Methodism might not be for me, but there is a really booming non-denominational church in the area which I think could meet my needs.  Join up there, invest in one of those massive study Bibles, join some twenty/thirty-something groups, get involved with their outreach, I think something good could come from it.
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« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2012, 07:32:00 PM »

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« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2012, 12:13:32 AM »

Methodism might not be for me, but there is a really booming non-denominational church in the area which I think could meet my needs.  Join up there, invest in one of those massive study Bibles, join some twenty/thirty-something groups, get involved with their outreach, I think something good could come from it.

lol
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« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2012, 01:41:18 AM »

Methodism might not be for me, but there is a really booming non-denominational church in the area which I think could meet my needs.  Join up there, invest in one of those massive study Bibles, join some twenty/thirty-something groups, get involved with their outreach, I think something good could come from it.
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« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2012, 03:13:16 AM »

Methodism might not be for me, but there is a really booming non-denominational church in the area which I think could meet my needs.  Join up there, invest in one of those massive study Bibles, join some twenty/thirty-something groups, get involved with their outreach, I think something good could come from it.

you'll find plenty of cute girls there thats for sure. you might even be able to take your favorite beverage into the service.
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« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2012, 08:52:11 AM »

Methodism might not be for me, but there is a really booming non-denominational church in the area which I think could meet my needs.  Join up there, invest in one of those massive study Bibles, join some twenty/thirty-something groups, get involved with their outreach, I think something good could come from it.

you'll find plenty of cute girls there thats for sure. you might even be able to take your favorite beverage into the service.

You forgot to mention that all of those cute girls will like the same things you do and find you extremely attractive, and that church social events will serve only your favorite foods.
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« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2012, 09:21:15 AM »



Don't feed the leprechaun?
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« Reply #45 on: May 20, 2012, 01:52:30 PM »

Methodism might not be for me, but there is a really booming non-denominational church in the area which I think could meet my needs.  Join up there, invest in one of those massive study Bibles, join some twenty/thirty-something groups, get involved with their outreach, I think something good could come from it.

you'll find plenty of cute girls there thats for sure. you might even be able to take your favorite beverage into the service.

You forgot to mention that all of those cute girls will like the same things you do and find you extremely attractive, and that church social events will serve only your favorite foods.

thanks for filling in that part.
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« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2012, 02:02:22 PM »

Meh, I think you're trolling, but if not, I wish you the best mate. I hope you find whatever you want to find.

PP
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« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2012, 08:43:22 AM »

Methodism might not be for me, but there is a really booming non-denominational church in the area which I think could meet my needs.  Join up there, invest in one of those massive study Bibles, join some twenty/thirty-something groups, get involved with their outreach, I think something good could come from it.

you'll find plenty of cute girls there thats for sure. you might even be able to take your favorite beverage into the service.

You forgot to mention that all of those cute girls will like the same things you do and find you extremely attractive, and that church social events will serve only your favorite foods.

thanks for filling in that part.

Huh ... I thought you would try to one-up me back.  Lips Sealed
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« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2012, 01:58:12 AM »

I've never really given much thought to why I shouldn't be a Methodist.  I've never even been to a Methodist service before, but you see Methodist churches all over the place.  And they're United, right?  So, I don't see how it could be a bad idea.

I think all this stress on preserving the ancient faith is a bunch of fundamentalist malarkey.  Just because the apostles were uneducated and illiterate and Jewish literalists, incapable of interpretation, incapable of living the spirit of Christ.  Who cares if the apostles established bishops in their stead?  History has shown that the farther an organization proceeds from its founder, the less it resembles the original aims and structure of its founder: look at the Franciscans, the Lutherans, even the Muslims.  Christ didn't come to establish a church or institute a series of sacraments; such a view is presentist and anachronistic.  That one formed around his person and his teachings is obvious, but we call such phenomenon a "cult."  The apostles were frightened, zealous, marginalized Jews no different that the radical mentality of suicide bombers in the Mid East today, willing to be martyred for some delusion.

I thought about doing what I normally do, which is answering every objection, but I won't with you, for I sense that something else is going on. Are you a little depressed at the moment?

I am asking because what you wrote have various competing ideas that don't mesh too well, and you just seem down for some reason.
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« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2012, 12:46:18 PM »


I thought about doing what I normally do, which is answering every objection, but I won't with you, for I sense that something else is going on. Are you a little depressed at the moment?

I am asking because what you wrote have various competing ideas that don't mesh too well, and you just seem down for some reason.

I'm genuinely impressed that you are able to pick up on the fact that I was depressed when I originally posted nearly everything in this thread (and other threads) last week.

I am no longer having these thoughts.  Or, at least, I'm no longer expressing these particular doubts in such an incomprehensible manner.

In short, everything expressed in this thread is sort of moot for me right now.
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« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2012, 01:50:50 PM »

Please consider the following from two Evangelical theologians on the four principal views on the progression of Early Christianity.

1. "...Adolf Von Harnack:...Hellenism influenced the post-New Testament Church to the point of eradicating the original sense of the Gospel message."

2. "...(Cardinal Newman):...the Christianity that originated with Jesus and his apostles was merely the starting point of a series of theological developments that continued to evolve over the centuries."

3. The Bauer-Ehrman thesis that there were many varieties of Christianities that were eventually suppressed by the proto-orthodox led by the Church of Rome (my paraphrase of Chapter 1).

4. "...(Father) John Behr, dean and professor of Patristics at St. Vladimir's (Orthodox) theological seminary: ...the theology that the emanated from the new testament, continued through the church fathers, was guarded by the apologists, and solidified in the ecumenical church councils represents a continuous uninterrupted stream. The theology espoused by the orthodox clarified, elucidated, and expanded the theology of the new testament without deviating from it, and the creeds accurently represent the essence of the apostolic faith."

The Heresy of Orthodoxy: How Contemporary Culture's Fascination with Diversity Has Reshaped Our Understanding of Early Christianity, by Andreas Kostenberger and Michael Kruger, Crossway, 2010, page 53.

The Evangelical authors agree with Father Behr, making it most unlikely that your claim is correct; preserving the ancient faith is not merely fundamentalist malarkey but is of critical importance. I am not saying that you are not free to become anything you want; what I am pointing out is that there are only four ways at looking at Early Christianity, which is indeed the truest Christianity. It is up to you to choose.
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« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2012, 02:24:51 PM »

The Heresy of Orthodoxy: How Contemporary Culture's Fascination with Diversity Has Reshaped Our Understanding of Early Christianity, by Andreas Kostenberger and Michael Kruger, Crossway, 2010, page 53.

I really need to read that book.  My intellectual mode of thought has unfortunately been infected by the Bauer-Ehrman(-Pagels) thesis a little too strongly.
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« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2012, 04:06:30 PM »

The Heresy of Orthodoxy: How Contemporary Culture's Fascination with Diversity Has Reshaped Our Understanding of Early Christianity, by Andreas Kostenberger and Michael Kruger, Crossway, 2010, page 53.

I really need to read that book.  My intellectual mode of thought has unfortunately been infected by the Bauer-Ehrman(-Pagels) thesis a little too strongly.
I weep for you  laugh

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« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2012, 05:16:47 PM »

Please consider the following from two Evangelical theologians on the four principal views on the progression of Early Christianity.

1. "...Adolf Von Harnack:...Hellenism influenced the post-New Testament Church to the point of eradicating the original sense of the Gospel message."

2. "...(Cardinal Newman):...the Christianity that originated with Jesus and his apostles was merely the starting point of a series of theological developments that continued to evolve over the centuries."

3. The Bauer-Ehrman thesis that there were many varieties of Christianities that were eventually suppressed by the proto-orthodox led by the Church of Rome (my paraphrase of Chapter 1).

4. "...(Father) John Behr, dean and professor of Patristics at St. Vladimir's (Orthodox) theological seminary: ...the theology that the emanated from the new testament, continued through the church fathers, was guarded by the apologists, and solidified in the ecumenical church councils represents a continuous uninterrupted stream. The theology espoused by the orthodox clarified, elucidated, and expanded the theology of the new testament without deviating from it, and the creeds accurently represent the essence of the apostolic faith."

The Heresy of Orthodoxy: How Contemporary Culture's Fascination with Diversity Has Reshaped Our Understanding of Early Christianity, by Andreas Kostenberger and Michael Kruger, Crossway, 2010, page 53.

The Evangelical authors agree with Father Behr, making it most unlikely that your claim is correct; preserving the ancient faith is not merely fundamentalist malarkey but is of critical importance. I am not saying that you are not free to become anything you want; what I am pointing out is that there are only four ways at looking at Early Christianity, which is indeed the truest Christianity. It is up to you to choose.
the title says it all.
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« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2012, 05:21:12 PM »

Methodism might not be for me, but there is a really booming non-denominational church in the area which I think could meet my needs.  Join up there, invest in one of those massive study Bibles, join some twenty/thirty-something groups, get involved with their outreach, I think something good could come from it.

lol
I was taught to stay away from things that go boom.
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« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2012, 05:35:54 PM »

And this is a good thing because ... ?
(given previous posts, I suspect I could make a good guess or two, but it might help if you actually spelled it out).

It bypasses all this inane intermediary tripe.  I could literally teach these classes which the priest is giving, and he knows it.

Then it is probably not doctrine which you must learn.

Long ago, my priest put it to me this way:

You probably know what the Orthodox Faith entails because you have read extensively.
What is now necessary is to acquire the ethos of Orthodoxy, and to start on the path of theosis.
For this one needs to acquire humility, love, patience, obedience and the rest of the virtues.

How do we acquire the virtues?
By praying and patiently waiting on the Lord.
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« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2012, 05:41:04 PM »

Rome and Constantinople were not built in a day, and neither can we expect to become saints in one day.

Patience little grasshopper. Patience.
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