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Author Topic: Are some of us a little hard on protestants??  (Read 3805 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2012, 02:30:58 PM »

Outside of this insane asylum of internetz when do you people ever really discuss "religion"?

Orthodoxy isn't about a religion, it's about a relationship, and I'm not the kind of guy that kisses and tells. You want me to talk about the intimate details of such a relationship with family and friends, like it's nothing? Really? I am not so flippant, sir; no, I could never be so impertinent as all that.

Long live the best kept secret!
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« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2012, 02:35:27 PM »

Outside of this insane asylum of internetz when do you people ever really discuss "religion"?

Not that much discussion goes on here . . .

Sheesh. You all must be downers.



I discuss it quite regularly.

Stop.

no. my wife likes to ask me questions. as do friends. the whole point of this thread was because when this happens, im a jerk about it. im trying to fix that.
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« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2012, 02:37:35 PM »

Quote
I like to think to myself that "everybody else BUT me is already saved, so I've got a lot of work yet to do."

hit the nail right on the head.
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« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2012, 02:55:49 PM »

Quote
Outside of this insane asylum of internetz when do you people ever really discuss "religion"?
Actually, I do with some regularity. My wife is on the fence, so she has alot of questions. After they convert, God willing, I wont be talking about it too much.

PP
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« Reply #49 on: May 16, 2012, 02:59:57 PM »

One day Abba Isaac went to a monastery. He saw a brother committing a sin and he condemned him. When he returned to the desert, an angel of the Lord came and stood in front of the door of his cell, and said, 'I will not let you enter.' But he persisted saying, 'What is the matter?', and the angel replied, 'God has sent me to ask you where you want to throw the guilty brother whom you have condemned.' Immediately he repented and said, 'I have sinned, forgive me.' Then the angel said, 'Get up, God has forgiven you. But from now on, be careful not to judge someone before God has done so.' -- A story of St. Isaac the Theban, from the sayings of the Desert Fathers (trans. Benedicta Ward, SLG, revised ed., 1984)
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« Reply #50 on: May 16, 2012, 03:41:05 PM »

Outside of this insane asylum of internetz when do you people ever really discuss "religion"?

Not that much discussion goes on here . . .

Sheesh. You all must be downers.



I do.
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« Reply #51 on: May 16, 2012, 04:42:44 PM »

Bad wording with the title. Just wanted to point out you said " a little hard on".

there corrected it for you ; you forgot the bad word.  Wink
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« Reply #52 on: May 16, 2012, 04:46:08 PM »

Bad wording with the title. Just wanted to point out you said " a little hard on".

there corrected it for you ; you forgot the bad word.  Wink

Hiwot FTW!

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2012, 05:10:36 PM »

I don't think you can universally blame them for "not looking East" because I would imagine communication was hard in those days

Actually the communication between the Protestants and the Orthodox in XVIth and XVIIth century was quite good.

The Lutherans got hung up on defending filioque. If only they'd looked deeper.
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« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2012, 05:25:25 PM »

I don't think you can universally blame them for "not looking East" because I would imagine communication was hard in those days

Actually the communication between the Protestants and the Orthodox in XVIth and XVIIth century was quite good.

The Lutherans got hung up on defending filioque. If only they'd looked deeper.

True and the Lutherans were wrong on that point, it's too bad. The ELCA currently endorses the original creed without the flioque but don't mandate it. It's weird since Lutherans promote sola scripture and scripture clearly states the holy spirt proceeds from the father (John 15:26).
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« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2012, 05:36:27 PM »

Bad wording with the title. Just wanted to point out you said " a little hard on".

there corrected it for you ; you forgot the bad word.  Wink

HIWOT!
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« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2012, 05:39:35 PM »

Bad wording with the title. Just wanted to point out you said " a little hard on".

there corrected it for you ; you forgot the bad word.  Wink

I'm glad I didn't make that joke earlier in the thread. Much better to let a pious and intelligent woman do it.  Grin
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« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2012, 05:44:43 PM »

Wow. I thought Hiwot was like this:  angel, but it turns out she's a little bit like this, too:

What's next...Isa is next in line to become Roman Pope? ZZ's llama is secretly very sad? JamesR really loves Protestantism? I think I need to lay down for a while...
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« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2012, 05:55:15 PM »

 laugh laugh Grin  I couldn't resist LOL
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« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2012, 05:55:57 PM »

Wow. I thought Hiwot was like this:  angel, but it turns out she's a little bit like this, too:

What's next...Isa is next in line to become Roman Pope? ZZ's llama is secretly very sad? JamesR really loves Protestantism? I think I need to lay down for a while...

1. I am sure Isa thinks he would be an improvement over the past zillion or so Popes.

2. JamesR is falling in love with hiwot so he no longer has time for anything else

3. Orthonorm is jealous of hiweot's wit.

I love this unexpected curve ball thrown at us.

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« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2012, 05:57:37 PM »

Stop.

That would sound a lot more impressive if you added "Orthonorm has spoken".
:emoticon:
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« Reply #61 on: May 16, 2012, 06:00:03 PM »

Wow. I thought Hiwot was like this:  angel, but it turns out she's a little bit like this, too:

What's next...Isa is next in line to become Roman Pope? ZZ's llama is secretly very sad? JamesR really loves Protestantism? I think I need to lay down for a while...

1. I am sure Isa thinks he would be an improvement over the past zillion or so Popes.

2. JamesR is falling in love with hiwot so he no longer has time for anything else

3. Orthonorm is jealous of hiweot's wit.

I love this unexpected curve ball thrown at us.



Me too! I just wasn't expecting it. As for your numbers...

1. I'm pretty sure I agree...think of how amazing the visitor's maps to the Vatican would be!

2 and 3. Aren't we all? Wink
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« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2012, 06:09:10 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Easy forum, please keep it in y'all pants Wink

After all,


stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #63 on: May 16, 2012, 06:09:36 PM »

1. I'm pretty sure I agree...think of how amazing the visitor's maps to the Vatican would be!

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« Reply #64 on: May 16, 2012, 06:18:07 PM »

Consider also that Protestants are as diverse as the stars. We are not all like those that seem to have upset you sir. We most certainly are not all ‘one group’.

...As I said on another thread (I forget which one) assuming that protestants are one monolithic group makes as little sense as assuming that catholics (Lutherans, Anglicans, Orthodox, and Catholics) are one monolithic group.

I vaguely remember that. Agreed then - agree now. Dare I take it a step further and say some Protestant sects are closer in line with Orthodox and Roman Catholic than they are with other Protestants? I would certainly consider the Church I pray at much closer to Orthodoxy than to a Calvinist Church for example.
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« Reply #65 on: May 16, 2012, 06:34:00 PM »

Wow. I thought Hiwot was like this:  angel, but it turns out she's a little bit like this, too:

What's next...Isa is next in line to become Roman Pope? ZZ's llama is secretly very sad? JamesR really loves Protestantism? I think I need to lay down for a while...

1. I am sure Isa thinks he would be an improvement over the past zillion or so Popes.

2. JamesR is falling in love with hiwot so he no longer has time for anything else

3. Orthonorm is jealous of hiweot's wit.

I love this unexpected curve ball thrown at us.



LOL some days  must feel  like  stepping into the outer limits   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I7vPbthvWo

or this  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKySE6EqQtg   
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« Reply #66 on: May 16, 2012, 06:51:58 PM »

Consider also that Protestants are as diverse as the stars. We are not all like those that seem to have upset you sir. We most certainly are not all ‘one group’.

...As I said on another thread (I forget which one) assuming that protestants are one monolithic group makes as little sense as assuming that catholics (Lutherans, Anglicans, Orthodox, and Catholics) are one monolithic group.

I vaguely remember that. Agreed then - agree now. Dare I take it a step further and say some Protestant sects are closer in line with Orthodox and Roman Catholic than they are with other Protestants? I would certainly consider the Church I pray at much closer to Orthodoxy than to a Calvinist Church for example.

Yes, I think so. I used to wonder "Anglicans and Lutherans, are they Protestant or aren't they?" It was a bit frustrating. Underneath it was my assumption that catholic and protestant are mutually exclusive qualities. Eventually I gave up that assumption, and concluded that Anglicans and Lutherans, are catholic and protestant.
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« Reply #67 on: May 16, 2012, 07:29:06 PM »

Consider also that Protestants are as diverse as the stars. We are not all like those that seem to have upset you sir. We most certainly are not all ‘one group’.

...As I said on another thread (I forget which one) assuming that protestants are one monolithic group makes as little sense as assuming that catholics (Lutherans, Anglicans, Orthodox, and Catholics) are one monolithic group.

I vaguely remember that. Agreed then - agree now. Dare I take it a step further and say some Protestant sects are closer in line with Orthodox and Roman Catholic than they are with other Protestants? I would certainly consider the Church I pray at much closer to Orthodoxy than to a Calvinist Church for example.

Yes, I think so. I used to wonder "Anglicans and Lutherans, are they Protestant or aren't they?" It was a bit frustrating. Underneath it was my assumption that catholic and protestant are mutually exclusive qualities. Eventually I gave up that assumption, and concluded that Anglicans and Lutherans, are catholic and protestant.

Well, um, ya know how I mentioned I don't want to overlook or down play the significant differences?  Wink
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« Reply #68 on: May 16, 2012, 07:34:26 PM »

Consider also that Protestants are as diverse as the stars. We are not all like those that seem to have upset you sir. We most certainly are not all ‘one group’.

...As I said on another thread (I forget which one) assuming that protestants are one monolithic group makes as little sense as assuming that catholics (Lutherans, Anglicans, Orthodox, and Catholics) are one monolithic group.

I vaguely remember that. Agreed then - agree now. Dare I take it a step further and say some Protestant sects are closer in line with Orthodox and Roman Catholic than they are with other Protestants? I would certainly consider the Church I pray at much closer to Orthodoxy than to a Calvinist Church for example.

Yes, I think so. I used to wonder "Anglicans and Lutherans, are they Protestant or aren't they?" It was a bit frustrating. Underneath it was my assumption that catholic and protestant are mutually exclusive qualities. Eventually I gave up that assumption, and concluded that Anglicans and Lutherans, are catholic and protestant.

Well, um, ya know how I mentioned I don't want to overlook or down play the significant differences?  Wink

Yes.  Huh
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« Reply #69 on: May 16, 2012, 07:38:24 PM »

What I don't ever get when Orthodox bag on Protestants is that the blame in my opinion is with Rome. If they didn't have the doctrine of the primacy of their Pope there would have never been a schism, and with no schism probably wouldn't have been the corruption of the Western church, therefore no need for a reformation. I don't think you can universally blame them for "not looking East" because I would imagine communication was hard in those days and they were probably so jaded by concentrated power that they reasonably didn't trust any established church.
Why am I not surprised that this post would come from some one who calls oneself "Happy Lutheran"?  Cheesy
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« Reply #70 on: May 16, 2012, 08:08:39 PM »

I sometimes chuckle when people on this board use "Protestant" as an insult in describing a theological opinion or doctrine that's really liberal or weird and no one thinks anything of it.

If course I'm worse than even that. I insult Roman Catholic liturgies by calling them "protestantized" and I've never been to any kind of Protestant service.
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« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2012, 12:48:58 AM »

Bad wording with the title. Just wanted to point out you said " a little hard on".

there corrected it for you ; you forgot the bad word.  Wink

I'm glad I didn't make that joke earlier in the thread. Much better to let a pious and intelligent woman do it.  Grin

Im late to the party again.  I was too busy going 4-4 on the softball field.  And scoring the winning, walk off run.  Just another Wednesday night...

Anyways... this was hilarious.  Guess I need to think long and hard about the titles of my threads from now on...

...
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« Reply #72 on: May 17, 2012, 06:45:31 AM »

Consider also that Protestants are as diverse as the stars. We are not all like those that seem to have upset you sir. We most certainly are not all ‘one group’.

...As I said on another thread (I forget which one) assuming that protestants are one monolithic group makes as little sense as assuming that catholics (Lutherans, Anglicans, Orthodox, and Catholics) are one monolithic group.

I vaguely remember that. Agreed then - agree now. Dare I take it a step further and say some Protestant sects are closer in line with Orthodox and Roman Catholic than they are with other Protestants? I would certainly consider the Church I pray at much closer to Orthodoxy than to a Calvinist Church for example.

Yes, I think so. I used to wonder "Anglicans and Lutherans, are they Protestant or aren't they?" It was a bit frustrating. Underneath it was my assumption that catholic and protestant are mutually exclusive qualities. Eventually I gave up that assumption, and concluded that Anglicans and Lutherans, are catholic and protestant.

Well, um, ya know how I mentioned I don't want to overlook or down play the significant differences?  Wink

Yes.  Huh

P.S. The reason I added Huh is b/c I'm not sure what you're driving at. I completely agree that there are significant differences among
protestant groups (e.g. Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians, etc.) and among different catholic groups (Lutherans, Anglicans, Orthodox, and Catholics).
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« Reply #73 on: May 17, 2012, 07:14:24 AM »

Consider also that Protestants are as diverse as the stars. We are not all like those that seem to have upset you sir. We most certainly are not all ‘one group’.

...As I said on another thread (I forget which one) assuming that protestants are one monolithic group makes as little sense as assuming that catholics (Lutherans, Anglicans, Orthodox, and Catholics) are one monolithic group.

I vaguely remember that. Agreed then - agree now. Dare I take it a step further and say some Protestant sects are closer in line with Orthodox and Roman Catholic than they are with other Protestants? I would certainly consider the Church I pray at much closer to Orthodoxy than to a Calvinist Church for example.

Yes, I think so. I used to wonder "Anglicans and Lutherans, are they Protestant or aren't they?" It was a bit frustrating. Underneath it was my assumption that catholic and protestant are mutually exclusive qualities. Eventually I gave up that assumption, and concluded that Anglicans and Lutherans, are catholic and protestant.

Whatever you do don't say that to my mother. She'd agree about High Church Anglicans but not Lutherans. Her, frankly horrific, phrase shortly after she found out I was converting was 'I may not be a good Christian but I'm a DAMN good Protestant', emphasis in the original. I used to joke that she made Iain Paisley look like a Catholic and she's been a staunch Lutheran all her life. She used to rail against our icons and wasn't amused at all when I pointed out Luther's views on the Theotokos or the fact that her home church is full of statuary. She's calmed down a lot (probably in no small part due to the fact that I've stopped being so openly anti-Protestant - it certainly doesn't help matters to be antagonistic even when you know you're right Wink)and seems to have accepted my faith over the last ten years but catholic, to her, would be almost synonymous with heretic, I think.

James
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« Reply #74 on: May 17, 2012, 07:41:17 AM »

Protestantism is spiritual cancer....
The Quakers are pretty good.
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« Reply #75 on: May 17, 2012, 07:51:18 AM »

Consider also that Protestants are as diverse as the stars. We are not all like those that seem to have upset you sir. We most certainly are not all ‘one group’.

...As I said on another thread (I forget which one) assuming that protestants are one monolithic group makes as little sense as assuming that catholics (Lutherans, Anglicans, Orthodox, and Catholics) are one monolithic group.

I vaguely remember that. Agreed then - agree now. Dare I take it a step further and say some Protestant sects are closer in line with Orthodox and Roman Catholic than they are with other Protestants? I would certainly consider the Church I pray at much closer to Orthodoxy than to a Calvinist Church for example.

Yes, I think so. I used to wonder "Anglicans and Lutherans, are they Protestant or aren't they?" It was a bit frustrating. Underneath it was my assumption that catholic and protestant are mutually exclusive qualities. Eventually I gave up that assumption, and concluded that Anglicans and Lutherans, are catholic and protestant.

Whatever you do don't say that to my mother. She'd agree about High Church Anglicans but not Lutherans.

You mean, she's loathe to call Lutherans "catholic"? I guess that's probably not terribly uncommon.

P.S. Since I tend to read, and to some extent write, about this stuff a lot, I tend to forget that when somebody says "catholic" you can't tell if the c is capitalized.  Shocked  Wink (Ditto for "Protestant"/"protestant", although that one's not much of an issue.)
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« Reply #76 on: May 17, 2012, 08:13:41 AM »

Consider also that Protestants are as diverse as the stars. We are not all like those that seem to have upset you sir. We most certainly are not all ‘one group’.

...As I said on another thread (I forget which one) assuming that protestants are one monolithic group makes as little sense as assuming that catholics (Lutherans, Anglicans, Orthodox, and Catholics) are one monolithic group.

I vaguely remember that. Agreed then - agree now. Dare I take it a step further and say some Protestant sects are closer in line with Orthodox and Roman Catholic than they are with other Protestants? I would certainly consider the Church I pray at much closer to Orthodoxy than to a Calvinist Church for example.

Yes, I think so. I used to wonder "Anglicans and Lutherans, are they Protestant or aren't they?" It was a bit frustrating. Underneath it was my assumption that catholic and protestant are mutually exclusive qualities. Eventually I gave up that assumption, and concluded that Anglicans and Lutherans, are catholic and protestant.

Well, um, ya know how I mentioned I don't want to overlook or down play the significant differences?  Wink

Yes.  Huh

P.S. The reason I added Huh is b/c I'm not sure what you're driving at. I completely agree that there are significant differences among
protestant groups (e.g. Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians, etc.) and among different catholic groups (Lutherans, Anglicans, Orthodox, and Catholics).

That was a little vague Peter. Sorry! It was also a little lazy. I was ready for dinner and bed!  Smiley

I was just suggesting that because of the significant differences I wouldn't go as far as to say Anglican and Lutheran are Catholic and Protestant. To my limited knowledge they are indeed the closest to Catholicism. I think (?) you and I might agree (I realize many might strongly object) that Anglican, Lutheran, and Catholic are part of the Body of Christ and in that way, plus their similarities I suppose, they are not mutually exclusive of each other. By basic text book definition though, I would have to say Anglican and Lutheran are Protestants. 

I would also say (in spirit of the OP) and I’m thinking you may agree to some extent, we sure do get caught up in the labels don’t we?
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« Reply #77 on: May 17, 2012, 08:18:54 AM »

Consider also that Protestants are as diverse as the stars. We are not all like those that seem to have upset you sir. We most certainly are not all ‘one group’.

...As I said on another thread (I forget which one) assuming that protestants are one monolithic group makes as little sense as assuming that catholics (Lutherans, Anglicans, Orthodox, and Catholics) are one monolithic group.

I vaguely remember that. Agreed then - agree now. Dare I take it a step further and say some Protestant sects are closer in line with Orthodox and Roman Catholic than they are with other Protestants? I would certainly consider the Church I pray at much closer to Orthodoxy than to a Calvinist Church for example.

Yes, I think so. I used to wonder "Anglicans and Lutherans, are they Protestant or aren't they?" It was a bit frustrating. Underneath it was my assumption that catholic and protestant are mutually exclusive qualities. Eventually I gave up that assumption, and concluded that Anglicans and Lutherans, are catholic and protestant.

Whatever you do don't say that to my mother. She'd agree about High Church Anglicans but not Lutherans.

You mean, she's loathe to call Lutherans "catholic"? I guess that's probably not terribly uncommon.

I think that might be rather an understatement but yes. I know where you're coming from and I kind of agree with you but Lutheranism tends to encompass all sorts (though I don't it ever really goes as catholic as High Church Anglicanism) and there are certainly an awful lot of VERY Protestant Lutherans just as there are Anglicans. I think you could say that the two churches are both catholic and protestant, but I think within those two churches most individuals probably fall to one side more than the other (and most Lutherans I know are decidedly Protestant while many if not most of the Anglicans I know would definitely fall more under the catholic banner).

James
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« Reply #78 on: May 17, 2012, 08:50:30 AM »

I completely agree that there are significant differences among protestant groups (e.g. Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians, etc.) and among different catholic groups (Lutherans, Anglicans, Orthodox, and Catholics).

That was a little vague Peter. Sorry! It was also a little lazy. I was ready for dinner and bed!  Smiley

I was just suggesting that because of the significant differences I wouldn't go as far as to say Anglican and Lutheran are Catholic and Protestant.

I wouldn't either though. I say that they're catholic and protestant, which isn't the same thing. To me, Catholic is a proper name, just like Anglican and Lutheran are proper names. On the other hand, adjectives like catholic, protestant, apostolic, conservative, progressive etc can be applied to many different groups. For example, Lutherans, Calvinists, and Baptists aren't very similar to each other, but they're all protestant. Tall people don't all look alike. Grin
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« Reply #79 on: May 17, 2012, 11:40:37 AM »

Consider also that Protestants are as diverse as the stars. We are not all like those that seem to have upset you sir. We most certainly are not all ‘one group’.

...As I said on another thread (I forget which one) assuming that protestants are one monolithic group makes as little sense as assuming that catholics (Lutherans, Anglicans, Orthodox, and Catholics) are one monolithic group.

I vaguely remember that. Agreed then - agree now. Dare I take it a step further and say some Protestant sects are closer in line with Orthodox and Roman Catholic than they are with other Protestants? I would certainly consider the Church I pray at much closer to Orthodoxy than to a Calvinist Church for example.

Yes, I think so. I used to wonder "Anglicans and Lutherans, are they Protestant or aren't they?" It was a bit frustrating. Underneath it was my assumption that catholic and protestant are mutually exclusive qualities. Eventually I gave up that assumption, and concluded that Anglicans and Lutherans, are catholic and protestant.

Whatever you do don't say that to my mother. She'd agree about High Church Anglicans but not Lutherans.

You mean, she's loathe to call Lutherans "catholic"? I guess that's probably not terribly uncommon.



I used to know a Lutheran pastor who would introduce himself as a Catholic of the Augsburg Confession.
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« Reply #80 on: May 17, 2012, 12:05:56 PM »

Quote
Catholic catholic of the Augsburg Confession
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« Reply #81 on: May 17, 2012, 01:06:20 PM »

I completely agree that there are significant differences among protestant groups (e.g. Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians, etc.) and among different catholic groups (Lutherans, Anglicans, Orthodox, and Catholics).

That was a little vague Peter. Sorry! It was also a little lazy. I was ready for dinner and bed!  Smiley

I was just suggesting that because of the significant differences I wouldn't go as far as to say Anglican and Lutheran are Catholic and Protestant.

I wouldn't either though. I say that they're catholic and protestant, which isn't the same thing. To me, Catholic is a proper name, just like Anglican and Lutheran are proper names. On the other hand, adjectives like catholic, protestant, apostolic, conservative, progressive etc can be applied to many different groups. For example, Lutherans, Calvinists, and Baptists aren't very similar to each other, but they're all protestant. Tall people don't all look alike. Grin

Gotcha. I kinda mis-understood what you said then.

Peace & Grace
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« Reply #82 on: May 17, 2012, 02:30:04 PM »

Smiley
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« Reply #83 on: May 17, 2012, 08:04:16 PM »

hard on
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« Reply #84 on: May 17, 2012, 08:13:54 PM »

hard on

Did you forget what you said 2 days ago, or is it just that funny to you?  police
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« Reply #85 on: May 17, 2012, 08:55:50 PM »

hard on

Did you forget what you said 2 days ago, or is it just that funny to you?  police

*snicker*
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« Reply #86 on: May 17, 2012, 09:12:01 PM »

  I have at times been a little hard on other protestants and I feel like it has done more harm than good.  

Depends.  If you're talking about liberal Protestants, replete with homosexual bishops/pastors, clown masses, etc... there's no end to the ridicule and scorn they deserve.  I'm not talking about a Fred Phelps-style smackdown, just good 'ol fashioned ridicule.  These people are idiots and a danger for being wolves posing as sheep!
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« Reply #87 on: May 17, 2012, 09:21:34 PM »

How much damage has Protestantism caused to the world? I expect to see a good response from augustin.
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« Reply #88 on: May 17, 2012, 09:28:22 PM »

  I have at times been a little hard on other protestants and I feel like it has done more harm than good.  

Depends.  If you're talking about liberal Protestants, replete with homosexual bishops/pastors, clown masses, etc...

You seem to have anti-Protestantism mixed up with anti-Catholicism.  Embarrassed You should make it a habit to keep them in two separate drawers. Smiley
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« Reply #89 on: May 17, 2012, 09:40:02 PM »

  I have at times been a little hard on other protestants and I feel like it has done more harm than good.  

Depends.  If you're talking about liberal Protestants, replete with homosexual bishops/pastors, clown masses, etc...

You seem to have anti-Protestantism mixed up with anti-Catholicism.  Embarrassed You should make it a habit to keep them in two separate drawers. :
clown masses are hardly a Roman Catholic phenomenon. The Episcopal Church is quite fond of them, along with their U2charists.
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