Church tells man-hungry women to lower standards

[Schultz]

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.

You generate the profits that pay everyone's salaries?

I do billable work, so, yes.

No, that doesn't mean you generate the profits that pay others' salaries. If you are like most law firm librarians, you do billable work here and there, but not nearly enough to match your own cost the firm (salary, benefits, overhead et cetera) let alone anyone else's. You don't have the rates or the volume.

I do at least  20 hours a week at a three figure rate, at least half of which is for our managing partner, who trusts me more than most of the associates he works with, for your baseline work.  He does the analysis, of course, but I make sure he has what he needs.

My reputation at my firm and in Baltimore is very good and I do not have to put up with your insinuations, ignorant assumptions, and condescending attitude towards myself or my profession.

Good day, sir.

[Schultz]

Librarians - the keepers of mankind's knowledge in the days before the internet.  And those that preserve it for the days after our electronic society fails.  Good for you Schultz, and thank you.

I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.

Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Yeah.  Good one.  You should write for Leno.

It wasn't a joke. Seriously, you can come back when you've finished shelving.

Because that's all librarians do.  Shelve books.  

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.

I love you, too.

Hey Schulz, librarians are great!  I have great memories of the librarian who took an interest in what I was reading when I was little. She steered me towards the best books!  And, many of the greatest books for children have been written by librarians. Beverly Cleary, for example. :-)

We also teach the self-absorbed, arrogant masses how to actually use the electronic resources, as well as catalog them so people actually know that a) we have them and b) where one can access them. 

[Sauron]

Librarians - the keepers of mankind's knowledge in the days before the internet.  And those that preserve it for the days after our electronic society fails.  Good for you Schultz, and thank you.

I think he's referring to the fact that you have an argument for everything and everyone (as good attorneys do), not the fact that you're 'a member of an academically-skilled profession.'  It's just as telling that you brought up his "blue collar" when his comment wasn't directed at your white one, but rather where you choose to wear it, so to speak.

Good internet lawyering. However, I am sure he is man enough to speak for himself.

Fair enough.  I was just trying to help.  I'm sorry to intrude on your circle jerk.

You can come back when you've finished shelving the books.

Yeah.  Good one.  You should write for Leno.

It wasn't a joke. Seriously, you can come back when you've finished shelving.

Because that's all librarians do.  Shelve books.  

By the way, so nice of you to set your sites on me and my profession, which directly supports your own, for no reason.

I love you, too.

Hey Schulz, librarians are great!  I have great memories of the librarian who took an interest in what I was reading when I was little. She steered me towards the best books!  And, many of the greatest books for children have been written by librarians. Beverly Cleary, for example. :-)

We also teach the self-absorbed, arrogant masses how to actually use the electronic resources, as well as catalog them so people actually know that a) we have them and b) where one can access them. 

That must be why library usage and librarian numbers have been in decline for the past few decades.

[Schultz]

nevermind.

[Adela]

I also don't need to prove anything about how I look.  I am 100% Slavic.  A lot of posts here are about how beautiful Russian/Slavic women are. Well, my family has it is spades and it is often commented on by outsiders.   

Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.   

 Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....     Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.

[dzheremi]

This thread is about libraries now?

Sadly, I don't think man-hungry Australian women are too likely to find men at the library anymore, if Australia is anything like America in this regard.

[ialmisry]

I need to apologize for getting sucked up in to this senseless melee.  

There are some days where it doesn't take much to set folks off....and apparently today was that day for me.

I don't know why I found it necessary to defend myself in this thread....but, being accused (yes, go back and read it) of being almost in my 50's and kind of bitter for not having found someone to rescue me from every woman's apparently lonely and miserable existence without a man...that can only be fixed by getting a cat, and then another...and then another....kind of was the last straw.  ....and no, I am not projecting my own interpretation on the words....they were clearly meant for me.

Funny thing is that I read the OP story on the Web and posted the link...thinking it was kind of funny that a Catholic clergyman is advising women to lower their standards.  It just sounded off to me....as growing up a Christian girl, I was always taught to have HIGH standards and not get all wobbly in the knees when some handsome man paid me a bit of attention.

Well, the knees still wobble on occasion...but, I still hold on to my high standards.  

I'm not single because I delayed the all-important marriage so I could build my career.  ...and while I can't possibly speak for all women, as I have been repeated reminded, I can speak for the women that I do know....and there are plenty.

Those who are single....are not so because they wished it, or delayed marriage....they simply wanted a "good"  husband....and were not able to find him.

Personally, I wanted an Orthodox man....and all the boys (who are now men) grew up and married the girls outside the Church - who also happened to have better careers, a few turned out to prefer men over women....and only....hmm.....ONE married an Orthodox woman from another parish which he met as a boy in summer camp.

I am not sure what the men posting expect here of "older" single women.....but, let me tell you that most hold a job, some have adopted kids, others take care of their elderly parents....  None is single by choice or because of being greedy and wishing to build their careers....or hold out for Mr. Perfect with a huge bankroll.....and I don't care what the "statistics" say....statistics can be skewed any way the statistician wishes to skew them.

I am not angry....I was a bit hurt....but, the long drive home from my lucrative position at a major company with a corner office (not).....gave me time to think it over ....and realize what a waste of time this has all been.

For the men out there....I truly hope you look elsewhere for women....because apparently the ones you have come in contact with are horrible.  Seriously.  We are not all gold diggers, or career builders, or out to only please ourselves.  Most women that I know, go out of their way to please others, and put themselves dead last....to the point of exhaustion.

Don't judge anyone....and that includes elderly single women.  It's not for you to judge them.

....and all I can say....is that repeatedly being referred to as "creeping in to my 50's" on this thread has actually made me feel old.  

Thanks, guys.

I wish you all peace....and may you find exactly what it is you are looking for.  

Adios.

I didn't know you were funny. It is comical to start a thread and then pretend to have been "sucked in", as if everything you did and said was not 100% your own doing.

You were accused of nothing. I did remark that you were near 50 and single, but that is not an accusation. That is a fact.

And yes, those who are single because they had unrealistic expectations are single because they wished it. They now pay the price for their self-absorption and lack of vision.

I am a happily married man and therefore have no expectation of spinsters other than they have a bit of integrity and get over themselves. No man, ever, was good enough? So be it. It's comical the way some think the evil world craves them. Tell me another story about how the guy behind the counter at Chili's To Go offered to trade you an Awesome Blossom in exchange for hanky-panky.

No one has judged anyone. I have only described the consequences of certain actions. Also, wear a seatbelt or you might get scraped off the asphalt one day in a crash. That is not a judgment, but merely a description of cause and effect.

For an alleged apology, your post spends a lot of time congratulating yourself and blaming others.

By the way it wasn't the guy at Chili's, it was the guy at the Mediterranean place that just opened up the street.  I had worked late at my really cool job, and decided that I didn't want to do the womanly task of cooking, so, I thought I'd get carryout.  First thing "Mo" (short for Mohammad) did was check out my work "badge" and realize that I worked for a good company....all of a sudden he scoots in to the booth and sits across the table from me, asking how I like my job, how long I've been there, where do I live, why I don't have a boyfriend, and that he would love to come visit me.    I ask where he's from...and he says Egypt....I discover his whole family is still there....and he's most likely "fishing" for a greencard or sponsor.  He couldn't get over my "mesmerizing" eyes...I knew he was full of it, because it was pouring rain....and I hadn't taken an umbrella....my hair was soaked, my eyes were bloodshot from staring at a computer screen all day....and he was hitting on me.  Please.  I might be old, but, I'm not stupid.  I made sure he noticed my cross, pulled out my wallet, in which I have an icon of the Theotokos and flashed her towards him...but, he persisted.   I didn't appreciate the attention.  My standards were not too high.  I had simply come in to get some food....and didn't need to deal with this nonsense.  Of course if I had wanted to, I am sure I could probably have landed this Muslim man as a husband - at least until he got his family over here....but, there's still those high expectations that I have....and marrying a Muslim, is just slightly below the mark.

LOL!  This was the best....and you folks are going to LOVE this....as we sat there, with him gazing lovingly in to my eyes (really...he was...with his chin resting on his hand....head slightly tilted...he was pouring it on thick)....I asked how life was back home since the revolution.  Oh, he said it's tough...but, it's okay.  Then I asked how business was at the restaurant....and he said slow, but, okay....and he's looking to advertise.  .....wait for it......wait......so, his half lidded gaze snapped open....when I replied...."Well, you know you have a rather large Egyptian population not even a mile away."  He looked at me...."Yes, you didn't know?  There's a huge Coptic Church just down the road."  Oh....but...wait....you have little respect for the Copts....and are actually killing them.

Well....I guess my eyes were no longer mesmerizing after that comment.

As for being single due to unrealistic expectations.....really?  Let me double check what my expectations and high standards were all these years....oh yes....I wanted a single Orthodox man.  That was it.  Not really asking for that much, was I?  I had visions of raising a family, and wished to do that with an Orthodox husband.  ....actually, it would have been cool to have met a seminarian when I was young and to be a priest's wife.  Now THAT would have been cool.

Alas, my expectations seem to have been too high.

....and as for the price I am paying for being single...you bet there is a price.  Last time it was about $125 when I called a plumber to fix my leaking shower....which most likely my Orthodox husband would have known how to fix all on his own, and would have saved us $125.  

So is this the only man you have ever come across?

Every other man you met during your life, also not up to your expectations?

If you meet 20 people and it doesn't work out with any of them, is it solely their fault?

There's a woman i know that had boyfriend, after boyfriend, after boyfriend and they all dumped her after a while. Another woman has been engaged twice, only to have each man break it off.

The problem is purely with these women and their less than charming personalities.

That happens.

But persons, male or female, finding themselves single for no reason other than lack of interest or not finding the right person also occur.

To make a comparison, my brother, when he was a senior, was in something like half a dozen accidents.  He was never at fault, nor was he driving or doing things that increased his chances of an accident.  They occurred all over, so it wasn't location.  He just was in the wrong place at the wrong time, over and over.

Perhaps if we consider those who get married who shouldn't have, the comparison might be more even.

[ialmisry]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?

St. Peter was blue collar.  Not sure that's a good term to use as a pejorative.

Let's not forget out Lord and Savior, who was a carpenter.  Yep, a good number of the Apostles probably would have been good Union men.

Judas was definitely material for the bar.  Probably contract law.

[Adela]

This thread is about libraries now?

Sadly, I don't think man-hungry Australian women are too likely to find men at the library anymore, if Australia is anything like America in this regard.

Do you have wine-tasting events at a Whole Foods or some gourmet or organic grocery store?  That's were the women are.  One of my friends, a professional woman who is slender, articulate, well-read and a devout Catholic, goes there  to socialize.  She also wants to find a husband, but is very reserved so she can't go to a bar. 

Single people need to first figure out what they enjoy and then find mates who enjoy similiar things.  Cooking Lessons?  Wine-Tasting Events?  Dinner Clubs?  Book Discussion Clubs?   Car Shows?  Rose Societies?  Photography Clubs? Nature Walks?   Animal Rescue?  My husband and I first started talking about NASA and space shuttles.  He was reserved, as I, so it was easier to find a mutual interest and start talking.  Now we talk about everything.   I hear about sports cars and go to car shows and races.  He hears about books and libraries and art and paintings.  We share gardening interests.  He is in the kitchen talking to me while I cook dinner and he helps me clean up.  Life is very good.

[Adela]

That happens.

But persons, male or female, finding themselves single for no reason other than lack of interest or not finding the right person also occur.

To make a comparison, my brother, when he was a senior, was in something like half a dozen accidents.  He was never at fault, nor was he driving or doing things that increased his chances of an accident.  They occurred all over, so it wasn't location.  He just was in the wrong place at the wrong time, over and over.

Perhaps if we consider those who get married who shouldn't have, the comparison might be more even.

This is a very fair, reasonable post, and it is nice to hear something reasonable for a change.

[dzheremi]

Perhaps if we consider those who get married who shouldn't have, the comparison might be more even.

That is certainly the corollary, isn't it? I know more than a few who fit the bill (including family, like my brother), but had to of course go through the awful marriage and divorce first before they realized that. And I am not old. Maybe the women or men who decide not to get married are just saving themselves and their potential mates trouble down the road. I wish more people were so prudent, rather than getting married because they feel it's the thing to do, or having kids for the same reason, or going to college, or what have you. You don't actually need to have all of the experiences of life just because they're out there to be had.

[Sauron]

Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.  

Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....    Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.

What did you want me to say about engineering?

Look, here is the point. I really don't care what your job is. People in this thread have had zero compunction about deriding the practice of law, but are very quick to leap to the defense of their own jobs and those of others.

[ialmisry]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?

A useful, productive member of society.  You know, someone who produces things that people need.  I wear my blue collar proudly.  Many people depend on it.  And it has made me a pretty good living.

This is a dodge and likely dishonest. What child says, "I want to be a cog in the grand societal machine"? They say they want to be astronauts or something.

To be honest, I don't recall ever hearing of a child saying that they wanted to be a lawyer.  I know lots who said they wanted to be carpenters, truck drivers, machinists (my father's job, btw)...even garbage men (it was the truck.  How close they got to it I'd don't know).  Engineers and doctors, of course.  But lawyers, never.

Just in case anyone is curious, I wanted to be a doctor or professor/teacher when I grew up.  Mission accomplished.  My one son has switched to be a director/producer to a doctor, the other a computer programmer.

My mother nagged my brother into going to college, although he only wanted to be a mechanic.  She's a nurse, btw, my other brother an engineer (he does something with designing those towers that carry electricity: I can't say what exactly, as I know near next to nothing on engineering, although I was married to on in telecommunications/electronics.  I do know they send him around the country), my sister worked as an accountant before marriage and children.  My mother gave up on pushing the younger brother, and he turned out fine, a fine living, home, children, business of his own, etc.  Nothing wrong with wearing a blue collar, or wanting to.  Not for me, but that's just me.  Not, in my opinion, for my sons either, but I can't live their life for them.

[ialmisry]

Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.  

Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....    Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.

What did you want me to say about engineering?

Look, here is the point. I really don't care what your job is. People in this thread have had zero compunction about deriding the practice of law, but are very quick to leap to the defense of their own jobs and those of others.

most jobs don't usually intrude on you while you are minding your own business.

[Sauron]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?

A useful, productive member of society.  You know, someone who produces things that people need.  I wear my blue collar proudly.  Many people depend on it.  And it has made me a pretty good living.

This is a dodge and likely dishonest. What child says, "I want to be a cog in the grand societal machine"? They say they want to be astronauts or something.

To be honest, I don't recall ever hearing of a child saying that they wanted to be a lawyer.  I know lots who said they wanted to be carpenters, truck drivers, machinists (my father's job, btw)...even garbage men (it was the truck.  How close they got to it I'd don't know).  Engineers and doctors, of course.  But lawyers, never.

Just in case anyone is curious, I wanted to be a doctor or professor/teacher when I grew up.  Mission accomplished.  My one son has switched to be a director/producer to a doctor, the other a computer programmer.

My mother nagged my brother into going to college, although he only wanted to be a mechanic.  She's a nurse, btw, my other brother an engineer (he does something with designing those towers that carry electricity: I can't say what exactly, as I know near next to nothing on engineering, although I was married to on in telecommunications/electronics.  I do know they send him around the country), my sister worked as an accountant before marriage and children.  My mother gave up on pushing the younger brother, and he turned out fine, a fine living, home, children, business of his own, etc.  Nothing wrong with wearing a blue collar, or wanting to.  Not for me, but that's just me.  Not, in my opinion, for my sons either, but I can't live their life for them.

I cannot disagree with anything you said. The point I am making, as I just stated in a previous post, is that several had not the slightest hesitation to crack wise about my job, but got the vapors when theirs or anyone else's was discussed.

"Oh my sainted hat! How dare you talk about blue collar workers! DON'T YOU KNOW THAT OUR LORD WAS A HANDYMAN AND BOY OH BOY YOU ARE GOING TO GET IT!"

[Sauron]

Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.  

Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....    Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.

What did you want me to say about engineering?

Look, here is the point. I really don't care what your job is. People in this thread have had zero compunction about deriding the practice of law, but are very quick to leap to the defense of their own jobs and those of others.

most jobs don't usually intrude on you while you are minding your own business.

That's cops.

[vamrat]

This thread is about libraries now?

Sadly, I don't think man-hungry Australian women are too likely to find men at the library anymore, if Australia is anything like America in this regard.

Do you have wine-tasting events at a Whole Foods or some gourmet or organic grocery store?  That's were the women are.  One of my friends, a professional woman who is slender, articulate, well-read and a devout Catholic, goes there  to socialize.  She also wants to find a husband, but is very reserved so she can't go to a bar. 

Single people need to first figure out what they enjoy and then find mates who enjoy similiar things.  Cooking Lessons?  Wine-Tasting Events?  Dinner Clubs?  Book Discussion Clubs?   Car Shows?  Rose Societies?  Photography Clubs? Nature Walks?   Animal Rescue?  My husband and I first started talking about NASA and space shuttles.  He was reserved, as I, so it was easier to find a mutual interest and start talking.  Now we talk about everything.   I hear about sports cars and go to car shows and races.  He hears about books and libraries and art and paintings.  We share gardening interests.  He is in the kitchen talking to me while I cook dinner and he helps me clean up.  Life is very good.

Very nice ideas.  I am in the process of finding new interests - cooking, pool, etc.  The number of women out there who enjoy tanks is somewhere in the vicinity of 0!   

[Adela]

Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.  

Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....    Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.

What did you want me to say about engineering?

Look, here is the point. I really don't care what your job is. People in this thread have had zero compunction about deriding the practice of law, but are very quick to leap to the defense of their own jobs and those of others.

Sauron, I mean this in all kindness.  I've seen other women on this board (Biro, Liza, ....) put down and have their intelligence questioned. (I have read the Feminine Mystique, by the way.  You threw this at Liza for some reason.  Even though I read it,  I don't think radical feminism has the best answers.)

 Not all women are Human Resource staff.  Yeah, I hate the mid-year reviews but I appreciated the help from HR when I had to take medical leave for spine surgery and had nothing but paperwork and forms to deal with.

 I've seen, not necessarily by you, people told that if they aren't in Mensa, they don't have much to offer when it comes to sexual reproduction. You took the bait, by the way.  I said I was an engineer and you said I was a car door lock designer or something. Nice.  So now you know more details so can't throw another stone at me regarding my profession. 

If I ever need a lawyer, I might want a lawyer just like or. Or maybe one like Podkarpatska.  I'd have to think about it.  Do I want someone who goes for the jugular, or do I want one who carefully and methodically presents a case.  Not sure just yet.....

[Schultz]

He is a lawyer.  What do you expect?

I saw in another thread that you are blue collar. What did you want to be when you grew up?

A useful, productive member of society.  You know, someone who produces things that people need.  I wear my blue collar proudly.  Many people depend on it.  And it has made me a pretty good living.

This is a dodge and likely dishonest. What child says, "I want to be a cog in the grand societal machine"? They say they want to be astronauts or something.

To be honest, I don't recall ever hearing of a child saying that they wanted to be a lawyer.  I know lots who said they wanted to be carpenters, truck drivers, machinists (my father's job, btw)...even garbage men (it was the truck.  How close they got to it I'd don't know).  Engineers and doctors, of course.  But lawyers, never.

Just in case anyone is curious, I wanted to be a doctor or professor/teacher when I grew up.  Mission accomplished.  My one son has switched to be a director/producer to a doctor, the other a computer programmer.

My mother nagged my brother into going to college, although he only wanted to be a mechanic.  She's a nurse, btw, my other brother an engineer (he does something with designing those towers that carry electricity: I can't say what exactly, as I know near next to nothing on engineering, although I was married to on in telecommunications/electronics.  I do know they send him around the country), my sister worked as an accountant before marriage and children.  My mother gave up on pushing the younger brother, and he turned out fine, a fine living, home, children, business of his own, etc.  Nothing wrong with wearing a blue collar, or wanting to.  Not for me, but that's just me.  Not, in my opinion, for my sons either, but I can't live their life for them.

I cannot disagree with anything you said. The point I am making, as I just stated in a previous post, is that several had not the slightest hesitation to crack wise about my job, but got the vapors when theirs or anyone else's was discussed.

"Oh my sainted hat! How dare you talk about blue collar workers! DON'T YOU KNOW THAT OUR LORD WAS A HANDYMAN AND BOY OH BOY YOU ARE GOING TO GET IT!"

Then why on God's green earth did you attack me and my profession with a rather pointless and (frankly) poor insult?  I even complimented you.

The circle jerk comment had nothing to do with your profession but with the fact that a bunch of dudes were talking about rating the women they've been with/are with.

[Sauron]

Sauron, I mean this in all kindness.  I've seen other women on this board (Biro, Liza, ....) put down and have their intelligence questioned. (I have read the Feminine Mystique, by the way.  You threw this at Liza for some reason.  Even though I read it,  I don't think radical feminism has the best answers.)

That was not me. That was another poster. I do not think it is right to attribute things to me that I never said.

I've seen, not necessarily by you, people told that if they aren't in Mensa, they don't have much to offer when it comes to sexual reproduction. You took the bait, by the way.  I said I was an engineer and you said I was a car door lock designer or something. Nice.  So now you know more details so can't throw another stone at me regarding my profession.

Again, you have not read carefully. I said there are many engineers, and some design car door locks. I did not say that you did. That you tack a sarcastic "nice" after the idea that you might be a designer of car door locks says something about you. I am sorry you seem to think that work is beneath you. I wonder what else you think is beneath you.

If I ever need a lawyer, I might want a lawyer just like or. Or maybe one like Podkarpatska.  I'd have to think about it.  Do I want someone who goes for the jugular, or do I want one who carefully and methodically presents a case.  Not sure just yet.....

This is a false dichotomy. It is possible to do both, and all good lawyers do.

[Sauron]

Then why on God's green earth did you attack me and my profession with a rather pointless and (frankly) poor insult?  I even complimented your debating ability.

I don't believe that I attacked you or your profession. However, if I did, it was to make the point. (which I had already explained, but you are requiring me to explain again)

[Adela]

This thread is about libraries now?

Sadly, I don't think man-hungry Australian women are too likely to find men at the library anymore, if Australia is anything like America in this regard.

Do you have wine-tasting events at a Whole Foods or some gourmet or organic grocery store?  That's were the women are.  One of my friends, a professional woman who is slender, articulate, well-read and a devout Catholic, goes there  to socialize.  She also wants to find a husband, but is very reserved so she can't go to a bar.  

Single people need to first figure out what they enjoy and then find mates who enjoy similiar things.  Cooking Lessons?  Wine-Tasting Events?  Dinner Clubs?  Book Discussion Clubs?   Car Shows?  Rose Societies?  Photography Clubs? Nature Walks?   Animal Rescue?  My husband and I first started talking about NASA and space shuttles.  He was reserved, as I, so it was easier to find a mutual interest and start talking.  Now we talk about everything.   I hear about sports cars and go to car shows and races.  He hears about books and libraries and art and paintings.  We share gardening interests.  He is in the kitchen talking to me while I cook dinner and he helps me clean up.  Life is very good.

Very nice ideas.  I am in the process of finding new interests - cooking, pool, etc.  The number of women out there who enjoy tanks is somewhere in the vicinity of 0!  

Oh great!  This is a great plan.   And, the best thing is you will get a sparkle about you because you will be doing what makes you happy.  That is irresistable to most women.  Another good thing is you will meet other people who might know of a woman who will be right for you.    

THe Singles Groups aren't great.  I found that the other women, even if they are religious, will be quite devious if they think you are a threat.  For example, I was told,by women, to show up at different times (2 hours earlier) or different places than the group. Or, when I was going to a religious fundraiser and shared I had a new dress I wanted to wear, one woman told me, "oh no, it's going to be a blizzard. I'm just wearing slacks and a sweater."  So, I wore warm but dowdy clothes. The woman who told me not to dress up showed up in a chiffon mini-skirt with high-heeled sandals. In a Blizzard.   I guess to get rings on their fingers, belles must be on their toes......  Even religious belles....  

[Adela]

Sauron, I mean this in all kindness.  I've seen other women on this board (Biro, Liza, ....) put down and have their intelligence questioned. (I have read the Feminine Mystique, by the way.  You threw this at Liza for some reason.  Even though I read it,  I don't think radical feminism has the best answers.)

That was not me. That was another poster. I do not think it is right to attribute things to me that I never said.

I've seen, not necessarily by you, people told that if they aren't in Mensa, they don't have much to offer when it comes to sexual reproduction. You took the bait, by the way.  I said I was an engineer and you said I was a car door lock designer or something. Nice.  So now you know more details so can't throw another stone at me regarding my profession.

Again, you have not read carefully. I said there are many engineers, and some design car door locks. I did not say that you did. That you tack a sarcastic "nice" after the idea that you might be a designer of car door locks says something about you. I am sorry you seem to think that work is beneath you. I wonder what else you think is beneath you.

If I ever need a lawyer, I might want a lawyer just like or. Or maybe one like Podkarpatska.  I'd have to think about it.  Do I want someone who goes for the jugular, or do I want one who carefully and methodically presents a case.  Not sure just yet.....

This is a false dichotomy. It is possible to do both, and all good lawyers do.

To quote Ronald Reagan... "There you go again...." 

[Sauron]

Sauron, I mean this in all kindness.  I've seen other women on this board (Biro, Liza, ....) put down and have their intelligence questioned. (I have read the Feminine Mystique, by the way.  You threw this at Liza for some reason.  Even though I read it,  I don't think radical feminism has the best answers.)

That was not me. That was another poster. I do not think it is right to attribute things to me that I never said.

I've seen, not necessarily by you, people told that if they aren't in Mensa, they don't have much to offer when it comes to sexual reproduction. You took the bait, by the way.  I said I was an engineer and you said I was a car door lock designer or something. Nice.  So now you know more details so can't throw another stone at me regarding my profession.

Again, you have not read carefully. I said there are many engineers, and some design car door locks. I did not say that you did. That you tack a sarcastic "nice" after the idea that you might be a designer of car door locks says something about you. I am sorry you seem to think that work is beneath you. I wonder what else you think is beneath you.

If I ever need a lawyer, I might want a lawyer just like or. Or maybe one like Podkarpatska.  I'd have to think about it.  Do I want someone who goes for the jugular, or do I want one who carefully and methodically presents a case.  Not sure just yet.....

This is a false dichotomy. It is possible to do both, and all good lawyers do.

To quote Ronald Reagan... "There you go again...." 

Thank you for correctly attributing someone's words this time.

[Adela]

Sauron, I mean this in all kindness.  I've seen other women on this board (Biro, Liza, ....) put down and have their intelligence questioned. (I have read the Feminine Mystique, by the way.  You threw this at Liza for some reason.  Even though I read it,  I don't think radical feminism has the best answers.)

That was not me. That was another poster. I do not think it is right to attribute things to me that I never said.

I've seen, not necessarily by you, people told that if they aren't in Mensa, they don't have much to offer when it comes to sexual reproduction. You took the bait, by the way.  I said I was an engineer and you said I was a car door lock designer or something. Nice.  So now you know more details so can't throw another stone at me regarding my profession.

Again, you have not read carefully. I said there are many engineers, and some design car door locks. I did not say that you did. That you tack a sarcastic "nice" after the idea that you might be a designer of car door locks says something about you. I am sorry you seem to think that work is beneath you. I wonder what else you think is beneath you.

If I ever need a lawyer, I might want a lawyer just like or. Or maybe one like Podkarpatska.  I'd have to think about it.  Do I want someone who goes for the jugular, or do I want one who carefully and methodically presents a case.  Not sure just yet.....

This is a false dichotomy. It is possible to do both, and all good lawyers do.

To quote Ronald Reagan... "There you go again...." 

Thank you for correctly attributing someone's words this time.

My pleasure! 

[dzheremi]

Ah, I missed this earlier somehow. Sorry, Adela.

Do you have wine-tasting events at a Whole Foods or some gourmet or organic grocery store?  That's were the women are.  One of my friends, a professional woman who is slender, articulate, well-read and a devout Catholic, goes there  to socialize.  She also wants to find a husband, but is very reserved so she can't go to a bar.

I live in a college town at the moment. I'm sure there are such places here, but not in my neighborhood. Probably in the Nob Hill district, which is the more upscale part of Albuquerque that I'm afraid I don't feel very comfortable going to. But no matter, as I'm not in the market for a wife at the moment. I take seriously the idea that you should have a good job (if not necessarily a prestigious career, with respect to all the multicolored-collar fighting that is going on in this thread) before you try to get into somebody's life, so as to show a serious attitude about life and goals and all that good stuff, and unfortunately that's not quite where I am right now. Well, not that I don't have goals or anything, but they're being satisfied academically rather than financially at the moment.

Single people need to first figure out what they enjoy and then find mates who enjoy similiar things.  My husband and I first started talking about NASA and space shuttles.

That's fantastic!

He was reserved, as I, so it was easier to find a mutual interest and start talking.  Now we talk about everything.   I hear about sports cars and go to car shows and races.  He hears about books and libraries and art and paintings.  We share gardening interests.  He is in the kitchen talking to me while I cook dinner and he helps me clean up.  Life is very good.

And may it always be so. I guess if I had to come up with something like that I'd prefer a lady who enjoys PBS documentaries, good books, and at least doesn't scrunch up her face if I have to spend time every so often making funny noises to myself in pursuit of my scientific endeavors (linguistics). Anything else is just gravy. I had a young lady my life, years ago, who met 2/3s of this, so I know they're out there...somewhere...heh.

[Schultz]

Then why on God's green earth did you attack me and my profession with a rather pointless and (frankly) poor insult?  I even complimented your debating ability.

I don't believe that I attacked you or your profession. However, if I did, it was to make the point. (which I had already explained, but you are requiring me to explain again)

If you don't think that a rude and dismissive, "Come back when you're done shelving..." (which was then explained as NOT being a joke) is not a thinly veiled attack or, at the very least, could not be taken as one, I really don't know what to say and really don't have much more to say to you in this thread.

[NicholasMyra]

Can we please move this thread to private discussion so that no inquirers see it?

[orthonorm]

Can we please move this thread to private discussion so that no inquirers see it?

I already reported it for moderation with that motive among others. The first time ever I've engaged in any sort of moderating behavior. You should report it officially using the button. Maybe it will get there.

Then again, this could be an honest testament to folks about the less than stellar attitudes of men within the Orthodox Church who are single, divorced, or have purchased a bride.

[ialmisry]

Can we please move this thread to private discussion so that no inquirers see it?

I already reported it for moderation with that motive among others. The first time ever I've engaged in any sort of moderating behavior. You should report it officially using the button. Maybe it will get there.

Then again, this could be an honest testament to folks about the less than stellar attitudes of men within the Orthodox Church who are single, divorced, or have purchased a bride.

are we hearing from the unmarried?

[ialmisry]

Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.  

Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....    Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.

What did you want me to say about engineering?

Look, here is the point. I really don't care what your job is. People in this thread have had zero compunction about deriding the practice of law, but are very quick to leap to the defense of their own jobs and those of others.

Sauron, I mean this in all kindness.  I've seen other women on this board (Biro, Liza, ....) put down and have their intelligence questioned. (I have read the Feminine Mystique, by the way.  You threw this at Liza for some reason.  Even though I read it,  I don't think radical feminism has the best answers.)

No, that was me.  I don't think radical feminism/feminazis has any good answers, let alone the best. It was brought up in the context of the skewing of images she was talking about.

Just for the record, I've questioned biro from way back, but only recently learned that she is a woman.  Not that her gender matters IMHO:her ideas are a different matter.

[orthonorm]

Can we please move this thread to private discussion so that no inquirers see it?

I already reported it for moderation with that motive among others. The first time ever I've engaged in any sort of moderating behavior. You should report it officially using the button. Maybe it will get there.

Then again, this could be an honest testament to folks about the less than stellar attitudes of men within the Orthodox Church who are single, divorced, or have purchased a bride.

are we hearing from the unmarried?

You are speaking and spouting off a lot, so yes.

[LizaSymonenko]

Gosh, I hope you weren't referring to me as a feminazi. 

I love you all, and I think we need to stop ripping each other to pieces for no good reason.


This whole marriage issue is really silly.  Yes, congratulations to those who found a spouse and are happily married.  Many, many happy and blessed years!

However, many folks - women and men - remain single simply because the "right" person hasn't come along.  "Right" isn't based on their bankroll, or their height, or even how they look.

Standards are used to weed out unlikely candidates.  They are a filter.  If you love skiing, it would behoove you to find a spouse who skis.  If you love art, it would be great to have a partner who loves it, too.  It's not all about money and greed as has been stated in this thread.

The most important thing is that we are CONTENT in whatever "situation" we find ourselves in, at the moment - be it with a spouse, or on our own.

I'm not sure what Sauron expects from single women...that we should just melt into a puddle of tears and wallow in abject misery for finding ourselves to be without a man, or that we should feel like absolute losers.  He's ridiculed our careers, assumed we must all be ugly, and that we work in Human Resources.  That's just plain silly. 

My belief is that everyone should be happy with what they do have....and rejoice in the blessing that God has bestowed upon them...and instead of wallowing in self pity...go out and make their world a better place.

If you are wallowing....that means you are not out "doing"...because if you are "doing" than you are too busy to wallow.

[ialmisry]

Can we please move this thread to private discussion so that no inquirers see it?

I already reported it for moderation with that motive among others. The first time ever I've engaged in any sort of moderating behavior. You should report it officially using the button. Maybe it will get there.

Then again, this could be an honest testament to folks about the less than stellar attitudes of men within the Orthodox Church who are single, divorced, or have purchased a bride.

are we hearing from the unmarried?

You are speaking and spouting off a lot, so yes.

I'm divorce/dismarried, so am I being counted twice?  that will throw the curve off...  I was once single: can I be counted 3x?

[ialmisry]

Gosh, I hope you weren't referring to me as a feminazi. 

No. Never.

[Sauron]

I'm not sure what Sauron expects from single women...that we should just melt into a puddle of tears and wallow in abject misery for finding ourselves to be without a man, or that we should feel like absolute losers.  He's ridiculed our careers, assumed we must all be ugly, and that we work in Human Resources.  That's just plain silly. 

Allow me to dispel your uncertainty.

I think I was pretty clear on this point, and ialmisry also elucidated, but I will be clear again. I have never made any comment, whatsoever, against single women as a whole. My comments have been directed towards single women who want a mate. In other words, the "man-hungry women" who are the subject of the article that you linked when you started this thread.

If you are single and loving it, wonderful. May it be blessed. My comments are directed at the "man-hungry" women who are of the delusion that no matter what life choice they make, they are equally appealing to men and then when they are good and ready, some man needs to "man up" and marry her.

Forgive me, but that is just not how it works. We can do many things in this life, but one thing we cannot do is choose a course of action and then choose its consequences. When one chooses a course of action, one automatically chooses its consequences. If a woman wants to pursue a career until her mid-30s and then decide she wants to marry and be a mother, she needs to accept that she has less likelihood of that outcome than a woman who makes that decision at 21.

Hey, I would love to be an Olympic athlete but guess what? I'm 36, an age at which an Olympic career would be over, not starting. I missed that train. And, this is really my whole point: there comes a point when a ship has sailed.

I think I have been quite clear, but I will now use capital letters in an attempt to avoid confusion: THESE COMMENTS ARE NOT DIRECTED AT YOU SO PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THEM PERSONALLY. THEY ARE DIRECTED AT THE MAN-HUNGRY WOMEN. IF YOU ARE NOT A MAN-HUNGRY WOMAN, YOU CAN GO ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS.

[podkarpatska]

Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.  

Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....    Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.

What did you want me to say about engineering?

Look, here is the point. I really don't care what your job is. People in this thread have had zero compunction about deriding the practice of law, but are very quick to leap to the defense of their own jobs and those of others.

Sauron, I mean this in all kindness.  I've seen other women on this board (Biro, Liza, ....) put down and have their intelligence questioned. (I have read the Feminine Mystique, by the way.  You threw this at Liza for some reason.  Even though I read it,  I don't think radical feminism has the best answers.)

 Not all women are Human Resource staff.  Yeah, I hate the mid-year reviews but I appreciated the help from HR when I had to take medical leave for spine surgery and had nothing but paperwork and forms to deal with.

 I've seen, not necessarily by you, people told that if they aren't in Mensa, they don't have much to offer when it comes to sexual reproduction. You took the bait, by the way.  I said I was an engineer and you said I was a car door lock designer or something. Nice.  So now you know more details so can't throw another stone at me regarding my profession. 

If I ever need a lawyer, I might want a lawyer just like or. Or maybe one like Podkarpatska.  I'd have to think about it.  Do I want someone who goes for the jugular, or do I want one who carefully and methodically presents a case.  Not sure just yet.....

Either can be an effective advocate. It depends on the case - either approach can be valid - but often it depends on the nature of the dispute, the location of the case, the attorney for the other side or the insurance company etc.... Diversity is what makes the world go around.

[ialmisry]

Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.  

Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....    Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.

What did you want me to say about engineering?

Look, here is the point. I really don't care what your job is. People in this thread have had zero compunction about deriding the practice of law, but are very quick to leap to the defense of their own jobs and those of others.

Sauron, I mean this in all kindness.  I've seen other women on this board (Biro, Liza, ....) put down and have their intelligence questioned. (I have read the Feminine Mystique, by the way.  You threw this at Liza for some reason.  Even though I read it,  I don't think radical feminism has the best answers.)

 Not all women are Human Resource staff.  Yeah, I hate the mid-year reviews but I appreciated the help from HR when I had to take medical leave for spine surgery and had nothing but paperwork and forms to deal with.

 I've seen, not necessarily by you, people told that if they aren't in Mensa, they don't have much to offer when it comes to sexual reproduction. You took the bait, by the way.  I said I was an engineer and you said I was a car door lock designer or something. Nice.  So now you know more details so can't throw another stone at me regarding my profession. 

If I ever need a lawyer, I might want a lawyer just like or. Or maybe one like Podkarpatska.  I'd have to think about it.  Do I want someone who goes for the jugular, or do I want one who carefully and methodically presents a case.  Not sure just yet.....

Either can be an effective advocate. It depends on the case - either approach can be valid - but often it depends on the nature of the dispute, the location of the case, the attorney for the other side or the insurance company etc.... Diversity is what makes the world go around.

LOL. or brings it to a screeching halt.

[LizaSymonenko]

I think I have been quite clear, but I will now use capital letters in an attempt to avoid confusion: THESE COMMENTS ARE NOT DIRECTED AT YOU SO PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THEM PERSONALLY. THEY ARE DIRECTED AT THE MAN-HUNGRY WOMEN. IF YOU ARE NOT A MAN-HUNGRY WOMAN, YOU CAN GO ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS.

Happily going about my business..... 



Have a good day.

[J Michael]

Ha!  I guess you don't have anything more to say on the engineering/education angle.  

Sorry, that's not how women look in my family. Though I'm sure that sweet baba you posted is a terrific woman.  My raven-haired, green-eyed mother, with her cheekbones that you normally don't see outside of Mongolia,  has been asked by fellow nurses if she was a dancer.  Puzzled, my mom asked why.  They replied, "Because you have the legs of a dancer".    And, she also  graduated summa cum laude with a Master's in Nursing.   She worked full time and went to grad-school while I was in college.  I am so proud of her!

But, keep trying.....    Maybe you'll get to me yet, but so far, I'm not that impressed.

What did you want me to say about engineering?

Look, here is the point. I really don't care what your job is. People in this thread have had zero compunction about deriding the practice of law, but are very quick to leap to the defense of their own jobs and those of others.

If I ever need a lawyer, I might want a lawyer just like or. Or maybe one like Podkarpatska.  I'd have to think about it.  Do I want someone who goes for the jugular, or do I want one who carefully and methodically presents a case.  Not sure just yet.....

This: 



Vs.:



??

[vamrat]

I'd go with the Carcharodon Carcharias personally.

I hear they have a much friendlier disposition than many lawyers.

[Adela]

Ah, I missed this earlier somehow. Sorry, Adela.

Do you have wine-tasting events at a Whole Foods or some gourmet or organic grocery store?  That's were the women are.  One of my friends, a professional woman who is slender, articulate, well-read and a devout Catholic, goes there  to socialize.  She also wants to find a husband, but is very reserved so she can't go to a bar.

I live in a college town at the moment. I'm sure there are such places here, but not in my neighborhood. Probably in the Nob Hill district, which is the more upscale part of Albuquerque that I'm afraid I don't feel very comfortable going to. But no matter, as I'm not in the market for a wife at the moment. I take seriously the idea that you should have a good job (if not necessarily a prestigious career, with respect to all the multicolored-collar fighting that is going on in this thread) before you try to get into somebody's life, so as to show a serious attitude about life and goals and all that good stuff, and unfortunately that's not quite where I am right now. Well, not that I don't have goals or anything, but they're being satisfied academically rather than financially at the moment.

Single people need to first figure out what they enjoy and then find mates who enjoy similiar things.  My husband and I first started talking about NASA and space shuttles.

That's fantastic!

He was reserved, as I, so it was easier to find a mutual interest and start talking.  Now we talk about everything.   I hear about sports cars and go to car shows and races.  He hears about books and libraries and art and paintings.  We share gardening interests.  He is in the kitchen talking to me while I cook dinner and he helps me clean up.  Life is very good.

And may it always be so. I guess if I had to come up with something like that I'd prefer a lady who enjoys PBS documentaries, good books, and at least doesn't scrunch up her face if I have to spend time every so often making funny noises to myself in pursuit of my scientific endeavors (linguistics). Anything else is just gravy. I had a young lady my life, years ago, who met 2/3s of this, so I know they're out there...somewhere...heh.

Yeah, PBS is great!  Well, maybe you could find a local French Club or Spanish Club?  One of my unmarried friends went to a French Club to practice before we went on a trip to France. I think it was at a bookstore. You could pursue an interest in linguistics and not feel pressured to find a date. Just hanging out is good!  Or, maybe startup a meetup group for the language you are best with. I looked for Polish one time and found a list of people hoping one would start up in the area.  One man I worked with started his own book club to meet women.

[Adela]

I'd go with the Carcharodon Carcharias personally.

I hear they have a much friendlier disposition than many lawyers.

Yeah, since JMichael put it that way it does seem to illuminate the answer.

[J Michael]

I'd go with the Carcharodon Carcharias personally.

I hear they have a much friendlier disposition than many lawyers.

Yeah, since JMichael put it that way it does seem to illuminate the answer.

Just another boring day in court.

[serb1389]

  Warning! 

In post 193 & post 219 Punch used some very vulgar & inappropriate words to describe a fellow human being. 

This is a public warning to Punch as well as to everyone else, that vulgar language of ANY KIND is strictly prohibited by the rules of the Forum.

Also, the fact that this is an Orthodox Christian Forum should give EVERYONE pause as to WHAT they are saying and HOW they are saying it.  Any further violations of ANY of the rules in ANY way will be dealt with swiftly & with low tolerance. 

Please do not allow the demons detract us from the grace & blessings of Mid-Pentecost. 

Christ is Risen!

-Serb1389. General Fora Moderator. 

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