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Offline 2tandem

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Icon
« on: July 19, 2017, 06:57:46 PM »
Not sure if this is the correct area for this - but while in Greece recently I purchased an Icon from the Pefkis Byzantine Icons company.  I would like some help in interpreting the Greek letters on it if that's OK.

I will say this little Icon is a source of inspiration to me. 


Thank You!

Mike

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Icon
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2017, 07:30:31 PM »
Welcome to the forum!

There are a bunch of letters there, I will explain the best I can.

IC XC is the abbreviation for Jesus Christ (Iesus Christos) - I is J in Greek, X is Ch in Greek, C is S in Greek

Kalos Poimen is "Good Shepherd"

The letters in the halo that look like OWN stand for "He Who Is"

Hope that answers your questions, if any of that is confusing, we can try to clear it up for you!  :)


P.s. Another thing that might be of interest to you. Red signifies humanity within iconography, and blue symbolizes the heavens and that which is not of this world.  Christ is almost always depicted with a red undergarment showing His humanity, and a blue cloak, showing He is not of this world. The gold stripe demonstrates His divinity.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 07:41:50 PM by TheTrisagion »
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Icon
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 07:49:07 PM »
double post
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 07:49:24 PM by TheTrisagion »
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Offline MalpanaGiwargis

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Re: Icon
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 08:17:47 PM »
P.s. Another thing that might be of interest to you. Red signifies humanity within iconography, and blue symbolizes the heavens and that which is not of this world.  Christ is almost always depicted with a red undergarment showing His humanity, and a blue cloak, showing He is not of this world. The gold stripe demonstrates His divinity.

I thought it was the other way around - red is divinity, blue humanity. Christ is a Divine Person who clothed himself with human nature; the Theotokos' garments are reversed - the blue garment signifying her humanity, and the red mantle signifying her overshadowing by the Holy Spirit.
Woe is me, that I have read the commandments,
   and have become learned in the Scriptures,
and have been instructed in Your glories,
   and yet I have become occupied in shameful things!

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Offline LBK

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Re: Icon
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2017, 08:32:04 PM »
MalpanaGiwargis' answer on the colors of Christ's garments is correct. And the gold stripe does not signify divinity, but that He is a teacher. This stripe is also seen on the tunics of apostles in their icons, as they taught and enlightened the world. The stripe was part of ancient Greco-Roman dress, a privilege given to those entitled to it.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Icon
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2017, 08:38:23 PM »
Hmmm, I could have sworn I had that right. I'll have to look into that further. Perhaps my brain just misremembered.  :P
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 08:38:34 PM by TheTrisagion »
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Icon
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2017, 08:47:16 PM »
Both of these sites seem to indicate blue is the celestial color. Do you have something that demonstrates to the contrary?

http://www.pravmir.com/icons-symbolism-in-color/

Quote
Red

Red is one of the most frequently used colors in icons. This is the color of heat, passion, love, life and life-giving energy, and for this very reason red became the symbol of the resurrection – the victory of life over death. But at the same time it is the color of blood and torments, and the color of Christ’s sacrifice. Martyrs are depicted in red clothing on icons. In red celestial fire blaze the wings of the Seraphim – angels stationed adjacent to God’s throne. Sometimes icons were painted with a red background as a symbol of the celebration of eternal life.

Quote
Dark-Blue and Blue

Dark-blue and blue indicate the infiniteness of the sky and is the symbol of another everlasting world. Dark blue was considered the color of the Mother of God who combines in her self both the terrestrial and celestial. The backgrounds of mural paintings in many Byzantine churches dedicated to the Mother of God are filled with a celestial dark blue.

https://russianicon.com/meaning-of-colors-in-eastern-orthodox-iconography/

Quote
2. Blue

Blue stands for heaven or the Kingdom of God that is not on this earth. Being a symbol of another everlasting world, it additionally shows the infiniteness of the sky. Besides, dark blue is also the color of the Mother of God and is usually used in the religious icon paintings to show her heavenly nature.

3. Red

Red signifies life on earth. It is a symbol of life-giving energy, love, passion, and certainly Christ’s sacrifice. Since it is the color of blood, red represents the saving nature of the resurrection. Therefore, some hand-painted icons have a red background to symbolize the true celebration of life.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Icon
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2017, 08:48:34 PM »
P.s. Another thing that might be of interest to you. Red signifies humanity within iconography, and blue symbolizes the heavens and that which is not of this world.  Christ is almost always depicted with a red undergarment showing His humanity, and a blue cloak, showing He is not of this world. The gold stripe demonstrates His divinity.

I thought it was the other way around - red is divinity, blue humanity. Christ is a Divine Person who clothed himself with human nature; the Theotokos' garments are reversed - the blue garment signifying her humanity, and the red mantle signifying her overshadowing by the Holy Spirit.
I have seen both associations from various iconographers but:
Red=Blood=Humanity. Blue=Heavens=Divinity
Makes the most sense to me.
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Offline 2tandem

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Re: Icon
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2017, 08:54:55 PM »
Thank You Everyone.  Very Helpful.

In Christ,

Mike

Offline LBK

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Re: Icon
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2017, 08:59:41 PM »
Colors in iconography sometimes have more than one meaning, but in the case of the red-blue colors of the garments of Christ and His Mother, Dcn Lance's comment makes the least sense.

Christ the King and God (regal red) is clothed with humanity (blue). The Virgin, fully human and mortal (blue) is graced by the Divine (red). And her shoes are also red, as she is Queen and Mother.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Icon
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2017, 09:11:12 PM »
Colors in iconography sometimes have more than one meaning, but in the case of the red-blue colors of the garments of Christ and His Mother, Dcn Lance's comment makes the least sense.

Christ the King and God (regal red) is clothed with humanity (blue). The Virgin, fully human and mortal (blue) is graced by the Divine (red). And her shoes are also red, as she is Queen and Mother.
It can also be seen as Christ clothes our humanity-red with his divinity-blue and the Virgin, contains Christ's divinity-blue within her humanity-red.  And as trisagion has shown these are not just my ideas.  I admit I have seen both explanations but I never understood how blue got associated with humanity.  Where  is the connection?  Red with blood, flesh, humanity, blue with heaven, divinity makes more sense.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Icon
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2017, 09:21:02 PM »
Colors in iconography sometimes have more than one meaning, but in the case of the red-blue colors of the garments of Christ and His Mother, Dcn Lance's comment makes the least sense.

Christ the King and God (regal red) is clothed with humanity (blue). The Virgin, fully human and mortal (blue) is graced by the Divine (red). And her shoes are also red, as she is Queen and Mother.
I don't really have any interest in arguing about it, but it seems strange that iconography would have blue as divinity and red and humanity as stated in the pages I found, but then it would be reversed for icons of Christ and the Theotokos.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Icon
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2017, 09:30:58 PM »
Colors in iconography sometimes have more than one meaning, but in the case of the red-blue colors of the garments of Christ and His Mother, Dcn Lance's comment makes the least sense.

Christ the King and God (regal red) is clothed with humanity (blue). The Virgin, fully human and mortal (blue) is graced by the Divine (red). And her shoes are also red, as she is Queen and Mother.
It can also be seen as Christ clothes our humanity-red with his divinity-blue and the Virgin, contains Christ's divinity-blue within her humanity-red.  And as trisagion has shown these are not just my ideas.  I admit I have seen both explanations but I never understood how blue got associated with humanity.  Where  is the connection?  Red with blood, flesh, humanity, blue with heaven, divinity makes more sense.

Woad, which gives a blue color, was a plentiful and very cheap dye in the ancient world.

Christ the King and God willingly impoverished Himself in becoming one of us. The Virgin, while being of David's lineage, was a most humble servant of God, as she said herself: for He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Icon
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2017, 09:46:12 PM »
Colors in iconography sometimes have more than one meaning, but in the case of the red-blue colors of the garments of Christ and His Mother, Dcn Lance's comment makes the least sense.

Christ the King and God (regal red) is clothed with humanity (blue). The Virgin, fully human and mortal (blue) is graced by the Divine (red). And her shoes are also red, as she is Queen and Mother.
It can also be seen as Christ clothes our humanity-red with his divinity-blue and the Virgin, contains Christ's divinity-blue within her humanity-red.  And as trisagion has shown these are not just my ideas.  I admit I have seen both explanations but I never understood how blue got associated with humanity.  Where  is the connection?  Red with blood, flesh, humanity, blue with heaven, divinity makes more sense.

Woad, which gives a blue color, was a plentiful and very cheap dye in the ancient world.

Christ the King and God willingly impoverished Himself in becoming one of us. The Virgin, while being of David's lineage, was a most humble servant of God, as she said herself: for He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant.
Even up to the dress codes of Elizabethan England, the lower classes were restricted to blue colors.

Red is associated with royal purple. Wearing red shoes was a treasonous act, as only the Emperor (and then the Vatican's pope and Islam's caliph) could wear them. Crimson and porphyry and all that...
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Icon
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2017, 10:30:55 PM »
Colors in iconography sometimes have more than one meaning, but in the case of the red-blue colors of the garments of Christ and His Mother, Dcn Lance's comment makes the least sense.

Christ the King and God (regal red) is clothed with humanity (blue). The Virgin, fully human and mortal (blue) is graced by the Divine (red). And her shoes are also red, as she is Queen and Mother.
It can also be seen as Christ clothes our humanity-red with his divinity-blue and the Virgin, contains Christ's divinity-blue within her humanity-red.  And as trisagion has shown these are not just my ideas.  I admit I have seen both explanations but I never understood how blue got associated with humanity.  Where  is the connection?  Red with blood, flesh, humanity, blue with heaven, divinity makes more sense.

Woad, which gives a blue color, was a plentiful and very cheap dye in the ancient world.

Christ the King and God willingly impoverished Himself in becoming one of us. The Virgin, while being of David's lineage, was a most humble servant of God, as she said herself: for He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant.
Blue, not from Woad but from a species Murex, was reserved for the imperial family especially those sons given the title of Sebastokrator.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Icon
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2017, 10:38:28 PM »
Colors in iconography sometimes have more than one meaning, but in the case of the red-blue colors of the garments of Christ and His Mother, Dcn Lance's comment makes the least sense.

Christ the King and God (regal red) is clothed with humanity (blue). The Virgin, fully human and mortal (blue) is graced by the Divine (red). And her shoes are also red, as she is Queen and Mother.
It can also be seen as Christ clothes our humanity-red with his divinity-blue and the Virgin, contains Christ's divinity-blue within her humanity-red.  And as trisagion has shown these are not just my ideas.  I admit I have seen both explanations but I never understood how blue got associated with humanity.  Where  is the connection?  Red with blood, flesh, humanity, blue with heaven, divinity makes more sense.

Woad, which gives a blue color, was a plentiful and very cheap dye in the ancient world.

Christ the King and God willingly impoverished Himself in becoming one of us. The Virgin, while being of David's lineage, was a most humble servant of God, as she said herself: for He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant.
Blue, not from Woad but from a species Murex, was reserved for the imperial family especially those sons given the title of Sebastokrator.

I'm well aware that there were blue dyes and pigments which were precious. Lapis lazuli is another. However, the distinctive arrangement of the colors in the garments of Christ and His Mother are clear expressions of doctrinal, if not dogmatic, teachings. The arrangement doesn't make sense otherwise. And the Virgin's red shoes are no accident, as ialmisry helpfully explained.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Icon
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2017, 10:48:49 PM »
Colors in iconography sometimes have more than one meaning, but in the case of the red-blue colors of the garments of Christ and His Mother, Dcn Lance's comment makes the least sense.

Christ the King and God (regal red) is clothed with humanity (blue). The Virgin, fully human and mortal (blue) is graced by the Divine (red). And her shoes are also red, as she is Queen and Mother.
It can also be seen as Christ clothes our humanity-red with his divinity-blue and the Virgin, contains Christ's divinity-blue within her humanity-red.  And as trisagion has shown these are not just my ideas.  I admit I have seen both explanations but I never understood how blue got associated with humanity.  Where  is the connection?  Red with blood, flesh, humanity, blue with heaven, divinity makes more sense.

Woad, which gives a blue color, was a plentiful and very cheap dye in the ancient world.

Christ the King and God willingly impoverished Himself in becoming one of us. The Virgin, while being of David's lineage, was a most humble servant of God, as she said herself: for He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant.
Blue, not from Woad but from a species Murex, was reserved for the imperial family especially those sons given the title of Sebastokrator.

I'm well aware that there were blue dyes and pigments which were precious. Lapis lazuli is another. However, the distinctive arrangement of the colors in the garments of Christ and His Mother are clear expressions of doctrinal, if not dogmatic, teachings. The arrangement doesn't make sense otherwise. And the Virgin's red shoes are no accident, as ialmisry helpfully explained.
I just showed you how it makes sense otherwise.  And Trisagion showed references for this as well.  One can find icons with the colors reversed or as in Hagia Sophia exclusive use of blue and gold.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Icon
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2017, 11:03:33 PM »
Quote
One can find icons with the colors reversed

Of course one does. They are overwelmingly of Roman Catholic or Eastern Catholic origin.

If the colors are reversed for the Mother of God, then are the colors reversed in corresponding icons of Christ? I very much doubt it. And if they're not, then the doctrinal significance of the symbolism of the colors is lost. It would make no sense at all for both the God become Man and the woman who bore God to be dressed in the same way.

Quote
or as in Hagia Sophia exclusive use of blue and gold.

Ancient churches also had mosaics of a beardless Christ and other depictions which soon fell out of favor.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Icon
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2017, 11:06:42 PM »
LBK, do you have any source material for what you are saying? Not saying I disbelieve you, but I prefer to see some sort of... documentation.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Icon
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2017, 11:13:15 PM »
Even up to the dress codes of Elizabethan England, the lower classes were restricted to blue colors.

You are speaking as tho "lower classes" or "dress codes" were monolithic. What you're dealing with is really a couple of isolated data points.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Icon
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2017, 11:14:26 PM »
Colors in iconography sometimes have more than one meaning, but in the case of the red-blue colors of the garments of Christ and His Mother, Dcn Lance's comment makes the least sense.

Christ the King and God (regal red) is clothed with humanity (blue). The Virgin, fully human and mortal (blue) is graced by the Divine (red). And her shoes are also red, as she is Queen and Mother.
It can also be seen as Christ clothes our humanity-red with his divinity-blue and the Virgin, contains Christ's divinity-blue within her humanity-red.  And as trisagion has shown these are not just my ideas.  I admit I have seen both explanations but I never understood how blue got associated with humanity.  Where  is the connection?  Red with blood, flesh, humanity, blue with heaven, divinity makes more sense.

Woad, which gives a blue color, was a plentiful and very cheap dye in the ancient world.

Christ the King and God willingly impoverished Himself in becoming one of us. The Virgin, while being of David's lineage, was a most humble servant of God, as she said herself: for He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant.

If this is really the impetus behind the blue (and I don't think it makes sense to me), then wouldn't using brown, black, or gray been even cheaper as well as unambiguous?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline LBK

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Re: Icon
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2017, 11:22:07 PM »
Colors in iconography sometimes have more than one meaning, but in the case of the red-blue colors of the garments of Christ and His Mother, Dcn Lance's comment makes the least sense.

Christ the King and God (regal red) is clothed with humanity (blue). The Virgin, fully human and mortal (blue) is graced by the Divine (red). And her shoes are also red, as she is Queen and Mother.
It can also be seen as Christ clothes our humanity-red with his divinity-blue and the Virgin, contains Christ's divinity-blue within her humanity-red.  And as trisagion has shown these are not just my ideas.  I admit I have seen both explanations but I never understood how blue got associated with humanity.  Where  is the connection?  Red with blood, flesh, humanity, blue with heaven, divinity makes more sense.

Woad, which gives a blue color, was a plentiful and very cheap dye in the ancient world.

Christ the King and God willingly impoverished Himself in becoming one of us. The Virgin, while being of David's lineage, was a most humble servant of God, as she said herself: for He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant.

If this is really the impetus behind the blue (and I don't think it makes sense to me), then wouldn't using brown, black, or gray been even cheaper as well as unambiguous?

Black is used for evil, or for the darkness of the unenlightened, such as the darkness of the cave in which Christ was born, or that surrounding Kosmos at the base of icons of Pentecost. Monastics in their icons are shown in various colors, mainly blues, browns and greens. In more recent times, iconographers have rendered the black of monastic clothing or bishops' mantles in a very dark blue or green shade so as not to paint them black per se.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Icon
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2017, 11:25:31 PM »
Colors in iconography sometimes have more than one meaning, but in the case of the red-blue colors of the garments of Christ and His Mother, Dcn Lance's comment makes the least sense.

Christ the King and God (regal red) is clothed with humanity (blue). The Virgin, fully human and mortal (blue) is graced by the Divine (red). And her shoes are also red, as she is Queen and Mother.
It can also be seen as Christ clothes our humanity-red with his divinity-blue and the Virgin, contains Christ's divinity-blue within her humanity-red.  And as trisagion has shown these are not just my ideas.  I admit I have seen both explanations but I never understood how blue got associated with humanity.  Where  is the connection?  Red with blood, flesh, humanity, blue with heaven, divinity makes more sense.

Woad, which gives a blue color, was a plentiful and very cheap dye in the ancient world.

Christ the King and God willingly impoverished Himself in becoming one of us. The Virgin, while being of David's lineage, was a most humble servant of God, as she said herself: for He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant.

If this is really the impetus behind the blue (and I don't think it makes sense to me), then wouldn't using brown, black, or gray been even cheaper as well as unambiguous?

Black is used for evil, or for the darkness of the unenlightened, such as the darkness of the cave in which Christ was born, or that surrounding Kosmos at the base of icons of Pentecost. Monastics in their icons are shown in various colors, mainly blues, browns and greens. In more recent times, iconographers have rendered the black of monastic clothing or bishops' mantles in a very dark blue or green shade so as not to paint them black per se.

So that answers a third of my question.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline MalpanaGiwargis

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Re: Icon
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2017, 12:03:49 AM »
Colors in iconography sometimes have more than one meaning, but in the case of the red-blue colors of the garments of Christ and His Mother, Dcn Lance's comment makes the least sense.

Christ the King and God (regal red) is clothed with humanity (blue). The Virgin, fully human and mortal (blue) is graced by the Divine (red). And her shoes are also red, as she is Queen and Mother.
It can also be seen as Christ clothes our humanity-red with his divinity-blue and the Virgin, contains Christ's divinity-blue within her humanity-red.  And as trisagion has shown these are not just my ideas.  I admit I have seen both explanations but I never understood how blue got associated with humanity.  Where  is the connection?  Red with blood, flesh, humanity, blue with heaven, divinity makes more sense.

Red would be the fire of the Divinity; I'm not sure why blue would represent humanity, but I think that makes more sense in what the icon symbolizes. I'm not sure why Christ's clothes should indicate what happens to us mortals - a human nature being clothed in divinity; it makes more sense, to me at least, that his clothes would describe Him - a Divine Person clothing himself in humanity.
Woe is me, that I have read the commandments,
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and have been instructed in Your glories,
   and yet I have become occupied in shameful things!

(Giwargis Warda, On Compunction of Soul)

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Icon
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2017, 12:05:47 AM »
Colors in iconography sometimes have more than one meaning, but in the case of the red-blue colors of the garments of Christ and His Mother, Dcn Lance's comment makes the least sense.

Christ the King and God (regal red) is clothed with humanity (blue). The Virgin, fully human and mortal (blue) is graced by the Divine (red). And her shoes are also red, as she is Queen and Mother.
It can also be seen as Christ clothes our humanity-red with his divinity-blue and the Virgin, contains Christ's divinity-blue within her humanity-red.  And as trisagion has shown these are not just my ideas.  I admit I have seen both explanations but I never understood how blue got associated with humanity.  Where  is the connection?  Red with blood, flesh, humanity, blue with heaven, divinity makes more sense.

Red would be the fire of the Divinity; I'm not sure why blue would represent humanity, but I think that makes more sense in what the icon symbolizes. I'm not sure why Christ's clothes should indicate what happens to us mortals - a human nature being clothed in divinity; it makes more sense, to me at least, that his clothes would describe Him - a Divine Person clothing himself in humanity.

Red would be the blood; blue would be the heavens. At least that's how I've read what Dn. Lance is referring to described elsewhere.
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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Icon
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2017, 12:22:51 AM »
I just showed you how it makes sense otherwise.  And Trisagion showed references for this as well.  One can find icons with the colors reversed or as in Hagia Sophia exclusive use of blue and gold.
Maybe they're just colors. Even ancient people needed colors to paint with.
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Re: Icon
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2017, 02:06:19 AM »
It's really hard to tell what brand of blue tunic Jesus is wearing.  There seems to be a logo I can't make out.
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Re: Icon
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2017, 02:45:07 PM »
Colors in iconography sometimes have more than one meaning, but in the case of the red-blue colors of the garments of Christ and His Mother, Dcn Lance's comment makes the least sense.

Christ the King and God (regal red) is clothed with humanity (blue). The Virgin, fully human and mortal (blue) is graced by the Divine (red). And her shoes are also red, as she is Queen and Mother.
It can also be seen as Christ clothes our humanity-red with his divinity-blue and the Virgin, contains Christ's divinity-blue within her humanity-red.  And as trisagion has shown these are not just my ideas.  I admit I have seen both explanations but I never understood how blue got associated with humanity.  Where  is the connection?  Red with blood, flesh, humanity, blue with heaven, divinity makes more sense.

Red would be the fire of the Divinity; I'm not sure why blue would represent humanity, but I think that makes more sense in what the icon symbolizes. I'm not sure why Christ's clothes should indicate what happens to us mortals - a human nature being clothed in divinity; it makes more sense, to me at least, that his clothes would describe Him - a Divine Person clothing himself in humanity.

Red would be the blood; blue would be the heavens. At least that's how I've read what Dn. Lance is referring to described elsewhere.

Oh, I understand his symbolism scheme, but the one I learned was the opposite; in that case, red makes sense as Divinity, but I'm not sure why humanity would be blue. I have encountered both, which suggests to me that the tradition is not as monolithic as some think.
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Re: Icon
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2017, 05:38:01 PM »
I was taught that Christ wore red (Divine) and put on blue (Humanity).  Same with the Virgin.  She begins as merely human (blue) and puts on the Divine via the Incarnation (red).


https://iconreader.wordpress.com/2010/07/07/icons-of-the-mother-of-god/

"Mary is shown wearing a veil typical of Jewish women of the period, an historical fact no doubt, but which also reveals to us her humility and piety. The veil is red, the colour of divinity, whilst the clothes under the veil are green or blue, the colours of humanity. This is the exact opposite of the usual depiction of Christ: Who has humanity worn upon His eternal, divine, nature. As the evangelist Luke records, the angel Gabriel said to Mary: “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the Power of the Highest will overshadow you” (Luke 1:35) And so this is shown in Mary’s veil."
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 05:40:32 PM by LizaSymonenko »
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Re: Icon
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2017, 09:14:42 PM »
I would also point out in defense of my color scheme that in the icon of icons, Rublev's Trinity, the color common to all three Divine Persons is blue.  The Father has a blue tunic wiith gold himation, the Son has red tunic with blue himation, the Holy Spirit has blue tunic with green himation. 
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Icon
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2017, 09:48:20 PM »
Red = humanity
blue = divinity
mauve = LBK
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Re: Icon
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2017, 11:53:55 PM »
I would also point out in defense of my color scheme that in the icon of icons, Rublev's Trinity, the color common to all three Divine Persons is blue.  The Father has a blue tunic wiith gold himation, the Son has red tunic with blue himation, the Holy Spirit has blue tunic with green himation.

Seems syllogistic. Father is God and King. Son is Man and God. Spirit is God in the earth. Blue = God. Gold = king. Red = man. Green = earth.
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Re: Icon
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2017, 04:53:59 PM »
Red = humanity
blue = divinity
mauve = LBK

That's not nice!!   >:( >:( >:(
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Re: Icon
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2017, 06:06:25 PM »
I would also point out in defense of my color scheme that in the icon of icons, Rublev's Trinity, the color common to all three Divine Persons is blue.  The Father has a blue tunic wiith gold himation, the Son has red tunic with blue himation, the Holy Spirit has blue tunic with green himation.
The colours employed by Saint Andrei Rublev in the icon of the Holy Trinity are of great significance.

The angel to the right, representing the Holy Spirit, is clothed in blue – the colour of the sky and thus the colour of heaven -  and green, the colour of life (think plants and trees) or, according to Dionysius the Areopagite, the colour of youth and vigour or 'fullness of power' (The Celestial Hierarchy: Ch. 15, section 7).   

The central angel, representing the Son, is clothed in 'imperial purple', as King and son of David with an outer garment of blue, the colour of heaven (in contrast, in icons of the Mother of God she too is portrayed in imperial purple, being of the house of David, and with an inner garment of heavenly blue, indicative of the divinity she carried in her womb).

The angel to the left, representing the Father, is clothed in blue, the colour of heaven, but this is largely hidden by His outer garment of a pinkish hue with brown and blue-green highlights.  The 'pink' colour can be made using a mixture of imperial purple (commonly a reddish brown, such as red ochre tinted with black or burnt umber) and a green (such as terre verte).   The mere 'glimpse' of heavenly blue and the highlighting with the colours of the other two angels teaches how the Father is revealed to us (in as much as He is) through the Son and the Holy Spirit.   

The relative prominence of the colours of the central angel show how, through the incarnation, the Son is the most fully revealed of the Holy Trinity.

Blue is the common colour expressing the divinity of all three persons.   The colours depicting the Son and the Holy Spirit are to be found in the colour depicting the Father, but not in the colours of one another, emphasising clearly the distinctive monarchy of the Father.

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Re: Icon
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2017, 06:29:40 PM »
How come Rublev didn't arrange the Trinity icon so that the Son was at the Father's right hand? 
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Icon
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2017, 06:44:58 PM »
Red = humanity
blue = divinity
mauve = LBK

That's not nice!!   >:( >:( >:(
Not a fan of mauve?
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Re: Icon
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2017, 07:02:58 PM »
How come Rublev didn't arrange the Trinity icon so that the Son was at the Father's right hand?
Saint Andrei seems to have placed the three angels in the order they are acknowledged in the Symbol of faith - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - as a good Russian he read left to right (and probably had no working knowledge of Hebrew or Arabic)!   

Also, at the time of the visitation to Abraham the Son was not yet incarnated, ascended, and seated at the right hand of the Father - but maybe that is reading too much into things, forcing a spatial relationship on the Holy Trinity - the sitting at the right hand is surely a reference to the assumption of power and honour rather than a precise actual location ('All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth' - Matthew 28:18).   

It is noteworthy that in this icon both the Son and the Holy Spirit incline their heads towards the Father.   

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Re: Icon
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2017, 12:41:23 AM »
The True Story of the Icon?
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb