Author Topic: A Greek founded the Baptist church  (Read 630 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
A Greek founded the Baptist church
« on: May 04, 2012, 06:54:55 PM »
The title is a bit hyperbolic, but it seems that the Baptist practice of total immersion was in part (there were other factors) due to the advocacy by a Greek in England. A certain Marke Luker, "a Greek who was known to advocate [total] immersion before 1640," was a member of a church led by Samuel Eaton, the first "Particular" (Calvinist) Baptist church, established 1833.  [H. Leon McBeth, The Baptist Heritage, 1987, p. 43]
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 07:00:08 PM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline David Young

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,903
  • 2012, at the Presbyterian chapel, Nantyr
    • Some of my sermons preached at Bradley Road
  • Faith: Baptist
  • Jurisdiction: local church, Wrexham
Re: A Greek founded the Baptist church
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2012, 12:22:25 PM »
the first "Particular" (Calvinist) Baptist church, established 1833.  [H. Leon McBeth, The Baptist Heritage, 1987, p. 43]

McBeth got it wrong. It was 1633.
"But if you bite and devour one another, take heed that you are not consumed by one another." Galatians 5.15

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: A Greek founded the Baptist church
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2012, 09:56:16 PM »
the first "Particular" (Calvinist) Baptist church, established 1833.  [H. Leon McBeth, The Baptist Heritage, 1987, p. 43]

McBeth got it wrong. It was 1633.
He got it right. I quoted McBeth incorrectly.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline David Young

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,903
  • 2012, at the Presbyterian chapel, Nantyr
    • Some of my sermons preached at Bradley Road
  • Faith: Baptist
  • Jurisdiction: local church, Wrexham
Re: A Greek founded the Baptist church
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2012, 03:37:04 AM »
it seems that the Baptist practice of total immersion was in part (there were other factors) due to the advocacy by a Greek in England. ... established 1633.

Actually, the Particular Baptists were not the first. The first Baptist church in England was the General (i.e. Arminian) Baptist church in London established in 1612 by English refugees returning from Holland, where they had begun the church a year or so earlier under the leadership of one John Smyth.
"But if you bite and devour one another, take heed that you are not consumed by one another." Galatians 5.15

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: A Greek founded the Baptist church
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2012, 11:11:46 AM »
it seems that the Baptist practice of total immersion was in part (there were other factors) due to the advocacy by a Greek in England. ... established 1633.

Actually, the Particular Baptists were not the first. The first Baptist church in England was the General (i.e. Arminian) Baptist church in London established in 1612 by English refugees returning from Holland, where they had begun the church a year or so earlier under the leadership of one John Smyth.
True, but did the Smythians practice total immersion as a regular ritual? McBeth argues that it was the Particularists who really made immersion into a regular Baptist practice. The General Baptists did pouring, and some immersion now and then, until they imitated the Particularists in going for full immersion, so suggests McBeth.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline David Young

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,903
  • 2012, at the Presbyterian chapel, Nantyr
    • Some of my sermons preached at Bradley Road
  • Faith: Baptist
  • Jurisdiction: local church, Wrexham
Re: A Greek founded the Baptist church
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2012, 03:29:12 PM »
but did the Smythians practice total immersion as a regular ritual?... The General Baptists did pouring, and some immersion now and then,

I believe you are right, that they did indeed practise 'affusion' at first. I recall reading that recently when beginning some initial reading for a 400th anniversary we hope to put on at church later this year.
"But if you bite and devour one another, take heed that you are not consumed by one another." Galatians 5.15