Poll

Do you consider yourself to be righteous?

I am among the righteous
5 (15.2%)
I am somewhere in between
3 (9.1%)
I am not among the righteous
25 (75.8%)

Total Members Voted: 33

Author Topic: Are you righteous? Yes or no...  (Read 4072 times)

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Offline amartin

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Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« on: May 04, 2012, 06:41:26 PM »
Lets see how many here are among the righteous. The fact is that we have to be righteous to get into the level of heaven where the saints are. The poll is anonymous so it doesn't involve pride. For the record, I believe that I am only in between the righteous and the unrighteous. I am not intending to judge others...
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 06:41:50 PM by amartin »

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2012, 06:42:29 PM »
No. I am going to hell most certainly.
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Offline biro

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2012, 06:44:46 PM »
Nuh-uh. I think I'll wind up swabbing the floors outside the Pearly Gates, while everybody else hands their "I kissed a puppy" or "I liked my Grandma" chits to St. Peter.  :-\
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2012, 06:52:01 PM »
Maybe some day. For now my condition is fairly close to the sick sinner mentioned in this verse:

"When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Mk. 2:17)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 06:53:09 PM by Asteriktos »
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2012, 06:52:46 PM »
Actually, it does involve pride.  One doesn't have to be recognized in order to be prideful.  The moment a Christian believes himself to be righteous is the moment he is not.  
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2012, 06:53:26 PM »
No.  Are details necessary?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
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                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Shiny

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2012, 06:53:44 PM »
Levels of heaven you say?

How about 8-4?
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Offline Big Chris

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2012, 06:54:45 PM »
On a subconscious level I obviously think I am very righteous which is why I act like the libertine I truly am despite all my pious posturing.
Tasting is Believing

Offline amartin

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2012, 06:56:14 PM »
The moment a Christian believes himself to be righteous is the moment he is not.  

100% False. You have to believe that you are among the righteous in order to even receive the Mysteries.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2012, 07:00:00 PM »
The moment a Christian believes himself to be righteous is the moment he is not.  

100% False. You have to believe that you are among the righteous in order to even receive the Mysteries.

Holy things are for the holy. Yet only one is holy, and one is lord: Jesus Christ. We are allowed to commune because of God's grace, because we are in need of healing, not because we are already righteous.
"My doubt in Christ is not like that of a child; it was forged in a furnace of faith." - Dostoevsky

Offline LBK

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2012, 07:00:43 PM »
The moment a Christian believes himself to be righteous is the moment he is not.  

100% False. You have to believe that you are among the righteous in order to even receive the Mysteries.

You obviously have no idea what the Pre-Communion Prayers have to say. Not to mention just about every other Orthodox prayer, even the ones said by priests in the altar during Liturgy.
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Offline WeldeMikael

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2012, 07:01:18 PM »
Actually, it does involve pride.  One doesn't have to be recognized in order to be prideful.  The moment a Christian believes himself to be righteous is the moment he is not.  

I agree.

Haughtiness...

Offline biro

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2012, 07:01:33 PM »
The moment a Christian believes himself to be righteous is the moment he is not.  

100% False. You have to believe that you are among the righteous in order to even receive the Mysteries.

Holy things are for the holy. Yet only one is holy, and one is lord: Jesus Christ. We are allowed to commune because of God's grace, because we are in need of healing, not because we are already righteous.

Zing!  :angel:
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Offline FormerReformer

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2012, 07:01:44 PM »
Lets see how many here are among the righteous. The fact is that we have to be righteous to get into the level of heaven where the saints are. The poll is anonymous so it doesn't involve pride. For the record, I believe that I am only in between the righteous and the unrighteous. I am not intending to judge others...

I wonder how many of the saints would answer to the positive on this poll....

I suspect none.
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

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Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2012, 07:07:10 PM »
Who judges who is righteous?

(It's a rhetorical question.)

Offline biro

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2012, 07:09:35 PM »
Who judges who is righteous?

(It's a rhetorical question.)

I bet I could draw a big diagram with arrows in a circle, for this one. And then I'd explode.
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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Offline Timon

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2012, 07:10:01 PM »
My swag is righteous.
Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved.

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Offline biro

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2012, 07:11:29 PM »
Okay, who's the perky camper who picked 'Yes'? Did you drink too much coffee this morning?
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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Offline Hiwot

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2012, 07:28:44 PM »
Lets see how many here are among the righteous. The fact is that we have to be righteous to get into the level of heaven where the saints are. The poll is anonymous so it doesn't involve pride. For the record, I believe that I am only in between the righteous and the unrighteous. I am not intending to judge others...

Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.  Matthew 11:29



 Luke 1 :46-55
Douay-Rheims Bible   

46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord.

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

49 Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name.

50 And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.

51 He hath shewed might in his arm: he hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart.

52 He hath put down the mighty from their seat, and hath exalted the humble.

53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

54 He hath received Israel his servant, being mindful of his mercy:

55 As he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his seed for ever.
........//......

Luke 18:9-14

9He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayeda thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”


1Peter 5:5

Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “


Proverbs 3:34
He mocks proud mockers but gives grace to the humble


Proverbs 21:24
The proud and arrogant man--"Mocker" is his name; he behaves with overweening pride.

Proverbs 15:33

The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honor is humility!


proverbs 16:18

Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.
To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

Offline Hiwot

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2012, 07:33:14 PM »
To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

Offline Hiwot

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2012, 07:33:53 PM »
Okay, who's the perky camper who picked 'Yes'? Did you drink too much coffee this morning?

LOL you killed me biro! you are so hilarious!
To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

Offline LBK

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2012, 07:34:40 PM »
Lets see how many here are among the righteous. The fact is that we have to be righteous to get into the level of heaven where the saints are. The poll is anonymous so it doesn't involve pride. For the record, I believe that I am only in between the righteous and the unrighteous. I am not intending to judge others...

Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.  Matthew 11:29



 Luke 1 :46-55
Douay-Rheims Bible   

46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord.

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

49 Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name.

50 And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.

51 He hath shewed might in his arm: he hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart.

52 He hath put down the mighty from their seat, and hath exalted the humble.

53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

54 He hath received Israel his servant, being mindful of his mercy:

55 As he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his seed for ever.
........//......

Luke 18:9-14

9He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayeda thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”


1Peter 5:5

Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “


Proverbs 3:34
He mocks proud mockers but gives grace to the humble


Proverbs 21:24
The proud and arrogant man--"Mocker" is his name; he behaves with overweening pride.

Proverbs 15:33

The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honor is humility!


proverbs 16:18

Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

Wonder if acts420 will quote these about himself .... ::)
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Offline biro

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2012, 07:37:36 PM »
Okay, who's the perky camper who picked 'Yes'? Did you drink too much coffee this morning?

LOL you killed me biro! you are so hilarious!

Thanks.  :)
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Offline amartin

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2012, 07:39:58 PM »
The truly righteous KNOW that they are righteous and don't mind telling people the truth because it's by cooperation with grace. To claim to not be righteous is to hide the light. Yashua said to let your light shine before all of humanity.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2012, 07:51:13 PM »
The truly righteous KNOW that they are righteous and don't mind telling people the truth because it's by cooperation with grace. To claim to not be righteous is to hide the light. Yashua said to let your light shine before all of humanity.

The light that seems to come from us is actually from God. We are like mirrors reflecting His light. God cleans us because we are dirty mirrors, and we cooperate in helping to get ourselves clean, so that we become better and better at reflecting the light, but in the end it's really just His light, and He's the one who's pretty much doing most of the cleaning. We're just happy to not be so smudged any more, but it's not like we think we're the bees knees or something.

"So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do." (Lk. 17:10)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 07:52:22 PM by Asteriktos »
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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2012, 07:55:17 PM »
CHRIST is the true light, and as we say in the prayers of the Agpeya, "in Your light, we shall see light".

This is the light which has illuminated the saints, not by declaring themselves righteous.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2012, 07:58:26 PM »
Lets see how many here are among the righteous. The fact is that we have to be righteous to get into the level of heaven where the saints are. The poll is anonymous so it doesn't involve pride. For the record, I believe that I am only in between the righteous and the unrighteous. I am not intending to judge others...

Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.  Matthew 11:29



 Luke 1 :46-55
Douay-Rheims Bible   

46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord.

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

49 Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name.

50 And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.

51 He hath shewed might in his arm: he hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart.

52 He hath put down the mighty from their seat, and hath exalted the humble.

53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.

54 He hath received Israel his servant, being mindful of his mercy:

55 As he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his seed for ever.
........//......

Luke 18:9-14

9He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayeda thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”


1Peter 5:5

Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “


Proverbs 3:34
He mocks proud mockers but gives grace to the humble


Proverbs 21:24
The proud and arrogant man--"Mocker" is his name; he behaves with overweening pride.

Proverbs 15:33

The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honor is humility!


proverbs 16:18

Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

Wonder if acts420 will quote these about himself .... ::)

I think you are getting your posters mixed up.
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2012, 07:59:44 PM »
I think you are getting your posters mixed up.

Nah, LBK meant acts420... the dialoguez have been degeneratin' over on one of the other threads...
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2012, 08:02:08 PM »
I think you are getting your posters mixed up.

Nah, LBK meant acts420... the dialoguez have been degeneratin' over on one of the other threads...

I saw.

Acts420 didn't listen to my werdz ovs advizez on how to play da game.
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Offline Ansgar

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2012, 08:04:25 PM »
The truly righteous KNOW that they are righteous and don't mind telling people the truth because it's by cooperation with grace. To claim to not be righteous is to hide the light. Yashua said to let your light shine before all of humanity.
To hide ones righteousness can be an act of humility. Humility comes from a peaceful heart. A person who is truly righteous doesn't need to proclaim his own righteousness, it is revealed by his life. Saint Seraphim of Sarov said "Acquire a peacefull heart and thousands around you will be saved".
I don't consider myself to be righteous. I don't strive to become a part of the Church because I think I am worthy of it. I do it because I acknowledge that I am sick and that the holy Mysteries are the medicin which God in his great mercy has granted us.
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

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Offline amartin

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2012, 08:08:50 PM »
I guess "Orthodoxy" is a church of unrighteous sinners then?

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THE MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH ARE CALLED SAINTS!

Saints means holy ones, or in other words the righteous.

How could you be so blind to this?


Offline biro

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2012, 08:10:08 PM »
I guess "Orthodoxy" is a church of unrighteous sinners then?

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THE MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH ARE CALLED SAINTS!

Saints means holy ones, or in other words the righteous.

How could you be so blind to this?



Please stop condemning. We all need forgiveness.

He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2012, 08:10:56 PM »
I guess "Orthodoxy" is a church of unrighteous sinners then?

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THE MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH ARE CALLED SAINTS!

Saints means holy ones, or in other words the righteous.

How could you be so blind to this?



I'm not. Plenty of saints met in my time. I ain't one.

No false humble.

See a couple of you in hell.
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Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2012, 08:11:07 PM »
I read "Are you righteous?" and this is what immediately popped into my head. I think it sums it up nicely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDgq-K2oYLo
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2012, 08:13:42 PM »
I guess "Orthodoxy" is a church of unrighteous sinners then?

Sokath! His eyes uncovered!
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2012, 08:17:42 PM »
I guess "Orthodoxy" is a church of unrighteous sinners then?

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THE MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH ARE CALLED SAINTS!

Saints means holy ones, or in other words the righteous.

How could you be so blind to this?



I'm not. Plenty of saints met in my time. I ain't one.

No false humble.

See a couple of you in hell.

"We ain't going to hell folks"

 ;)
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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2012, 08:20:41 PM »
Hahaha. Yes, ZZ!

And amartin: Yes, of COURSE the Orthodox Church full of sinners! Go back and read what happened to the Donatists, Novatianists and other rigorists in early church history. They were condemned, one and all. Why? Because repentance is always available, so long as we live. And what is the key to repentance? Humility. This is why the saints rightly called it the greatest of all virtues, rather than elevating themselves above others as though they do not need it because they are already righteous.

Offline Timon

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2012, 08:27:04 PM »
I read "Are you righteous?" and this is what immediately popped into my head. I think it sums it up nicely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDgq-K2oYLo

hahaha!
Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved.

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Offline Timon

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Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved.

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Offline Ansgar

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2012, 08:32:07 PM »
I guess "Orthodoxy" is a church of unrighteous sinners then?

IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THE MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH ARE CALLED SAINTS!

Saints means holy ones, or in other words the righteous.

How could you be so blind to this?



No man is without sin. To be righteous doesn't mean that you are without sin. It means to have God in your heart(I know, I sound like a protestant) and to follow the path which Christ showed us. Yes, the members of the church are called saints, but remember amartin, that Ananias and Sapphira were members of the Church and yet, they lied, not only to Peter but also to God(Acts, chapter 5).
Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

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Offline Hiwot

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2012, 08:52:57 PM »
off tangent, here is one story my grandpa told me when I was a child.

So these two men who have spent their lives in all manners of sin die and go to face the judgement seat of Christ. before Christ ,all the saints and angels their sins are read and are told to go to hell. none of them looked terrified instead suddenly one of the men started running towards hell, the other walked drugging his feet and after each step he turns his head and looks back at Christ.
seeing this the Lord tells the men, to stop and come back. the man that was running stops and comes running back but the other one started to smile and strolled like a confident man back to the judgement seat. The Lord then asked them each why they were behaving that way. the man who was running said;" Lord all my life I have spent disobeying you with great enthusiasm, so I see now that your judgement is just, and if it is the last thing I can do in obedience of you, then I will go with great enthusiasm to hell.' then the Lord turned to the other man and said what about you?  then the man answered," well Lord all my life I have heard that the Son of Mary is Merciful and Kind, I knew soon enough your heart will be moved by your mercy and that you will call me back I was anticipating your call.' so the story goes that the Lord was deeply moved by what they both said and forgave them and they entered paradise.

........
so his Loving kindness is infinite is the moral of the story :)

Isaiah 42:3 The bruised reed he shall not break, and smoking flax he shall not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.

« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 08:53:42 PM by Hiwot »
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Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

Offline Hiwot

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2012, 09:05:09 PM »
I read "Are you righteous?" and this is what immediately popped into my head. I think it sums it up nicely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDgq-K2oYLo
LOL hilarious!
To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.

Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2012, 09:15:42 PM »
It's what was in my heart.  ;) :P :D
"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14

Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2012, 09:34:12 PM »
amartin, I think the better question is "Are you a jackass?"
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2012, 09:34:12 PM »
Okay, who's the perky camper who picked 'Yes'? Did you drink too much coffee this morning?

I'm going with amartin
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

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American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2012, 09:47:56 PM »
It's what was in my heart.  ;) :P :D

I am now watching this movie, thanks to this thread. Best thing to come out of an amartin thread, without a doubt.



Have you seen my stapler?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 09:51:38 PM by dzheremi »

Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2012, 10:14:53 PM »
It's what was in my heart.  ;) :P :D

I am now watching this movie, thanks to this thread. Best thing to come out of an amartin thread, without a doubt.



Have you seen my stapler?

You can even get a Lumbergh T!




"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14

Offline dzheremi

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2012, 10:16:33 PM »
Wow. That would be great...

Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2012, 10:17:57 PM »
Twenty bucks. Seems kind of steep for a t-shirt. But it is a Lumbergh t-shirt, so you have to factor that in.
"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14

Offline amartin

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2012, 10:26:20 PM »
amartin, I think the better question is "Are you a jackass?"

Only the heathen cuss. I guess this is only a church of sinners and not saints after all.

Offline dzheremi

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2012, 10:36:28 PM »
"I thought I was getting a Pudding Pop, but they gave me a Fudgesicle! It's NOT THE SAAAAME! WAAAAH!"

Grow up, amartin. I would rather be a repentant sinner surrounded by those who can help me pick myself up when I fall than all alone in a bubble of my own false piety and self-righteousness.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 10:37:35 PM by dzheremi »

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2012, 11:04:56 PM »
amartin, I think the better question is "Are you a jackass?"

Only the heathen cuss. I guess this is only a church of sinners and not saints after all.

Three people on this forum helped me get back up after I took the wrong stance.

Who do you have, other than yourself, to correct you when you err (or better yet, if you ever err)?

Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #52 on: May 05, 2012, 12:50:35 AM »
amartin, I think the better question is "Are you a jackass?"

Only the heathen cuss. I guess this is only a church of sinners and not saints after all.

Well, actually, I'm not in the Orthodox Church.
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2012, 01:02:08 AM »
There's a word we use to speak of those who consider themselves righteous. We call them self-righteous. Usually that word is used as an adjective to modify other labels such as hypocrite, phony, bastard, and a few others that are not repeatable on this forum.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 03:02:30 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline mike

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #54 on: May 05, 2012, 01:52:46 AM »
I'm not, I'm a left-hander.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #55 on: May 05, 2012, 01:54:40 AM »
I'm not, I'm a left-hander.
All geniuses are. ;D
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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #56 on: May 05, 2012, 02:06:57 AM »
Well then...now I feel almost vindicated. Take that, right-handed world.



I'm in there, I swear. 8)

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #57 on: May 05, 2012, 02:13:45 AM »
I'm not, I'm a left-hander.
Well, since the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body and the left side of the brain controls the right side of the body, it goes to reason that left-handers are the only persons in their right mind. :D (FWIW, I'm a righty, and very much so.)
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 02:17:16 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #58 on: May 05, 2012, 02:42:04 AM »
Lets see how many here are among the righteous. The fact is that we have to be righteous to get into the level of heaven where the saints are. The poll is anonymous so it doesn't involve pride. For the record, I believe that I am only in between the righteous and the unrighteous. I am not intending to judge others...

the one who calls himself righteous is immediately taken by pride.

Offline Ansgar

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #59 on: May 05, 2012, 05:38:58 AM »
I'm not, I'm a left-hander.
All geniuses are. ;D

Power to the left-handed  :D
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #60 on: May 05, 2012, 06:48:10 AM »
I'm not, I'm a left-hander.
All geniuses are. ;D

Power to the left-handed  :D
So says the one sitting at the right hand of power. ;)
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Offline Wyatt

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #61 on: May 05, 2012, 01:01:21 PM »
Christ is my righteousness

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #62 on: May 05, 2012, 01:16:52 PM »
The moment a Christian believes himself to be righteous is the moment he is not.  

100% False. You have to believe that you are among the righteous in order to even receive the Mysteries.

Maybe your mysteries, but not the true Holy Mysteries.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #63 on: May 05, 2012, 01:18:52 PM »
The truly righteous KNOW that they are righteous and don't mind telling people the truth because it's by cooperation with grace. To claim to not be righteous is to hide the light. Yashua said to let your light shine before all of humanity.

You should stop listening to demons.

None of the saints ever claimed to be holy or righteous, but the worst of sinners.
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #64 on: May 05, 2012, 01:23:09 PM »
Christ is my righteousness

Amen!
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
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I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #65 on: May 05, 2012, 04:10:44 PM »
I'm not, I'm a left-hander.

Sinister here too.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #66 on: May 05, 2012, 04:11:40 PM »
I'm not, I'm a left-hander.
Well, since the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body and the left side of the brain controls the right side of the body, it goes to reason that left-handers are the only persons in their right mind. :D (FWIW, I'm a righty, and very much so.)

Bad, old joke. And unfounded by peer-reviewed journals.
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #67 on: May 05, 2012, 08:42:05 PM »
"Are you righteous? Kind? Does your confidence lie in this? Are you loved by all? Know that I was, too. Do you imagine your suffering will be any less because you loved goodness? Truth?"
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 08:42:25 PM by Jetavan »
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Offline Eastern Mind

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #68 on: July 25, 2012, 02:14:33 PM »
 :laugh: This entire thread reminds me of the Dr. Suess story about the sneetches.


"Do your sneetches have stars upon thars? Yes or no..."
"ALL THE GODS OF THE HINDUS ARE DEMONS HAHAHAHAHA!!"

Offline JamesR

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #69 on: July 25, 2012, 03:28:13 PM »
I'd say I have all of my other vices under control and gradually improving except for my lust and sexual immorality which only grows worse and worse from the teenage boy hormones.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #70 on: July 25, 2012, 04:52:36 PM »
I'd say I have all of my other vices under control and gradually improving
Really?
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #71 on: July 25, 2012, 05:01:30 PM »
I'd say I have all of my other vices under control and gradually improving
Really?

Confidently. On the road to recovery. I just cannot change the fact that I'm a hormonal teenage boy.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline dzheremi

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #72 on: July 25, 2012, 05:56:30 PM »
God can, James. He gave us as humans those hormones so that we may mature, but without an accompanying growth in our understanding of how we should be as children of God, we become little more than slaves to our impulses.

As to "improvement", this is not something to declare ourselves, is it? After all, Abba Isaiah teaches us that humility is to admit that we have done nothing good before God. Then again, some might be confused for more simple reasons, such as some of what has come through in some of your posting. We might all be similarly convicted, but hopefully we wouldn't therefore state how much better we are than yesterday, knowing ahead of time that in 10 days/months/years, we'll be likely to look back on our "improvement" and think "wow...and I thought I was improved?!" It is a matter of perspective, of course, and that will change as you mature out of being a hormonal teenage boy, God willing. :)

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #73 on: July 25, 2012, 07:23:52 PM »
Lets see how many here are among the righteous. The fact is that we have to be righteous to get into the level of heaven where the saints are. The poll is anonymous so it doesn't involve pride. For the record, I believe that I am only in between the righteous and the unrighteous. I am not intending to judge others...

There are two ways of looking at this.

No one is righteous if one judges himself. As others have pointed out, there is lots of Scripture behind that.

However, if you are not talking about any particular individual but an average person before and after his illumination, it is true that one who has been baptized and Chrismated has the opportunity of becoming righteous sometime after the old man has died and rises up again in Christ in the waters of baptism. Is this what you are driving at?

Offline alanscott

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2012, 09:40:58 AM »
Sincerely...

Am I not best served to see myself as the worst of sinners? If repentance is a process that can lead to my sanctification (Theosis) wouldn't it be best that I simply give praise to God for the refinements He works in me, and focus not on any righteousness that belongs to Him anyway, but on my brokenness that has yet to be healed?

I sometimes find it necessary to stop and recognize the fruits of His work in my heart, yet, feel if I look too long at my progress I will be distracted from the pruning that is left to be done. Am I wrong to be cautious of the evil ones desire that I see myself as righteous so that I become disillusioned and grow no more?

Not only that but if my heart is deceiving and my mind is broken how could I possibly know if I am righteous in His eyes or not? (to this question I would love an answer) 

As I write I truly realize; who am I trying to kid, no, I am far from righteous. I am a repenting sinner. Nothing less and nothing more.

Lord have mercy and purify my heart!   

There are heathens that live with more virtue than I. The devil himself believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Neither of these things truly makes me Christian.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #75 on: July 26, 2012, 09:58:20 AM »
I'd say I have all of my other vices under control and gradually improving
Really?

Confidently. On the road to recovery. I just cannot change the fact that I'm a hormonal teenage boy.
How many vices do you have that you can control all but one?
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Offline soderquj

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #76 on: July 26, 2012, 10:34:56 AM »
Romans 3:
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

O God, cleanse me a sinner and have mercy on me.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #77 on: July 26, 2012, 10:38:35 AM »


I wish that kind of braces and suitable trousers would be still sold somewhere.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 10:39:01 AM by Alpo »

Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #78 on: July 26, 2012, 06:32:43 PM »
Actually, it does involve pride.  One doesn't have to be recognized in order to be prideful.  The moment a Christian believes himself to be righteous is the moment he is not.  

I agree with Schultz.

In order to admit that you are a righteous person it means you are full of pride.  """I'm so good, I'm so great, I'm righteous."""  As sinners, we all fall short of the glory of God.  Our struggles and sins are before us.   Let God decide if we are righteous when our time comes...
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #79 on: July 26, 2012, 06:37:57 PM »
I'd say I have all of my other vices under control and gradually improving except for my lust and sexual immorality which only grows worse and worse from the teenage boy hormones.

I believe that all sins lead pretty much to the same place.   Of course, one can say "hell".... But many sins are the same thing.

Let's take murder for example. 
When you murder, you often lie to the victim.
When you murder, you steal time from the victim's life.
When you murder, you have hatred against a brother or sister.
When you murder, you are not participating in the golden rule.

Lying, adultery, lust, and many sins involve a conglomeration of many sins put together.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #80 on: July 26, 2012, 06:39:06 PM »
I'd say I have all of my other vices under control and gradually improving
Really?

Confidently. On the road to recovery. I just cannot change the fact that I'm a hormonal teenage boy.
How many vices do you have that you can control all but one?

I can control all except for exactly...... 47.  :)
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #81 on: July 26, 2012, 06:44:14 PM »
I'd say I have all of my other vices under control and gradually improving
Really?

Confidently. On the road to recovery. I just cannot change the fact that I'm a hormonal teenage boy.
How many vices do you have that you can control all but one?

I can control all except for exactly...... 47.  :)
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #82 on: July 26, 2012, 06:46:07 PM »
I'd say I have all of my other vices under control and gradually improving
Really?

Confidently. On the road to recovery. I just cannot change the fact that I'm a hormonal teenage boy.
Glad to hear this!
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Offline akimori makoto

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #83 on: July 26, 2012, 09:21:40 PM »
I'd say I have all of my other vices under control and gradually improving
Really?

Confidently. On the road to recovery. I just cannot change the fact that I'm a hormonal teenage boy.

Your recent posts have been stirring my own vices.
The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #84 on: July 26, 2012, 10:46:57 PM »
I'd say I have all of my other vices under control and gradually improving
Really?

Confidently. On the road to recovery. I just cannot change the fact that I'm a hormonal teenage boy.

Your recent posts have been stirring my own vices.

As I said to someone else today. JamesR gets better with each day.
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #85 on: July 26, 2012, 10:51:14 PM »
I'd say I have all of my other vices under control and gradually improving
Really?

Confidently. On the road to recovery. I just cannot change the fact that I'm a hormonal teenage boy.
How many vices do you have that you can control all but one?

4. Laziness, Anger, Gluttony and finally Lust. The former three I am working on and making progress, but the latter one I only grow worse and worse with.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #86 on: July 26, 2012, 11:02:53 PM »
I'd say I have all of my other vices under control and gradually improving
Really?

Confidently. On the road to recovery. I just cannot change the fact that I'm a hormonal teenage boy.
How many vices do you have that you can control all but one?

4. Laziness, Anger, Gluttony and finally Lust. The former three I am working on and making progress, but the latter one I only grow worse and worse with.

As they say in the other cult I am known to also occasion: progress not perfection.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #87 on: July 27, 2012, 02:08:40 AM »
I'd say I have all of my other vices under control and gradually improving
Really?

Confidently. On the road to recovery. I just cannot change the fact that I'm a hormonal teenage boy.
How many vices do you have that you can control all but one?

4. Laziness, Anger, Gluttony and finally Lust. The former three I am working on and making progress, but the latter one I only grow worse and worse with.
How about pride, the most insidious of all vices? Even at 2 1/2 times your age, I still struggle with this vice, and I certainly can't say that I've gained any control over it. If you can say in all honesty that you've gained any mastery over this vice of pride, you're much farther on the path of theosis than I am.
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Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #88 on: July 27, 2012, 03:17:15 AM »
I believe that who is righteous and who is not is something that only God can decide, and only God can see.

I am me.  Whether God thinks I'm righteous or not, I can not say. 

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #89 on: July 27, 2012, 04:15:27 AM »
I'd say I have all of my other vices under control and gradually improving
Really?

Confidently. On the road to recovery. I just cannot change the fact that I'm a hormonal teenage boy.
How many vices do you have that you can control all but one?

4. Laziness, Anger, Gluttony and finally Lust. The former three I am working on and making progress, but the latter one I only grow worse and worse with.
How about pride, the most insidious of all vices? Even at 2 1/2 times your age, I still struggle with this vice, and I certainly can't say that I've gained any control over it. If you can say in all honesty that you've gained any mastery over this vice of pride, you're much farther on the path of theosis than I am.

I might not have totally mastered it, but I have pride under control and I am getting a lot better at controlling it. You know what makes it easy for me? I have nothing to be proud about. In fact, in many cases I find myself ashamed of my life. That's the beauty of misery and coming from a screwed up family; you have no reason to be proud  ;D When I do indulge in pride, it is usually when I brag about my Orthodoxy and diss Protestantism, but, as some of you may have noticed, I have not been doing that as often, thanks to my friend Orthonorm's advice :)
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 04:16:46 AM by JamesR »
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #90 on: July 27, 2012, 10:06:58 AM »
I'd say I have all of my other vices under control and gradually improving
Really?

Confidently. On the road to recovery. I just cannot change the fact that I'm a hormonal teenage boy.
How many vices do you have that you can control all but one?

4. Laziness, Anger, Gluttony and finally Lust. The former three I am working on and making progress, but the latter one I only grow worse and worse with.
How about pride, the most insidious of all vices? Even at 2 1/2 times your age, I still struggle with this vice, and I certainly can't say that I've gained any control over it. If you can say in all honesty that you've gained any mastery over this vice of pride, you're much farther on the path of theosis than I am.

I might not have totally mastered it, but I have pride under control and I am getting a lot better at controlling it. You know what makes it easy for me? I have nothing to be proud about. In fact, in many cases I find myself ashamed of my life. That's the beauty of misery and coming from a screwed up family; you have no reason to be proud  ;D When I do indulge in pride, it is usually when I brag about my Orthodoxy and diss Protestantism, but, as some of you may have noticed, I have not been doing that as often, thanks to my friend Orthonorm's advice :)
Just the statement that you have pride under control and that you're getting a lot better at controlling it can be seen as an act of pride in and of itself. (Do you even know what pride is and of the many diverse ways it can manifest itself?) In short, you're boasting of your spiritual progress.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #91 on: July 27, 2012, 01:35:15 PM »
I'd say I have all of my other vices under control and gradually improving
Really?

Confidently. On the road to recovery. I just cannot change the fact that I'm a hormonal teenage boy.
How many vices do you have that you can control all but one?

4. Laziness, Anger, Gluttony and finally Lust. The former three I am working on and making progress, but the latter one I only grow worse and worse with.
How about pride, the most insidious of all vices? Even at 2 1/2 times your age, I still struggle with this vice, and I certainly can't say that I've gained any control over it. If you can say in all honesty that you've gained any mastery over this vice of pride, you're much farther on the path of theosis than I am.

I might not have totally mastered it, but I have pride under control and I am getting a lot better at controlling it. You know what makes it easy for me? I have nothing to be proud about. In fact, in many cases I find myself ashamed of my life. That's the beauty of misery and coming from a screwed up family; you have no reason to be proud  ;D When I do indulge in pride, it is usually when I brag about my Orthodoxy and diss Protestantism, but, as some of you may have noticed, I have not been doing that as often, thanks to my friend Orthonorm's advice :)
Just the statement that you have pride under control and that you're getting a lot better at controlling it can be seen as an act of pride in and of itself. (Do you even know what pride is and of the many diverse ways it can manifest itself?) In short, you're boasting of your spiritual progress.

Not having pride a paradox, because once you realize you don't have it, you have it.

Sins go very deep, and are very complex, and often very related. 


Anger for example, is often judgmental.  It is often prideful because one believes they are "good enough" to be angry.  It is often manipulative, because it often exists to change the behavior of people.  It is often wrathful, and can include violence or thoughts of violence.  It is deceitful, when people say things they don't mean.  It can be even in circles of theft, if it is to acquire or convince somebody of something they didn't want to sell, do, or whatever.  It can hurt others (do unto others).  It can outcast.  It can scorn.  It can swindle, boast, and blame in manipulation.... Murders are very often committed in anger....  Anger can even run into lust ("well I'll get back at him for his secretary....").   Anger can lead into bearing false witness of events to others.  Anger is vengeful.

Sins are deep.  Many
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Offline HouseOfGod

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #92 on: July 27, 2012, 05:34:24 PM »
The moment a Christian believes himself to be righteous is the moment he is not.  

100% False. You have to believe that you are among the righteous in order to even receive the Mysteries.

Holy things are for the holy. Yet only one is holy, and one is lord: Jesus Christ. We are allowed to commune because of God's grace, because we are in need of healing, not because we are already righteous.
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Offline Azul

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Re: Are you righteous? Yes or no...
« Reply #93 on: July 31, 2012, 02:12:30 PM »
I am righteouss.. I try to be.. I almoust always try to work for the good of the other and cannot constiently suffer unjustice to anyone on my expense.
Every formula of every religion has in this age of reason, to submit to the acid test of reason and universal assent.
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