Author Topic: Grace does not come to those who tuck in their shirts and wear neck ties  (Read 2821 times)

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Offline amartin

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Think about the ranks of angels and saints. None of them could ever conceive of tucking in their shirts or wearing neck ties. Nor will they help those who offend the righteous order of dress on earth. Those are things of the Satan's regime to make men look like docile servants of the apostate corporate state. We must dress like the saints to gain any rank in the celestial Kingdom.

Offline augustin717

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I tend to agree with this.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Right arm, farm out, gravy!
"My doubt in Christ is not like that of a child; it was forged in a furnace of faith." - Dostoevsky

Offline Cognomen

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8 seconds I'll never have back.

Would someone please run this guy's IP to see whose troll account this is?
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Offline Hiwot

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 :laugh:

how low can you go ?

To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

Offline Shiny

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I never wear suits to Church. I'd rather go naked, let God see me as I am.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline Cognomen

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:laugh:

how low can you go ?

 ;D At least I'm giving him credit by assuming he's just a wind up merchant.  If he's not...  :angel:
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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A bit too dogmatically  expressed, but there may be some legitimacy behind the statement of the OP. Modest and humble attire certainly can't hurt our spiritual progress. I personally agree that it is better to have the lower waist region covered rather than tucking in the shirt. Nothing wrong with that I don't think. But I don't agree with the dogmatic attitude of the OP. Just my opinion.


Selam
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
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Offline Cognomen

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Well, stick around, amartin.  Some people seem to enjoy playing this game.

...there may be some legitimacy behind the statement of the OP.
Nope, it was a stupid, as are the rest of his comments.

Quote
But I don't agree with the dogmatic attitude of the OP.

Other than that, brilliant and profound observations from Elder amartin.  Keep 'em coming for our salvation!
North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).

Offline Ortho_cat

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i feel guilty sometimes being the only guy in choir without a tie or jacket

Offline Punch

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Think about the ranks of angels and saints. None of them could ever conceive of tucking in their shirts or wearing neck ties. Nor will they help those who offend the righteous order of dress on earth. Those are things of the Satan's regime to make men look like docile servants of the apostate corporate state. We must dress like the saints to gain any rank in the celestial Kingdom.

I kind of agree with this.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline FormerReformer

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We must dress like the saints to gain any rank in the celestial Kingdom.
Let's see- many of the saints wore hair shirts because the discomfort helped keep a constant sense of asceticism. More of the saints wore robes, tunics, and other mid-Roman Empire clothing. Some of the saints wore armor and kept themselves kempt as befit their service in the army.

You are either advocating everyone return to wearing robes, armor, and other mid-Roman Empire dress, along with hair shirts or heavy chains, or some such similar attire, or you are speaking nonsense.

That, or you could be telling me I actually should wear a tie, as it is the most uncomfortable piece of clothing in Western attire, and thus will help me keep a constant sense of asceticism.

Make up your mind, dude.
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Offline LBK

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Do angels wear shirts and ties?  ::)
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to PM me or email me at the address in my profile.

Offline dzheremi

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I wear a button-up shirt with a clean white t-shirt underneath it, and yes, I tuck it in. This is fairly standard, respectful but understated dress in the Western world, which is where I attend liturgy. Deal with it.

Incidentally, I've had Coptic friends tell me that I am being too formal because I button up the shirt rather than leaving the first few buttons unbuttoned, but I think that style looks sloppy and it makes me feel uncomfortable, like my shirt is moving around too much/falling off, especially during prostrations that we frequently do. They too can deal with it.

(I'm such a rebel...me and my button up church attire...haha...  ;D 8))

Offline FormerReformer

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Do angels wear shirts and ties?  ::)

*sigh* LBK, you are so up on iconography, but apparently have never seen any Anime. The correct answer is "all the time, at least in Japan".
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 06:27:20 PM by FormerReformer »
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Offline JamesR

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Well we could always go naked like we were meant to be but I would cause too much of a distraction.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline biro

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Think about the ranks of angels and saints. None of them could ever conceive of tucking in their shirts or wearing neck ties. Nor will they help those who offend the righteous order of dress on earth. Those are things of the Satan's regime to make men look like docile servants of the apostate corporate state. We must dress like the saints to gain any rank in the celestial Kingdom.

I say we open a poll on which one of the big wiseasses on this board he really is.
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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Offline Hiwot

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wear a tie, as it is the most uncomfortable piece of clothing in Western attire, and thus will help me keep a constant sense of asceticism.


so true  :laugh: :laugh:
To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

Offline Hiwot

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I wear a button-up shirt with a clean white t-shirt underneath it, and yes, I tuck it in. This is fairly standard, respectful but understated dress in the Western world, which is where I attend liturgy. Deal with it.

Incidentally, I've had Coptic friends tell me that I am being too formal because I button up the shirt rather than leaving the first few buttons unbuttoned, but I think that style looks sloppy and it makes me feel uncomfortable, like my shirt is moving around too much/falling off, especially during prostrations that we frequently do. They too can deal with it.

(I'm such a rebel...me and my button up church attire...haha...  ;D 8))

 :P :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

Offline biro

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If you don't wear a tie, how will you disguise it when sweat goes through your shirt collar? How will amartin know who does and doesn't have grace? And what will you have to slap someone with when they make too much noise in church?

I think this guy may be Stickman.
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Offline amartin

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Biro, you are a very violent person, you want to slap people, and you keep cussing at me and calling me names. Please stop the harassment.

Offline biro

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Biro, you are a very violent person, you want to slap people, and you keep cussing at me and calling me names. Please stop the harassment.

Thanks, Sticky, now go throw a toaster in the bathtub.
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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And if I seem a little strange, well, that's because I am

Offline Ansgar

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Biro, you are a very violent person, you want to slap people, and you keep cussing at me and calling me names. Please stop the harassment.

I'm pretty sure the slapping thing was a joke.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline amartin

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Biro, you are a very violent person, you want to slap people, and you keep cussing at me and calling me names. Please stop the harassment.

I'm pretty sure the slapping thing was a joke.

The righteous do not joke like that. There is not much exemplar behavior on this message board.

Offline Aindriú

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Do you people not know who amartin IS?!  :o

I'm going to need this.

Online TheMathematician

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Biro, you are a very violent person, you want to slap people, and you keep cussing at me and calling me names. Please stop the harassment.

I'm pretty sure the slapping thing was a joke.

The righteous do not joke like that. There is not much exemplar behavior on this message board.
then please, get the hell out of here if you dont like it, and dont let the door hit your butt on the way out




Post modified by moderator to clean up profanity  -PtA
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 02:47:30 AM by PeterTheAleut »

Offline scamandrius

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Biro, you are a very violent person, you want to slap people, and you keep cussing at me and calling me names. Please stop the harassment.

I'm pretty sure the slapping thing was a joke.

The righteous do not joke like that. There is not much exemplar behavior on this message board.

Well, if you're the standard of what is righteous, I'd rather be unrighteous any day of the week.
I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

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Offline amartin

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Biro, you are a very violent person, you want to slap people, and you keep cussing at me and calling me names. Please stop the harassment.

I'm pretty sure the slapping thing was a joke.

The righteous do not joke like that. There is not much exemplar behavior on this message board.
then please, get the hell out of here if you dont like it, and dont let the door hit your butt on the way out




Post modified by moderator to clean up profanity  -PtA

More cussing...
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 02:48:19 AM by PeterTheAleut »

Online TheMathematician

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Biro, you are a very violent person, you want to slap people, and you keep cussing at me and calling me names. Please stop the harassment.

I'm pretty sure the slapping thing was a joke.

The righteous do not joke like that. There is not much exemplar behavior on this message board.
then please, get the hell out of here if you dont like it, and dont let the door hit your butt on the way out




Post modified by moderator to clean up profanity  -PtA

More cussing...

more dodging the point of what is being said....


see, two can play at this game
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 02:48:40 AM by PeterTheAleut »

Offline Ansgar

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amartin, I must admit, I have failed to see the purpose of all this. You have made several threads over the last days in which you have made a statement about different theological or ethical subjects. That have been done many times before, but in all those other cases, I could always see a meaning with it. Many of them have let to very interesting discussions, but in this case I am confused. Maybe I just can't see it. So I am asking you(and please don't take this as an attack) what is your intention with all these posts? Are you trying to convince us of something, or do you just wish to discuss these subjects? (If the latter is the case, I think that maybe, we should all try a different approach).

I am merely curious.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline amartin

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amartin, I must admit, I have failed to see the purpose of all this. You have made several threads over the last days in which you have made a statement about different theological or ethical subjects. That have been done many times before, but in all those other cases, I could always see a meaning with it. Many of them have let to very interesting discussions, but in this case I am confused. Maybe I just can't see it. So I am asking you(and please don't take this as an attack) what is your intention with all these posts? Are you trying to convince us of something, or do you just wish to discuss these subjects? (If the latter is the case, I think that maybe, we should all try a different approach).

I am merely curious.

Thank you for the non-hostility.

In actuality, I am trying to get a feel for how mainline Eastern Orthodox people feel about these issues. It is an education process for me as I learn about the psychology of spiritual apostasy. And others get the benefit of perhaps hearing righteousness for the first time.

Offline Aindriú

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lol  ::)

« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 08:44:45 PM by Aindriú »

I'm going to need this.

Offline FormerReformer

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Biro, you are a very violent person, you want to slap people, and you keep cussing at me and calling me names. Please stop the harassment.

I'm pretty sure the slapping thing was a joke.

The righteous do not joke like that. There is not much exemplar behavior on this message board.

You're right:

]
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 08:47:14 PM by FormerReformer »
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!

Offline Shiny

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Do you people not know who amartin IS?!  :o

Ricky Martin?
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

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Offline HabteSelassie

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Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



I am merely curious.



stay blessed,
habte selassie
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Offline Timon

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i always walk up in the church stuntin hard in my gucci suit.  everyone watches me as i walk in, with my alligator boots, and venerate the icons.  then, i go stand in MY spot. better hope no ones standing in my spot. 
Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved.

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Online ialmisry

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I tend to agree with this.
when two or three agree on an idiocy, lo! stupidity is in the midst of them.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Cognomen

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It is an education process for me as I learn about the psychology of spiritual apostasy. And others get the benefit of perhaps hearing righteousness for the first time.

Sigline material.

I tend to agree with this.
when two or three agree on an idiocy, lo! stupidity is in the midst of them.

Actual sig-line material.  Well played!

Sorry for indirectly feeding the troll that is "amartin"
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Offline vamrat

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Amartin is the greatest thinker this forum has ever seen.  The Great Platypus has spoken and he approves of the prophesies of his servant, the martin:


amarten
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Offline Timon

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Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved.

— Chrysostom

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Offline augustin717

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I tend to agree with this.
when two or three agree on an idiocy, lo! stupidity is in the midst of them.
We need to build a large anti-bourgeois front . I detect some potential towards that in the op's statement.

Offline orthonorm

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Think about the ranks of angels and saints. None of them could ever conceive of tucking in their shirts or wearing neck ties. Nor will they help those who offend the righteous order of dress on earth. Those are things of the Satan's regime to make men look like docile servants of the apostate corporate state. We must dress like the saints to gain any rank in the celestial Kingdom.

I kind of agree with this.

augustin, GMF, Punch,

and yes, orthonorm approve of this message (sorta).

The world is coming to an end.


(sorta)
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Online ialmisry

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I tend to agree with this.
when two or three agree on an idiocy, lo! stupidity is in the midst of them.
We need to build a large anti-bourgeois front . I detect some potential towards that in the op's statement.
by all means. Forward!
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Punch

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Think about the ranks of angels and saints. None of them could ever conceive of tucking in their shirts or wearing neck ties. Nor will they help those who offend the righteous order of dress on earth. Those are things of the Satan's regime to make men look like docile servants of the apostate corporate state. We must dress like the saints to gain any rank in the celestial Kingdom.

I kind of agree with this.

augustin, GMF, Punch,

and yes, orthonorm approve of this message (sorta).

The world is coming to an end.


(sorta)

When the "dress for success" stuff was going on a few years back, I was asked why I refused to wear a tie.  I told the gathering of managers and supervisor that I saw a tie as a man's version of a tampon string.  When their heads got too far up their rear, someone could grab their tie and pull it back out.  For some reason, fewer and fewer people wore ties over the next few months.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Aindriú

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and yes, orthonorm approve of this message (sorta).

There's a surprise. I was wondering where you were.

I'm going to need this.

Offline FormerReformer

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Quick show of hands- how many of us here actually do wear ties to church on a regular basis?

How many of us attend a parish where the people our age normally wear ties as regular Sunday attire?

How many us attend parishes where those wearing ties are of that "you wear a tie to church" cross-denominational generation?

I'm just wondering where this epidemic of pants-tucking tie-wearing is, 'cause I sure as spit don't see it, and I currently attend a Greek Country Club parish.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 10:57:29 PM by FormerReformer »
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!

Offline Paisius

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Think about the ranks of angels and saints. None of them could ever conceive of tucking in their shirts or wearing neck ties. Nor will they help those who offend the righteous order of dress on earth. Those are things of the Satan's regime to make men look like docile servants of the apostate corporate state. We must dress like the saints to gain any rank in the celestial Kingdom.

think about the ranks of angels and saints none of them could ever conceive of using periods or other punctuation nor will they help those who offend the righteous order of scribing on earth those are things of the satans regime to make men look like docile servants of the apostate corporate state we must scribe like the saints to gain any rank in the celestial kingdom

Offline FormerReformer

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Think about the ranks of angels and saints. None of them could ever conceive of tucking in their shirts or wearing neck ties. Nor will they help those who offend the righteous order of dress on earth. Those are things of the Satan's regime to make men look like docile servants of the apostate corporate state. We must dress like the saints to gain any rank in the celestial Kingdom.

think about the ranks of angels and saints none of them could ever conceive of using periods or other punctuation nor will they help those who offend the righteous order of scribing on earth those are things of the satans regime to make men look like docile servants of the apostate corporate state we must scribe like the saints to gain any rank in the celestial kingdom

PUNCTUATION LIKE LOWER CASE LETTERS IS A WESTERN INNOVATION THAT DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE ORIGINAL GREEK TEXTS AND THUS SHOULD BE AVOIDED BY ALL PIOUS ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!

Offline xariskai

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When the Bible was written, NO ONE wore pants.

Thread over. Isa wins again.


Offline Alveus Lacuna

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I think a necktie can look very nice. Some of you hippies need to grow up and get a job. Stupid boomers...

Offline orthonorm

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and yes, orthonorm approve of this message (sorta).

There's a surprise. I was wondering where you were.

Dude you should see me in my custom     . You off the rack jack.

Lighten up.
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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I personally agree that it is better to have the lower waist region covered rather than tucking in the shirt.
What do you think pants do?
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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I personally agree that it is better to have the lower waist region covered rather than tucking in the shirt.
What do you think pants do?


A lot of pants don't cover much up these days. Even loose dress slacks can still reveal the form of the posterior. I think it would be nice if men and women could all wear robes to Church. But we don't want to look too different from the world, otherwise people might think we actually are different from the world.

That being said, I have much bigger issues to worry about regarding my salvation than what people wear.


Selam
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+

Offline PeterTheAleut

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I personally agree that it is better to have the lower waist region covered rather than tucking in the shirt.
What do you think pants do?


A lot of pants don't cover much up these days. Even loose dress slacks can still reveal the form of the posterior. I think it would be nice if men and women could all wear robes to Church. But we don't want to look too different from the world, otherwise people might think we actually are different from the world.

I not sure I agree with the above statement, since I'm not really sure what anyone could gain by looking at my butt, but I certainly agree with the below, so I'll just leave it at this. ;)

That being said, I have much bigger issues to worry about regarding my salvation than what people wear.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 03:04:25 AM by PeterTheAleut »
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline dcommini

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so according to the title of this thread I should have grace as I usually don't tuck in my shirt or wear a neck tie when I go to church
N/OblSB

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Offline JamesR

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...otherwise people might think we actually are different from the world.

But we are. John 15:18-19

On a more personal note, I wish that I did not have to tuck my shirt in at Church for 'male reasons'. Most slacks are rather tight nowadays and can show your manly parts if you get 'excited' during Liturgy. In normal circumstances, your shirt can be used to hide it. But when it is tucked in at Liturgy, there is nothing to hide it.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline Ansgar

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amartin, I must admit, I have failed to see the purpose of all this. You have made several threads over the last days in which you have made a statement about different theological or ethical subjects. That have been done many times before, but in all those other cases, I could always see a meaning with it. Many of them have let to very interesting discussions, but in this case I am confused. Maybe I just can't see it. So I am asking you(and please don't take this as an attack) what is your intention with all these posts? Are you trying to convince us of something, or do you just wish to discuss these subjects? (If the latter is the case, I think that maybe, we should all try a different approach).

I am merely curious.

Thank you for the non-hostility.

In actuality, I am trying to get a feel for how mainline Eastern Orthodox people feel about these issues. It is an education process for me as I learn about the psychology of spiritual apostasy. And others get the benefit of perhaps hearing righteousness for the first time.

I think this is where the problem lies. Righteousness in the Orthodox Church is seen as an entirely different thing than what you have described. Righteousness doesn't necessarily belong to the one who is able to pray the longest or the one who appear as the most pious. It belongs to he who seeks God with all his heart, he who humble himself before the Lord and who tries to follow the commandmensts of Christ. You asked us in another thread if we saw ourselves as righteous. If I look into myself and I see that I have sinned, that I have not done all I could to change myself,  should I then lie to myself by calling myself righteous, or should I acknowledge that I need to work harder.

Saint Maria of Paris said this:  

'At the Last Judgment I will not be asked whether I satisfactorily practised asceticism, nor how many bows I have made before the divine altar: I will be asked whether I fed the hungry, clothed the naked, visited the sick, and the prisoner in his jail. That is all I will be asked.'
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite

Offline Tallitot

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Do angels wear shirts and ties?  ::)
Not on casual Fridays.
Proverbs 22:7

Offline Tallitot

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I think a necktie can look very nice. Some of you hippies need to grow up and get a job. Stupid boomers...

Well said Alveus.
Proverbs 22:7

Offline Tallitot

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"Grace does not come to those who tuck in their shirts and wear neck ties"
So Grace likes guys who dress down a little? Well that's her perogative.
Proverbs 22:7

Offline Aindriú

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and yes, orthonorm approve of this message (sorta).

There's a surprise. I was wondering where you were.
Dude you should see me in my custom     . You off the rack jack.

Lighten up.

 ;D

I'm going to need this.

Offline Luckster

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I never wear suits to Church. I'd rather go naked, let God see me as I am.
There's a Protestant group for that too.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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"Grace does not come to those who tuck in their shirts and wear neck ties"
So Grace likes guys who dress down a little? Well that's her perogative.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Ortho_cat

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"Grace does not come to those who tuck in their shirts and wear neck ties"
So Grace likes guys who dress down a little? Well that's her perogative.

If this is the Grace the OP is referring to, then I can certainly understand. She's worth the suit and tie.


Offline Alveus Lacuna

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On a more personal note, I wish that I did not have to tuck my shirt in at Church for 'male reasons'. Most slacks are rather tight nowadays and can show your manly parts if you get 'excited' during Liturgy. In normal circumstances, your shirt can be used to hide it. But when it is tucked in at Liturgy, there is nothing to hide it.

 :D

Thanks for making my day!

Offline augustin717

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On a more personal note, I wish that I did not have to tuck my shirt in at Church for 'male reasons'. Most slacks are rather tight nowadays and can show your manly parts if you get 'excited' during Liturgy. In normal circumstances, your shirt can be used to hide it. But when it is tucked in at Liturgy, there is nothing to hide it.

 :D

Thanks for making my day!
Brother James, you are in dire need of purification, let alone theosis!

Offline Aindriú

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On a more personal note, I wish that I did not have to tuck my shirt in at Church for 'male reasons'. Most slacks are rather tight nowadays and can show your manly parts if you get 'excited' during Liturgy. In normal circumstances, your shirt can be used to hide it. But when it is tucked in at Liturgy, there is nothing to hide it.

Someone needs to help you with proper technique. Especially since you're staring at all the pretty girl during liturgy.

I'm going to need this.

Offline Ortho_cat

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...otherwise people might think we actually are different from the world.

But we are. John 15:18-19

On a more personal note, I wish that I did not have to tuck my shirt in at Church for 'male reasons'. Most slacks are rather tight nowadays and can show your manly parts if you get 'excited' during Liturgy. In normal circumstances, your shirt can be used to hide it. But when it is tucked in at Liturgy, there is nothing to hide it.

ah, the joys of adolescence.

Offline Tallitot

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On a more personal note, I wish that I did not have to tuck my shirt in at Church for 'male reasons'. Most slacks are rather tight nowadays and can show your manly parts if you get 'excited' during Liturgy. In normal circumstances, your shirt can be used to hide it. But when it is tucked in at Liturgy, there is nothing to hide it.

Someone needs to help you with proper technique. Especially since you're staring at all the pretty girl during liturgy.
Or watching a hot guy doing prostrations. ;)
Proverbs 22:7

Offline podkarpatska

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amartin, I must admit, I have failed to see the purpose of all this. You have made several threads over the last days in which you have made a statement about different theological or ethical subjects. That have been done many times before, but in all those other cases, I could always see a meaning with it. Many of them have let to very interesting discussions, but in this case I am confused. Maybe I just can't see it. So I am asking you(and please don't take this as an attack) what is your intention with all these posts? Are you trying to convince us of something, or do you just wish to discuss these subjects? (If the latter is the case, I think that maybe, we should all try a different approach).

I am merely curious.

Thank you for the non-hostility.

In actuality, I am trying to get a feel for how mainline Eastern Orthodox people feel about these issues. It is an education process for me as I learn about the psychology of spiritual apostasy. And others get the benefit of perhaps hearing righteousness for the first time.

I think this is where the problem lies. Righteousness in the Orthodox Church is seen as an entirely different thing than what you have described. Righteousness doesn't necessarily belong to the one who is able to pray the longest or the one who appear as the most pious. It belongs to he who seeks God with all his heart, he who humble himself before the Lord and who tries to follow the commandmensts of Christ. You asked us in another thread if we saw ourselves as righteous. If I look into myself and I see that I have sinned, that I have not done all I could to change myself,  should I then lie to myself by calling myself righteous, or should I acknowledge that I need to work harder.

Saint Maria of Paris said this:  

'At the Last Judgment I will not be asked whether I satisfactorily practised asceticism, nor how many bows I have made before the divine altar: I will be asked whether I fed the hungry, clothed the naked, visited the sick, and the prisoner in his jail. That is all I will be asked.'

Amen x3.

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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amartin, I must admit, I have failed to see the purpose of all this. You have made several threads over the last days in which you have made a statement about different theological or ethical subjects. That have been done many times before, but in all those other cases, I could always see a meaning with it. Many of them have let to very interesting discussions, but in this case I am confused. Maybe I just can't see it. So I am asking you(and please don't take this as an attack) what is your intention with all these posts? Are you trying to convince us of something, or do you just wish to discuss these subjects? (If the latter is the case, I think that maybe, we should all try a different approach).

I am merely curious.

Thank you for the non-hostility.

In actuality, I am trying to get a feel for how mainline Eastern Orthodox people feel about these issues. It is an education process for me as I learn about the psychology of spiritual apostasy. And others get the benefit of perhaps hearing righteousness for the first time.

Thank you for being forthright. It seems to me that your postings are not designed to stimulate a conversation but to satisfy pre-formed conclusions about "the psychology of spiritual apostasy." Of course. we all get to benefit from "hearing righteousness for the first time." Have I gotten this right so far?

ADDED: What do you think of the following paragraphs from the Forum Rules?

Forum Purpose & Place of the Non-Orthodox

To be clear, this site exists as an Orthodox Forum where people who identify themselves as Orthodox are given a place to discuss things pertinent to the Orthodox Faith.  In practicality, this means that there is a broad approach to allowing people from the Eastern Orthodox "Majority", the Eastern Orthodox "Traditionalists", and the Oriental Orthodox "Non-Chalcedonians" to post on topics relating to Orthodoxy.  It should be emphasized that it is the policy of this site that no one is required to affirm that any of the other groups are canonical or Orthodox, but rather the purpose of the broad approach is to allow broad discussion on topics that in academic discourse are labeled "Orthodox studies."

People who do not fit this broad, academic definition of Orthodox, such as Roman Catholics, Protestants, non-Christians, and others, are permitted to post here and to offer positive contributions to the site and corrections when their faith traditions are misrepresented.  They are not, however, permitted to attempt to bring people to other faiths.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 11:02:25 AM by Second Chance »

Offline orthonorm

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On a more personal note, I wish that I did not have to tuck my shirt in at Church for 'male reasons'. Most slacks are rather tight nowadays and can show your manly parts if you get 'excited' during Liturgy. In normal circumstances, your shirt can be used to hide it. But when it is tucked in at Liturgy, there is nothing to hide it.

 :D

Thanks for making my day!

No kidding, this got lulz from many.
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline That person

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So bowties are cool?
"Some have such command of their bowels, that they can break wind continuously at pleasure, so as to produce the effect of singing."- St. Augustine of Hippo

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Offline First Man

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I have seen a picture of St. Nikolai the Serb when he was in the United States and he was wearing a suit.

Offline First Man

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On a more personal note, I wish that I did not have to tuck my shirt in at Church for 'male reasons'. Most slacks are rather tight nowadays and can show your manly parts if you get 'excited' during Liturgy. In normal circumstances, your shirt can be used to hide it. But when it is tucked in at Liturgy, there is nothing to hide it.

Someone needs to help you with proper technique. Especially since you're staring at all the pretty girl during liturgy.

The old flip and tuck?

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Folks, I am locking this thread until further notice as there are couple of issues that I plan to discuss with the moderator team. Second Chance