Author Topic: Conversion and waiting on spouses  (Read 5027 times)

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Offline Thomas

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2013, 10:13:21 AM »
There is a shorter version of the crowning ceremony called a marriage blessing, the Antiochins use it occassionally in these cases---I do not know if the OCA does. The Greeks go through the whole ceremony without the hoopla of the rerceptione etc as long as the other partner is baptized in the correct Trinitarian Formula, the last I heard the  Methodist baptism is adequate to meet those requirements. We did our on on 15th Wedding Anniversary, it might be a way to do it that she will accept as a renewal of vows.

Thomas
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Offline mabsoota

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2013, 01:26:38 PM »
ermycath,
baptism/chrismation/etc. should only be done for someone who wants to be an orthodox Christian.
it should never be done for the purposes of marriage (like you can 'fool' God!) but only for individual need and request.
you can only be remarried to your spouse if you are both orthodox, and definitely this is not an area on which you should put pressure on your spouse, who is on her own spiritual journey and who has a very important personal relationship with God.

so if you are orthodox and your wife remains catholic, this should still be considered a valid marriage, especially as you married in a church whose sacraments are recognised by the orthodox church.
you should certainly be allowed to be orthodox and have confession and take Holy Communion while your wife remains catholic and able to attend services with you (if she wants to) and not take Holy Communion.
there is no need to rush here; God knows both your hearts and loves you both greatly.

when i became orthodox (with my husband's permission), he remained protestant, and i have had no problems in taking Holy Communion because of this. i am in an oriental orthodox church (coptic), but from all i have read about eastern orthodox churches and from my experience with EO friends, the principle is the same in EO churches.

so i would suggest you discuss this with your priest again, and maybe ask another priest if you don't manage to understand each other on this issue, as putting pressure on a spouse to 'convert' and have a church marriage is not what an orthodox priest should normally do.
feel free to send a personal message if you wish, as i have met (in real life and on line) plenty of couples where only one is orthodox.
i am glad that thomas' story was so happy (sounds great!) and i pray that yours will be too, as you grow in love and patience.
 :)

Offline RehamG

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2013, 03:06:05 PM »
ermycath,
baptism/chrismation/etc. should only be done for someone who wants to be an orthodox Christian.
it should never be done for the purposes of marriage (like you can 'fool' God!) but only for individual need and request.
you can only be remarried to your spouse if you are both orthodox, and definitely this is not an area on which you should put pressure on your spouse, who is on her own spiritual journey and who has a very important personal relationship with God.

so if you are orthodox and your wife remains catholic, this should still be considered a valid marriage, especially as you married in a church whose sacraments are recognised by the orthodox church.
you should certainly be allowed to be orthodox and have confession and take Holy Communion while your wife remains catholic and able to attend services with you (if she wants to) and not take Holy Communion.
there is no need to rush here; God knows both your hearts and loves you both greatly.

when i became orthodox (with my husband's permission), he remained protestant, and i have had no problems in taking Holy Communion because of this. i am in an oriental orthodox church (coptic), but from all i have read about eastern orthodox churches and from my experience with EO friends, the principle is the same in EO churches.

so i would suggest you discuss this with your priest again, and maybe ask another priest if you don't manage to understand each other on this issue, as putting pressure on a spouse to 'convert' and have a church marriage is not what an orthodox priest should normally do.
feel free to send a personal message if you wish, as i have met (in real life and on line) plenty of couples where only one is orthodox.
i am glad that thomas' story was so happy (sounds great!) and i pray that yours will be too, as you grow in love and patience.
 :)

+1
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Offline ErmyCath

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2013, 03:13:25 PM »
Thank you for your replies. I have spoken to my priest about it quite a bit, so I am sure there is no miscommunication. 

I appreciate very much your reply about not pressuring my wife, and I think I am doing okay with that now. It is just as important for her to remain Catholic as it is for me to convert to Orthodoxy.  I have suggested the "renewal of vows" idea that Thomas mentioned as I think it's a good way to view things. But, no traction so far.

I just wish there were some way out of this impasse so that I wasn't stuck between the two with no place to call home (to put it melodramatically).

Any former Catholics out there who've solved this (or priests who can chime in)?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 03:13:48 PM by ErmyCath »
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Offline mabsoota

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2013, 05:34:07 PM »
your home is in heaven.
you visit there when you worship God.
He will reward your patience and diligent searching.
is you getting chrismated 1st an option?

Offline phronesis

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2013, 09:48:20 PM »
Oh do I empathize. I recounted my own story here: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,46265.msg853304.html

This is such a hard issue. My only advice is to pray without ceasing. I still think my wife's conversion was nothing short of a minor miracle.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #51 on: November 07, 2013, 08:16:01 AM »
Oh do I empathize. I recounted my own story here: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,46265.msg853304.html

This is such a hard issue. My only advice is to pray without ceasing. I still think my wife's conversion was nothing short of a minor miracle.
A beautiful testimony.  Many years to your family!
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #52 on: November 13, 2013, 08:00:37 PM »
Thank you for your replies. I have spoken to my priest about it quite a bit, so I am sure there is no miscommunication. 

I appreciate very much your reply about not pressuring my wife, and I think I am doing okay with that now. It is just as important for her to remain Catholic as it is for me to convert to Orthodoxy.  I have suggested the "renewal of vows" idea that Thomas mentioned as I think it's a good way to view things. But, no traction so far.

I just wish there were some way out of this impasse so that I wasn't stuck between the two with no place to call home (to put it melodramatically).

Any former Catholics out there who've solved this (or priests who can chime in)?
My wife is Methodist, but if I told her that I needed her to have a second wedding ceremony so I could join the Orthodox Church, I'm pretty sure she would beat me over the head with a tire iron.  I've never heard of requiring a non-converting spouse to do that.
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Offline ErmyCath

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #53 on: November 13, 2013, 09:35:52 PM »
Thank you for your replies. I have spoken to my priest about it quite a bit, so I am sure there is no miscommunication. 

I appreciate very much your reply about not pressuring my wife, and I think I am doing okay with that now. It is just as important for her to remain Catholic as it is for me to convert to Orthodoxy.  I have suggested the "renewal of vows" idea that Thomas mentioned as I think it's a good way to view things. But, no traction so far.

I just wish there were some way out of this impasse so that I wasn't stuck between the two with no place to call home (to put it melodramatically).

Any former Catholics out there who've solved this (or priests who can chime in)?
My wife is Methodist, but if I told her that I needed her to have a second wedding ceremony so I could join the Orthodox Church, I'm pretty sure she would beat me over the head with a tire iron.  I've never heard of requiring a non-converting spouse to do that.

On the other hand, I can't exactly go to my priest and say, "Everyone on OC.net says they've never heard of a priest requiring what you're requiring."  I don't know how to handle it...
"You must have an opinion on everything and loudly confront everyone with it." - Cyrillic

Offline mabsoota

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2013, 03:50:09 AM »
maybe write to the bishop?
this is the normal thing to do if there is a disagreement that can't be resolved within your local church.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #55 on: November 15, 2013, 07:47:45 AM »
maybe write to the bishop?
this is the normal thing to do if there is a disagreement that can't be resolved within your local church.

+1! This would clear up any confusion.  OC.net ain't the Church. :P
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Online elephant

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2013, 08:30:11 AM »
Dear ErmyCath,
 
I am a member of a GOA Church.  I have certainly seen people received into the Church before without their spouse joining.  I'm quite sure a previous marriage is not officially an impediment to being received into the church.  That would not rule out pastoral concerns, of course. 

I'd also have a conversation with your Catholic priest to clear up any misconceptions about the view of the Catholic Church about Orthodox sacraments. 

Best of all to you.  Love, elephant

Offline serb1389

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #57 on: November 15, 2013, 08:55:02 PM »
maybe write to the bishop?
this is the normal thing to do if there is a disagreement that can't be resolved within your local church.

This is usually a bad idea in non OO churches my friend.  Most priests do NOT like it when you go over their head.  if you want to remain on good terms with your priest, I wouldn't recommend this.  Or at LEAST let your priest know that you plan on doing it.  

I would imagine most priests are going to do the heavy lifting FOR you.  For example...write the letter to the bishop themselves.  
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 08:55:17 PM by serb1389 »
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2013, 09:01:09 PM »
It's usually a bad idea in OO churches as well, Father, but maybe Copts are the exception.  :) 
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Offline ErmyCath

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2013, 12:52:36 PM »
I don't think I'll write the bishop. I am rather close with my priest and don't want to go around him.

With that said, I am a little concerned that this requirement seems out of the ordinary to you all... I don't know what to make of that.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2013, 01:12:34 PM »
I don't want to be rude, so I apologise if the question is inelegant, but what exactly is the objection of the non-Orthodox spouses to going through an Orthodox marriage rite with the convert spouses?
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Offline genesisone

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2013, 01:45:38 PM »
I don't want to be rude, so I apologise if the question is inelegant, but what exactly is the objection of the non-Orthodox spouses to going through an Orthodox marriage rite with the convert spouses?
I think my wife harbours some thought that I will abandon Orthodoxy and return to Evangelical Protestantism. There's not a chance that she would even discuss her participation in any Orthodox rite. (That being said, some cracks have appeared lately in her façade - I'm still looking forward to her accepting my choice of spiritual growth and direction - not necessarily that she would become Orthodox, but that she would be supportive and appreciative of my spiritual life.)

There is also the argument that "What? Doesn't the Orthodox Church think I'm good enough? Are they saying I'm not even a Christian?!?"

Offline ErmyCath

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2013, 01:55:06 PM »
I don't want to be rude, so I apologise if the question is inelegant, but what exactly is the objection of the non-Orthodox spouses to going through an Orthodox marriage rite with the convert spouses?

In addition to what genesisone said, which is also somewhat applicable to my situation, the Roman Church has a lot of rules about participating in non-Catholic ceremonies.  If you look at the Catholic Answers site, for example, a lot of questions come in about whether it is okay to go to such-and-such wedding.  This is all the more problematic when that ceremony would be your own.  It is further complicated by the fact that my wife and I are already sacramentally married according to the Roman Church, which brings into the equation the idea of "repeating Sacraments," which is blasphemy from the Roman perspective--analogize that to being baptized again.

I can imagine that most Protestant spouses wouldn't have these particular hang-ups, but these are valid concerns for my Catholic wife and also for me.  Whether these are really sinful or not is a complicated question, but it is difficult that this situation has arisen.
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Offline mabsoota

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2013, 07:16:56 PM »
also if the spouse does not want to join the orthodox church it is really wrong for them to pretend and go through the motions.
this is exactly what orthodoxy is NOT.
and i can assure you it certainly is a problem for protestants!

about writing to the bishop, i am not suggesting you go over the priest's head, but is seems like you are in a really impossible situation and i can't imagine it is right for you to just stay as you are and suffer like that, when all the orthodox Christians here and some others i know (that is quite a few!) have said that you DON'T automatically have to get your spouse chrismated / baptised too. i know really plenty of people from different orthodox churches who are in the church without their spouse, and sometimes the spouse comes to social occasions or Bible studies and sometimes they are at a different place in their spiritual journey.

no, we don't tend to go to our bishop over our priest's heads, but our bishops are really approachable and whenever a bishop visits, there is always a big queue of people who line up for hours to discuss their problems with the bishop (usually after lunch, we take care of our bishops!) i have met all the (4) uk bishops and at least 3 visiting bishops from egypt and they are all really approachable and lovely.
our priests are too.
but if there was a dispute that could not be resolved, it would be normal to involve a bishop.

is it different in EO churches?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 07:17:15 PM by mabsoota »

Offline hecma925

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2013, 07:53:50 PM »
My priest would talk with the Dean or the Bishop if a question like this came up.  Then again, my priest has not told me to bring my wife to bless my marriage, so that isn't an issue.

To ErmyCath:

Everyone has hang-ups of one sort or another, even those coming from one flavor of Protestantism or another.  You are doing the right thing of being open with your priest, but AFAIK it is not the norm to encourage a spouse that is not into the whole conversion process to be involved with a marriage blessing.  When the time comes and your wife is ready, then go for it.
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Offline Christina

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #65 on: November 20, 2013, 01:02:02 PM »
I was listening to some AFR the other day and it mentioned that many priests say not to attend DL without their spouse.

I wasn't told not to attend without my spouse.  In fact, I'm converting without him.  The priest's only concern was whether or not my husband minded at all.  He doesn't.

Usually its the men that want to attend first.

It wasn't his idea.  I think his original plan was to find a church we could drop into and out of without being noticed.

And that some need to wait years and years on their spouse.

You never know.  It's his path, not mine.

I wonder what do they do in the interim?  Obviously read the bible, the fathers etc  I also assume morning & evening prayers, fasting, and work on... well growing in Christ.

If I couldn't go to church without my spouse, I'd find it very hard indeed to grow spiritually.  While there are many books available to expand knowledge, I think the lack of fellowship and support would cause most to become quite lax spiritually.
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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #66 on: November 20, 2013, 01:23:12 PM »
My parish priest and I have discussed my wife once, the day I told him I was ready to go from inquirer to catechumen:

Priest: "And your wife is...?"

Me: "She's staying Catholic for the time being and supports my decision to convert."

Priest: "Okay, then, let's take a look at the calendar and set a date."

Aside from asking after her health and whatnot, that's the most we've talked about her.
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Offline Hinterlander

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #67 on: March 30, 2015, 11:19:34 PM »
I am bumping this thread because my spouse is staunchly opposed to even attending the Divine Liturgy again after visiting only once.  I have been able to attend several times this Lent on my own because of additional services.  My inquiry is about three years old at this point.

Anyone from this thread have updates?  Any new stories out there?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 11:19:53 PM by Hinterlander »

Offline Timon

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2015, 07:21:16 AM »
I am bumping this thread because my spouse is staunchly opposed to even attending the Divine Liturgy again after visiting only once.  I have been able to attend several times this Lent on my own because of additional services.  My inquiry is about three years old at this point.

Anyone from this thread have updates?  Any new stories out there?

Thats difficult, and I hate that for you. However, I know many people who had the same experience and they and their wives are now Orthodox. Do you have a lot of people your age at your parish? If you have friends there, try and hang out with them outside of Church and bring your spouse with you. We are mid/late twenties and we are fortunate enough to have a parish in a "hip, in-town" neighborhood with lots of folks our age. Once those people became some of our closest friends, and we hung out regularly outside of Church, it really helped my wife open up to attending regularly and eventually converting. I work a lot on Sundays, so she actually attended without me even before formally converting.

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Offline Alxandra

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #69 on: March 31, 2015, 08:06:26 AM »
Lord have mercy
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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #70 on: March 31, 2015, 08:45:43 AM »
My parish priest and I have discussed my wife once, the day I told him I was ready to go from inquirer to catechumen:

Priest: "And your wife is...?"

Me: "She's staying Catholic for the time being and supports my decision to convert."

Priest: "Okay, then, let's take a look at the calendar and set a date."

Aside from asking after her health and whatnot, that's the most we've talked about her.

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #71 on: March 31, 2015, 09:18:25 AM »
My parish priest and I have discussed my wife once, the day I told him I was ready to go from inquirer to catechumen:

Priest: "And your wife is...?"

Me: "She's staying Catholic for the time being and supports my decision to convert."

Priest: "Okay, then, let's take a look at the calendar and set a date."

Aside from asking after her health and whatnot, that's the most we've talked about her.

Is the wife of every man's fantasy ... Not actually real

Can you please just stop?  For heaven's sake.
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Offline mabsoota

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #72 on: March 31, 2015, 02:33:20 PM »
dear hinterlander,
can you go to social events together?
what about Bible studies?
or even vespers?

what is it she does not like?
if she does not mind, see if you can go to one of the services next week; nearly all orthodox churches have extra services during Holy Week,
and if she is not interested, go alone and make it up to her later (e.g. by watching some awful movie she likes with her)

(sorry if i don't reply later, i have almost no internet this week)

Offline Hinterlander

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #73 on: March 31, 2015, 03:48:31 PM »
I am bumping this thread because my spouse is staunchly opposed to even attending the Divine Liturgy again after visiting only once.  I have been able to attend several times this Lent on my own because of additional services.  My inquiry is about three years old at this point.

Anyone from this thread have updates?  Any new stories out there?

Thats difficult, and I hate that for you. However, I know many people who had the same experience and they and their wives are now Orthodox. Do you have a lot of people your age at your parish? If you have friends there, try and hang out with them outside of Church and bring your spouse with you. We are mid/late twenties and we are fortunate enough to have a parish in a "hip, in-town" neighborhood with lots of folks our age. Once those people became some of our closest friends, and we hung out regularly outside of Church, it really helped my wife open up to attending regularly and eventually converting. I work a lot on Sundays, so she actually attended without me even before formally converting.

This is a good idea but at this point I am only barely acquainted with some Orthodox people at the parish I've visited. The issue here isn't conversion as I'm not even close to that point . . . It is the difficulty of attending a parish with any sort of regularity without forsaking my wife and the church community we are accustomed to.

Offline Timon

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #74 on: March 31, 2015, 04:36:45 PM »
I am bumping this thread because my spouse is staunchly opposed to even attending the Divine Liturgy again after visiting only once.  I have been able to attend several times this Lent on my own because of additional services.  My inquiry is about three years old at this point.

Anyone from this thread have updates?  Any new stories out there?

Thats difficult, and I hate that for you. However, I know many people who had the same experience and they and their wives are now Orthodox. Do you have a lot of people your age at your parish? If you have friends there, try and hang out with them outside of Church and bring your spouse with you. We are mid/late twenties and we are fortunate enough to have a parish in a "hip, in-town" neighborhood with lots of folks our age. Once those people became some of our closest friends, and we hung out regularly outside of Church, it really helped my wife open up to attending regularly and eventually converting. I work a lot on Sundays, so she actually attended without me even before formally converting.

This is a good idea but at this point I am only barely acquainted with some Orthodox people at the parish I've visited. The issue here isn't conversion as I'm not even close to that point . . . It is the difficulty of attending a parish with any sort of regularity without forsaking my wife and the church community we are accustomed to.

I can relate to that as well. Try to attend other services during the week that won't compromise your current situation. When I say I "work" on Sunday's, I mean that I am a contract musician for a large mega church in the area. If I'm honest, I enjoy playing guitar there and some of my greatest friends are there also. But the income is something that I can't afford to lose right now. The downside is not being able to attend liturgy a lot of Sunday's. Fortunately my parish serves liturgy on Saturday mornings as well. Few others seem to have that luxury. Try and go to vespers and meet some people!
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #75 on: March 31, 2015, 07:31:57 PM »
I am bumping this thread because my spouse is staunchly opposed to even attending the Divine Liturgy again after visiting only once.  I have been able to attend several times this Lent on my own because of additional services.  My inquiry is about three years old at this point.

Anyone from this thread have updates?  Any new stories out there?
I don't have any new stories, but at least I haven't gotten any shoes thrown at my head recently.  When I first started attending Divine Liturgy regularly, it was warfare every Sunday morning. Now, she will even shush the kids when I'm doing my morning prayers, so I see that as a step in the right direction.  She is still absolutely adamant that I not join and that she will never go again, so there is definitely room for improvement, but at least our marriage is not suffering.
Will we all have to prove our Orthodoxy by adopting St Nicholas avatars now?

Offline JTLoganville

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #76 on: March 31, 2015, 09:48:45 PM »
I made the major mistake of having my spouse's first exposure to Orthodoxy be Vespers 9plus Divine Liturgy for the Nativity of St. John the Baptist.  It was all in English but 2 1/2 hours was too much.

A friend suggested "just do Vespers"....it took three years until she was ready to do Vespers, but her pace rapidly accelerated and eventually surged ahead of mine.

Long story short--we were both Chrismated last Saturday...just about exactly 4 years and 9 months after that first visit.

Offline vamrat

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #77 on: March 31, 2015, 10:10:41 PM »
I brought one of my exes to Liturgy and then to a Vespers later on.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline SilentShadow

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #78 on: April 07, 2015, 11:11:43 AM »
I know several couples who have been in this situation. It was tough at first, but all of them eventually agreed to go their separate ways, religiously speaking, and attend different churches.

I'm personally of a mind that, while the marital relationship is of utmost importance and a common faith should be shared if at all possible, nevertheless it is not fair for one spouse to demand the other to violate their conscience or their faith. It is better to attend different churches than for one to force the other to attend a church they don't subscribe to.

It is even more complicated when kids are involved, because they have to basically choose a side, and it's a big decision for young kids to make. In most cases, the conversion process takes a lot longer, to allow for the family to get comfortable and sort things out.

And incidentally, I only personally know of one couple in which a wife became Orthodox without her husband. The opposite seems much more common.

I am in this exact situation right now. Was Chrismated into ROCOR in 2012...married a funadmentalist in 2013 (who initially had said I could attend church every other sunday, and then the other sundays go to church with him at his church) but was ultimately and angrily and forcefully forced out from "demonic idol worship."  I regret so deeply my lack of integrity, failing to stand up for what i knew was right, and loving myself more than I loved God and failing to honor my vow to God.   Now, I am in such a sorry state spiritually, continue to read and pray on my own (though only certain "approved" materials are allowed into the home and i have gotten in trouble periodically for "wasting time reading that BS" and so forth) and am trying to get back to where I belong, never should have left in the first place...and oh am i facing scary bad opposition.  scary to me anyway. someone with a backbone would probably just laugh it off. But yeah, i get the, "If there was a God, he wouldn't do this to me!" guilt trip rant and listening to anything i say, that just doesn't happen. I've been "brainwashed by those heathen."

So this is one of those situations of the wife trying to crawl back home, facing fierce opposition that may cost me, literally, everything.

Offline wlee4048

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #79 on: April 07, 2015, 11:50:59 AM »
I can relate to this.  I grew up in a Baptist family (father was a preacher), married a RC and have been married for 17 years.  My children accompanied me to church every Sunday.  My wife had no problems with the kids being brought up in the Baptist faith.  About a year ago she brought up the topic of the original church and how the RC church is the one and only true church and that it was the first church in Christian history.  So, I decided to do my own research and that's how I found the Orthodox faith.  I  attended one DL a few months ago and left with a sense that, wow this is different. I felt like I was not attending a rock concert, but actually worshipping.  I went home and told my wife of my experience and that's when the fun began. She hit the roof and said she couldn't understand why I would pursue the Orthodox faith and that in no way my kids were ever to attend.  How could I go to a church with all the icon worshipping, incense, etc.?  This coming from a RC surprised me.  I decided just to listen and let her vent.  I explained to her that I was just beginning my journey and that I was not suggesting that she convert. 

Fast forward...she has been asking questions about the Orthodox church and wants to know when I am going to my next service. The only thing I can say is that God works in mysterious ways.  I have been corresponding with a priest in my area and he said to be patient and let the Lord to his work.  Your prayers would be appreciated because patience is not one of my virtues.

Offline SilentShadow

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #80 on: April 07, 2015, 12:00:35 PM »
I was just told again, for the billionth time, to leave his house and never come back, kids and all.  :-[

Offline wlee4048

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #81 on: April 07, 2015, 12:08:57 PM »
I think I have heard that line before too!

Offline Timon

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #82 on: April 07, 2015, 12:26:32 PM »
I was just told again, for the billionth time, to leave his house and never come back, kids and all.  :-[

Wait... your husband is saying that? Because of your faith?
Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved.

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Offline SilentShadow

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2015, 12:30:45 PM »
Yes. either that or conform to his image of what he thinks a christian should be...and its certainly not that "orthodox bs" (his words obviously).

Offline Timon

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2015, 12:42:52 PM »
I am terribly sorry to hear that. I do not know what to say to that. Thats certainly not how a husband should talk to his wife.
Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved.

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Offline SilentShadow

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2015, 12:55:52 PM »
Not the first time he's said it. then changes his mind. then wants counseling. then doesn't. then ptsd kicks in and it can get scary (mentally/emotionally). I'm trying my best but any mention of anything that is even slightly different from how he thinks is devilish and wrong and evil  - even if he askes me a question, it is all to get me to answer so he can tear it to shreds, not to really understand.

Offline SilentShadow

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #86 on: April 07, 2015, 12:57:45 PM »
i can either be orthodox, or stay married, but not both. silly thing is...i've been just as i am now the whole time.  the only thing that changed is that i asked to visit a church last weekend that i felt like that was how God was leading me...i went and have been paying a heavy price for it since.

Offline biro

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #87 on: April 07, 2015, 12:58:56 PM »
I was just told again, for the billionth time, to leave his house and never come back, kids and all.  :-[

Lord have mercy.  :'(
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Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #88 on: April 07, 2015, 01:49:09 PM »
Not the first time he's said it. then changes his mind. then wants counseling. then doesn't. then ptsd kicks in and it can get scary (mentally/emotionally). I'm trying my best but any mention of anything that is even slightly different from how he thinks is devilish and wrong and evil  - even if he askes me a question, it is all to get me to answer so he can tear it to shreds, not to really understand.

I'm certainly no therapist or professional, but this doesn't sound like it's about religion at all. It's about power and control.
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Offline SilentShadow

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Re: Conversion and waiting on spouses
« Reply #89 on: April 07, 2015, 01:57:55 PM »
Right...just the current trigger that has triggered one of his verbal rampages.  Could be anything, but this is his favorite topic to hate on.  :'(