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Author Topic: Evidence of neo-Protestantism in the Orthodox Study Bible  (Read 2968 times) Average Rating: 0
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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
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« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2013, 04:56:50 PM »

It is very clear that having a translation of the Bible to study personally in a private setting in an intelligible language is extremely Protestant.

Are you in Orthonorm's graduate class on Using Sarcasm to Good Effect? If so, great job!
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« Reply #46 on: May 06, 2013, 05:08:19 PM »

It is very clear that having a translation of the Bible to study personally in a private setting in an intelligible language is extremely Protestant.

Are you in Orthonorm's graduate class on Using Sarcasm to Good Effect? If so, great job!

 I think he helped write the curriculum.  Wink
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« Reply #47 on: May 06, 2013, 10:19:00 PM »

I think what Isa means is that it is unfortunate that the OT itself is not translated entirely FROM the Septuagint, as opposed to what it is, a translation from the Septuagint in those areas where it differs greatly from the Masoretic. The fact that it does adhere to the Septuagint where the texts differ is a step in the right direction, the right direction being an entire translation of the Septuagint into the English language- not a further refined or superior translation (whatever that means) of the OT.

So we are waiting for a Holy Synod of an Orthodox Church on American soil to translate the Greek Septuagint to English?  Isn't the OT in the OSB a "good enough" English translation of the Septuagint?

Really the Septuagints and their versions in English translation is overblown. While interesting to have them in better English versions. It ain't going to do much for nearly anyone in Christendom.

Overblown?  What would you like to see in an English translation of the Septuagint?

Is there an English translation of the Septuagint that is not overblown?

Dropped a word(s).

I am saying the SeptuagintS (there is no Septuagint) don't matter. Their importance in English translation is almost nil for 99% of us.

There is not one Hebrew Old Testament or one Greek New Testament either. So, who cares?

Well, which version of the Septuagint should translations be based upon?

That wasn't the intent of my comment. I was making mention that there are multiple primary texts for the Greek and Hebrew Old Testaments and the Greek New Testament, not to mention the Scriptures translated in ancient times into other languages, as well as the Samaritan Scriptures, which are often used in translation for comparative purposes.
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« Reply #48 on: May 06, 2013, 10:47:23 PM »

I don't really get the anti-OSB tendencies that some folks on here have. Sure, it's geared toward the Protestant convert-to-Orthodoxy group, however, in all my time using it, I've never really noticed anything that I would consider Protestant or heretical in it--and usually I notice those things quick. Unless you are reading it with the intention of finding something heretical that you could say is an example of Protestant influence, I don't think you'll find anything. For an English Bible that's practical, affordable, and Orthodox, the OSB is the best you are going to get. People like to go on about how it's more of a hybrid between the Masoretic and Septuagint (opposed to just Septuagint), but, let's face it: unless you are reading the documents in their original language, I don't think that you are going to notice anything different in them. And if you are really curious about a particular passage, then you're better off looking it up on the internet in its original Greek or using a Greek-English dictionary/concordance.
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« Reply #49 on: May 06, 2013, 11:00:57 PM »

For those who have found discrepancies in the OSB, what Bible do you prefer and why?
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« Reply #50 on: May 07, 2013, 03:23:25 PM »

For those who have found discrepancies in the OSB, what Bible do you prefer and why?

-crickets-
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« Reply #51 on: May 07, 2013, 03:27:33 PM »

For those who have found discrepancies in the OSB, what Bible do you prefer and why?

The Novum Testamentum Graece for the New Testament and the Rahlfs Septuagint for the Old Testament. Those are the closest to the original Tongue

« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 03:27:41 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #52 on: May 07, 2013, 04:06:54 PM »

On a somewhat serious note, why hasn't Cyrillic tried to publish a translation yet? Haven't you already gone through extensive efforts to translate large portions of the Scriptures into Finnish and English?
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« Reply #53 on: May 07, 2013, 07:20:02 PM »


I see very, very little, if any mention of Roman Catholicism or anti-RC sentiment in the OSB.  The person who brought up neo-Protestantism hasn't bothered to substantiate it.


What part of "I got rid of it" did you miss?  Otherwise, I would be happy to go through the thing line by line with you.
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« Reply #54 on: May 07, 2013, 07:28:39 PM »

For those who have found discrepancies in the OSB, what Bible do you prefer and why?

The text itself (at least of the NT) is the NKJV which I happen to like.  What I would like to have is an Orthodox Bible without all of the commentary.  It adds bulk, but little substance.  If I could get a version of the OSB without the "S", I would buy it.
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« Reply #55 on: May 07, 2013, 08:35:19 PM »

For those who have found discrepancies in the OSB, what Bible do you prefer and why?

The text itself (at least of the NT) is the NKJV which I happen to like.  What I would like to have is an Orthodox Bible without all of the commentary.  It adds bulk, but little substance.  If I could get a version of the OSB without the "S", I would buy it.

I'll talk with one of my priests and see if he might have any of the original pages of the OSB lying around that don't have the commentary to it (he helped to compile the OSB). My wife filed some of those papers when she worked for him, but she doesn't remember the content therein. If he does have any I'll see what I can do about getting you an OSB.
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« Reply #56 on: May 07, 2013, 11:02:26 PM »

For those who have found discrepancies in the OSB, what Bible do you prefer and why?

The text itself (at least of the NT) is the NKJV which I happen to like.  What I would like to have is an Orthodox Bible without all of the commentary.  It adds bulk, but little substance.  If I could get a version of the OSB without the "S", I would buy it.
Same here. I've never much liked study notes, and as someone whose job involves arranging things on pages for print, I feel like visually the OSB notes are distracting from the text itself. This criticism  is not directed solely to this particular publication, however; I feel that way about most study Bibles.
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« Reply #57 on: May 07, 2013, 11:13:33 PM »


I see very, very little, if any mention of Roman Catholicism or anti-RC sentiment in the OSB.  The person who brought up neo-Protestantism hasn't bothered to substantiate it.


What part of "I got rid of it" did you miss?  Otherwise, I would be happy to go through the thing line by line with you.

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« Reply #58 on: May 07, 2013, 11:19:07 PM »

I got this Bible when I started inquiring, mostly because I didn't have any Bibles with the non-Protestant books. It's a little bulky, and as someone commented it doesn't add much substance.

It has interesting page articles (whatever I should call them, I think you'll know what I mean if you ahve one), especially coming into Orthodoxy, but teh footnotes are very repetitive.
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« Reply #59 on: May 08, 2013, 01:49:32 AM »

For those who have found discrepancies in the OSB, what Bible do you prefer and why?

The EOB for New Testament: I consider the accompanying articles superior; the translation more useful because it fills a niche of classy vernacular between the NKJV and other more vernacular translations, and because it draws from a variety of existing translations (including the YLT, one of my favorites) as well as neo-Orthodox perspectives on certain words. It also documents major variants and contains edifying word notes.

The RSV for Old Testament. Superior multi-approach commentary. One major flaw is "steadfast love" instead of "mercy" in the psalms, makes for clunky recitation.
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« Reply #60 on: May 08, 2013, 03:43:24 AM »

as well as neo-Orthodox perspectives on certain words

Didn't it translate hypostasis as person - a meaning it only acquired in the fourth century AD?  Too bad that they translate the OT from Brendon's LXX, and those notes with what the MT says litter the pages too much and are largely superfluous.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 03:47:29 AM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #61 on: May 08, 2013, 03:55:30 AM »

On a somewhat serious note, why hasn't Cyrillic tried to publish a translation yet?

TBH, not much is needed for a good Orthodox Bible in English. Just revise the NETS to get rid of their de-emphasis on the Trinity, their gender-neutral language and opt for some small textual changes to make the text agree with the NT and the Fathers.

For the notes, just insert some Patristic quotes from the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture in the appropriate places supplemented by some later Orthodox Fathers. Oh, and don't forget to write silly introductions to each book ("This is Genesis - Moses wrote it etc").

A new translation of the NT wouldn't be too much of a hassle.

« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 03:58:37 AM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #62 on: May 08, 2013, 03:58:09 AM »

On a somewhat serious note, why hasn't Cyrillic tried to publish a translation yet?

TBH, not much is needed for a good Orthodox Bible in English. Just revise the NETS to get rid of their de-emphasis on the Trinity, their gender-neutral language and opt for some small textual changes to make the text agree with the NT and the Fathers.

For the notes, just insert some Patristic quotes from the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture in the appropriate places supplemented by some later Orthodox Fathers. Oh, and don't forget to write silly introductions to each book ("This is Genesis - Moses wrote it etc"). A new translation of the NT wouldn't be too much of a hassle.



I'll write those silly introductions for you to take some of it off your plate.
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« Reply #63 on: May 08, 2013, 08:17:26 AM »

It is very clear that having a translation of the Bible to study personally in a private setting in an intelligible language is extremely Protestant.

Biblical ignorance among the laity en masse is tradtion?
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« Reply #64 on: May 08, 2013, 06:47:36 PM »

It is very clear that having a translation of the Bible to study personally in a private setting in an intelligible language is extremely Protestant.

Biblical ignorance among the laity en masse is tradtion?

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« Reply #65 on: May 11, 2013, 04:36:35 AM »

As a Protestant, I've found the Orthodox Study Bible very useful and insightful. But then again, I've not had enough experience with Orthodoxy to tell you how truly 'Orthodox' it is or isn't. It just seems to me that people get too bent out of shape over language. Cause, you know, if it doesn't have the word 'theosis' in it about fifty thousand times, it's not Orthodox. Smiley  

As far as the 'noetic prayer' thing is concerned, I've never heard such a claim in any Orthodox source I've ever read, that only those who have fully developed interior prayer are 'temples of the Holy Spirit'. For one thing, St. Paul was writing this to the Corinthian Church, and in the same epistle he grills them for all kinds of things that show them to have been pretty far from perfect sanctity and spiritual maturity, and yet even these fledgling Christians are being told that they are temples of the Holy Spirit.
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« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2013, 04:29:51 PM »

TBH, not much is needed for a good Orthodox Bible in English. Just revise the NETS to get rid of their de-emphasis on the Trinity, their gender-neutral language and opt for some small textual changes to make the text agree with the NT and the Fathers.

Get rid of the transliterated Hellenised names too.
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