Author Topic: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards  (Read 19696 times)

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Offline celticfan1888

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #360 on: October 09, 2012, 09:13:01 PM »
I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

And I call you intolerant of not letting women be equal. If she wants to work, let her work. Lord Sauron...you really live up to your name.

*sigh* Can we please have another Ecumenical Council to condemn egalitarianism? It's getting out of control.

I'm not saying she can't be a housewife. But if she doesn't want to be, she shouldn't be forced to. Some women get bored to death sitting at home all day.

You don't believe women are equal?

I don't believe women are equal to men.
I don't believe women are equal to other women.
I don't believe men are equal to other men.
I don't believe there's any reasonable metric that will return the result "all people are equal."
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any two people who are equal by any reasonable metric.
I don't believe an egalitarian structure for the family accords with Scripture, nature, or Orthodox Tradition.

If no one is equal, then are you implying that every person has a superior and inferior all the way up and down the scale? So do you want me to start plowing your fields now or later...considering I am not your equal?
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Offline vamrat

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #361 on: October 09, 2012, 09:19:24 PM »
I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

And I call you intolerant of not letting women be equal. If she wants to work, let her work. Lord Sauron...you really live up to your name.

*sigh* Can we please have another Ecumenical Council to condemn egalitarianism? It's getting out of control.

I'm not saying she can't be a housewife. But if she doesn't want to be, she shouldn't be forced to. Some women get bored to death sitting at home all day.

You don't believe women are equal?

I don't believe women are equal to men.
I don't believe women are equal to other women.
I don't believe men are equal to other men.
I don't believe there's any reasonable metric that will return the result "all people are equal."
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any two people who are equal by any reasonable metric.
I don't believe an egalitarian structure for the family accords with Scripture, nature, or Orthodox Tradition.

If no one is equal, then are you implying that every person has a superior and inferior all the way up and down the scale? So do you want me to start plowing your fields now or later...considering I am not your equal?

When you get famous in Munich I intend on buying a shirt with your name on it.  The likelihood of you ever returning the favour is slim to nil. 

Different people have different talents.  God gives some five and some two and some only one.  What we do with them makes us who we are.  Of the one guy had put it to work and the two guy had wasted it's potential and the five guy had blown it all on crack, we'd have a totally different outcome in the story.  But regardless, the master gave a different number of talents to each servant at the outset.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #362 on: October 09, 2012, 09:42:49 PM »
I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

And I call you intolerant of not letting women be equal. If she wants to work, let her work. Lord Sauron...you really live up to your name.

*sigh* Can we please have another Ecumenical Council to condemn egalitarianism? It's getting out of control.

I'm not saying she can't be a housewife. But if she doesn't want to be, she shouldn't be forced to. Some women get bored to death sitting at home all day.

You don't believe women are equal?

I don't believe women are equal to men.
I don't believe women are equal to other women.
I don't believe men are equal to other men.
I don't believe there's any reasonable metric that will return the result "all people are equal."
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any two people who are equal by any reasonable metric.
I don't believe an egalitarian structure for the family accords with Scripture, nature, or Orthodox Tradition.

If no one is equal, then are you implying that every person has a superior and inferior all the way up and down the scale? So do you want me to start plowing your fields now or later...considering I am not your equal?

How can I answer such an absurd question, except to turn the absurdity back to whence it came and say "now, if you please"?

You and I are not equal. I do not know which of us is superior (and the answer would of course depend on what metric you use; for example (and I'm just making this up) I might be a better writer while you blow me away at music), but your right to refuse to plow my fields does not imply that we are equal.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 09:42:59 PM by OrthoNoob »
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #363 on: October 09, 2012, 09:53:56 PM »
This thread is Sodom and Gomorrah, accursed unto the last day.
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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

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Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

Offline vamrat

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #364 on: October 09, 2012, 10:00:48 PM »
This thread is Sodom and Gomorrah, accursed unto the last day.

No sodomy here.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline biro

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #365 on: October 09, 2012, 10:01:41 PM »
What is Gomorrah-ing, anyway?

Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #366 on: October 09, 2012, 10:33:19 PM »
What is Gomorrah-ing, anyway?

These are the public forums.  :police:
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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #367 on: October 09, 2012, 10:38:26 PM »
What is Gomorrah-ing, anyway?

I guess if you're going to post in this thread, you'll want to put one of those paper toilet seat covers over your computer first...

Offline biro

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #368 on: October 09, 2012, 11:23:26 PM »
What is Gomorrah-ing, anyway?

I guess if you're going to post in this thread, you'll want to put one of those paper toilet seat covers over your computer first...

Thanks. ;)

Offline vamrat

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #369 on: October 10, 2012, 01:17:26 AM »
What is Gomorrah-ing, anyway?

You don't want to know.

But in case you do...

The Aristocrats.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #370 on: October 10, 2012, 01:23:25 AM »
This thread is Sodom and Gomorrah, accursed unto the last day.

No sodomy here.

According to some posters on this site, what you just said means "we all give plenty of money to the poor."  :police:
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Offline celticfan1888

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #371 on: October 10, 2012, 12:37:45 PM »
When you get famous in Munich I intend on buying a shirt with your name on it.  The likelihood of you ever returning the favour is slim to nil. 

Different people have different talents.  God gives some five and some two and some only one.  What we do with them makes us who we are.  Of the one guy had put it to work and the two guy had wasted it's potential and the five guy had blown it all on crack, we'd have a totally different outcome in the story.  But regardless, the master gave a different number of talents to each servant at the outset.

And I'm pretty sure you have some kick butt abilities I do not. That is what makes people equal. IMHO.

Even if you waste your potential, you still have it.
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Offline celticfan1888

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #372 on: October 10, 2012, 12:41:49 PM »
How can I answer such an absurd question, except to turn the absurdity back to whence it came and say "now, if you please"?

You and I are not equal. I do not know which of us is superior (and the answer would of course depend on what metric you use; for example (and I'm just making this up) I might be a better writer while you blow me away at music), but your right to refuse to plow my fields does not imply that we are equal.

I do not see my question as absurd. The lesser should serve the greater, should henot?

If we both are good at things, despite them being different, how are we NOT equal? We are equal in different ways other than your narrow view of equality.

Many of the things I am good at (soccer-football for example, that is my profession), I don't think I was born good at. Maybe my strong build and physique gave me an advantage, but I had to work just as hard as anyone else. Anyone here could be doing what I do if they worked hard.

What if there is a woman who is bigger, stronger, better decisions, more emotionally stable than you, is she more suited to lead the household then? Under your argument?
Forgive my sins.

Offline vamrat

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #373 on: October 10, 2012, 01:10:48 PM »
When you get famous in Munich I intend on buying a shirt with your name on it.  The likelihood of you ever returning the favour is slim to nil. 

Different people have different talents.  God gives some five and some two and some only one.  What we do with them makes us who we are.  Of the one guy had put it to work and the two guy had wasted it's potential and the five guy had blown it all on crack, we'd have a totally different outcome in the story.  But regardless, the master gave a different number of talents to each servant at the outset.

And I'm pretty sure you have some kick butt abilities I do not. That is what makes people equal. IMHO.

Even if you waste your potential, you still have it.

I think we are operating on different definitions of equal.  To me it means that all things come out balanced.  I think you are looking at this as 5+2 = 3+4.  This is correct.  Both ends come out equal even though the composite parts are different.  But there are instances in life where you have 5+2 and people want it to equal 1+5.  5+2 =/= 1+4.  There are people out there who are head and shoulders above their competition.  In the Stone Age these 5+2 people would survive and then breed whereas the 1+4 people would either die or at least be passed over when it came time to breed.  Civilization has made it so that even inferiors can survive and even breed, sometime even superior people are passed over due to culturally ingrained traits that would have been disadvantages in the previous eras. 

Regardless, there are superiors and there are inferiors.  Some people will be of equivalent talents, some people might even be complete equals (5+2 = 5+2).  But none of this is guaranteed.  This can also change over time.  I can say hands down that in strength and intelligence I will beat 100% of infants.  Likewise, I will beat most 60 year olds in strength, not all, but most, whereas a significant proportion of them will have more experiences and learned wisdom than I have (I say "most" because there are mental deficients out there).
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #374 on: October 10, 2012, 03:31:01 PM »
How can I answer such an absurd question, except to turn the absurdity back to whence it came and say "now, if you please"?

You and I are not equal. I do not know which of us is superior (and the answer would of course depend on what metric you use; for example (and I'm just making this up) I might be a better writer while you blow me away at music), but your right to refuse to plow my fields does not imply that we are equal.

I do not see my question as absurd. The lesser should serve the greater, should henot?

Yes, of course he should. What was I thinking? That is why, after all, "the Son of Man came not to serve, but to be served."

If we both are good at things, despite them being different, how are we NOT equal? We are equal in different ways other than your narrow view of equality.

What do you think my "narrow view" is? I have an incredibly broad view, actually. Produce one (1) reasonable metric that returns the result "all people are equal." Go ahead. I'll wait.

Many of the things I am good at (soccer-football for example, that is my profession), I don't think I was born good at. Maybe my strong build and physique gave me an advantage, but I had to work just as hard as anyone else. Anyone here could be doing what I do if they worked hard.

No, he couldn't. Not everyone has the capacity to be a great soccer player. Of course you had to work hard to get where you are. It doesn't follow from that that natural talent doesn't exist or that lack of it doesn't limit people's potential.

What if there is a woman who is bigger, stronger, better decisions, more emotionally stable than you, is she more suited to lead the household then? Under your argument?

I haven't yet argued that husbands/fathers should lead their households. If and when I get around to that, it will not be based on any kind of claim that there is no woman who makes better decisions than I or is more emotionally stable or anything like that. Moreover, this is a non-issue, as such a woman would almost certainly not be attracted to me, nor I to her, and thus we would not marry and the question of who should run our mutual household affairs would be rather moot.
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Offline biro

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #375 on: October 10, 2012, 04:09:15 PM »
How's this for a metric?



And this?

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

Excerpt of the first line of the second paragraph:

Quote
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal

There you go, two of them. So, you lose.  :)


Offline vamrat

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #376 on: October 10, 2012, 04:25:34 PM »
How's this for a metric?



And this?

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

Excerpt of the first line of the second paragraph:

Quote
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal

There you go, two of them. So, you lose.  :)



Indeed.  All MEN are created equal.  Not women.  Nor blacks or Native Americans since they really weren't humans.  Catholic bogtrotters were questionable as well. 

Shall I go on about how your second statement is pretty falacious?


And honestly, if you believe that we are equal under the law, I suggest you try selling some dope.  I'll bet you'll get in a lot more trouble than if you just stole old people's retirement funds...
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #377 on: October 10, 2012, 04:40:28 PM »
How's this for a metric?


That's not a metric. That's an inscription.

And this?

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

Excerpt of the first line of the second paragraph:

Quote
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal


That's not a metric. That's an assertion.

There you go, two of them. So, you lose.  :)

No, I don't lose. Go look up "metric" and try again.
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Offline celticfan1888

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #378 on: October 13, 2012, 12:49:47 AM »
How can I answer such an absurd question, except to turn the absurdity back to whence it came and say "now, if you please"?

You and I are not equal. I do not know which of us is superior (and the answer would of course depend on what metric you use; for example (and I'm just making this up) I might be a better writer while you blow me away at music), but your right to refuse to plow my fields does not imply that we are equal.

I do not see my question as absurd. The lesser should serve the greater, should henot?

Yes, of course he should. What was I thinking? That is why, after all, "the Son of Man came not to serve, but to be served."

If we both are good at things, despite them being different, how are we NOT equal? We are equal in different ways other than your narrow view of equality.

What do you think my "narrow view" is? I have an incredibly broad view, actually. Produce one (1) reasonable metric that returns the result "all people are equal." Go ahead. I'll wait.

Many of the things I am good at (soccer-football for example, that is my profession), I don't think I was born good at. Maybe my strong build and physique gave me an advantage, but I had to work just as hard as anyone else. Anyone here could be doing what I do if they worked hard.

No, he couldn't. Not everyone has the capacity to be a great soccer player. Of course you had to work hard to get where you are. It doesn't follow from that that natural talent doesn't exist or that lack of it doesn't limit people's potential.

What if there is a woman who is bigger, stronger, better decisions, more emotionally stable than you, is she more suited to lead the household then? Under your argument?

I haven't yet argued that husbands/fathers should lead their households. If and when I get around to that, it will not be based on any kind of claim that there is no woman who makes better decisions than I or is more emotionally stable or anything like that. Moreover, this is a non-issue, as such a woman would almost certainly not be attracted to me, nor I to her, and thus we would not marry and the question of who should run our mutual household affairs would be rather moot.

I think I see your point. I just interpreted what you said the wrong way.

Forgive my sins.

Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #379 on: October 13, 2012, 01:18:59 AM »
How can I answer such an absurd question, except to turn the absurdity back to whence it came and say "now, if you please"?

You and I are not equal. I do not know which of us is superior (and the answer would of course depend on what metric you use; for example (and I'm just making this up) I might be a better writer while you blow me away at music), but your right to refuse to plow my fields does not imply that we are equal.

I do not see my question as absurd. The lesser should serve the greater, should henot?

Yes, of course he should. What was I thinking? That is why, after all, "the Son of Man came not to serve, but to be served."

If we both are good at things, despite them being different, how are we NOT equal? We are equal in different ways other than your narrow view of equality.

What do you think my "narrow view" is? I have an incredibly broad view, actually. Produce one (1) reasonable metric that returns the result "all people are equal." Go ahead. I'll wait.

Many of the things I am good at (soccer-football for example, that is my profession), I don't think I was born good at. Maybe my strong build and physique gave me an advantage, but I had to work just as hard as anyone else. Anyone here could be doing what I do if they worked hard.

No, he couldn't. Not everyone has the capacity to be a great soccer player. Of course you had to work hard to get where you are. It doesn't follow from that that natural talent doesn't exist or that lack of it doesn't limit people's potential.

What if there is a woman who is bigger, stronger, better decisions, more emotionally stable than you, is she more suited to lead the household then? Under your argument?

I haven't yet argued that husbands/fathers should lead their households. If and when I get around to that, it will not be based on any kind of claim that there is no woman who makes better decisions than I or is more emotionally stable or anything like that. Moreover, this is a non-issue, as such a woman would almost certainly not be attracted to me, nor I to her, and thus we would not marry and the question of who should run our mutual household affairs would be rather moot.

I think I see your point. I just interpreted what you said the wrong way.



I think you've got it right.
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Offline vamrat

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #380 on: October 13, 2012, 01:18:48 PM »
I think he's right and wrong at the same time for different reasons...  :D
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline celticfan1888

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #381 on: October 13, 2012, 10:05:23 PM »
I think he's right and wrong at the same time for different reasons...  :D

But you love me for it, admit it! :police: :laugh:
Forgive my sins.

Offline vamrat

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Re: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards
« Reply #382 on: October 16, 2012, 12:31:34 AM »
I think he's right and wrong at the same time for different reasons...  :D

But you love me for it, admit it! :police: :laugh:

 :-*
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.