Author Topic: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge  (Read 3498 times)

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Offline Jetavan

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Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« on: October 22, 2011, 08:43:34 AM »
While evangelicals have issues with Mormons, other churchgoing whites—primarily Catholics and mainline Protestants—view them warmly. Put another way, besides evangelicals, antagonism toward Mormons is concentrated among non-churchgoers and racial minorities.

We hypothesize that white Catholics and mainline Protestants are fine with Mormons because they are not bothered by the same theological issues as are evangelicals, who are theologically conservative and question whether Mormons are really Christians. Nor are these politically moderate groups troubled by the same political issues as staunchly secular Americans and racial minorities, who are politically liberal and disagree with Mormons' conservative political views.


I would add that the problem some racial minorities might have with Mormonism, is not due to Mormon's "conservative political views". ::)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 08:45:16 AM by Jetavan »
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Offline Melodist

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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2011, 08:52:43 AM »
"We hypothesize that white Catholics and mainline Protestants are fine with Mormons"

Not "fine" enough to accept their baptism.
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2011, 09:07:47 AM »
"We hypothesize that white Catholics and mainline Protestants are fine with Mormons"

Not "fine" enough to accept their baptism.
"[M]any Episcopal clergy do not require Mormons to be re-baptized".
If you will, you can become all flame.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2011, 11:08:48 AM »
I don't get it. Under the commonly accepted, nearly 1700 year old definition of Christian, Mormons don't fall under the umbrella. They deny the Trinity, they deny the Divinity of Christ as accepted by all who are called Christian since the defeat of Arius (not 'Catholic', not 'Orthodox', but the broader term Christian) and they accept the teachings of a man-made false prophet and a include a 'book' which is clearly outside of Christian scripture as being their scripture.

I agree with the pastor that Mormons are not Christians. So what?

That being said, for the most part they live lives which appear to be moral, many are hard working, industrious, patriotic etc...etc...etc... This appears to be true for both Governors Romney and Huntsman.

In a polyglot society like the US, if I only vetted and voted for my co-religionists, I would be excluded for the most part from the electoral process.

Such sectarian thinking is dangerous as I see it.

BTW, any Episcopalian 'minister' who professes to be of Anglican heritage who would not BAPTIZE a Mormon convert is delusional and a complete heretic, if not an apostate. (I would not dignify such a person with the title of 'priest.' I know many Episcopalian priests with whom I may disagree, but I respect their office. Not so with the others.)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 11:21:45 AM by podkarpatska »

Offline Basil 320

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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2011, 11:15:52 AM »
The problem with Mormons, from the perspective of the Christian religion, is their failure to profess the Holy Trinity, "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Trinity one in essence, and inseparable."  This is the basis for the commonality among all traditional Christians as to who is there God.  Trinitarian Christians cannot accept Mormons as Christians.  Roman Catholics would have as much of a problem accepting Mormons as would any traditional Christians, i.e. Eastern Orthodox Christians, Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Baptist, United Methodist, etc.  Look at the founding documents of the World Council of Churches, circa late 1940's, before modernism impacted and watered down Protestant understanding of traditional Christianity.

The political issues raised by the poster may be correct too.
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2011, 12:58:04 PM »
"We hypothesize that white Catholics and mainline Protestants are fine with Mormons"

Not "fine" enough to accept their baptism.
"[M]any Episcopal clergy do not require Mormons to be re-baptized".
Unbelievable. Truly this is frightening.
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Offline Ionnis

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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2011, 02:14:18 PM »
"We hypothesize that white Catholics and mainline Protestants are fine with Mormons"

Not "fine" enough to accept their baptism.
"[M]any Episcopal clergy do not require Mormons to be re-baptized".
Unbelievable. Truly this is frightening.

Indeed.  I have an acquaintance who was Mormon who became Episcopalian (he wanted to date guys) and he was not baptized.  His Mormon "baptism" was considered valid.  Now he is a youth leader considering the "priesthood." No surprise really. 
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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2011, 02:32:23 PM »
"We hypothesize that white Catholics and mainline Protestants are fine with Mormons"

Not "fine" enough to accept their baptism.
"[M]any Episcopal clergy do not require Mormons to be re-baptized".
Unbelievable. Truly this is frightening.
There are far worse things in Episcopalianism than that, unfortunately. :/

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Offline PrincessMommy

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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2011, 02:34:25 PM »
I don't get it. Under the commonly accepted, nearly 1700 year old definition of Christian, Mormons don't fall under the umbrella. They deny the Trinity, they deny the Divinity of Christ as accepted by all who are called Christian since the defeat of Arius (not 'Catholic', not 'Orthodox', but the broader term Christian) and they accept the teachings of a man-made false prophet and a include a 'book' which is clearly outside of Christian scripture as being their scripture.

I agree with the pastor that Mormons are not Christians. So what?

That being said, for the most part they live lives which appear to be moral, many are hard working, industrious, patriotic etc...etc...etc... This appears to be true for both Governors Romney and Huntsman.

In a polyglot society like the US, if I only vetted and voted for my co-religionists, I would be excluded for the most part from the electoral process.

Such sectarian thinking is dangerous as I see it.

BTW, any Episcopalian 'minister' who professes to be of Anglican heritage who would not BAPTIZE a Mormon convert is delusional and a complete heretic, if not an apostate. (I would not dignify such a person with the title of 'priest.' I know many Episcopalian priests with whom I may disagree, but I respect their office. Not so with the others.)


I agree with all of this.   I'm not voting for a Pope, I'm voting for a President.  

Nothing surprises me anymore about the Episcopalians.   ::)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 02:34:52 PM by PrincessMommy »

Offline Ninjaly Awesome

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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2011, 03:32:49 PM »
Episcopalianism has long gone off the deep end. As for Romney, I'll vote/note vote for him based on political views.
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Offline Tallitot

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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2011, 05:25:49 PM »
I would assume that racial minorities uncomfortableness with Mormons is due to the fact that LDS Church taught that dark skin was the mark of Cain, dark skinned people were excluded from the priesthood, and one of the rewards a dark skinned person got if they were good little mormons was becoming white so they could enter heaven. The LDS church taught this into the 1970's (apparently G-d changed his mind about black people during that decade).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfTlyuZphf8
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 05:29:13 PM by Tallitot »
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2011, 08:18:50 PM »
Mormonism blasphemes everything that is Christian.

1) It believes that Lucifer and our Savior were brothers
2) It believes that YHWH had physical sex with Mariam
3) It believes that our savior was a mere man who became exalted
4) It believes men can become exalted into Gods, such self exaltation can be found in Isaiah 14 with Lucifer
5) It believes that there were domesticated animals and allows that existed before America was "found" in 1492.
6) The book of Mormon was only witnessed by 2 people who could not read it, and Joseph Smith could because of "magic spectacles"
7) The book of Mormon was edited numerous times (partly do because they wanted to omit polygamy because it was not popular with average Joes)
8 ) Joseph Smith later called the 2 witnesses Beggars and Thieves!
9) Joseph Smith & Brigham Young were both 32 degree freemasons.
10) They believe in the Baptism of the reposed, which is why they are genealogy experts.

So it's far more than clean cut people - believe me.  Many people don't know all this stuff about Mormonism.



Automatic smiley corrected. (The forum's software automatically parses "8 )" sans white space to "8)".)  -PtA
« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 09:35:02 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Tallitot

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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2011, 08:41:18 PM »
I wonder if the golden plates came with matching saucers?
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Offline Basil 320

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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2011, 03:17:19 AM »
What is it that Mormon's believe about Jesus or was it St. Paul the Apostle, I can't recall whom, visited America, and this trip was only revealed to Joe Smith---something like that?  What is their point about the visit to America, what significance does it have for them?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 03:29:14 AM by Basil 320 »
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2011, 03:24:01 AM »
What is it that Mormon's believe about Jesus or was it St. Paul the Apostle, I can't recall whom, visited America, and this trip was only revealed to Joe Smith---something like that?  What is their point about the visit to America, what significance does it have for them?
Yeah Jesus Christ; after his crucifixion, when he converted all the people in America, incluiding inhabitants from the Tower of Babel, or should I say descendants thereof.

The problem here is, there is zero archaelogical evidence for both the groups and any recollection of Christ visiting the Americas.

And there is zero archaleogical evidence that these ancient civilizations had any access to Old World items like ships, coins, vehicles with wheels, etc.

The BoM also further purports that before the Columbian era, the people in America were of one people with one language and racial type. This has been proven to be false, and considering the vast array of racial types not a single one has ever been found to be Semitic, almost all of them were eastern Asian.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 03:38:09 AM by Achronos »
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2011, 04:07:02 AM »
I wonder if the golden plates came with matching saucers?

I believe they came with cake forks.
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Offline Tallitot

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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2011, 04:35:36 AM »
Mormonism blasphemes everything that is Christian.

1) It believes that Lucifer and our Savior were brothers
2) It believes that YHWH had physical sex with Mariam
3) It believes that our savior was a mere man who became exalted
4) It believes men can become exalted into Gods, such self exaltation can be found in Isaiah 14 with Lucifer
5) It believes that there were domesticated animals and allows that existed before America was "found" in 1492.
6) The book of Mormon was only witnessed by 2 people who could not read it, and Joseph Smith could because of "magic spectacles"
7) The book of Mormon was edited numerous times (partly do because they wanted to omit polygamy because it was not popular with average Joes)
8 ) Joseph Smith later called the 2 witnesses Beggars and Thieves!
9) Joseph Smith & Brigham Young were both 32 degree freemasons.
10) They believe in the Baptism of the reposed, which is why they are genealogy experts.

So it's far more than clean cut people - believe me.  Many people don't know all this stuff about Mormonism.



Automatic smiley corrected. (The forum's software automatically parses "8 )" sans white space to "8)".)  -PtA
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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2012, 11:45:33 AM »
The problem with Mormons, from the perspective of the Christian religion, is their failure to profess the Holy Trinity, "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Trinity one in essence, and inseparable."  This is the basis for the commonality among all traditional Christians as to who is there God.  Trinitarian Christians cannot accept Mormons as Christians.  
There was a Baptist ethicist a while back who said the most charitable way to view Mormonism is to consider it the "fourth Abrahamic religion."

I can probably roll with that.
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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2012, 11:37:43 PM »
The latest revival of this topic has been moved to Politics. If you don't yet have access to the private Politics board but would like to follow this latest discussion, please send Fr. George a private message requesting this access.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=44908.0
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 11:42:42 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Pinpointing Romney's Mormon Challenge
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2012, 09:23:03 AM »
This inherently political topic is closed. If it was not political in 2011, it is now that Governor Romney is a candidate of the US Presidency. Thanks, Second Chance