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Author Topic: our country is going off the deep end...  (Read 1350 times) Average Rating: 0
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Jason.Wike
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« on: May 03, 2012, 06:08:08 PM »

Ok, I don't pay much attention to the media, but a couple things this week have really gotten my attention...

First, Dan Savage was supposed to give a talk about bullying to high school journalism students. Instead, he talked about what his boyfriend looks like in a speedo and other sexual stuff (that stuff alone should have PERMANENTLY discredited him from anything professional, there should be a media fire storm, no man should be talking to high school students about this stuff). Then he said the bible was BS and called the kids that walked out "Pansy asses." Most of the kids cheered him on.

Then some woman on Dr. Phil wants to kill her disabled adult children... 95% of the audience says she should be able to.


Eh, there was something else I've forgotten by now but just these two are enough. Americans are loosing anything remotely like morality. Killing ("euthanizing" they say, but its killing) disabled people comes right out of the Nazi books. And even the Romans didn't let vile completely unqualified people like Savage teach their children, but we let him inform our children's world view? He teaches them to be promiscuous, and sex ed still teaches that oral sex is "safer" and "prevents AIDs" even though it has been realized that the HPV that causes genital warts and cancer now also causes throat cancer, and all STDS are becoming resistant to our entire range of drugs.  Undecided
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2012, 06:10:38 PM »

Then some woman on Dr. Phil wants to kill her disabled adult children... 95% of the audience says she should be able to.

Eh, there was something else I've forgotten by now but just these two are enough. Americans are loosing anything remotely like morality. Killing ("euthanizing" they say, but its killing) disabled people comes right out of the Nazi books.

Depends on the nature and extent of the disability...
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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2012, 08:02:46 PM »

Hitler, gays, STDs, Romans.

You are playing all your cards at once.
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2012, 08:11:39 PM »

Hitler, gays, STDs, Romans.

You are playing all your cards at once.
And Abortion with the Royal Flush.
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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2012, 08:17:50 PM »

Hitler, gays, STDs, Romans.

You are playing all your cards at once.

Yeah, doesn't it usually take about 11 pages for a thread to veer off into those topics?
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« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2012, 08:26:02 PM »

I didn't say anything about gays or Hitler.
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2012, 08:29:16 PM »

I didn't say anything about gays or Hitler.

Do you want to stand on that statement?
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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2012, 08:32:41 PM »

I didn't say anything about gays or Hitler.

Do you want to stand on that statement?

I mentioned Dan Savage and the stuff he said, I said nothing about "gays" end of story.
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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2012, 08:34:13 PM »

Uh, Dan Savage is gay.
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« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2012, 08:36:56 PM »

Uh, Dan Savage is gay.

Which wasn't the subject of anything in my post. I didn't say "Oh, the gay!" My problem is with the things he has has said that are reprehensible regardless of whether he's gay, straight or asexual. I guess I shouldn't have expected anything serious from this board since people can't help but diverting subjects away and acting dumb.
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« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2012, 08:38:28 PM »

Sheez, calm down. Sad It's just a difference of opinion. You'll be fine tomorrow.
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« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2012, 08:47:14 PM »

Uh, Dan Savage is gay.

Which wasn't the subject of anything in my post. I didn't say "Oh, the gay!" My problem is with the things he has has said that are reprehensible regardless of whether he's gay, straight or asexual. I guess I shouldn't have expected anything serious from this board since people can't help but diverting subjects away and acting dumb.

You think you have it bad.  Talk to amartin.
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« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2012, 09:09:19 PM »

This thread make me look for that video. i actually think he made some reasonable points there, the language notwithstanding
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« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2012, 09:10:02 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



stay blessed,
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« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2012, 09:19:18 PM »

I didn't say anything about gays or Hitler.

Don't worry, this is typical.  You ask one thing and somebody will throw out a wildcard hijacking your thread.  

Yes I agree based on what was said on the OP, the country is going off the deep end.  It's interesting how these "sins" are pushed through the media.   It's scary to me how many seem to not value life, in all forms.
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« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2012, 09:22:45 PM »

I didn't say anything about gays or Hitler.

Do you want to stand on that statement?

Yes, I think that he stands on that statement.  He mentioned sexual talk that was off topic by speaker but did not bring up homosexuality. 
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« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2012, 09:25:19 PM »

Uh, Dan Savage is gay.

What does that have to do with it?   If I talk about the guy that owns the nearest casino bragging about how they sell more cigarettes than the gas stations across the street and all of a sudden I am talking about native americans?     
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« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2012, 09:26:52 PM »

What?
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« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2012, 09:27:59 PM »

First, Dan Savage was supposed to give a talk about bullying to high school journalism students. Instead, he talked about what his boyfriend looks like in a speedo and other sexual stuff

You people are counting faeries on the head of a pin (no I didn't go for it).
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« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2012, 09:28:37 PM »

Jason is right on par.  
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« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2012, 09:29:42 PM »

Jason is right on par.  

Thank you, but I am actually going to eagle this one.
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« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2012, 09:35:53 PM »

Hey folks serious question here, but sadly I can't say if it's a smart one.

I think this is relevant due to the subject header but here goes:

Is it at all bad to tune the country, America, etc whatever is going on in the world out? Like pay no mind to it? Or should I do the respectable thing as a citizen and get embroiled in politics?
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« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2012, 09:38:32 PM »

Hey folks serious question here, but sadly I can't say if it's a smart one.

I think this is relevant due to the subject header but here goes:

Is it at all bad to tune the country, America, etc whatever is going on in the world out? Like pay no mind to it? Or should I do the respectable thing as a citizen and get embroiled in politics?

One of the best things I ever did was to stop paying attention to the news. Media in general.

If I ain't around here, I have no idea what is going on. And there is enough going on in my life I can actually do something about without getting lost in the constant stream of negative stories where I have no control over.
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« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2012, 10:09:28 PM »

Hey folks serious question here, but sadly I can't say if it's a smart one.

I think this is relevant due to the subject header but here goes:

Is it at all bad to tune the country, America, etc whatever is going on in the world out? Like pay no mind to it? Or should I do the respectable thing as a citizen and get embroiled in politics?

IMO, politics are a waste of time. The only reason I've ever told someone I don't ever want to see or hear from them again is because they can't shut up about their politics or stop trying to make me join their side.
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« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2012, 10:13:08 PM »

Hey folks serious question here, but sadly I can't say if it's a smart one.

I think this is relevant due to the subject header but here goes:

Is it at all bad to tune the country, America, etc whatever is going on in the world out? Like pay no mind to it? Or should I do the respectable thing as a citizen and get embroiled in politics?

One of the best things I ever did was to stop paying attention to the news. Media in general.

If I ain't around here, I have no idea what is going on. And there is enough going on in my life I can actually do something about without getting lost in the constant stream of negative stories where I have no control over.

You can vote, you can boycott and you can choose what media outlet to support with your time and money
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« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2012, 10:52:54 PM »

Hey folks serious question here, but sadly I can't say if it's a smart one.

I think this is relevant due to the subject header but here goes:

Is it at all bad to tune the country, America, etc whatever is going on in the world out? Like pay no mind to it? Or should I do the respectable thing as a citizen and get embroiled in politics?

One of the best things I ever did was to stop paying attention to the news. Media in general.

If I ain't around here, I have no idea what is going on. And there is enough going on in my life I can actually do something about without getting lost in the constant stream of negative stories where I have no control over.
Ok I'm glad someone else is in the same frame of mind. Worse even are the news articles that are posted and allows for comments. There's not enough landfills in all the world to contain the many opinions made.

I also like what's in bold.
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« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2012, 10:58:34 PM »

Hey folks serious question here, but sadly I can't say if it's a smart one.

I think this is relevant due to the subject header but here goes:

Is it at all bad to tune the country, America, etc whatever is going on in the world out? Like pay no mind to it? Or should I do the respectable thing as a citizen and get embroiled in politics?

One of the best things I ever did was to stop paying attention to the news. Media in general.

If I ain't around here, I have no idea what is going on. And there is enough going on in my life I can actually do something about without getting lost in the constant stream of negative stories where I have no control over.

You can vote, you can boycott and you can choose what media outlet to support with your time and money

And one person is basically a drop in the bucket for all that.
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« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2012, 11:03:00 PM »

I heard some clips of the speech.  certainly disturbing and inappropriate for a school.

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« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2012, 03:32:14 AM »

I think Savage is really an anti-gay activist who is pretending to be gay, so as to rile up decent persons.
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« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2012, 05:03:47 AM »

I didn't say anything about gays or Hitler.

Do you want to stand on that statement?

Yes, I think that he stands on that statement.  He mentioned sexual talk that was off topic by speaker but did not bring up homosexuality. 

So if it was a straight guy talking about his girlfriend you think he still would have been outraged? Really? Seriously?  Cool
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« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2012, 05:51:50 AM »

This country went off the deep in from day one. Slavery, genocide, abortion, and all the subsequent evils, perversions, and human rights violations that have ensued. While I share the laments of the OP, I always find it amazing that people are surprised by such BS and wonder why these things are happening. What could be more shocking and horrific than the legal slaughter of innocent babies in the womb? If we aren't outraged by that, then why should the rest of it bother us?

(OK folks, now you can go ahead and mock me for once again bringing up abortion. I'm used to it.)


Selam
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« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2012, 06:31:45 AM »

This country went off the deep in from day one. Slavery, genocide, abortion, and all the subsequent evils, perversions, and human rights violations that have ensued. While I share the laments of the OP, I always find it amazing that people are surprised by such BS and wonder why these things are happening. What could be more shocking and horrific than the legal slaughter of innocent babies in the womb? If we aren't outraged by that, then why should the rest of it bother us?

(OK folks, now you can go ahead and mock me for once again bringing up abortion. I'm used to it.)


Selam
I think we have come a long way since then, personally. Slavery has been abolished, and while racism still exists, we have made pretty big strides as a country for equality. Genocide is a thing in the past for Americans after what we had done to the Natives.

Our traditional foundations are shifting, but my question is will we end up becoming irreligious like Europe? We have moved away from a very conservative Protestant Christianity to something much more liberal to keep attracting peoplemoney.
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« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2012, 06:45:02 AM »

What could be more shocking and horrific than the legal slaughter of innocent babies in the womb?

You don't believe that.
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« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2012, 07:25:48 AM »

Lemme take back the racism thing I bit. I think young black men in this country are, for a less offensive word, outta luck in this society. Eventhough we may have made alot of progress on racism, we still are in a racist society. It's just the legacy of slavery.
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« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2012, 08:39:57 AM »

This country went off the deep in from day one. Slavery, genocide, abortion, and all the subsequent evils, perversions, and human rights violations that have ensued. While I share the laments of the OP, I always find it amazing that people are surprised by such BS and wonder why these things are happening. What could be more shocking and horrific than the legal slaughter of innocent babies in the womb? If we aren't outraged by that, then why should the rest of it bother us?

(OK folks, now you can go ahead and mock me for once again bringing up abortion. I'm used to it.)


Selam

I agree with you. And, I deplore the blasé attitude displayed by the usual suspects.
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« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2012, 08:42:32 AM »

This country went off the deep in from day one. Slavery, genocide, abortion, and all the subsequent evils, perversions, and human rights violations that have ensued. While I share the laments of the OP, I always find it amazing that people are surprised by such BS and wonder why these things are happening. What could be more shocking and horrific than the legal slaughter of innocent babies in the womb? If we aren't outraged by that, then why should the rest of it bother us?

(OK folks, now you can go ahead and mock me for once again bringing up abortion. I'm used to it.)


Selam

I agree with you.

Stop lying (to yourself most of all), you don't believe it either.
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« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2012, 09:23:55 AM »

Perhaps I shouldn't post in this thread again, but here's where I'm coming from. If I really believed--I mean, truly in my heart of hearts believed--that I knew of a time and place at which multiple murders were going to be committed by someone, I would try to stop them. Maybe I'd get the crap beat out of me, or maybe I'd get sent to jail. But I'd try. I don't understand how someone can say that something is murder and then not do something to physically stop it from happening.
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« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2012, 09:27:19 AM »

This country went off the deep in from day one. Slavery, genocide, abortion, and all the subsequent evils, perversions, and human rights violations that have ensued. While I share the laments of the OP, I always find it amazing that people are surprised by such BS and wonder why these things are happening. What could be more shocking and horrific than the legal slaughter of innocent babies in the womb? If we aren't outraged by that, then why should the rest of it bother us?

(OK folks, now you can go ahead and mock me for once again bringing up abortion. I'm used to it.)


Selam

I agree with you.

Stop lying (to yourself most of all), you don't believe it either.

I think I understand the point you're trying to make, but I don't think it's quite fair. I think it's good to challenge ourselves and others with the question "Are your actions commiserate with your beliefs?"; but I think it's unfair to say that if we fail to act 100% on our convictions that we have no conviction at all. If that was true, the only people in heaven would be Saints. But I think Orthodoxy teaches that there may be a few who are less than Saints who will still enter the kingdom. Remember the father of the demoniac boy who exclaimed, "Lord, I believe. Help thou my unbelief." [St. Mark 9:24]


Selam
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« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2012, 09:33:59 AM »

Perhaps I shouldn't post in this thread again, but here's where I'm coming from. If I really believed--I mean, truly in my heart of hearts believed--that I knew of a time and place at which multiple murders were going to be committed by someone, I would try to stop them. Maybe I'd get the crap beat out of me, or maybe I'd get sent to jail. But I'd try. I don't understand how someone can say that something is murder and then not do something to physically stop it from happening.


I agree with you. And there are people every day who are standing on the front lines at abortion clinics trying to stop these murders. They don't get media attention (unless it's negative), but they are out there doing their best to try to save lives. I used to be one of them. It is to my shame that I haven't been active for many years.

However, please be careful with pressing this logic too far (see my previous comments). For example, I assume that you are opposed to the sale of crack cocaine (perhaps you are some type of libertarian and I am wrong about this particular assumption, but choose whatever example you wish). I can show you many places where crack is being sold, and where children are at risk. I imagine that if you tried, you could find such places in your own community or state. So I could tell you that you don't believe that crack cocaine is destructive, otherwise you would be present every day in neighborhoods where it is sold in order to try and stop it.

That being said, as I remarked in my last post, I agree that we should all challenge ourselves to act according to our Christian convictions. If we all did that, then we and others would all be much better off.


Selam
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« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2012, 09:51:34 AM »

Ok, good points, and I apologize for overreacting and saying what I said. And fwiw, as I've said before, I am against abortion (even when I was an atheist I was against it, albeit for different reasons).
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« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2012, 10:33:36 AM »

Perhaps I shouldn't post in this thread again, but here's where I'm coming from. If I really believed--I mean, truly in my heart of hearts believed--that I knew of a time and place at which multiple murders were going to be committed by someone, I would try to stop them. Maybe I'd get the crap beat out of me, or maybe I'd get sent to jail. But I'd try. I don't understand how someone can say that something is murder and then not do something to physically stop it from happening.


I agree with you. And there are people every day who are standing on the front lines at abortion clinics trying to stop these murders. They don't get media attention (unless it's negative), but they are out there doing their best to try to save lives. I used to be one of them. It is to my shame that I haven't been active for many years.

However, please be careful with pressing this logic too far (see my previous comments). For example, I assume that you are opposed to the sale of crack cocaine (perhaps you are some type of libertarian and I am wrong about this particular assumption, but choose whatever example you wish). I can show you many places where crack is being sold, and where children are at risk. I imagine that if you tried, you could find such places in your own community or state. So I could tell you that you don't believe that crack cocaine is destructive, otherwise you would be present every day in neighborhoods where it is sold in order to try and stop it.

That being said, as I remarked in my last post, I agree that we should all challenge ourselves to act according to our Christian convictions. If we all did that, then we and others would all be much better off.


Selam

I can see both your and Asteriktos's opinions and line up with both of them.  I firmly believe that actions are more useful in words, both in effectiveness at getting a point across, and also showing what a person truly believes.  At the same time, not everything requires action, but giving lip service to something at least shows that you disagree with it.  In short, saying you are against abortion and debating it, keeping it in people's minds, picketing, protesting, etc, while not the most effective means of ending it, is lightyears better than the useless people who say "I'd personally never have one, but I think everyone should have the right to make their own decision."  These people are completely and utterly worthless.  I would act to save their life just as quickly as I act everyday to save the unborn fetuses's lives.  If they at least had the integrity to say "I'd personally never have one, but I think everyone should have the right to make their own decision" then I could take them at face value.

That said, as I alluded to earlier, what am I willing to do to end abortion?  I will speak against it if asked, I will not support it willingly through fiscal means, I obviously will never have one (because if I ever get pregnant, that would just be too lucrative to pass up), I will not vote for any law that would make it easier to get or more legally justified.

But I would not kill to end it.  In my belief, if words are not backed by the 7.62x39mm cartridge then they are just that.  Words.

Why wouldn't I kill to end abortion?  I wish, I truly wish I could claim pacifism like you do.  I wish I could say that I oppose killing in general and will not use the means of those I oppose to achieve my end, regardless of how righteous my end it.  That would be a moral statement, but in my case, it would not be honest.  I do not kill to end abortion because the people suffering from it do not provide an immediate benefit to me.  I do not know them.  I have not drank with them.  I have not laughed with them.  But if some person were to threaten the life of someone I was close to and loved I would kill them.  I would kill them without remorse or pity or fear of the consequences.

I guess by my actions you could assume that I don't truly love them.

Oh well.  It is a paradox.  I do pray for them.  I also pity (though not necessarily pray for) the ones committing the abortions and those who commission them to do so.  God remembers the children slain by Herod.  I have no doubt in my mind that eventually enough will be enough and He will respond in a similar fashion as to how He did last time.  I don't think it will be pretty.


As for the state of the nation...

I believe that the Ship of State in our case is a canoe.  The body of water is called [feces] Creek.  I sure hope someone decided to bring a paddle.
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« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2012, 10:55:08 AM »

Perhaps I shouldn't post in this thread again, but here's where I'm coming from. If I really believed--I mean, truly in my heart of hearts believed--that I knew of a time and place at which multiple murders were going to be committed by someone, I would try to stop them. Maybe I'd get the crap beat out of me, or maybe I'd get sent to jail. But I'd try. I don't understand how someone can say that something is murder and then not do something to physically stop it from happening.


I agree with you. And there are people every day who are standing on the front lines at abortion clinics trying to stop these murders. They don't get media attention (unless it's negative), but they are out there doing their best to try to save lives. I used to be one of them. It is to my shame that I haven't been active for many years.

However, please be careful with pressing this logic too far (see my previous comments). For example, I assume that you are opposed to the sale of crack cocaine (perhaps you are some type of libertarian and I am wrong about this particular assumption, but choose whatever example you wish). I can show you many places where crack is being sold, and where children are at risk. I imagine that if you tried, you could find such places in your own community or state. So I could tell you that you don't believe that crack cocaine is destructive, otherwise you would be present every day in neighborhoods where it is sold in order to try and stop it.

That being said, as I remarked in my last post, I agree that we should all challenge ourselves to act according to our Christian convictions. If we all did that, then we and others would all be much better off.


Selam

I can see both your and Asteriktos's opinions and line up with both of them.  I firmly believe that actions are more useful in words, both in effectiveness at getting a point across, and also showing what a person truly believes.  At the same time, not everything requires action, but giving lip service to something at least shows that you disagree with it.  In short, saying you are against abortion and debating it, keeping it in people's minds, picketing, protesting, etc, while not the most effective means of ending it, is lightyears better than the useless people who say "I'd personally never have one, but I think everyone should have the right to make their own decision."  These people are completely and utterly worthless.  I would act to save their life just as quickly as I act everyday to save the unborn fetuses's lives.  If they at least had the integrity to say "I'd personally never have one, but I think everyone should have the right to make their own decision" then I could take them at face value.

That said, as I alluded to earlier, what am I willing to do to end abortion?  I will speak against it if asked, I will not support it willingly through fiscal means, I obviously will never have one (because if I ever get pregnant, that would just be too lucrative to pass up), I will not vote for any law that would make it easier to get or more legally justified.

But I would not kill to end it.  In my belief, if words are not backed by the 7.62x39mm cartridge then they are just that.  Words.

Why wouldn't I kill to end abortion?  I wish, I truly wish I could claim pacifism like you do.  I wish I could say that I oppose killing in general and will not use the means of those I oppose to achieve my end, regardless of how righteous my end it.  That would be a moral statement, but in my case, it would not be honest.  I do not kill to end abortion because the people suffering from it do not provide an immediate benefit to me.  I do not know them.  I have not drank with them.  I have not laughed with them.  But if some person were to threaten the life of someone I was close to and loved I would kill them.  I would kill them without remorse or pity or fear of the consequences.

I guess by my actions you could assume that I don't truly love them.

Oh well.  It is a paradox.  I do pray for them.  I also pity (though not necessarily pray for) the ones committing the abortions and those who commission them to do so.  God remembers the children slain by Herod.  I have no doubt in my mind that eventually enough will be enough and He will respond in a similar fashion as to how He did last time.  I don't think it will be pretty.


As for the state of the nation...

I believe that the Ship of State in our case is a canoe.  The body of water is called [feces] Creek.  I sure hope someone decided to bring a paddle.


Very good thoughts Vamrat.



Selam
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« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2012, 11:09:19 AM »

This country went off the deep in from day one. Slavery, genocide, abortion, and all the subsequent evils, perversions, and human rights violations that have ensued. While I share the laments of the OP, I always find it amazing that people are surprised by such BS and wonder why these things are happening. What could be more shocking and horrific than the legal slaughter of innocent babies in the womb? If we aren't outraged by that, then why should the rest of it bother us?

(OK folks, now you can go ahead and mock me for once again bringing up abortion. I'm used to it.)


Selam

I agree with you.

Stop lying (to yourself most of all), you don't believe it either.

Taking a page outta my playbook. Nice! And you are right. Don't apologize. I proved this in another thread.
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« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2012, 11:18:05 AM »

This country went off the deep in from day one. Slavery, genocide, abortion, and all the subsequent evils, perversions, and human rights violations that have ensued. While I share the laments of the OP, I always find it amazing that people are surprised by such BS and wonder why these things are happening. What could be more shocking and horrific than the legal slaughter of innocent babies in the womb? If we aren't outraged by that, then why should the rest of it bother us?

(OK folks, now you can go ahead and mock me for once again bringing up abortion. I'm used to it.)


Selam

I agree with you.

Stop lying (to yourself most of all), you don't believe it either.

Taking a page outta my playbook. Nice! And you are right. Don't apologize. I proved this in another thread.


Time to update your playbook. Also time to re-acquaint yourself with the definition of "prove."  Wink



Selam
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« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2012, 11:33:06 AM »

This country went off the deep in from day one. Slavery, genocide, abortion, and all the subsequent evils, perversions, and human rights violations that have ensued. While I share the laments of the OP, I always find it amazing that people are surprised by such BS and wonder why these things are happening. What could be more shocking and horrific than the legal slaughter of innocent babies in the womb? If we aren't outraged by that, then why should the rest of it bother us?

(OK folks, now you can go ahead and mock me for once again bringing up abortion. I'm used to it.)


Selam

I agree with you.

Stop lying (to yourself most of all), you don't believe it either.

Yes and no.

Yes, I agree with Gebre's statement about abortion. The fact of abortion is one thing, how a society treats it is another thing. In this sense, this country did not go wrong from day one; however, far too many folks today look at abortion as a mere medical procedure.

No, I do not agree that this country was rotten from day one. Slavery was a problem that was inherited and this nation was not united in support of it. Yes, it took a bloody civil war to end it, and it took another struggle years later to actualize the foundational premise that all men are equal, but this nation did that. I also do not agree with Gebre about genocide, which may be applied to this nation's dealings with Native Americans. I just don't agree that it was genocide (from the very start or later on).
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« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2012, 11:38:05 AM »

Fair enough. And just to clarify, when I spoke of stopping abortions physically, I didn't mean killing, or even necessarily any type of violence/contact. I suppose some people would argue for that, but I think even something like taking some pages out of the environmentalists' playbook (e.g. chaining yourself to something in the office/entryway) could have disrupted the day's happenings, and may have made some women rethink things and decide not to go through with it after all.
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« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2012, 11:43:53 AM »

Fair enough. And just to clarify, when I spoke of stopping abortions physically, I didn't mean killing, or even necessarily any type of violence/contact. I suppose some people would argue for that, but I think even something like taking some pages out of the environmentalists' playbook (e.g. chaining yourself to something in the office/entryway) could have disrupted the day's happenings, and may have made some women rethink things and decide not to go through with it after all.

I know a woman who did this. I'd share the picture, but it's not mine to share. She's a devout Catholic, and she and a group of her comrades literally chained themselves to tables in the clinic. I can't remember the whole story, and it was in the '70's I believe.
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« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2012, 11:48:43 AM »

I didn't say anything about gays or Hitler.

Do you want to stand on that statement?

Yes, I think that he stands on that statement.  He mentioned sexual talk that was off topic by speaker but did not bring up homosexuality. 

So if it was a straight guy talking about his girlfriend you think he still would have been outraged? Really? Seriously?  Cool

Yes, I would. Talking lewdly to kids is completely unacceptable.
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« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2012, 12:06:07 PM »

I didn't say anything about gays or Hitler.

Do you want to stand on that statement?

Yes, I think that he stands on that statement.  He mentioned sexual talk that was off topic by speaker but did not bring up homosexuality. 

So if it was a straight guy talking about his girlfriend you think he still would have been outraged? Really? Seriously?  Cool

Yes, I would. Talking lewdly to kids is completely unacceptable.

I also would be uncomfortable, unhappy and outraged. It is true that many kids are exposed to lewd, coarse and pornographic language and conduct, sometimes at a very early age. However, that does not make me sit back and say "c'est la vie;" it makes me want to say "that is completely unacceptable." I would want whomever was responsible for Mr Savage's appearance to be disciplined for at least lack of common sense.
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« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2012, 12:08:25 PM »

Fair enough. And just to clarify, when I spoke of stopping abortions physically, I didn't mean killing, or even necessarily any type of violence/contact. I suppose some people would argue for that, but I think even something like taking some pages out of the environmentalists' playbook (e.g. chaining yourself to something in the office/entryway) could have disrupted the day's happenings, and may have made some women rethink things and decide not to go through with it after all.

I know a woman who did this. I'd share the picture, but it's not mine to share. She's a devout Catholic, and she and a group of her comrades literally chained themselves to tables in the clinic. I can't remember the whole story, and it was in the '70's I believe.

Dorothy Day and the Berrigan brothers engaged in similar nonviolent tactics. Operation Rescue also did the same type of things. However, I think Operation Rescue was misguided- not because their philosophy was wrong, but because their strategy was wrong. The nonviolent efforts of Dr. King were based on sound Christian philosophy and sound Christian strategy. There is such a thing as Christian pragmatism. Our Lord told His disciples to be "wise as seprents and innocent as doves." [St. Matthew 10:16] The Civil Rights movement was ultimately successful because it was purposeful and pragmatic in its attempt to elicit sympathy for the cause. Operation Rescue didn't factor in the necessity of strategizing how to "market" their cause into a movement that would dovetail on the Civil Rights movement. That was their failure. That being said, I know that their actions saved lives, and that cannot be discounted. But I think there was probably a way to save lives immediately while also cultivating sympathy for the overall cause. But Dr. King was a rare genius, and Operation Rescue had a mere Randall Terry at its helm.

I highly recommend reading the works of Dr. King, especially his book "Why We Can't Wait." He is known for his oratorical brilliance, but he was an equally gifted writer- cogent philosophy wed to poetic eloquence.

I also recommend the wonderful biography of the Berrigan brothers called "Disarmed and Dangerous." Their actions met their convictions, epitomizing the concept of "social justice" long before the term was misappropriated by the Left and disparaged by the Right.


Selam
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« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2012, 03:46:30 PM »

Ok, I don't pay much attention to the media, but a couple things this week have really gotten my attention...

First, Dan Savage was supposed to give a talk about bullying to high school journalism students. Instead, he talked about what his boyfriend looks like in a speedo and other sexual stuff (that stuff alone should have PERMANENTLY discredited him from anything professional, there should be a media fire storm, no man should be talking to high school students about this stuff). Then he said the bible was BS and called the kids that walked out "Pansy asses." Most of the kids cheered him on.

Then some woman on Dr. Phil wants to kill her disabled adult children... 95% of the audience says she should be able to.


Eh, there was something else I've forgotten by now but just these two are enough. Americans are loosing anything remotely like morality. Killing ("euthanizing" they say, but its killing) disabled people comes right out of the Nazi books. And even the Romans didn't let vile completely unqualified people like Savage teach their children, but we let him inform our children's world view? He teaches them to be promiscuous, and sex ed still teaches that oral sex is "safer" and "prevents AIDs" even though it has been realized that the HPV that causes genital warts and cancer now also causes throat cancer, and all STDS are becoming resistant to our entire range of drugs.  Undecided

I'm not sure that Americans were all that moral to begin with. Sure, there was more decency. Now that has gone away and more and more people are entering the groupthink that is mass media/Internet (sort of ironic to say that on an online forum). Years ago in my American history class, my teacher taught us that the cardinal rule of history is "the masses are asses." People are directionless, and they often accept no direction but their own thoughts--and if other people think like they do, it's a confirmation to them. This is, of course very sad. We go from worse to worse. But this is no reason to despair. God will always be in control, even in the midst of greater evils. Remember the story of the Holy Prophet Elias, how he complained to God that he alone was left and the king was seeking to kill him. And God told him he had preserved a remnant in Israel, every knee that has not bowed to Baal. And it continues to be so to this day. So, turn off the TV. Pray. Weep. Refrain from evil. Read Scripture. And learn what you can do for yourself and others.
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« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2012, 03:50:29 PM »

Hey folks serious question here, but sadly I can't say if it's a smart one.

I think this is relevant due to the subject header but here goes:

Is it at all bad to tune the country, America, etc whatever is going on in the world out? Like pay no mind to it? Or should I do the respectable thing as a citizen and get embroiled in politics?

To the extent that politics is only a manifestation of human passions, I don't think it's worth betting "embroiled" in. It's worth knowing what's going on--but only to a point. It's not worth obsessing over. And I don't think one can ever tune it out entirely. Even the monks on Mt. Athos, though they may not read newspapers are listen to the radio, are always praying and weeping over the world, asking that God be merciful. This is what we do, too, as much as we can.
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« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2012, 03:51:40 PM »

Hey folks serious question here, but sadly I can't say if it's a smart one.

I think this is relevant due to the subject header but here goes:

Is it at all bad to tune the country, America, etc whatever is going on in the world out? Like pay no mind to it? Or should I do the respectable thing as a citizen and get embroiled in politics?

One of the best things I ever did was to stop paying attention to the news. Media in general.

If I ain't around here, I have no idea what is going on. And there is enough going on in my life I can actually do something about without getting lost in the constant stream of negative stories where I have no control over.

Adding thyme or rosemary to that sage advice would be superfluous.
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« Reply #53 on: May 04, 2012, 03:53:11 PM »

I think Savage is really an anti-gay activist who is pretending to be gay, so as to rile up decent persons.

Alas, I think the decent persons count themselves too few to be effective when riled.
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« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2012, 03:57:45 PM »

This country went off the deep in from day one. Slavery, genocide, abortion, and all the subsequent evils, perversions, and human rights violations that have ensued. While I share the laments of the OP, I always find it amazing that people are surprised by such BS and wonder why these things are happening. What could be more shocking and horrific than the legal slaughter of innocent babies in the womb? If we aren't outraged by that, then why should the rest of it bother us?

(OK folks, now you can go ahead and mock me for once again bringing up abortion. I'm used to it.)


Selam
I think we have come a long way since then, personally. Slavery has been abolished, and while racism still exists, we have made pretty big strides as a country for equality. Genocide is a thing in the past for Americans after what we had done to the Natives.

Our traditional foundations are shifting, but my question is will we end up becoming irreligious like Europe? We have moved away from a very conservative Protestant Christianity to something much more liberal to keep attracting peoplemoney.

I would look at it another way. While slavery has been abolished, aren't even more people treated as objects? While people are more aware of racism, hasn't prejudice increased? (Not just based on looks, but perceived ideological adherence, etc.)

I would not call any Protestantism conservative, given that their first act of conservation was to throw the baby out with the bath water. But, anyway, when you look at the whole picture, you see people who are directionless, rootless. They blow with the wind here and there. They have no fundamental values based on unchanging truth because they have adapted to the way of convenience.
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« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2012, 04:01:00 PM »

I didn't say anything about gays or Hitler.

Do you want to stand on that statement?

Yes, I think that he stands on that statement.  He mentioned sexual talk that was off topic by speaker but did not bring up homosexuality. 

So if it was a straight guy talking about his girlfriend you think he still would have been outraged? Really? Seriously?  Cool

Yes, I would. Talking lewdly to kids is completely unacceptable.

Indeed it is. I would hope that the parents were aware. Sadly, however, many parents have ceded their parental authority to the schools, and the schools have taken advantage of being a large organization against one family.
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« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2012, 05:00:12 PM »

You all must not spend much time around kids who aren't frightened by you or something, cause most of them say worse.

Not saying that it is OK, but that I could tell some tales. Ones I hear daily that would scandalize you, if you think that "talk" to be inappropriate.
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« Reply #57 on: May 05, 2012, 05:46:28 PM »

This country went off the deep in from day one. Slavery, genocide, abortion, and all the subsequent evils, perversions, and human rights violations that have ensued. While I share the laments of the OP, I always find it amazing that people are surprised by such BS and wonder why these things are happening. What could be more shocking and horrific than the legal slaughter of innocent babies in the womb? If we aren't outraged by that, then why should the rest of it bother us?

(OK folks, now you can go ahead and mock me for once again bringing up abortion. I'm used to it.)


Selam
I think we have come a long way since then, personally. Slavery has been abolished, and while racism still exists, we have made pretty big strides as a country for equality. Genocide is a thing in the past for Americans after what we had done to the Natives.

Our traditional foundations are shifting, but my question is will we end up becoming irreligious like Europe? We have moved away from a very conservative Protestant Christianity to something much more liberal to keep attracting peoplemoney.

I would look at it another way. While slavery has been abolished, aren't even more people treated as objects? While people are more aware of racism, hasn't prejudice increased? (Not just based on looks, but perceived ideological adherence, etc.)

I would not call any Protestantism conservative, given that their first act of conservation was to throw the baby out with the bath water. But, anyway, when you look at the whole picture, you see people who are directionless, rootless. They blow with the wind here and there. They have no fundamental values based on unchanging truth because they have adapted to the way of convenience.


Amen to that.



Selam
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« Reply #58 on: May 05, 2012, 05:54:58 PM »

This country went off the deep in from day one. Slavery, genocide, abortion, and all the subsequent evils, perversions, and human rights violations that have ensued. While I share the laments of the OP, I always find it amazing that people are surprised by such BS and wonder why these things are happening. What could be more shocking and horrific than the legal slaughter of innocent babies in the womb? If we aren't outraged by that, then why should the rest of it bother us?

(OK folks, now you can go ahead and mock me for once again bringing up abortion. I'm used to it.)


Selam
I think we have come a long way since then, personally. Slavery has been abolished, and while racism still exists, we have made pretty big strides as a country for equality. Genocide is a thing in the past for Americans after what we had done to the Natives.

Our traditional foundations are shifting, but my question is will we end up becoming irreligious like Europe? We have moved away from a very conservative Protestant Christianity to something much more liberal to keep attracting peoplemoney.

I would look at it another way. While slavery has been abolished, aren't even more people treated as objects? While people are more aware of racism, hasn't prejudice increased? (Not just based on looks, but perceived ideological adherence, etc.)

I would not call any Protestantism conservative, given that their first act of conservation was to throw the baby out with the bath water. But, anyway, when you look at the whole picture, you see people who are directionless, rootless. They blow with the wind here and there. They have no fundamental values based on unchanging truth because they have adapted to the way of convenience.

Excellent points. And yes we are treated as objects, even numbers if you will.
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