Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards

[akimori makoto]

I'd go with the Carcharodon Carcharias personally.

I hear they have a much friendlier disposition than many lawyers.

Yeah, since JMichael put it that way it does seem to illuminate the answer.

Just another boring day in court.

[JamesR]

Hey as long as they are decently attractive and willing to sign a prenup, I'll marry any Australian woman.

[ialmisry]

I'd go with the Carcharodon Carcharias personally.

I hear they have a much friendlier disposition than many lawyers.

Yeah, since JMichael put it that way it does seem to illuminate the answer.

Just another boring day in court.

why won't a shark bite a lawyer?  Professional courtesy.

[Punch]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?

A useful, productive member of society.  You know, someone who produces things that people need.  I wear my blue collar proudly.  Many people depend on it.  And it has made me a pretty good living.

This is a dodge and likely dishonest. What child says, "I want to be a cog in the grand societal machine"? They say they want to be astronauts or something.

No, it is your kind that are dishonest.  Most blue collars are honest and hard working.

What do I do?  Ran out of money in college and was tired of a full course load while working 30 hrs a week.  Still managed six semesters with a 3.54/4.00 in one school and a 4.00/4.00 in another.  Tested with an IQ of 145 (so much for the idiots that think all those who did not get a nice piece of paper to hang on the wall are subhuman).  Qualified as an aircraft mechanic and received the FAA A&P rating.  I have worked 30 years producing electricity in two powerplants.  I have been a Nuclear Auxiliary Operator, Repairman, Predictive Maintenance Engineer (not bad for no degree), developed the Infrared Thermography Program, Vibration Analysis Program, Tribology Program, as well as spending a stint with the Institute of Nuclear Plant Operators in Atlanta, where I audited the equipment failure reports of 28 US Nuclear Plants while assisting with writing the Reporting Guidance Manuals and developing the Equipment Performance Exchange Database.  I was the first non-degreed person to work in this capacity at INPO, and only the second to be asked for by name.  I have recently worked as a Maintenance Planner and am now rebuilding our Preventive Maintenance Program as we restart the power plant where I currently am employed.  I have spent 13 of my 30 years of employment titled as an Engineer, and my salary is comfortably in six figures.  Not bad for no degree, particularly in the blue collar Union position that I currently hold.  I would guess that since I have been employed in all aspects of the generation of electricity for the last 30 years, and given the value of electricity to a civilized society, my guess would be that I have produced far more for this country and people than you have even thought of.  I think that it would be safe to guess that if a vote were taken to either get rid of lawyers or get rid of power plants, I would remain employed.

As to wanting to be an astronaut, it never interested me.  My father (yes, I am one of those who both know who he is and have actually spent time with him) drilled into me from a young age that it was important to have at least one craft skill, and that the most important thing in life after serving God is to serve your fellow man.  In fact, serving your fellow man IS serving God.  As to what I wanted to be as a child?  I have been interested in history, religion, and machines since I can remember - and my parents tell me that I was constantly looking through the set of encyclopedias that we had even before I entered school.

So much for another one of your small minded stereotypes.

[PeterTheAleut]

Can we please move this thread to private discussion so that no inquirers see it?

Why?

[NicholasMyra]

Can we please move this thread to private discussion so that no inquirers see it?

Why?

Because the level of malice and devouring that has occurred is a shameful scandal that we don't want representing the faith online. We don't want inquirers coming on here and taking this mess as normative. What inquirer would feel comfortable asking questions and voicing concern if they think this is how people will act towards them? What if they decide to leave?

We put polemical EO/OO discussions in a private forum for a reason. I think this falls under the same reason.

[PeterTheAleut]

Can we please move this thread to private discussion so that no inquirers see it?

Why?

Because the level of malice and devouring that has occurred is a shameful scandal that we don't want representing the faith online.

Who's "we"?

We don't want inquirers coming on here and taking this mess as normative.

If they would take anything we discuss on an Internet discussion forum as normative, then I think they may have bigger problems than just this forum.

What inquirer would feel comfortable asking questions and voicing concern if they think this is how people will act towards them? What if they decide to leave?

We put polemical EO/OO discussions in a private forum for a reason. I think this falls under the same reason.

We moved this thread to the Free-For-All section for a reason. I think this thread still falls under that reason.

FWIW, speaking from my experience serving as a moderator for the last 5 years, I don't think the reason we move threads to the Private Forum is exactly what you think it is.

[Shiny]

If they would take anything we discuss on an Internet discussion forum as normative, then I think they may have bigger problems than just this forum.

I'm with you on this Peter, but I don't want to single anyone out on this board, but people have taken things said on this forum as normative and true to the religion. However some have only accepted that just to besmirch the Orthodox.

I'm sure there are plenty of inquirers who are naive because they don't have message board "smarts"

[NicholasMyra]

Who's "we"?

St. Paul And Isaiah. And I'm not saying I'm not often part of the problem, but this crosses the line severely.

"For, as it is written, 'The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

-Romans 2:24 The ESV® Bible (The Holy Bible, English Standard Version®) copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. Paraphrasing from Isaiah 52:5, Isaiah the Prophet, Kingdom of Judah, c.a. 800 BC.

[dzheremi]

I actually appreciated seeing some rather contentious fights among the Copts I corresponded with online before attending a Coptic Church (when online was the only option, as there was not C.O.C. where I lived). Maybe I'm a weirdo, but it was good to go into it without rose-colored glasses. Besides, 99% of people only ever fight when they really believe in whatever it is they're arguing over, so what would really be the lesson to the inquirer? Not everyone gets along? The Orthodox Church is full of fallible human beings who squabble a lot over essentially non-religious things? I don't see how either of those are necessarily bad messages, though I think some thread splitting might not be a bad idea. I came here for more pictures of crocodile-shark fighting, not he said-she said spats regarding Sauron and Punch's respective work histories.

[Sauron]

No, it is your kind that are dishonest.

Please enlighten us as to "my kind". Then, we can continue the discussion of small minded [sic] stereotypes.

[PeterTheAleut]

Who's "we"?

St. Paul And Isaiah. And I'm not saying I'm not often part of the problem, but this crosses the line severely.

"For, as it is written, 'The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

-Romans 2:24 The ESV® Bible (The Holy Bible, English Standard Version®) copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. Paraphrasing from Isaiah 52:5, Isaiah the Prophet, Kingdom of Judah, c.a. 800 BC.

Prooftexting from the Scriptures to drum up an artificial "we"? St. Paul and Isaiah have never, to my knowledge, posted on this forum to tell us how they would like to see it run, which leaves you to interpret their words in such a way that they "support" your desire. In the end, though, you speak only for yourself and for no one else.

[ialmisry]

I actually appreciated seeing some rather contentious fights among the Copts I corresponded with online before attending a Coptic Church (when online was the only option, as there was not C.O.C. where I lived). Maybe I'm a weirdo, but it was good to go into it without rose-colored glasses. Besides, 99% of people only ever fight when they really believe in whatever it is they're arguing over, so what would really be the lesson to the inquirer? Not everyone gets along? The Orthodox Church is full of fallible human beings who squabble a lot over essentially non-religious things? I don't see how either of those are necessarily bad messages, though I think some thread splitting might not be a bad idea. I came here for more pictures of crocodile-shark fighting, not he said-she said spats regarding Sauron and Punch's respective work histories.

I agree with the thought that a canon should be promulgated, requiring a catechumen to attend a parish council meeting before acceptance.

[PeterTheAleut]

I actually appreciated seeing some rather contentious fights among the Copts I corresponded with online before attending a Coptic Church (when online was the only option, as there was not C.O.C. where I lived). Maybe I'm a weirdo, but it was good to go into it without rose-colored glasses. Besides, 99% of people only ever fight when they really believe in whatever it is they're arguing over, so what would really be the lesson to the inquirer? Not everyone gets along? The Orthodox Church is full of fallible human beings who squabble a lot over essentially non-religious things? I don't see how either of those are necessarily bad messages, ...

EXACTLY! That's the point I'm trying to communicate.

[NicholasMyra]

You all don't see a difference between this thread and the normal bickering we engage in?

[PeterTheAleut]

You all don't see a difference between this thread and the normal bickering we engage in?

I do see a difference. I just don't agree with the solution you propose.

[PeterTheAleut]

You all don't see a difference between this thread and the normal bickering we engage in?

I do see a difference. I just don't agree with the solution you propose.

Here's the solution I propose, then: This thread is locked for a week or so to allow its more heated participants to cool down a bit.

[Pravoslavbob]

This thread is now re-opened.  Be forewarned that personal attacks will not be tolerated.  Moreover, if things become too heated again or if the thread veers off topic, it may be closed for good.

Pravoslavbob

[Shiny]

I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

That said I would be quite comfortable being a stay-at-home father. I actually prefer staying at home than being in an office primarly because my general dislike of dealing with people.

Is it a prerequisite for me that a woman has career goals, as of right now, I believe so. I refuse to date women who do not have a clear career path and expect a man to "rescue" them by providing them monetary support. Now when the discussion of children arises, yes we will sit down and determine who is going to stay home and raise them. I would be the first to give up my career in order to make it happen.

Women vary greatly on their expectations of men. Ok sure there is the height constant, but outside of that there's alot more than the money one brings in. I've encountered plenty of women who don't give a damn about how much a man makes, but if he has great values, character, etc. But hey if you want a man that rakes in the benjamins, so be it I won't judge you. And if you want to be single and self-sufficent great.

LOL at the implication a woman needs a man to make her happy. That is completely idiotic and just goes to show how deluded men can be about their self-worth.

[Sauron]

I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

[Gorazd]

Welcome to the 21st century, guys. Housewives are so 19th century.

[Alpo]

Welcome to the 21st century, guys. Housewives are so 19th century.

That means the idea of a housewife is completely Orthodox, right?

[Gorazd]

Welcome to the 21st century, guys. Housewives are so 19th century.

That means the idea of a housewife is completely Orthodox, right?

No, because it comes from the heretical West.

Actually, I have never met a housewife in an Orthodox country.

[NicholasMyra]

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

Lol...

Glad to see the thread from hell is back with the sort of posts you'd expect.

[vamrat]

I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

As long as the kitchen is clean I don't care if she works in her free time.

[Shiny]

I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

Oh you

[LizaSymonenko]

[NicholasMyra]

[NicholasMyra]

We all love you, Sauron.

[vamrat]

Hey, my right arm looks kinda like hers!

[Asteriktos]

Did I not make myself clear?

[ZealousZeal]

Oh good. This again.

[JamesR]

I've decided that I never want to get married Save myself the stress and money. Orthonorm is 38 and he has never been married but is still a cool guy.

[Νεκτάριος]

Oh good. This again.

I'm getting kind of bored around here.  Can we have a thread bashing Muslims too?  It has been far too long. 

[JamesR]

Can we have a thread bashing Muslims too?

Sure I'll start. They smell like a donkey's donkey; which, I find rather odd considering that they have to wash themselves all the time before entering their Mosque.



Profanity replaced by something more appropriate for the Public Forum  -PtA

[Shiny]

Can we have a thread bashing Muslims too?

Sure I'll start. They smell like a donkey's donkey; which, I find rather odd considering that they have to wash themselves all the time before entering their Mosque.



Profanity replaced by something more appropriate for the Public Forum  -PtA

LMFAO

[PeterTheAleut]

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

Lol...

Glad to see the thread from hell is back with the sort of posts you'd expect.

What do you expect from the Lord of Mordor?

[Alpo]

I've decided that I never want to get married Save myself the stress and money. Orthonorm is 38 and he has never been married but is still a cool guy.

You should somehow save this comment and insert it to your wedding invitations.

[vamrat]

I've decided that I never want to get married Save myself the stress and money. Orthonorm is 38 and he has never been married but is still a cool guy.

You should somehow save this comment and insert it to your wedding invitations.

At sixteen I wanted to get married.  People change over time.  When some girl shows him a bit of interest he will change his tune.  I know for me all it took was one long term relationship to decide that marriage might not be such a hot idea after all!

[LizaSymonenko]

Oh dear.  She must of done a number on you.

You just picked the wrong girl.  Be wiser in your next choice.

[celticfan1888]

I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

And I call you intolerant of not letting women be equal. If she wants to work, let her work. Lord Sauron...you really live up to your name.

[OrthoNoob]

I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

And I call you intolerant of not letting women be equal. If she wants to work, let her work. Lord Sauron...you really live up to your name.

*sigh* Can we please have another Ecumenical Council to condemn egalitarianism? It's getting out of control.

[celticfan1888]

I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

And I call you intolerant of not letting women be equal. If she wants to work, let her work. Lord Sauron...you really live up to your name.

*sigh* Can we please have another Ecumenical Council to condemn egalitarianism? It's getting out of control.

I'm not saying she can't be a housewife. But if she doesn't want to be, she shouldn't be forced to. Some women get bored to death sitting at home all day.

You don't believe women are equal?

[vamrat]

I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

And I call you intolerant of not letting women be equal. If she wants to work, let her work. Lord Sauron...you really live up to your name.

*sigh* Can we please have another Ecumenical Council to condemn egalitarianism? It's getting out of control.

+1.  Evolution via Natural Selection teaches that there are no such things as equals.  Come to think of it, when you take monarchy into account, "the first shall be last and the last first", and "slaves obey your masters" God doesn't really believe in egalitarianism either.  When God and Science agree...it gets kinda obvious.

[OrthoNoob]

I'd like to first reject this ridiculous notion that certain men do not look for a woman who is career oriented or has ambition. For me I believe the housewife is the most important job a woman can have and is not even close to adequatley "compensated" nor respected enough. However I do predict in the future women will be replacing the role of men as the breadwinner. It's already trending that more women than men are going to college and graduating. And I am sure we will see plenty more women prevelant in positions which traditionally men have always had.

I do not call a person who says to his wife, "honey, please do your part to bring home the bacon" to be a man.

And I call you intolerant of not letting women be equal. If she wants to work, let her work. Lord Sauron...you really live up to your name.

*sigh* Can we please have another Ecumenical Council to condemn egalitarianism? It's getting out of control.

I'm not saying she can't be a housewife. But if she doesn't want to be, she shouldn't be forced to. Some women get bored to death sitting at home all day.

You don't believe women are equal?

I don't believe women are equal to men.
I don't believe women are equal to other women.
I don't believe men are equal to other men.
I don't believe there's any reasonable metric that will return the result "all people are equal."
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any two people who are equal by any reasonable metric.
I don't believe an egalitarian structure for the family accords with Scripture, nature, or Orthodox Tradition.

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