Author Topic: Are some of us a little hard on protestants??  (Read 4451 times)

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Offline Happy Lutheran

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Re: Are some of us a little hard on protestants??
« Reply #90 on: May 17, 2012, 10:09:05 PM »
How much damage has Protestantism caused to the world? I expect to see a good response from augustin.

Depends, if you believe Protestantism helped usher in the enlightment era and Capitalism then it's helped create modern Western society which has pulled billions of people out of poverty and helped user in technology especially modern medical technology. That doesn't seem too bad to me but you may disagree with the premise.
1 Corinthians 1:27 - But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong

Offline Peter J

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Re: Are some of us a little hard on protestants??
« Reply #91 on: May 17, 2012, 10:44:02 PM »
  I have at times been a little hard on other protestants and I feel like it has done more harm than good.  

Depends.  If you're talking about liberal Protestants, replete with homosexual bishops/pastors, clown masses, etc...

You seem to have anti-Protestantism mixed up with anti-Catholicism.  :-[ You should make it a habit to keep them in two separate drawers. :
clown masses are hardly a Roman Catholic phenomenon. The Episcopal Church is quite fond of them, along with their U2charists.

Alright, but my comment wasn't meant entirely seriously. It was a (weak) attempt to poke fun at those who constantly bring up Catholic "clown masses".
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Re: Are some of us a little hard on protestants??
« Reply #92 on: May 17, 2012, 11:35:43 PM »
How much damage has Protestantism caused to the world? I expect to see a good response from augustin.

Depends, if you believe Protestantism helped usher in the enlightment era and Capitalism then it's helped create modern Western society which has pulled billions of people out of poverty and helped user in technology especially modern medical technology. That doesn't seem too bad to me but you may disagree with the premise.

Wouldn't this be just as true?" Protestantism helped usher in the enlightment era and collective bargaining (note the lack of caps so as not to elevate it to some sort of religious denomination) then it helped create modern Western society which has pulled billions of people out of poverty.

Modern medical technology primarily comes from the taxpayers willing to fund research; making that technology generally available goes to the capitalists in my opinion.

Offline Happy Lutheran

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Re: Are some of us a little hard on protestants??
« Reply #93 on: May 18, 2012, 06:46:24 AM »
How much damage has Protestantism caused to the world? I expect to see a good response from augustin.

Depends, if you believe Protestantism helped usher in the enlightment era and Capitalism then it's helped create modern Western society which has pulled billions of people out of poverty and helped user in technology especially modern medical technology. That doesn't seem too bad to me but you may disagree with the premise.

Wouldn't this be just as true?" Protestantism helped usher in the enlightment era and collective bargaining (note the lack of caps so as not to elevate it to some sort of religious denomination) then it helped create modern Western society which has pulled billions of people out of poverty.

Modern medical technology primarily comes from the taxpayers willing to fund research; making that technology generally available goes to the capitalists in my opinion.

Collective bargaining/Unions are an important part of Capitalism, anyone that would tell you different is not a true Capitalist but a Corporatist. Where Free Market Capitalist types have problems with Unions is when they are Government sponsored and get special favors. The unions of the Industrial Revolution were extremely important.

Not sure I agree with the 2nd point there is a great profit incentive for Medical research whether it's subsidized or not.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 06:53:01 AM by Happy Lutheran »
1 Corinthians 1:27 - But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong

Offline Cavaradossi

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Re: Are some of us a little hard on protestants??
« Reply #94 on: May 18, 2012, 07:48:12 AM »
How much damage has Protestantism caused to the world? I expect to see a good response from augustin.

Depends, if you believe Protestantism helped usher in the enlightment era and Capitalism then it's helped create modern Western society which has pulled billions of people out of poverty and helped user in technology especially modern medical technology. That doesn't seem too bad to me but you may disagree with the premise.

Wouldn't this be just as true?" Protestantism helped usher in the enlightment era and collective bargaining (note the lack of caps so as not to elevate it to some sort of religious denomination) then it helped create modern Western society which has pulled billions of people out of poverty.

Modern medical technology primarily comes from the taxpayers willing to fund research; making that technology generally available goes to the capitalists in my opinion.

Collective bargaining/Unions are an important part of Capitalism, anyone that would tell you different is not a true Capitalist but a Corporatist. Where Free Market Capitalist types have problems with Unions is when they are Government sponsored and get special favors. The unions of the Industrial Revolution were extremely important.

Not sure I agree with the 2nd point there is a great profit incentive for Medical research whether it's subsidized or not.

If you hold that to be true, then as a logical consequence, cartels are an important part of Capitalism as well, because they afford sellers the ability to engage in "collective bargaining" with the buyers over the price of their goods. Yet in one case, the government convicts those who engage in collective bargaining as criminals, while in the other case, it encourages individuals to engage in collective bargaining over the price of their labor. Why is that? For the sake of consistency, perhaps we should make cartels legal, and abolish antitrust laws.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 07:54:14 AM by Cavaradossi »
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Offline Punch

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Re: Are some of us a little hard on protestants??
« Reply #95 on: May 18, 2012, 08:01:11 AM »
I find it interesting (as well as disgusting) that one would be so stupid as to compare a cartel with a Union.  Unions do nothing other than ensure that their members are not put into slavery by their employers.  I cannot believe that there are still idiots among us today who wish to go back to the days of child workers, 16 hour days, payment in company currency, and forced purchase of all necessities from company stores.  Unions ended that and allowed workers to be treated as human beings and put a value on their labor.  Cartels are nothing other than a group of people who already have more money than God trying to find some way to squeeze even more money out of other people.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Happy Lutheran

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Re: Are some of us a little hard on protestants??
« Reply #96 on: May 18, 2012, 08:02:32 AM »
Rather than quoting making the post too long if you want to discuss anti-trust you will be happy to know that Adam Smith, essentially the founder of Capitalism was for Anti-Trust laws and discusses such in 'The Wealth of Nations". Even Milton Friedman supported Anti-Trust.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 08:04:02 AM by Happy Lutheran »
1 Corinthians 1:27 - But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong

Offline Timon

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Re: Are some of us a little hard on protestants??
« Reply #97 on: May 18, 2012, 08:50:04 AM »
Capitalism, Shmapitalism.  Cartel, Shmartel.  Union.... umm.. Shmuinion???



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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Are some of us a little hard on protestants??
« Reply #98 on: May 18, 2012, 09:43:29 AM »
Back on topic, everybody. Thank you.
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Are some of us a little hard on protestants??
« Reply #99 on: May 18, 2012, 10:37:15 AM »
I wouldn't either though. I say that they're catholic and protestant, which isn't the same thing. To me, Catholic is a proper name, just like Anglican and Lutheran are proper names. On the other hand, adjectives like catholic, protestant, apostolic, conservative, progressive etc can be applied to many different groups.

P.S. Also, I would call myself "orthodox" but not "Orthodox".
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Offline alanscott

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Re: Are some of us a little hard on protestants??
« Reply #100 on: May 18, 2012, 11:55:53 AM »
I wouldn't either though. I say that they're catholic and protestant, which isn't the same thing. To me, Catholic is a proper name, just like Anglican and Lutheran are proper names. On the other hand, adjectives like catholic, protestant, apostolic, conservative, progressive etc can be applied to many different groups.

P.S. Also, I would call myself "orthodox" but not "Orthodox".

That might make you a progressive orthodox Catholic apostolicity Christian that because of your broad unique views may eventually be called a Protestant!  :)

Let the label makers figure that one out. 
There are heathens that live with more virtue than I. The devil himself believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Neither of these things truly makes me Christian.

Offline sprtslvr1973

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Re: Are some of us a little hard on protestants??
« Reply #101 on: May 18, 2012, 08:11:48 PM »
After almost 2 months, I am still friggin' unemployed, and it is becoming very draining.

However I thank God that I have found an ecumenical support ministry that offers both practical (leads, names, training) and spiritual support to 'people in transition', like myself.

So far the visible bodies of Faith are Roman Catholic and Protestant churches...where are the Orthodox?

There are many very caring and genuine Christian people who are outside our physical church, and whether their dogmatics are precise, their devotion to Christ is very genuine.
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Offline Timon

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Re: Are some of us a little hard on protestants??
« Reply #102 on: May 18, 2012, 10:17:47 PM »
Quote
There are many very caring and genuine Christian people who are outside our physical church, and whether their dogmatics are precise, their devotion to Christ is very genuine.

agreed
Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved.

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Offline Punch

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Re: Are some of us a little hard on protestants??
« Reply #103 on: May 18, 2012, 10:35:48 PM »
After almost 2 months, I am still friggin' unemployed, and it is becoming very draining.

However I thank God that I have found an ecumenical support ministry that offers both practical (leads, names, training) and spiritual support to 'people in transition', like myself.

So far the visible bodies of Faith are Roman Catholic and Protestant churches...where are the Orthodox?

There are many very caring and genuine Christian people who are outside our physical church, and whether their dogmatics are precise, their devotion to Christ is very genuine.

Yes, I have always had a problem with the dichotomy between the Church that is "the keeper of the True Faith" and the churches that "Hear the Word of God and do it".
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.