Topic: Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards

[akimori makoto]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

Hey ...

[SolEX01]

Sorry, you can parse this up and cut and paste as many pictures as you want on this thread.  But you still acted like a douche, and that may explain your situation with women.  Maybe Liz cannot speak for all of the women in the world.  But I have been around quite a few myself, and I do not find them all like you portray them.  In fact, MOST of the women that I know are nothing like you portray them, and most of the men that I know that speak of them as you do gave their women good reason to dump them.  Yes, there are one or two men that I know that were actually taken advantage of, but by far the majority had it coming.

So in every divorced couple, someone "had it coming" not taking into account mutually agreed to divorces.

So you go ahead and live in whatever fiction that you want to call the truth.  But just like Liz, or I, may not have a corner on what all women think, you certainly have no corner on the truth.

His background is well known on this forum.  I met a 10, went out with a 7 and married a 1, thankfully not in Church.

[ialmisry]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

Hey ...

what do you solicit?  Solicitation is a crime in the US.

[Sauron]

I need to apologize for getting sucked up in to this senseless melee. 

There are some days where it doesn't take much to set folks off....and apparently today was that day for me.

I don't know why I found it necessary to defend myself in this thread....but, being accused (yes, go back and read it) of being almost in my 50's and kind of bitter for not having found someone to rescue me from every woman's apparently lonely and miserable existence without a man...that can only be fixed by getting a cat, and then another...and then another....kind of was the last straw.  ....and no, I am not projecting my own interpretation on the words....they were clearly meant for me.

Funny thing is that I read the OP story on the Web and posted the link...thinking it was kind of funny that a Catholic clergyman is advising women to lower their standards.  It just sounded off to me....as growing up a Christian girl, I was always taught to have HIGH standards and not get all wobbly in the knees when some handsome man paid me a bit of attention.

Well, the knees still wobble on occasion...but, I still hold on to my high standards. 

I'm not single because I delayed the all-important marriage so I could build my career.  ...and while I can't possibly speak for all women, as I have been repeated reminded, I can speak for the women that I do know....and there are plenty.

Those who are single....are not so because they wished it, or delayed marriage....they simply wanted a "good"  husband....and were not able to find him.

Personally, I wanted an Orthodox man....and all the boys (who are now men) grew up and married the girls outside the Church - who also happened to have better careers, a few turned out to prefer men over women....and only....hmm.....ONE married an Orthodox woman from another parish which he met as a boy in summer camp.

I am not sure what the men posting expect here of "older" single women.....but, let me tell you that most hold a job, some have adopted kids, others take care of their elderly parents....  None is single by choice or because of being greedy and wishing to build their careers....or hold out for Mr. Perfect with a huge bankroll.....and I don't care what the "statistics" say....statistics can be skewed any way the statistician wishes to skew them.

I am not angry....I was a bit hurt....but, the long drive home from my lucrative position at a major company with a corner office (not).....gave me time to think it over ....and realize what a waste of time this has all been.

For the men out there....I truly hope you look elsewhere for women....because apparently the ones you have come in contact with are horrible.  Seriously.  We are not all gold diggers, or career builders, or out to only please ourselves.  Most women that I know, go out of their way to please others, and put themselves dead last....to the point of exhaustion.

Don't judge anyone....and that includes elderly single women.  It's not for you to judge them.

....and all I can say....is that repeatedly being referred to as "creeping in to my 50's" on this thread has actually made me feel old. 

Thanks, guys.

I wish you all peace....and may you find exactly what it is you are looking for.   

Adios.

I didn't know you were funny. It is comical to start a thread and then pretend to have been "sucked in", as if everything you did and said was not 100% your own doing.

You were accused of nothing. I did remark that you were near 50 and single, but that is not an accusation. That is a fact.

And yes, those who are single because they had unrealistic expectations are single because they wished it. They now pay the price for their self-absorption and lack of vision.

I am a happily married man and therefore have no expectation of spinsters other than they have a bit of integrity and get over themselves. No man, ever, was good enough? So be it. It's comical the way some think the evil world craves them. Tell me another story about how the guy behind the counter at Chili's To Go offered to trade you an Awesome Blossom in exchange for hanky-panky.

No one has judged anyone. I have only described the consequences of certain actions. Also, wear a seatbelt or you might get scraped off the asphalt one day in a crash. That is not a judgment, but merely a description of cause and effect.

For an alleged apology, your post spends a lot of time congratulating yourself and blaming others.

[akimori makoto]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

Hey ...

what do you solicit?  Solicitation is a crime in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solicitor

[Sauron]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?

[SolEX01]

And yes, those who are single because they had unrealistic expectations are single because they wished it. They now pay the price for their self-absorption and lack of vision

Self-absorption can be relaxed.  Visions can expand.  In some families, the younger siblings can't marry until the older ones have married except I know one example where the youngest sibling married after her 2 oldest sisters married.  Yet, some people choose to remain loyal to their family rather than marrying - old fashioned, yes.

[Sauron]

And yes, those who are single because they had unrealistic expectations are single because they wished it. They now pay the price for their self-absorption and lack of vision

Self-absorption can be relaxed.  Visions can expand.  In some families, the younger siblings can't marry until the older ones have married except I know one example where the youngest sibling married after her 2 oldest sisters married.  Yet, some people choose to remain loyal to their family rather than marrying - old fashioned, yes.

That is a false dichotomy. In fact, I find it difficult to think of a better way to be loyal to one's family than propagating it.

[ialmisry]

Sorry, you can parse this up and cut and paste as many pictures as you want on this thread.  But you still acted like a douche, and that may explain your situation with women.  Maybe Liz cannot speak for all of the women in the world.  But I have been around quite a few myself, and I do not find them all like you portray them.  In fact, MOST of the women that I know are nothing like you portray them, and most of the men that I know that speak of them as you do gave their women good reason to dump them.  Yes, there are one or two men that I know that were actually taken advantage of, but by far the majority had it coming.

So in every divorced couple, someone "had it coming" not taking into account mutually agreed to divorces.

So you go ahead and live in whatever fiction that you want to call the truth.  But just like Liz, or I, may not have a corner on what all women think, you certainly have no corner on the truth.

His background is well known on this forum.  I met a 10, went out with a 7 and married a 1, thankfully not in Church.

Married a 10, in Church.  Can't (actually, won't) put up a picture of the ex, but she looks like she could be Jami Gertz' twin: I had a black and white picture of her that looks exactly like this (except she is facing the opposite direction):

was about an 8 in personality, until you got to know her (then it went down to 1).  7 or 8 in abilities, except art-which was a 10.  Self confidence, as it turned out was nil.  Funny how those things happen.

As for "Agreed" Divorces, many, actually most are legal fictions.  Lazy judges don't want to be bothered with facts when there is a handy cookie cutter, and persons who can't afford lawyers to prosecute the truth.

Some divorces they had it coming, but usually the one bringing it is not the one who "had it coming."  Not an absolute rule, but one wonders if they have no fault and an amicable divorce, why can't they save the marriage.  But that would have to go into case by case.

[Sauron]

So in every divorced couple, someone "had it coming" not taking into account mutually agreed to divorces.

What's this about "mutually agreed divorce"? Every state in the US has no-fault divorce. That means either spouse can unilaterally decide to divorce, and there is nothing the other can do about it.

Care to guess whether husbands or wives initiate most divorces?

[ialmisry]

And yes, those who are single because they had unrealistic expectations are single because they wished it. They now pay the price for their self-absorption and lack of vision

Self-absorption can be relaxed.  Visions can expand.  In some families, the younger siblings can't marry until the older ones have married except I know one example where the youngest sibling married after her 2 oldest sisters married.  Yet, some people choose to remain loyal to their family rather than marrying - old fashioned, yes.

That is a false dichotomy. In fact, I find it difficult to think of a better way to be loyal to one's family than propagating it.

It happens.  I've known a number of people raised by their parents as a retirement plan.  Leaving the parents and cleaving to a spouse didn't comport with the plan.  Makes no sense, but so much in life doesn't.

[Sauron]

And yes, those who are single because they had unrealistic expectations are single because they wished it. They now pay the price for their self-absorption and lack of vision

Self-absorption can be relaxed.  Visions can expand.  In some families, the younger siblings can't marry until the older ones have married except I know one example where the youngest sibling married after her 2 oldest sisters married.  Yet, some people choose to remain loyal to their family rather than marrying - old fashioned, yes.

That is a false dichotomy. In fact, I find it difficult to think of a better way to be loyal to one's family than propagating it.

It happens.  I've known a number of people raised by their parents as a retirement plan.  Leaving the parents and cleaving to a spouse didn't comport with the plan.  Makes no sense, but so much in life doesn't.

There is a guy like that in my Mason lodge. He should have never been made a Mason. (one of the questions is, "can you support yourself and family?")

[LizaSymonenko]

I need to apologize for getting sucked up in to this senseless melee. 

There are some days where it doesn't take much to set folks off....and apparently today was that day for me.

I don't know why I found it necessary to defend myself in this thread....but, being accused (yes, go back and read it) of being almost in my 50's and kind of bitter for not having found someone to rescue me from every woman's apparently lonely and miserable existence without a man...that can only be fixed by getting a cat, and then another...and then another....kind of was the last straw.  ....and no, I am not projecting my own interpretation on the words....they were clearly meant for me.

Funny thing is that I read the OP story on the Web and posted the link...thinking it was kind of funny that a Catholic clergyman is advising women to lower their standards.  It just sounded off to me....as growing up a Christian girl, I was always taught to have HIGH standards and not get all wobbly in the knees when some handsome man paid me a bit of attention.

Well, the knees still wobble on occasion...but, I still hold on to my high standards. 

I'm not single because I delayed the all-important marriage so I could build my career.  ...and while I can't possibly speak for all women, as I have been repeated reminded, I can speak for the women that I do know....and there are plenty.

Those who are single....are not so because they wished it, or delayed marriage....they simply wanted a "good"  husband....and were not able to find him.

Personally, I wanted an Orthodox man....and all the boys (who are now men) grew up and married the girls outside the Church - who also happened to have better careers, a few turned out to prefer men over women....and only....hmm.....ONE married an Orthodox woman from another parish which he met as a boy in summer camp.

I am not sure what the men posting expect here of "older" single women.....but, let me tell you that most hold a job, some have adopted kids, others take care of their elderly parents....  None is single by choice or because of being greedy and wishing to build their careers....or hold out for Mr. Perfect with a huge bankroll.....and I don't care what the "statistics" say....statistics can be skewed any way the statistician wishes to skew them.

I am not angry....I was a bit hurt....but, the long drive home from my lucrative position at a major company with a corner office (not).....gave me time to think it over ....and realize what a waste of time this has all been.

For the men out there....I truly hope you look elsewhere for women....because apparently the ones you have come in contact with are horrible.  Seriously.  We are not all gold diggers, or career builders, or out to only please ourselves.  Most women that I know, go out of their way to please others, and put themselves dead last....to the point of exhaustion.

Don't judge anyone....and that includes elderly single women.  It's not for you to judge them.

....and all I can say....is that repeatedly being referred to as "creeping in to my 50's" on this thread has actually made me feel old. 

Thanks, guys.

I wish you all peace....and may you find exactly what it is you are looking for.   

Adios.

I didn't know you were funny. It is comical to start a thread and then pretend to have been "sucked in", as if everything you did and said was not 100% your own doing.

You were accused of nothing. I did remark that you were near 50 and single, but that is not an accusation. That is a fact.

And yes, those who are single because they had unrealistic expectations are single because they wished it. They now pay the price for their self-absorption and lack of vision.

I am a happily married man and therefore have no expectation of spinsters other than they have a bit of integrity and get over themselves. No man, ever, was good enough? So be it. It's comical the way some think the evil world craves them. Tell me another story about how the guy behind the counter at Chili's To Go offered to trade you an Awesome Blossom in exchange for hanky-panky.

No one has judged anyone. I have only described the consequences of certain actions. Also, wear a seatbelt or you might get scraped off the asphalt one day in a crash. That is not a judgment, but merely a description of cause and effect.

For an alleged apology, your post spends a lot of time congratulating yourself and blaming others.

By the way it wasn't the guy at Chili's, it was the guy at the Mediterranean place that just opened up the street.  I had worked late at my really cool job, and decided that I didn't want to do the womanly task of cooking, so, I thought I'd get carryout.  First thing "Mo" (short for Mohammad) did was check out my work "badge" and realize that I worked for a good company....all of a sudden he scoots in to the booth and sits across the table from me, asking how I like my job, how long I've been there, where do I live, why I don't have a boyfriend, and that he would love to come visit me.    I ask where he's from...and he says Egypt....I discover his whole family is still there....and he's most likely "fishing" for a greencard or sponsor.  He couldn't get over my "mesmerizing" eyes...I knew he was full of it, because it was pouring rain....and I hadn't taken an umbrella....my hair was soaked, my eyes were bloodshot from staring at a computer screen all day....and he was hitting on me.  Please.  I might be old, but, I'm not stupid.  I made sure he noticed my cross, pulled out my wallet, in which I have an icon of the Theotokos and flashed her towards him...but, he persisted.   I didn't appreciate the attention.  My standards were not too high.  I had simply come in to get some food....and didn't need to deal with this nonsense.  Of course if I had wanted to, I am sure I could probably have landed this Muslim man as a husband - at least until he got his family over here....but, there's still those high expectations that I have....and marrying a Muslim, is just slightly below the mark.

LOL!  This was the best....and you folks are going to LOVE this....as we sat there, with him gazing lovingly in to my eyes (really...he was...with his chin resting on his hand....head slightly tilted...he was pouring it on thick)....I asked how life was back home since the revolution.  Oh, he said it's tough...but, it's okay.  Then I asked how business was at the restaurant....and he said slow, but, okay....and he's looking to advertise.  .....wait for it......wait......so, his half lidded gaze snapped open....when I replied...."Well, you know you have a rather large Egyptian population not even a mile away."  He looked at me...."Yes, you didn't know?  There's a huge Coptic Church just down the road."  Oh....but...wait....you have little respect for the Copts....and are actually killing them.

Well....I guess my eyes were no longer mesmerizing after that comment.

As for being single due to unrealistic expectations.....really?  Let me double check what my expectations and high standards were all these years....oh yes....I wanted a single Orthodox man.  That was it.  Not really asking for that much, was I?  I had visions of raising a family, and wished to do that with an Orthodox husband.  ....actually, it would have been cool to have met a seminarian when I was young and to be a priest's wife.  Now THAT would have been cool.

Alas, my expectations seem to have been too high.

....and as for the price I am paying for being single...you bet there is a price.  Last time it was about $125 when I called a plumber to fix my leaking shower....which most likely my Orthodox husband would have known how to fix all on his own, and would have saved us $125.  

[akimori makoto]

As for being single due to unrealistic expectations.....really?  Let me double check what my expectations and high standards were all these years....oh yes....I wanted a single Orthodox man.  That was it.  Not really asking for that much, was I?  I had visions of raising a family, and wished to do that with an Orthodox husband.  ....actually, it would have been cool to have met a seminarian when I was young and to be a priest's wife.  Now THAT would have been cool.

Alas, my expectations seem to have been too high.

....and as for the price I am paying for being single...you bet there is a price.  Last time it was about $125 when I called a plumber to fix my leaking shower....which most likely my Orthodox husband would have known how to fix all on his own, and would have saved us $125.  

Liza, you are lovely, but, please permit me to say that not every woman is like you.

Remember that woman I mentioned at the beginning of the thread who is about a 5 and expects a 10? She is (nominally) Orthodox.

Personally, I have no qualms in admitting that men and women are equal in vice, only it seems men are more willing to have their vice on open display and to admit to it.

[SolEX01]

So in every divorced couple, someone "had it coming" not taking into account mutually agreed to divorces.

What's this about "mutually agreed divorce"? Every state in the US has no-fault divorce. That means either spouse can unilaterally decide to divorce, and there is nothing the other can do about it.

I mean divorces where couples develop marital separation agreements and go each separate way without protracted litigation.

Care to guess whether husbands or wives initiate most divorces?

The wife.

[NicholasMyra]

[SolEX01]

Sorry, you can parse this up and cut and paste as many pictures as you want on this thread.  But you still acted like a douche, and that may explain your situation with women.  Maybe Liz cannot speak for all of the women in the world.  But I have been around quite a few myself, and I do not find them all like you portray them.  In fact, MOST of the women that I know are nothing like you portray them, and most of the men that I know that speak of them as you do gave their women good reason to dump them.  Yes, there are one or two men that I know that were actually taken advantage of, but by far the majority had it coming.

So in every divorced couple, someone "had it coming" not taking into account mutually agreed to divorces.

So you go ahead and live in whatever fiction that you want to call the truth.  But just like Liz, or I, may not have a corner on what all women think, you certainly have no corner on the truth.

His background is well known on this forum.  I met a 10, went out with a 7 and married a 1, thankfully not in Church.

Married a 10, in Church.

Point of clarification, I was referring to 3 different women in chronological order.  The 10 was a med student (now doctor, now married with baby).  The 7 was a state employee who almost lost her job due to her passivity.  The 1 fooled me because she was living in a 4 BR townhouse on public assistance when I met her.  I've moved on and I have no intention of lowering my standards to find a mate.

[Byron]

I need to apologize for getting sucked up in to this senseless melee.  

There are some days where it doesn't take much to set folks off....and apparently today was that day for me.

I don't know why I found it necessary to defend myself in this thread....but, being accused (yes, go back and read it) of being almost in my 50's and kind of bitter for not having found someone to rescue me from every woman's apparently lonely and miserable existence without a man...that can only be fixed by getting a cat, and then another...and then another....kind of was the last straw.  ....and no, I am not projecting my own interpretation on the words....they were clearly meant for me.

Funny thing is that I read the OP story on the Web and posted the link...thinking it was kind of funny that a Catholic clergyman is advising women to lower their standards.  It just sounded off to me....as growing up a Christian girl, I was always taught to have HIGH standards and not get all wobbly in the knees when some handsome man paid me a bit of attention.

Well, the knees still wobble on occasion...but, I still hold on to my high standards.  

I'm not single because I delayed the all-important marriage so I could build my career.  ...and while I can't possibly speak for all women, as I have been repeated reminded, I can speak for the women that I do know....and there are plenty.

Those who are single....are not so because they wished it, or delayed marriage....they simply wanted a "good"  husband....and were not able to find him.

Personally, I wanted an Orthodox man....and all the boys (who are now men) grew up and married the girls outside the Church - who also happened to have better careers, a few turned out to prefer men over women....and only....hmm.....ONE married an Orthodox woman from another parish which he met as a boy in summer camp.

I am not sure what the men posting expect here of "older" single women.....but, let me tell you that most hold a job, some have adopted kids, others take care of their elderly parents....  None is single by choice or because of being greedy and wishing to build their careers....or hold out for Mr. Perfect with a huge bankroll.....and I don't care what the "statistics" say....statistics can be skewed any way the statistician wishes to skew them.

I am not angry....I was a bit hurt....but, the long drive home from my lucrative position at a major company with a corner office (not).....gave me time to think it over ....and realize what a waste of time this has all been.

For the men out there....I truly hope you look elsewhere for women....because apparently the ones you have come in contact with are horrible.  Seriously.  We are not all gold diggers, or career builders, or out to only please ourselves.  Most women that I know, go out of their way to please others, and put themselves dead last....to the point of exhaustion.

Don't judge anyone....and that includes elderly single women.  It's not for you to judge them.

....and all I can say....is that repeatedly being referred to as "creeping in to my 50's" on this thread has actually made me feel old.  

Thanks, guys.

I wish you all peace....and may you find exactly what it is you are looking for.  

Adios.

I didn't know you were funny. It is comical to start a thread and then pretend to have been "sucked in", as if everything you did and said was not 100% your own doing.

You were accused of nothing. I did remark that you were near 50 and single, but that is not an accusation. That is a fact.

And yes, those who are single because they had unrealistic expectations are single because they wished it. They now pay the price for their self-absorption and lack of vision.

I am a happily married man and therefore have no expectation of spinsters other than they have a bit of integrity and get over themselves. No man, ever, was good enough? So be it. It's comical the way some think the evil world craves them. Tell me another story about how the guy behind the counter at Chili's To Go offered to trade you an Awesome Blossom in exchange for hanky-panky.

No one has judged anyone. I have only described the consequences of certain actions. Also, wear a seatbelt or you might get scraped off the asphalt one day in a crash. That is not a judgment, but merely a description of cause and effect.

For an alleged apology, your post spends a lot of time congratulating yourself and blaming others.

By the way it wasn't the guy at Chili's, it was the guy at the Mediterranean place that just opened up the street.  I had worked late at my really cool job, and decided that I didn't want to do the womanly task of cooking, so, I thought I'd get carryout.  First thing "Mo" (short for Mohammad) did was check out my work "badge" and realize that I worked for a good company....all of a sudden he scoots in to the booth and sits across the table from me, asking how I like my job, how long I've been there, where do I live, why I don't have a boyfriend, and that he would love to come visit me.    I ask where he's from...and he says Egypt....I discover his whole family is still there....and he's most likely "fishing" for a greencard or sponsor.  He couldn't get over my "mesmerizing" eyes...I knew he was full of it, because it was pouring rain....and I hadn't taken an umbrella....my hair was soaked, my eyes were bloodshot from staring at a computer screen all day....and he was hitting on me.  Please.  I might be old, but, I'm not stupid.  I made sure he noticed my cross, pulled out my wallet, in which I have an icon of the Theotokos and flashed her towards him...but, he persisted.   I didn't appreciate the attention.  My standards were not too high.  I had simply come in to get some food....and didn't need to deal with this nonsense.  Of course if I had wanted to, I am sure I could probably have landed this Muslim man as a husband - at least until he got his family over here....but, there's still those high expectations that I have....and marrying a Muslim, is just slightly below the mark.

LOL!  This was the best....and you folks are going to LOVE this....as we sat there, with him gazing lovingly in to my eyes (really...he was...with his chin resting on his hand....head slightly tilted...he was pouring it on thick)....I asked how life was back home since the revolution.  Oh, he said it's tough...but, it's okay.  Then I asked how business was at the restaurant....and he said slow, but, okay....and he's looking to advertise.  .....wait for it......wait......so, his half lidded gaze snapped open....when I replied...."Well, you know you have a rather large Egyptian population not even a mile away."  He looked at me...."Yes, you didn't know?  There's a huge Coptic Church just down the road."  Oh....but...wait....you have little respect for the Copts....and are actually killing them.

Well....I guess my eyes were no longer mesmerizing after that comment.

As for being single due to unrealistic expectations.....really?  Let me double check what my expectations and high standards were all these years....oh yes....I wanted a single Orthodox man.  That was it.  Not really asking for that much, was I?  I had visions of raising a family, and wished to do that with an Orthodox husband.  ....actually, it would have been cool to have met a seminarian when I was young and to be a priest's wife.  Now THAT would have been cool.

Alas, my expectations seem to have been too high.

....and as for the price I am paying for being single...you bet there is a price.  Last time it was about $125 when I called a plumber to fix my leaking shower....which most likely my Orthodox husband would have known how to fix all on his own, and would have saved us $125.  

So is this the only man you have ever come across?

Every other man you met during your life, also not up to your expectations?

If you meet 20 people and it doesn't work out with any of them, is it solely their fault?

There's a woman i know that had boyfriend, after boyfriend, after boyfriend and they all dumped her after a while. Another woman has been engaged twice, only to have each man break it off.

The problem is purely with these women and their less than charming personalities.

[Adela]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?

St. Peter was blue collar.  Not sure that's a good term to use as a pejorative.

[vamrat]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?

St. Peter was blue collar.  Not sure that's a good term to use as a pejorative.

Let's not forget out Lord and Savior, who was a carpenter.  Yep, a good number of the Apostles probably would have been good Union men.

[Sauron]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?

St. Peter was blue collar.  Not sure that's a good term to use as a pejorative.

Let's not forget out Lord and Savior, who was a carpenter.  Yep, a good number of the Apostles probably would have been good Union men.

The word is actually τέκτων and can refer to a number of skilled handymen, not just carpenters.

And, I never said that blue collar was a pejorative. Telling that Adela thought it was.

There is nothing inherently sainted about being a manual laborer. There is not inherently depraved about being a member of an academically-skilled profession. If Punch can crack wise about how I make a living, he can be the man is proclaimed to be earlier in this thread and take it.

[Adela]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?

St. Peter was blue collar.  Not sure that's a good term to use as a pejorative.

Let's not forget out Lord and Savior, who was a carpenter.  Yep, a good number of the Apostles probably would have been good Union men.

The word is actually τέκτων and can refer to a number of skilled handymen, not just carpenters.

And, I never said that blue collar was a pejorative. Telling that Adela thought it was.

There is nothing inherently sainted about being a manual laborer. There is not inherently depraved about being a member of an academically-skilled profession. If Punch can crack wise about how I make a living, he can be the man is proclaimed to be earlier in this thread and take it.

Telling that Adela thought it was.  What is telling?  Are you saying with your immense intelligence you know I am "Blue Collar" and took it as an insult?

I do defend blue-collar workers, since my immigrant grandfathers worked in steel mills. One grandmother was a union seamstress and another worked in a lightbulb factory. 

For the record, I am an engineer, with an advanced degree.  I sailed through engineering school and grad school and I am a member of Phi Kappa Phi, the honorary society for people with high GPAs.    I have always, though, been drawn to men who could create things with their hands, just like my maternal blue-collar grandfather.   He had empathy and kindness and never berated or attacked people.

Now, maybe the next step is for you to surmise I might be unattractive.   

[Sauron]

Telling that Adela thought it was.  What is telling?  Are you saying with your immense intelligence you know I am "Blue Collar" and took it as an insult?

I think my use of the English language was pretty clear, so I will repeat. It is telling that you found the term "blue collar" to be pejorative when it is nothing of the sort.

For the record, I am an engineer, with an advanced degree.  I sailed through engineering school and grad school and I am a member of Phi Kappa Phi, the honorary society for people with high GPAs.    I have always, though, been drawn to men who could create things with their hands, just like my maternal blue-collar grandfather.   He had empathy and kindness and never berated or attacked people.

Now, maybe the next step is for you to surmise I might be unattractive.   

High GPAs are less impressive given the epidemic of grade inflation. What kind of engineer, by the way? The term can cover someone who designs a rocket or someone who designs a car door's lock.

You may be unattractive. You will need to post a picture so we can confirm. Unfortunately, we cannot take your word for it because women these days have inflated opinions of their looks because of Facebook; they post a picture and they get a bunch of "likes" and comments saying "so pretty!"

[Schultz]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?

St. Peter was blue collar.  Not sure that's a good term to use as a pejorative.

Let's not forget out Lord and Savior, who was a carpenter.  Yep, a good number of the Apostles probably would have been good Union men.

The word is actually τέκτων and can refer to a number of skilled handymen, not just carpenters.

And, I never said that blue collar was a pejorative. Telling that Adela thought it was.

There is nothing inherently sainted about being a manual laborer. There is not inherently depraved about being a member of an academically-skilled profession. If Punch can crack wise about how I make a living, he can be the man is proclaimed to be earlier in this thread and take it.

I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

[podkarpatska]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?

St. Peter was blue collar.  Not sure that's a good term to use as a pejorative.

Let's not forget out Lord and Savior, who was a carpenter.  Yep, a good number of the Apostles probably would have been good Union men.

The word is actually τέκτων and can refer to a number of skilled handymen, not just carpenters.

And, I never said that blue collar was a pejorative. Telling that Adela thought it was.

There is nothing inherently sainted about being a manual laborer. There is not inherently depraved about being a member of an academically-skilled profession. If Punch can crack wise about how I make a living, he can be the man is proclaimed to be earlier in this thread and take it.

Telling that Adela thought it was.  What is telling?  Are you saying with your immense intelligence you know I am "Blue Collar" and took it as an insult?

I do defend blue-collar workers, since my immigrant grandfathers worked in steel mills. One grandmother was a union seamstress and another worked in a lightbulb factory. 

For the record, I am an engineer, with an advanced degree.  I sailed through engineering school and grad school and I am a member of Phi Kappa Phi, the honorary society for people with high GPAs.    I have always, though, been drawn to men who could create things with their hands, just like my maternal blue-collar grandfather.   He had empathy and kindness and never berated or attacked people.

Now, maybe the next step is for you to surmise I might be unattractive.   

I am a lawyer and I agree with Adela. I grew up among blue collar,clergy, professional, cops, firefighters, engineers etc and could care less. All men put their pants on one leg at a time.

This thread is hardly an icon of proper Christian attitudes and behavior and is most uncharitable.

[Sauron]

I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.

[Sauron]

I am a lawyer and I agree with Adela. I grew up among blue collar,clergy, professional, cops, firefighters, engineers etc and could care less. All men put their pants on one leg at a time.

Actually, Punch was quite clear that is not the case. He said that some pee-pee in their pants and some don't and he is a real man's man.

[podkarpatska]

Good lawyering is about more than good arguing. It includes a willingness to have an open mind, reflection, anticipation and a willingness to concede a point when warranted.

[Schultz]

I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.

Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

[Sauron]

Good lawyering is about more than good arguing. It includes a willingness to have an open mind, reflection, anticipation and a willingness to concede a point when warranted.

The purpose of opening one's mind is the same as opening one's mouth: to close it around something solid.

[Sauron]

I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.

Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

[Schultz]

I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.

Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Yeah.  Good one.  You should write for Leno.

[Sauron]

I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.

Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Yeah.  Good one.  You should write for Leno.

It wasn't a joke. Seriously, you can come back when you've finished shelving.

[Adela]

Telling that Adela thought it was.  What is telling?  Are you saying with your immense intelligence you know I am "Blue Collar" and took it as an insult?

I think my use of the English language was pretty clear, so I will repeat. It is telling that you found the term "blue collar" to be pejorative when it is nothing of the sort.

For the record, I am an engineer, with an advanced degree.  I sailed through engineering school and grad school and I am a member of Phi Kappa Phi, the honorary society for people with high GPAs.    I have always, though, been drawn to men who could create things with their hands, just like my maternal blue-collar grandfather.   He had empathy and kindness and never berated or attacked people.

Now, maybe the next step is for you to surmise I might be unattractive.   

High GPAs are less impressive given the epidemic of grade inflation. What kind of engineer, by the way? The term can cover someone who designs a rocket or someone who designs a car door's lock.

You may be unattractive. You will need to post a picture so we can confirm. Unfortunately, we cannot take your word for it because women these days have inflated opinions of their looks because of Facebook; they post a picture and they get a bunch of "likes" and comments saying "so pretty!"

To go back, I believe Punch was stepping in to defend Liza who, in my view, was being attacked.   He may be "blue collar" but he is man enough to step in and defend a lady.

I don't have to impress you, by the way.  I am proud of my academic accomplishments.  Let's put it this way, if you use your cell phone, it is communicating with cell towers and a main switching system with software I wrote.  My co-workers have mainly been PhDs (at the birthplace of the transistor) in everything from Chemical Engineering, Nuclear Engineering to Computer Science and Electrical engineering.  I've also worked on software that controlled robots used by the Navy to build military circuit boards.  And, I have programmed a Cray Supercomputer. Definately not designing a car door lock.  I'd leave that up to my sister-in-law who has a PhD in Mechanical Engineering. I'm sure after the NSA sent her for her advanced degree, she might be able to take on such a task. 

I also don't need to prove anything about how I look.  I am 100% Slavic.  A lot of posts here are about how beautiful Russian/Slavic women are. Well, my family has it is spades and it is often commented on by outsiders.   

On top of it, I can cook.  (Pirohi, Strudel, Halupki, Palachinki, Borscht, Kifli, ......)

My husband is quite happy, by the way. 

[LizaSymonenko]

I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.

Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Yeah.  Good one.  You should write for Leno.

It wasn't a joke. Seriously, you can come back when you've finished shelving.

....and you honestly don't think you are rude?

Wow.

[Schultz]

I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.

Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Yeah.  Good one.  You should write for Leno.

It wasn't a joke. Seriously, you can come back when you've finished shelving.

Because that's all librarians do.  Shelve books.  

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.

I love you, too.

[Sauron]

I also don't need to prove anything about how I look.  I am 100% Slavic.  A lot of posts here are about how beautiful Russian/Slavic women are. Well, my family has it is spades and it is often commented on by outsiders.   

[Sauron]

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.

You generate the profits that pay everyone's salaries?

[Adela]

I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.

Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Yeah.  Good one.  You should write for Leno.

It wasn't a joke. Seriously, you can come back when you've finished shelving.

Because that's all librarians do.  Shelve books.  

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.

I love you, too.

Hey Schulz, librarians are great!  I have great memories of the librarian who took an interest in what I was reading when I was little. She steered me towards the best books!  And, many of the greatest books for children have been written by librarians. Beverly Cleary, for example. :-)

[Schultz]

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.

You generate the profits that pay everyone's salaries?

I do billable work, so, yes.

Speaking of which, since this is one of my cataloging days (where I make it easy for our attorneys to have access both online and in print of information that they'll need to provide services to our clients, thereby making us more efficient, reliable, and affordable while maintaining the high quality standards a venerable firm such as ours has and clients expect) and I'm pacing myself today (hence my more frequent input on OC.net this morning), why aren't you doing billable work, Mr. Big Shot?  

[Punch]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?

A useful, productive member of society.  You know, someone who produces things that people need.  I wear my blue collar proudly.  Many people depend on it.  And it has made me a pretty good living.

[Sauron]

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.

You generate the profits that pay everyone's salaries?

I do billable work, so, yes.

No, that doesn't mean you generate the profits that pay others' salaries. If you are like most law firm librarians, you do billable work here and there, but not nearly enough to match your own cost the firm (salary, benefits, overhead et cetera) let alone anyone else's. You don't have the rates or the volume.

[Punch]

Librarians - the keepers of mankind's knowledge in the days before the internet.  And those that preserve it for the days after our electronic society fails.  Good for you Schultz, and thank you.

I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.

Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Yeah.  Good one.  You should write for Leno.

It wasn't a joke. Seriously, you can come back when you've finished shelving.

Because that's all librarians do.  Shelve books.  

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.

I love you, too.

Hey Schulz, librarians are great!  I have great memories of the librarian who took an interest in what I was reading when I was little. She steered me towards the best books!  And, many of the greatest books for children have been written by librarians. Beverly Cleary, for example. :-)

[Sauron]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?

A useful, productive member of society.  You know, someone who produces things that people need.  I wear my blue collar proudly.  Many people depend on it.  And it has made me a pretty good living.

This is a dodge and likely dishonest. What child says, "I want to be a cog in the grand societal machine"? They say they want to be astronauts or something.

[podkarpatska]

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.

You generate the profits that pay everyone's salaries?

Speaking of which, since this is one of my cataloging days (where I make it easy for our attorneys to have access both online and in print of information that they'll need to provide services to our clients, thereby making us more efficient, reliable, and affordable while maintaining the high quality standards a venerable firm such as ours has and clients expect) and I'm pacing myself today (hence my more frequent input on OC.net this morning), why aren't you doing billable work, Mr. Big Shot?  

When every child in America is trained to be an engineer or a scientist, will there be anyone left for the important jobs like librarians, lawyers, police officers, firefighters, painters, actors, singers, writers, poets, historians and clergy etc? Not everything in life is about maximizing return on investment and not every element of a balanced society is about making money.