Author Topic: How many folks on this board are actually, or have considered themselves to be..  (Read 3392 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Punch

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,801
This relies on what is written on their hearts. If they know it not to be a sin . . .

Knowledge sucks.


There is no 'their' in the discussion.  I am only discussing my circumstances.  No one else's. 

Unless that is what your were getting at with "Knowledge sucks".

Quote
Unfortunately, it does not seem to be a good option for finding salvation.
What's the salvific option. geronda? Having sex in a monastery? There used to be a few videos on the internet filmed in orthodox monasteries ...

"I say this as a concession, not as a command.  I wish that all of you were as I am.  But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.  Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do.  But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

That is the Salvific option.

And I assure you, I am NOT saying this flippantly.

If you KNOW it. And I ain't talking about reading it in a tract.

I am certainly damned to hell. But I really doubt the five homosexuals I know best are.

Indeed.  The Scriptures only seem to give two methods involving porking.  Get married and pork or don't pork.  I can't think of anywhere in the Scripture or Tradition, or whatnot where homosexuality is seen as a means for finding salvation.  I cannot think of which sacrament you would use to sanctify it.

Also, keep in mind that I am not judging the homosexual.  I am just stating, sodomy is not going to be a spiritual aide in the same way as receiving Communion, confessing of sins, or being baptized would be.  Apparently the Church considers that marriage between a man and a woman to be a useful aide or it wouldn't be a sacrament.

I have no doubt that some gay people will find salvation.  I believe God is merciful.  I would say there are many good ones out there but that is judging just as much as saying there are bad ones out there.  I have met some that I really liked.  Very few that I haven't.  But all the same, I cannot bring myself to recommend that lifestyle.

I think that this is why it is so important that we define "gay".  In our perverted, porn driven modern America, it seems like the BJ has replaced the goodnight kiss.  If we listen to modern culture, a male and a female cannot be in the same room for more than an hour without screwing.  First, I do not think this universal.  And second, I do not think that it has always been this way.  I can see no reason why two people of the same sex cannot love each other.  In fact, was not the disciple John "the disciple whom Jesus loved"?  Does loving mean that one HAS to have sex?  How many times do we read that Saints lived together as brother and sister?  Two people of the same sex cannot live this way?  I, too, was once rabidly homophobic.  Then I, too, met some gay people.  I am not so willing to judge them now.  Truth be told, I prefer a homo over an straight, alpha male, super jock douchenozzel as a friend any day.  And I am not saying that lightly.  Besides, I think that most homophobes are closeted gays anyway.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline stavros_388

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,322
Where I come from, liking the Smiths/Morrissey means you're a Latina in her teens/early 20s...

Not in Madrid. See if you can find a girl in this audience: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WayoWFKRiZ4    :laugh:

The Smiths are timelessly and universally awesome, anyway.  8)
"This is the cross - to become dead to the whole world, to suffer sorrows, temptations and other passions of Christ; in bearing this cross with complete patience, we imitate Christ's passion and thus glorify our God the Father as His sons in grace and co-heirs of Christ." --St. Symeon the New Theologian

Offline dzheremi

  • No longer posting here.
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,383
Of course not Madrid. Madrid is full of Spanish people; they're all already a bunch of teenage girls.

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,123
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
How did this board come to have so many San Franciscans?
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,123
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
Looking from the outside in, it seems like the better of the two options if your goal is to be a happy, well rounded person.  Unfortunately, it does not seem to be a good option for finding salvation.

I used to be somewhat exceptionally homophobic.  Then I actually started meeting some gay people.  Having met some I can see why they are called "gay".

Are you suggesting that homosexuals are more likely to be happy people than heterosexuals?  Suicide statistics seem to suggest you are wrong.
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,123
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
This relies on what is written on their hearts. If they know it not to be a sin . . .

Knowledge sucks.


There is no 'their' in the discussion.  I am only discussing my circumstances.  No one else's. 

Unless that is what your were getting at with "Knowledge sucks".

Quote
Unfortunately, it does not seem to be a good option for finding salvation.
What's the salvific option. geronda? Having sex in a monastery? There used to be a few videos on the internet filmed in orthodox monasteries ...

"I say this as a concession, not as a command.  I wish that all of you were as I am.  But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.  Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do.  But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

That is the Salvific option.

And I assure you, I am NOT saying this flippantly.

If you KNOW it. And I ain't talking about reading it in a tract.

I am certainly damned to hell. But I really doubt the five homosexuals I know best are.

Indeed.  The Scriptures only seem to give two methods involving porking.  Get married and pork or don't pork.  I can't think of anywhere in the Scripture or Tradition, or whatnot where homosexuality is seen as a means for finding salvation.  I cannot think of which sacrament you would use to sanctify it.

Also, keep in mind that I am not judging the homosexual.  I am just stating, sodomy is not going to be a spiritual aide in the same way as receiving Communion, confessing of sins, or being baptized would be.  Apparently the Church considers that marriage between a man and a woman to be a useful aide or it wouldn't be a sacrament.

I have no doubt that some gay people will find salvation.  I believe God is merciful.  I would say there are many good ones out there but that is judging just as much as saying there are bad ones out there.  I have met some that I really liked.  Very few that I haven't.  But all the same, I cannot bring myself to recommend that lifestyle.

I think that this is why it is so important that we define "gay".  In our perverted, porn driven modern America, it seems like the BJ has replaced the goodnight kiss.  If we listen to modern culture, a male and a female cannot be in the same room for more than an hour without screwing.  First, I do not think this universal.  And second, I do not think that it has always been this way.  I can see no reason why two people of the same sex cannot love each other.  In fact, was not the disciple John "the disciple whom Jesus loved"?  Does loving mean that one HAS to have sex?  How many times do we read that Saints lived together as brother and sister?  Two people of the same sex cannot live this way?  I, too, was once rabidly homophobic.  Then I, too, met some gay people.  I am not so willing to judge them now.  Truth be told, I prefer a homo over an straight, alpha male, super jock douchenozzel as a friend any day.  And I am not saying that lightly.  Besides, I think that most homophobes are closeted gays anyway.

Judging from a multitude of Republican members of Congress, I'm going to agree with you.
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
I do not consider myself to be 100% straight. I have never engaged in the behavior, though.


Offline Aaron M

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
I could call myself "gay", although for feelings for what the word used to mean and what it "should" still in my mind - I now prefer again the old clinical word "homosexual".  (That, and I'm most often not a happy person.)

I hated the attraction for all of my teenage years and early 20s, then embraced it for a time enough to "come out" and have a relationship - sought to join a liberal affirming church, started to feel disappointment that all this did not truly make me a happy person, spiritually attracted to Orthodoxy but not having the mind to be actually convinced of all its ecclesiastical claims, anyway for the past three years repressed again while deferring to what seems to be the broad scope of historical Christian teaching on sex.  (Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant before the 1930s...)

I know "of" gay/homosexual (men) at my workplace and a few other places, but as I'm overall an extreme loner and not outgoing, I don't have any kind of relationship or acquaintance with any other.  Maybe a lesbian sister in the hometown I rarely visit; I said "maybe" going by what she said some years ago, but then it was new and I don't know if she stuck to it.

I often wish that "nurture" were more of a solid argument, but as much as I can be "convinced" without reading for or against, believe it to be definitely not.

Offline vamrat

  • Vamratoraptor
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,764
  • Faith: Serbian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of New Gracanica
Quote
But all the same, I cannot bring myself to recommend that lifestyle.
Do people routinely approach you asking life-style recommendations?

Everyday.  Some days I have a dozen or so gays asking me how they should live.  I am so tired of all these homosexuals asking for advice that I don't even know what to do.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline akimori makoto

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,126
  • No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...
Quote
But all the same, I cannot bring myself to recommend that lifestyle.
Do people routinely approach you asking life-style recommendations?

Everyday.  Some days I have a dozen or so gays asking me how they should live.  I am so tired of all these homosexuals asking for advice that I don't even know what to do.

When homosexual males approach me, it is not normally to ask for life advice.
The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.

Offline vamrat

  • Vamratoraptor
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,764
  • Faith: Serbian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of New Gracanica
Quote
But all the same, I cannot bring myself to recommend that lifestyle.
Do people routinely approach you asking life-style recommendations?

Everyday.  Some days I have a dozen or so gays asking me how they should live.  I am so tired of all these homosexuals asking for advice that I don't even know what to do.

When homosexual males approach me, it is not normally to ask for life advice.

 :D

Better them than furries...
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 02:42:39 AM by vamrat »
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,300
Of course not Madrid. Madrid is full of Spanish people; they're all already a bunch of teenage girls.

Thank you.
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline Sluggo1971

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
I have two homosexual family members, my brother and my only uncle.  The finer details of their private lives (or fine for that matter) are never really the subject of discussion at Thanksgiving and Christmas when we see each other, they are simply my brother and my uncle.  I would add that neither of them seem to act as if their personal sexual behavior or orientation is an identifier, and both seem to find the identity politics obnoxious.

Despite having been that close to the issue, there was a time in my life when I found homosexuality and the typically associated behaviors to be the most repugnant things in the universe.  I gained a different perspective after being a criminal investigator for several years and realized just how bizarre and repugnant the sexual activities of "straight" people can be as well.  I became convinced that "normal" was something that only exists in fiction, and my final conclusion is that many people of all stripes make sex "sinful" by placing undue importance on it in their lives. 


Offline Marc1152

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 14,559
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
I'm a heterosexual trapped in the body of a heterosexual.
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline vamrat

  • Vamratoraptor
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,764
  • Faith: Serbian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of New Gracanica
I'm a heterosexual trapped in the body of a heterosexual.

Trapped would usually imply that you are not happy with the situation...   ;)
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,152
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
  • Faith: Western Rite Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: AOCNA - Diocese of Charleston and beyond
Im not gay, nor do I frankly give half a sausage about them either way.

However, what annoys me is the fake lisp and hyper-flamboyant BS act some put on as real. Leave the queer eye nonsense at home.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline vamrat

  • Vamratoraptor
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,764
  • Faith: Serbian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of New Gracanica
Im not gay, nor do I frankly give half a sausage about them either way.

However, what annoys me is the fake lisp and hyper-flamboyant BS act some put on as real. Leave the queer eye nonsense at home.

PP

Ugh.  I really want to play off your "half-sausage" comment...but I don't want to get a green dot.   :'(
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,152
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
  • Faith: Western Rite Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: AOCNA - Diocese of Charleston and beyond
Im not gay, nor do I frankly give half a sausage about them either way.

However, what annoys me is the fake lisp and hyper-flamboyant BS act some put on as real. Leave the queer eye nonsense at home.

PP

Ugh.  I really want to play off your "half-sausage" comment...but I don't want to get a green dot.   :'(
Sorry buddy, I saw the topic and could not help myself :)

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Orthodox11

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,999
I have had gay housemates, gay co-workers, gay classmates, as well as gay friends and have never had any problem with them as individuals on account of their sexual orientation. It's none of my business, nor am I particularly interested. The fact that I believe sexual relationships should be reserved for a specific context does not mean I think badly about those who disagree with the Christian position, or who struggle with a particular passion. A traditional attitude to sex should not exclude love and pastoral sensitivity.

Offline Schultz

  • Christian. Guitarist. Scooterist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,542
  • Scion of the McKeesport Becks.
I'm not a homosexual, but I play a thinly veiled one on my podcast.
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline augustin717

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,754
Im not gay, nor do I frankly give half a sausage about them either way.

However, what annoys me is the fake lisp and hyper-flamboyant BS act some put on as real. Leave the queer eye nonsense at home.

PP
Someone I highly respect said that the only interesting conservatives are those that are gay or something to that effect.

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,152
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
  • Faith: Western Rite Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: AOCNA - Diocese of Charleston and beyond
Im not gay, nor do I frankly give half a sausage about them either way.

However, what annoys me is the fake lisp and hyper-flamboyant BS act some put on as real. Leave the queer eye nonsense at home.

PP
Someone I highly respect said that the only interesting conservatives are those that are gay or something to that effect.
Judging from your posts in the Politics section, I have no problem being uninteresting to folks you respect.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Punch

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,801
Fear not! You cannot be fully Orthodox unless you have had the green dot. 

Im not gay, nor do I frankly give half a sausage about them either way.

However, what annoys me is the fake lisp and hyper-flamboyant BS act some put on as real. Leave the queer eye nonsense at home.

PP

Ugh.  I really want to play off your "half-sausage" comment...but I don't want to get a green dot.   :'(
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,152
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
  • Faith: Western Rite Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: AOCNA - Diocese of Charleston and beyond
Quote
Fear not! You cannot be fully Orthodox unless you have had the green dot
*sigh* more stipulations......

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Tikhon29605

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 669
My sexual orientation is gay and always has been as long as I can remember. I can't remember a point in my life when I did not feel this way.  However, I am not sexually active now and haven't been for almost 10 years now. I never had any spiritual peace when I was active sexually.  I did not have much success with gay relationships either. For a while I was promiscuous and found that completely unfulfilling.  It made me feel cheap and used. Then I began a relationship with a nice guy and we stayed together for about 2 years.  However, during that whole time the amount of drama I had to endure was incredible. It simply drained me. Drama and petty jealousy about everything, accusations about being unfaithful (even though I never cheated on him) seemed to occur almost daily.  We did have periods where were got along well, but our relationship was an emotional roller coaster. I realize not all gay relationships are like that, but mine was.  I was Orthodox when this occurred and voluntarily abstained from the Eucharist for the entire period that I was in this gay relationship.  I knew my priest would not approve of it.  I still did attend Divine Liturgy on occassion and told no one at church about it, except my priest (and I did that privately.)  I did not expect or demand that my priest 'bless' my gay relationship.  I received and respectfully listened to his advice and counsel.  I told him that I was not ready to make decision about this at present.  I needed time and I took two years.  At the end of the two years, I found I really missed Church and receivign the Eucharist.  My partner did not share my Orthodox faith at all.  In fact, he had great disdain for it. Nearly all of the gay people I knew (with a few expections) were appalled and shocked at my respect for the Orthodox Church and for Christianity in general. They couldn't understand my attraction to the Church, to its feasts and fast, its music, its icons and its dogmatic teachings.  Many of them, including my partner, told me I should just dump the Church entirely and either become an atheist, an agnostic, a Unitarian or an Episcopalian.  Overtime I simply grew less and less satisfied with my gay relationship. So my partner and I amicably decided to end it.  He started dating again and when he found someone, he moved out.  That was almost 10 years ago and I have not seen him since.  I have been celibate since then and I am content with it.  At least my conscience is at peace now and I don't feel torn between living in a gay relationship and living an Orthodox life.  I think my life has become more peaceful, calmer and less materialistic now. I have not "magically changed" my sexual orientation.  I'm still gay. I am still attracted to men. But now that I have actually experienced a gay relationship, I don't miss all the drama and tension that accompanies it.   Part of me, deep down inside, always felt that I should resist those gay urges and not act on them, even when I was in a gay relationship. I never was 100% comfortable with it.

I am not deliriously happy now, but I am content and reasonably happy.  And that's enough.


Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,152
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
  • Faith: Western Rite Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: AOCNA - Diocese of Charleston and beyond
My sexual orientation is gay and always has been as long as I can remember. I can't remember a point in my life when I did not feel this way.  However, I am not sexually active now and haven't been for almost 10 years now. I never had any spiritual peace when I was active sexually.  I did not have much success with gay relationships either. For a while I was promiscuous and found that completely unfulfilling.  It made me feel cheap and used. Then I began a relationship with a nice guy and we stayed together for about 2 years.  However, during that whole time the amount of drama I had to endure was incredible. It simply drained me. Drama and petty jealousy about everything, accusations about being unfaithful (even though I never cheated on him) seemed to occur almost daily.  We did have periods where were got along well, but our relationship was an emotional roller coaster. I realize not all gay relationships are like that, but mine was.  I was Orthodox when this occurred and voluntarily abstained from the Eucharist for the entire period that I was in this gay relationship.  I knew my priest would not approve of it.  I still did attend Divine Liturgy on occassion and told no one at church about it, except my priest (and I did that privately.)  I did not expect or demand that my priest 'bless' my gay relationship.  I received and respectfully listened to his advice and counsel.  I told him that I was not ready to make decision about this at present.  I needed time and I took two years.  At the end of the two years, I found I really missed Church and receivign the Eucharist.  My partner did not share my Orthodox faith at all.  In fact, he had great disdain for it. Nearly all of the gay people I knew (with a few expections) were appalled and shocked at my respect for the Orthodox Church and for Christianity in general. They couldn't understand my attraction to the Church, to its feasts and fast, its music, its icons and its dogmatic teachings.  Many of them, including my partner, told me I should just dump the Church entirely and either become an atheist, an agnostic, a Unitarian or an Episcopalian.  Overtime I simply grew less and less satisfied with my gay relationship. So my partner and I amicably decided to end it.  He started dating again and when he found someone, he moved out.  That was almost 10 years ago and I have not seen him since.  I have been celibate since then and I am content with it.  At least my conscience is at peace now and I don't feel torn between living in a gay relationship and living an Orthodox life.  I think my life has become more peaceful, calmer and less materialistic now. I have not "magically changed" my sexual orientation.  I'm still gay. I am still attracted to men. But now that I have actually experienced a gay relationship, I don't miss all the drama and tension that accompanies it.   Part of me, deep down inside, always felt that I should resist those gay urges and not act on them, even when I was in a gay relationship. I never was 100% comfortable with it.

I am not deliriously happy now, but I am content and reasonably happy.  And that's enough.


Wow, thank you for that. It was very insightful. It takes a lot of willpower to do what you did. God bless you.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,292
  • An Ideal to Strive Towards
I am not homophobic by any means. I am very close to many gay people, and have had many gay friends through the years (Albuquerque being considered one of the more "gay-friendly" towns in the country). That being said here are my observations about the gay (male) community:

1. Very clean and well dressed.
2. Very career driven
3. Lots and lots of low self-esteem
4. pronographic community (everything is sexualized)
5. shallow approach to life
6. Very very very unhappy/lonely people, that try to mask this unhappiness with lots of booze and partying.
7. Lots of drug use and alcoholism.
8. Radically post-modern view of the world
And for the record, this is not me being "homophobic". Gay friends have actually verbally confirmed my observations.
My posts no longer forum here.

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,152
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
  • Faith: Western Rite Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: AOCNA - Diocese of Charleston and beyond
I am not homophobic by any means. I am very close to many gay people, and have had many gay friends through the years (Albuquerque being considered one of the more "gay-friendly" towns in the country). That being said here are my observations about the gay (male) community:

1. Very clean and well dressed.
2. Very career driven
3. Lots and lots of low self-esteem
4. pronographic community (everything is sexualized)
5. shallow approach to life
6. Very very very unhappy/lonely people, that try to mask this unhappiness with lots of booze and partying.
7. Lots of drug use and alcoholism.
8. Radically post-modern view of the world
And for the record, this is not me being "homophobic". Gay friends have actually verbally confirmed my observations.
I know quite a few gay folks that more than 1 of your observations could be attached to easily.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline augustin717

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,754
I am not homophobic by any means. I am very close to many gay people, and have had many gay friends through the years (Albuquerque being considered one of the more "gay-friendly" towns in the country). That being said here are my observations about the gay (male) community:

1. Very clean and well dressed.
2. Very career driven
3. Lots and lots of low self-esteem
4. pronographic community (everything is sexualized)
5. shallow approach to life
6. Very very very unhappy/lonely people, that try to mask this unhappiness with lots of booze and partying.
7. Lots of drug use and alcoholism.
8. Radically post-modern view of the world
And for the record, this is not me being "homophobic". Gay friends have actually verbally confirmed my observations.
I know quite a few gay folks that more than 1 of your observations could be attached to easily.

PP
And quite a few straights as well. So it's kinda meaningless. It says less about them yet it says way more about the prejudices of the 'observer" or whatever.

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,292
  • An Ideal to Strive Towards
I am not homophobic by any means. I am very close to many gay people, and have had many gay friends through the years (Albuquerque being considered one of the more "gay-friendly" towns in the country). That being said here are my observations about the gay (male) community:

1. Very clean and well dressed.
2. Very career driven
3. Lots and lots of low self-esteem
4. pronographic community (everything is sexualized)
5. shallow approach to life
6. Very very very unhappy/lonely people, that try to mask this unhappiness with lots of booze and partying.
7. Lots of drug use and alcoholism.
8. Radically post-modern view of the world
And for the record, this is not me being "homophobic". Gay friends have actually verbally confirmed my observations.
I know quite a few gay folks that more than 1 of your observations could be attached to easily.

PP
And quite a few straights as well. So it's kinda meaningless. It says less about them yet it says way more about the prejudices of the 'observer" or whatever.
Ha! If you only knew me. Yes, there are many straight people who live this way. But I would say that the ratio of gay people who live this way is higher than the ratio of straights.
My posts no longer forum here.

Offline augustin717

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,754
let's grant you that:it seems to me that you think that "virtuous behaviour" is exclusively nourished by the sacraments/reading the bible / Holy Spirit etc so that straight people would have more stable lives on average is just another proof of how righteous being straight is to begin with. you seem blind to the whole social, political and economic set-up that already makes it easier for a heterosexual to live a more stable life, sacraments or not.

Offline Schultz

  • Christian. Guitarist. Scooterist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,542
  • Scion of the McKeesport Becks.
I am not homophobic by any means. I am very close to many gay people, and have had many gay friends through the years (Albuquerque being considered one of the more "gay-friendly" towns in the country). That being said here are my observations about the gay (male) community:

1. Very clean and well dressed.
2. Very career driven
3. Lots and lots of low self-esteem
4. pronographic community (everything is sexualized)
5. shallow approach to life
6. Very very very unhappy/lonely people, that try to mask this unhappiness with lots of booze and partying.
7. Lots of drug use and alcoholism.
8. Radically post-modern view of the world
And for the record, this is not me being "homophobic". Gay friends have actually verbally confirmed my observations.
I know quite a few gay folks that more than 1 of your observations could be attached to easily.

PP
And quite a few straights as well. So it's kinda meaningless. It says less about them yet it says way more about the prejudices of the 'observer" or whatever.
Ha! If you only knew me. Yes, there are many straight people who live this way. But I would say that the ratio of gay people who live this way is higher than the ratio of straights.


Many of these observations (particularly 3, 6, and7) could also be directly caused by being told from day one that you're a perverse POS who doesn't deserve to live on God's green earth simply because you're attracted to the same sex (b/c to many, having those feelings and actively engaging in them are one in the same).  When you're constantly told you're nothing, you tend to believe it.
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,292
  • An Ideal to Strive Towards
I am not homophobic by any means. I am very close to many gay people, and have had many gay friends through the years (Albuquerque being considered one of the more "gay-friendly" towns in the country). That being said here are my observations about the gay (male) community:

1. Very clean and well dressed.
2. Very career driven
3. Lots and lots of low self-esteem
4. pronographic community (everything is sexualized)
5. shallow approach to life
6. Very very very unhappy/lonely people, that try to mask this unhappiness with lots of booze and partying.
7. Lots of drug use and alcoholism.
8. Radically post-modern view of the world
And for the record, this is not me being "homophobic". Gay friends have actually verbally confirmed my observations.
I know quite a few gay folks that more than 1 of your observations could be attached to easily.

PP
And quite a few straights as well. So it's kinda meaningless. It says less about them yet it says way more about the prejudices of the 'observer" or whatever.
Ha! If you only knew me. Yes, there are many straight people who live this way. But I would say that the ratio of gay people who live this way is higher than the ratio of straights.


Many of these observations (particularly 3, 6, and7) could also be directly caused by being told from day one that you're a perverse POS who doesn't deserve to live on God's green earth simply because you're attracted to the same sex (b/c to many, having those feelings and actively engaging in them are one in the same).  When you're constantly told you're nothing, you tend to believe it.
That could very much be the case. If some one is constantly being picked on very being a "sissy" one will look for something to validate one's own worth.
My posts no longer forum here.

Offline Marc1152

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 14,559
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
I am not homophobic by any means. I am very close to many gay people, and have had many gay friends through the years (Albuquerque being considered one of the more "gay-friendly" towns in the country). That being said here are my observations about the gay (male) community:

1. Very clean and well dressed.
2. Very career driven
3. Lots and lots of low self-esteem
4. pronographic community (everything is sexualized)
5. shallow approach to life
6. Very very very unhappy/lonely people, that try to mask this unhappiness with lots of booze and partying.
7. Lots of drug use and alcoholism.
8. Radically post-modern view of the world
And for the record, this is not me being "homophobic". Gay friends have actually verbally confirmed my observations.

Except for number 7 this fits all my Jewish Friends and Family.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJd3MgIcbnA
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline dzheremi

  • No longer posting here.
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,383
I think it's unfair to generalize across such a diverse group of people based on one common variable. Correlation does not necessarily imply causation, remember? I am not native to Albuquerque (nor do I know any openly gay people here), but back home in California I have several gay friends whom I am quite close to, and none of them seems more obviously damaged in the ways enumerated by Papist than any of my straight friends might be. I will say that there are certain aspects of gay culture or whatever you'd call it that definitely fit with that analysis, but those aspects are not part and parcel of what it means to be gay in toto, as far as I can tell from my gay friends' own observations (so, with basically the same strength of evidence as Papist has).

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,292
  • An Ideal to Strive Towards
I think it's unfair to generalize across such a diverse group of people based on one common variable. Correlation does not necessarily imply causation, remember? I am not native to Albuquerque (nor do I know any openly gay people here), but back home in California I have several gay friends whom I am quite close to, and none of them seems more obviously damaged in the ways enumerated by Papist than any of my straight friends might be. I will say that there are certain aspects of gay culture or whatever you'd call it that definitely fit with that analysis, but those aspects are not part and parcel of what it means to be gay in toto, as far as I can tell from my gay friends' own observations (so, with basically the same strength of evidence as Papist has).
I'm not saying that my observations cut accross all lines. What I am saying is that of the many gay people I have known, many exhibit most or all of the characteristics that I note above.
However, there is one gay friend that I can think of that seems happy and well adjusted.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 03:03:13 PM by Papist »
My posts no longer forum here.

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,123
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
I am not homophobic by any means. I am very close to many gay people, and have had many gay friends through the years (Albuquerque being considered one of the more "gay-friendly" towns in the country). That being said here are my observations about the gay (male) community:

1. Very clean and well dressed.
2. Very career driven
3. Lots and lots of low self-esteem
4. pronographic community (everything is sexualized)
5. shallow approach to life
6. Very very very unhappy/lonely people, that try to mask this unhappiness with lots of booze and partying.
7. Lots of drug use and alcoholism.
8. Radically post-modern view of the world
And for the record, this is not me being "homophobic". Gay friends have actually verbally confirmed my observations.

Whenever you must start off a comment with "I am not a bigot," you should already know you have a problem.
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

  • "SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,972
  • "Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1456515775
I am not homophobic by any means. I am very close to many gay people, and have had many gay friends through the years (Albuquerque being considered one of the more "gay-friendly" towns in the country). That being said here are my observations about the gay (male) community:

1. Very clean and well dressed.
2. Very career driven
3. Lots and lots of low self-esteem
4. pronographic community (everything is sexualized)
5. shallow approach to life
6. Very very very unhappy/lonely people, that try to mask this unhappiness with lots of booze and partying.
7. Lots of drug use and alcoholism.
8. Radically post-modern view of the world
And for the record, this is not me being "homophobic". Gay friends have actually verbally confirmed my observations.

Whenever you must start off a comment with "I am not a bigot," you should already know you have a problem.

Unfair propaganda.



Selam
""Love is a dangerous thing. It will crush you if you trust it. But without it you can never be whole. Love crucifies, but love saves. We will either be saved together with love, or damned alone without it."    Selam, +GMK+

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,267
  • Paint It Red
Im not gay, nor do I frankly give half a sausage about them either way.

However, what annoys me is the fake lisp and hyper-flamboyant BS act some put on as real. Leave the queer eye nonsense at home.

PP

ROFL, agreed.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline witega

  • Is it enough now, to tell you you matter?
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,614
Im not gay, nor do I frankly give half a sausage about them either way.

However, what annoys me is the fake lisp and hyper-flamboyant BS act some put on as real. Leave the queer eye nonsense at home.

PP


I have a gay friend, veteran of Iraq, who once spent an entire evening ranting about this--something along the lines "if you weren't flaming before you came out of the closet, then why are you putting on the act now."
Ariel Starling - New album

For it were better to suffer everything, rather than divide the Church of God. Even martyrdom for the sake of preventing division would not be less glorious than for refusing to worship idols. - St. Dionysius the Great

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,152
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • Holy Trinity Orthodox Church
  • Faith: Western Rite Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: AOCNA - Diocese of Charleston and beyond
Im not gay, nor do I frankly give half a sausage about them either way.

However, what annoys me is the fake lisp and hyper-flamboyant BS act some put on as real. Leave the queer eye nonsense at home.

PP


I have a gay friend, veteran of Iraq, who once spent an entire evening ranting about this--something along the lines "if you weren't flaming before you came out of the closet, then why are you putting on the act now."
Yeah, I really dont care if you're gay, but please...do your cause some justice and dont be like:





PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,292
  • An Ideal to Strive Towards
I am not homophobic by any means. I am very close to many gay people, and have had many gay friends through the years (Albuquerque being considered one of the more "gay-friendly" towns in the country). That being said here are my observations about the gay (male) community:

1. Very clean and well dressed.
2. Very career driven
3. Lots and lots of low self-esteem
4. pronographic community (everything is sexualized)
5. shallow approach to life
6. Very very very unhappy/lonely people, that try to mask this unhappiness with lots of booze and partying.
7. Lots of drug use and alcoholism.
8. Radically post-modern view of the world
And for the record, this is not me being "homophobic". Gay friends have actually verbally confirmed my observations.

Whenever you must start off a comment with "I am not a bigot," you should already know you have a problem.
Ha!
My posts no longer forum here.

Offline Iconodule

  • Uranopolitan
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,895
  • "My god is greater."
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
How many folks on this board are actually, or have considered themselves to be gay or lesban? Or have close freinds or family members who are? It seems that plenty of folks here like to preach about what gay or lesbian people should do, what we feel, ow we were brought up etc etc... i wonder if anyone here9besides myself) has any actual RT experience with the subject, aside from reading about it or hearing sermons on the topic.

A close family member. Not that it really proves anything either way.

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 39,286
Quote
funny you should say that: my nickname groving up was "Butch."



Like looking into a mirror, no?


I remember the movie, the scene where Sundance undresses Katherine Ross, and wondering "what's he doing?" (I was 4, and didn't know how girls were different (that wouldn't happen until I was 6).  Despite that, I had a girl friend at the time, and was attracted to girls).
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth