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Author Topic: Biblical dress in the Eastern Orthodox Church  (Read 4670 times) Average Rating: 0
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yeshuaisiam
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« on: May 02, 2012, 08:27:03 PM »

Many of the people who are part of the Eastern Orthodox Church body DO dress biblically, at least from what we can tell from the scriptures.  So my question is NOT directed at the churches that follow the scripture.  So unfortunately, that leads me to have to point fingers and be specific.

OCA churches ---- **I am NOT picking on the parish as many are similar, where half the women do dress fairly biblically** -- http://athanasiusoca.org/pictures/theophany/2007/  This is fairly consistent in the OCA churches. 

Greek Orthodox in America churches - --*** again I'm not picking on the parish in the Greek Orthodox church specifically*** http://www.stpauldenison.org/photos.html

I'm questioning why the dress is not more consistently biblical?  (is it kind of like the beards / calendar issue?)  I often wondered this because at one point we switched from the OCA to ROCOR and it was 100% biblical dress.   

Anyway, here are some scriptures on biblical dress, that I would be interested on a discussion about the dress, consistency, etc.

First we are supposed to dress modest (usually followed) and not expensive (not often followed), as the scriptures command - and also not wear gold or jewels etc. (not followed)

1 Timothy 2:9
Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire.

1 Peter 3:3-4
Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious.

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”


It is also "Womanly" and "Manly" to adorn in traditional garments for their right gender.  This is both followed and not followed in the churches.  Women often wear pants, which is only modern in (at least in America) for women to wear.   Most of our grandmothers & great grandmothers grew up in dresses only.

Deuteronomy 22:5
“A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.

Many of the women do not wear head coverings, as the icons depict, but rather wear modern hair do's to church.  Biblical women always wore head coverings, because we are to "pray without ceasing".
1 Corinthians 11 5-6  - But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 - Pray without ceasing.   

So I'm not directly attacking, but wondering why this is not a consistent issues stressed in these churches.  Unlike "trivial" arguments, such as the calendar which is argued in the churches, these are scriptures.  I'm not sure, but the only thing I can think of is that these women are unaware of the scripture, or the churches have not taught them the scriptures, or are too "scared" (dunno the right word) to teach them these scriptures in fear of the parishoners getting mad or something.

Why such a loss in consistency?

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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2012, 08:37:14 PM »

Many of the people who are part of the Eastern Orthodox Church body DO dress biblically, at least from what we can tell from the scriptures.  So my question is NOT directed at the churches that follow the scripture.  So unfortunately, that leads me to have to point fingers and be specific.

OCA churches ---- **I am NOT picking on the parish as many are similar, where half the women do dress fairly biblically** -- http://athanasiusoca.org/pictures/theophany/2007/  This is fairly consistent in the OCA churches. 

Greek Orthodox in America churches - --*** again I'm not picking on the parish in the Greek Orthodox church specifically*** http://www.stpauldenison.org/photos.html

I'm questioning why the dress is not more consistently biblical?  (is it kind of like the beards / calendar issue?)  I often wondered this because at one point we switched from the OCA to ROCOR and it was 100% biblical dress.   

Anyway, here are some scriptures on biblical dress, that I would be interested on a discussion about the dress, consistency, etc.

First we are supposed to dress modest (usually followed) and not expensive (not often followed), as the scriptures command - and also not wear gold or jewels etc. (not followed)

1 Timothy 2:9
Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire.

1 Peter 3:3-4
Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious.

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”


It is also "Womanly" and "Manly" to adorn in traditional garments for their right gender.  This is both followed and not followed in the churches.  Women often wear pants, which is only modern in (at least in America) for women to wear.   Most of our grandmothers & great grandmothers grew up in dresses only.
When the Bible was written, NO ONE wore pants.  Why can men wear them now?

Deuteronomy 22:5
“A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.

Many of the women do not wear head coverings, as the icons depict, but rather wear modern hair do's to church.  Biblical women always wore head coverings, because we are to "pray without ceasing".
1 Corinthians 11 5-6  - But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 - Pray without ceasing.   

So I'm not directly attacking, but wondering why this is not a consistent issues stressed in these churches.  Unlike "trivial" arguments, such as the calendar which is argued in the churches, these are scriptures.  I'm not sure, but the only thing I can think of is that these women are unaware of the scripture, or the churches have not taught them the scriptures, or are too "scared" (dunno the right word) to teach them these scriptures in fear of the parishoners getting mad or something.

Why such a loss in consistency?
The same way you wear pants now.
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2012, 08:39:36 PM »

When the Bible was written, NO ONE wore pants.

Thread over. Isa wins again.
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yeshuaisiam
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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2012, 08:39:59 PM »

Many of the people who are part of the Eastern Orthodox Church body DO dress biblically, at least from what we can tell from the scriptures.  So my question is NOT directed at the churches that follow the scripture.  So unfortunately, that leads me to have to point fingers and be specific.

OCA churches ---- **I am NOT picking on the parish as many are similar, where half the women do dress fairly biblically** -- http://athanasiusoca.org/pictures/theophany/2007/  This is fairly consistent in the OCA churches. 

Greek Orthodox in America churches - --*** again I'm not picking on the parish in the Greek Orthodox church specifically*** http://www.stpauldenison.org/photos.html

I'm questioning why the dress is not more consistently biblical?  (is it kind of like the beards / calendar issue?)  I often wondered this because at one point we switched from the OCA to ROCOR and it was 100% biblical dress.   

Anyway, here are some scriptures on biblical dress, that I would be interested on a discussion about the dress, consistency, etc.

First we are supposed to dress modest (usually followed) and not expensive (not often followed), as the scriptures command - and also not wear gold or jewels etc. (not followed)

1 Timothy 2:9
Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire.

1 Peter 3:3-4
Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious.

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”


It is also "Womanly" and "Manly" to adorn in traditional garments for their right gender.  This is both followed and not followed in the churches.  Women often wear pants, which is only modern in (at least in America) for women to wear.   Most of our grandmothers & great grandmothers grew up in dresses only.
When the Bible was written, NO ONE wore pants.  Why can men wear them now?

Deuteronomy 22:5
“A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.

Many of the women do not wear head coverings, as the icons depict, but rather wear modern hair do's to church.  Biblical women always wore head coverings, because we are to "pray without ceasing".
1 Corinthians 11 5-6  - But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 - Pray without ceasing.   

So I'm not directly attacking, but wondering why this is not a consistent issues stressed in these churches.  Unlike "trivial" arguments, such as the calendar which is argued in the churches, these are scriptures.  I'm not sure, but the only thing I can think of is that these women are unaware of the scripture, or the churches have not taught them the scriptures, or are too "scared" (dunno the right word) to teach them these scriptures in fear of the parishoners getting mad or something.

Why such a loss in consistency?
The same way you wear pants now.

Its not just the pants I was talking about, but pants actually are worn for a long time by men only.. But anyway...  Gold, jewels, head coverings?
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yeshuaisiam
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2012, 08:41:18 PM »

When the Bible was written, NO ONE wore pants.

Thread over. Isa wins again.

You didn't read the thread.  It wasn't only about pants.  Gold, head coverings, jewels?

Also FYI, I am comparing Orthodox with Orthodox.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 08:41:50 PM by yeshuaisiam » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 08:41:37 PM »

Many of the people who are part of the Eastern Orthodox Church body DO dress biblically, at least from what we can tell from the scriptures.  So my question is NOT directed at the churches that follow the scripture.  So unfortunately, that leads me to have to point fingers and be specific.

You have a religion that is a combination of other religions: Christian, Jewish, Hindu, etc.; do you wear an Ephod?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 08:45:23 PM by SolEX01 » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2012, 08:43:43 PM »

Quote from: yeshuaisiam

Its not just the pants I was talking about, but pants actually are worn for a long time by men only.. But anyway...  Gold, jewels, head coverings?

It's interesting that you seem to have hang-ups about the women. You should see my parish, where it's the men who have big gold pendants and open shirts.
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« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2012, 08:44:06 PM »

When the Bible was written, NO ONE wore pants.

Thread over. Isa wins again.

You didn't read the thread.  It wasn't only about pants.  Gold, head coverings, jewels?

Also FYI, I am comparing Orthodox with Orthodox.

God commanded gold and jewels in the ephod - look at Exodus 28.
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yeshuaisiam
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« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2012, 08:44:52 PM »

Many of the people who are part of the Eastern Orthodox Church body DO dress biblically, at least from what we can tell from the scriptures.  So my question is NOT directed at the churches that follow the scripture.  So unfortunately, that leads me to have to point fingers and be specific.

You have a mixed up religion; do you wear an Ephod?
Please, lets not digress.  That's where legit questions go to personal attacks and stray.   I'm comparing Orthodox to Orthodox, those in communion with each other - OCA, Greek Orthodox, ROCOR, Antiochian etc.
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« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2012, 08:45:22 PM »

Many of the people who are part of the Eastern Orthodox Church body DO dress biblically, at least from what we can tell from the scriptures.  So my question is NOT directed at the churches that follow the scripture.  So unfortunately, that leads me to have to point fingers and be specific.

OCA churches ---- **I am NOT picking on the parish as many are similar, where half the women do dress fairly biblically** -- http://athanasiusoca.org/pictures/theophany/2007/  This is fairly consistent in the OCA churches. 

Greek Orthodox in America churches - --*** again I'm not picking on the parish in the Greek Orthodox church specifically*** http://www.stpauldenison.org/photos.html

I'm questioning why the dress is not more consistently biblical?  (is it kind of like the beards / calendar issue?)  I often wondered this because at one point we switched from the OCA to ROCOR and it was 100% biblical dress.   

Anyway, here are some scriptures on biblical dress, that I would be interested on a discussion about the dress, consistency, etc.

First we are supposed to dress modest (usually followed) and not expensive (not often followed), as the scriptures command - and also not wear gold or jewels etc. (not followed)

1 Timothy 2:9
Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire.

1 Peter 3:3-4
Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious.

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”


It is also "Womanly" and "Manly" to adorn in traditional garments for their right gender.  This is both followed and not followed in the churches.  Women often wear pants, which is only modern in (at least in America) for women to wear.   Most of our grandmothers & great grandmothers grew up in dresses only.

Deuteronomy 22:5
“A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.

Many of the women do not wear head coverings, as the icons depict, but rather wear modern hair do's to church.  Biblical women always wore head coverings, because we are to "pray without ceasing".
1 Corinthians 11 5-6  - But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 - Pray without ceasing.   

So I'm not directly attacking, but wondering why this is not a consistent issues stressed in these churches.  Unlike "trivial" arguments, such as the calendar which is argued in the churches, these are scriptures.  I'm not sure, but the only thing I can think of is that these women are unaware of the scripture, or the churches have not taught them the scriptures, or are too "scared" (dunno the right word) to teach them these scriptures in fear of the parishoners getting mad or something.

Why such a loss in consistency?



I submit that it's a case of the culture changing the religion.  This is maybe a case of economy; you start enforcing dress codes and the coffers dry up.
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« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2012, 08:45:28 PM »

When the Bible was written, NO ONE wore pants.

Thread over. Isa wins again.

You didn't read the thread.  It wasn't only about pants.  Gold, head coverings, jewels?

Also FYI, I am comparing Orthodox with Orthodox.

Okay, Yesh, to be fair to you, Isa's quip doesn't bring down your whole thread, and I will take you on your word that you are not attacking, but just asking.

However, Isa's point re pants is actually really, really important, as it illustrates that you can't judge what these scripture verses mean without understanding the historical context in which they were written.

Can you respond to this?
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« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2012, 08:46:46 PM »

Many of the people who are part of the Eastern Orthodox Church body DO dress biblically, at least from what we can tell from the scriptures.  So my question is NOT directed at the churches that follow the scripture.  So unfortunately, that leads me to have to point fingers and be specific.

You have a mixed up religion; do you wear an Ephod?
Please, lets not digress.  That's where legit questions go to personal attacks and stray.   I'm comparing Orthodox to Orthodox, those in communion with each other - OCA, Greek Orthodox, ROCOR, Antiochian etc.

What are you going to do when it's too cold to wear a skirt? Oh wait, you have never faced that situation. I have. I've hiked to church after a big snowstorm. The church is supposed to be an example of the mercy of God, not of legalism.
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« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2012, 08:47:23 PM »

When the Bible was written, NO ONE wore pants.

Thread over. Isa wins again.

You didn't read the thread.  It wasn't only about pants.  Gold, head coverings, jewels?

Also FYI, I am comparing Orthodox with Orthodox.

God commanded gold and jewels in the ephod - look at Exodus 28.

The ephod was of religious importance, jewels & gold are usually not.  Gold earrings for example.
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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2012, 08:48:44 PM »

Many of the people who are part of the Eastern Orthodox Church body DO dress biblically, at least from what we can tell from the scriptures.  So my question is NOT directed at the churches that follow the scripture.  So unfortunately, that leads me to have to point fingers and be specific.

You have a mixed up religion; do you wear an Ephod?
Please, lets not digress.  That's where legit questions go to personal attacks and stray.

No, you commented about what women wear at different Orthodox Churches.

  I'm comparing Orthodox to Orthodox, those in communion with each other - OCA, Greek Orthodox, ROCOR, Antiochian etc.

We all wear clothing suited for different climates at different times of the year - that isn't specific enough for you?
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« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2012, 08:49:14 PM »

When the Bible was written, NO ONE wore pants.

Thread over. Isa wins again.

You didn't read the thread.  It wasn't only about pants.  Gold, head coverings, jewels?

Also FYI, I am comparing Orthodox with Orthodox.

God commanded gold and jewels in the ephod - look at Exodus 28.

The ephod was of religious importance, jewels & gold are usually not.  Gold earrings for example.

At least they're in church. You?

Why not worry about your own sins?
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« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2012, 08:49:21 PM »

Many of the people who are part of the Eastern Orthodox Church body DO dress biblically, at least from what we can tell from the scriptures.  So my question is NOT directed at the churches that follow the scripture.  So unfortunately, that leads me to have to point fingers and be specific.

OCA churches ---- **I am NOT picking on the parish as many are similar, where half the women do dress fairly biblically** -- http://athanasiusoca.org/pictures/theophany/2007/  This is fairly consistent in the OCA churches. 

Greek Orthodox in America churches - --*** again I'm not picking on the parish in the Greek Orthodox church specifically*** http://www.stpauldenison.org/photos.html

I'm questioning why the dress is not more consistently biblical?  (is it kind of like the beards / calendar issue?)  I often wondered this because at one point we switched from the OCA to ROCOR and it was 100% biblical dress.   

Anyway, here are some scriptures on biblical dress, that I would be interested on a discussion about the dress, consistency, etc.

First we are supposed to dress modest (usually followed) and not expensive (not often followed), as the scriptures command - and also not wear gold or jewels etc. (not followed)

1 Timothy 2:9
Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire.

1 Peter 3:3-4
Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious.

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”


It is also "Womanly" and "Manly" to adorn in traditional garments for their right gender.  This is both followed and not followed in the churches.  Women often wear pants, which is only modern in (at least in America) for women to wear.   Most of our grandmothers & great grandmothers grew up in dresses only.
When the Bible was written, NO ONE wore pants.  Why can men wear them now?

Deuteronomy 22:5
“A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.

Many of the women do not wear head coverings, as the icons depict, but rather wear modern hair do's to church.  Biblical women always wore head coverings, because we are to "pray without ceasing".
1 Corinthians 11 5-6  - But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 - Pray without ceasing.   

So I'm not directly attacking, but wondering why this is not a consistent issues stressed in these churches.  Unlike "trivial" arguments, such as the calendar which is argued in the churches, these are scriptures.  I'm not sure, but the only thing I can think of is that these women are unaware of the scripture, or the churches have not taught them the scriptures, or are too "scared" (dunno the right word) to teach them these scriptures in fear of the parishoners getting mad or something.

Why such a loss in consistency?
The same way you wear pants now.

Its not just the pants I was talking about, but pants actually are worn for a long time by men only.
Not as far back as Bible times.

But anyway...  Gold, jewels, head coverings?
Watches, ties, cuff links....pants.  Btw, ever see Christ with a crew cut? Or socks?
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2012, 08:51:04 PM »

When the Bible was written, NO ONE wore pants.

Thread over. Isa wins again.

You didn't read the thread.  It wasn't only about pants.  Gold, head coverings, jewels?

Also FYI, I am comparing Orthodox with Orthodox.

Okay, Yesh, to be fair to you, Isa's quip doesn't bring down your whole thread, and I will take you on your word that you are not attacking, but just asking.

However, Isa's point re pants is actually really, really important, as it illustrates that you can't judge what these scripture verses mean without understanding the historical context in which they were written.

Can you respond to this?

Sure, well as far as I can say, through many years the clothing of women have been dresses. (how far back I don't know, but well over 1k years through non-fiction reading I've done) in our American culture it was always the dress of women, and men pants.

The women of modern day began to adorn the clothing of men, which has been understood as men's clothing for a very long time.
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« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2012, 08:52:17 PM »

Many of the people who are part of the Eastern Orthodox Church body DO dress biblically, at least from what we can tell from the scriptures.  So my question is NOT directed at the churches that follow the scripture.  So unfortunately, that leads me to have to point fingers and be specific.

You have a mixed up religion; do you wear an Ephod?
Please, lets not digress.  That's where legit questions go to personal attacks and stray.   I'm comparing Orthodox to Orthodox, those in communion with each other - OCA, Greek Orthodox, ROCOR, Antiochian etc.

What are you going to do when it's too cold to wear a skirt? Oh wait, you have never faced that situation. I have. I've hiked to church after a big snowstorm. The church is supposed to be an example of the mercy of God, not of legalism.

I don't know.   By the photos I've presented, there was no snowstorm.  It appears to be typical weather on the outdoor photos at least.   Also women in history wore dresses in snowstorms.
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« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2012, 08:52:40 PM »

America is not the world.

What do you say to Scotsmen who wear kilts to church?
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« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2012, 08:53:17 PM »

The women of modern day began to adorn the clothing of men, which has been understood as men's clothing for a very long time.

Are you really a Russian Old Believer masquerading as a new age Orthodox Christian?
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« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2012, 08:53:49 PM »

Many of the people who are part of the Eastern Orthodox Church body DO dress biblically, at least from what we can tell from the scriptures.  So my question is NOT directed at the churches that follow the scripture.  So unfortunately, that leads me to have to point fingers and be specific.

You have a mixed up religion; do you wear an Ephod?
Please, lets not digress.  That's where legit questions go to personal attacks and stray.   I'm comparing Orthodox to Orthodox, those in communion with each other - OCA, Greek Orthodox, ROCOR, Antiochian etc.

What are you going to do when it's too cold to wear a skirt? Oh wait, you have never faced that situation. I have. I've hiked to church after a big snowstorm. The church is supposed to be an example of the mercy of God, not of legalism.

I don't know.   By the photos I've presented, there was no snowstorm.  It appears to be typical weather on the outdoor photos at least.   Also women in history wore dresses in snowstorms.

So, when I'm talking about a real incident from my life, I don't know what I meant?  Huh

Or are you contending that snowstorms never exist?

When did you become a history expert?
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« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2012, 08:53:57 PM »

Many of the people who are part of the Eastern Orthodox Church body DO dress biblically, at least from what we can tell from the scriptures.  So my question is NOT directed at the churches that follow the scripture.  So unfortunately, that leads me to have to point fingers and be specific.

OCA churches ---- **I am NOT picking on the parish as many are similar, where half the women do dress fairly biblically** -- http://athanasiusoca.org/pictures/theophany/2007/  This is fairly consistent in the OCA churches. 

Greek Orthodox in America churches - --*** again I'm not picking on the parish in the Greek Orthodox church specifically*** http://www.stpauldenison.org/photos.html

I'm questioning why the dress is not more consistently biblical?  (is it kind of like the beards / calendar issue?)  I often wondered this because at one point we switched from the OCA to ROCOR and it was 100% biblical dress.   

Anyway, here are some scriptures on biblical dress, that I would be interested on a discussion about the dress, consistency, etc.

First we are supposed to dress modest (usually followed) and not expensive (not often followed), as the scriptures command - and also not wear gold or jewels etc. (not followed)

1 Timothy 2:9
Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire.

1 Peter 3:3-4
Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious.

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”


It is also "Womanly" and "Manly" to adorn in traditional garments for their right gender.  This is both followed and not followed in the churches.  Women often wear pants, which is only modern in (at least in America) for women to wear.   Most of our grandmothers & great grandmothers grew up in dresses only.
When the Bible was written, NO ONE wore pants.  Why can men wear them now?

Deuteronomy 22:5
“A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.

Many of the women do not wear head coverings, as the icons depict, but rather wear modern hair do's to church.  Biblical women always wore head coverings, because we are to "pray without ceasing".
1 Corinthians 11 5-6  - But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 - Pray without ceasing.   

So I'm not directly attacking, but wondering why this is not a consistent issues stressed in these churches.  Unlike "trivial" arguments, such as the calendar which is argued in the churches, these are scriptures.  I'm not sure, but the only thing I can think of is that these women are unaware of the scripture, or the churches have not taught them the scriptures, or are too "scared" (dunno the right word) to teach them these scriptures in fear of the parishoners getting mad or something.

Why such a loss in consistency?
The same way you wear pants now.

Its not just the pants I was talking about, but pants actually are worn for a long time by men only.
Not as far back as Bible times.

But anyway...  Gold, jewels, head coverings?
Watches, ties, cuff links....pants.  Btw, ever see Christ with a crew cut? Or socks?

I've never seen Christ, except in the Eucharist.
I don't know about watches, some gold, some not.... Tools?  I don't know what to think about them.  
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« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2012, 08:58:44 PM »

Many of the people who are part of the Eastern Orthodox Church body DO dress biblically, at least from what we can tell from the scriptures.  So my question is NOT directed at the churches that follow the scripture.  So unfortunately, that leads me to have to point fingers and be specific.

You have a mixed up religion; do you wear an Ephod?
Please, lets not digress.  That's where legit questions go to personal attacks and stray.   I'm comparing Orthodox to Orthodox, those in communion with each other - OCA, Greek Orthodox, ROCOR, Antiochian etc.

What are you going to do when it's too cold to wear a skirt? Oh wait, you have never faced that situation. I have. I've hiked to church after a big snowstorm. The church is supposed to be an example of the mercy of God, not of legalism.

I don't know.   By the photos I've presented, there was no snowstorm.  It appears to be typical weather on the outdoor photos at least.   Also women in history wore dresses in snowstorms.

So, when I'm talking about a real incident from my life, I don't know what I meant?  Huh

Or are you contending that snowstorms never exist?

When did you become a history expert?

I'm sure you had the experience.   Somehow,  Laura Ingalls Wilder managed in a skirt in Desmet SD at -20F with nails freezing in the roof of her home.

As far as history, if you would like to show me where it was absolutely common in at least American culture, pre 1900's for women to wear pants I'd appreciate it.   The churches I've given examples to were American churches.   Not ALL ORTHODOX parishoners do this.   I'm comparing ORTHODOX TO ORTHODOX and wondering about the inconsistency.
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« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2012, 09:00:24 PM »

Many of the people who are part of the Eastern Orthodox Church body DO dress biblically, at least from what we can tell from the scriptures.  So my question is NOT directed at the churches that follow the scripture.  So unfortunately, that leads me to have to point fingers and be specific.

You have a mixed up religion; do you wear an Ephod?
Please, lets not digress.  That's where legit questions go to personal attacks and stray.   I'm comparing Orthodox to Orthodox, those in communion with each other - OCA, Greek Orthodox, ROCOR, Antiochian etc.

What are you going to do when it's too cold to wear a skirt? Oh wait, you have never faced that situation. I have. I've hiked to church after a big snowstorm. The church is supposed to be an example of the mercy of God, not of legalism.

I don't know.   By the photos I've presented, there was no snowstorm.  It appears to be typical weather on the outdoor photos at least.   Also women in history wore dresses in snowstorms.
So did men.
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« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2012, 09:01:24 PM »

Ah, so yesh, you are the expert on Biblical mores now.

Why don't you stop kvetching about the women and worry about yourself?

You don't mention someone else's sins in Confession, just yours. That example can be taken elsewhere.

And why the hell are we all supposed to be like Laura Wilder? Do you even know what you are talking about?

Should I stop wearing jackets, too?

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« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2012, 09:02:24 PM »

The women of modern day began to adorn the clothing of men, which has been understood as men's clothing for a very long time.

Are you really a Russian Old Believer masquerading as a new age Orthodox Christian?

What?
No... Not sure of the point... but...
I may be my own grandpa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu_Y1wQ923g&feature=fvwrel
Sorry just don't know the point of the question.  In my faith area, its where I'm at.
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« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2012, 09:03:49 PM »

The women of modern day began to adorn the clothing of men, which has been understood as men's clothing for a very long time.

Are you really a Russian Old Believer masquerading as a new age Orthodox Christian?

What?
No... Not sure of the point... but...
I may be my own grandpa
What's the Bible say about incest?
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« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2012, 09:05:32 PM »

Ah, so yesh, you are the expert on Biblical mores now.

Why don't you stop kvetching about the women and worry about yourself?

You don't mention someone else's sins in Confession, just yours. That example can be taken elsewhere.

And why the hell are we all supposed to be like Laura Wilder? Do you even know what you are talking about?

Should I stop wearing jackets, too?



I do worry about myself.... ehm... I don't know what you are talking about.

I was giving an example that Laura Ingalls, somebody in American History, consistently wore dresses even in the harshest American winters.   I was giving an example of how in our culture women did not adorn the clothing of men here... Until fairly recently.
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« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2012, 09:06:24 PM »

Still, you haven't given us a reason we should care.

Your own backyard: best be cleaning it.
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« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2012, 09:07:54 PM »

The women of modern day began to adorn the clothing of men, which has been understood as men's clothing for a very long time.

Are you really a Russian Old Believer masquerading as a new age Orthodox Christian?

What?
No... Not sure of the point... but...
I may be my own grandpa
What's the Bible say about incest?
Wow...
Well here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzae_SqbmDE
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« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2012, 09:09:16 PM »

Still, you haven't given us a reason we should care.

Your own backyard: best be cleaning it.

Read my OP for the scriptures of why you should care.  Not just on dresses.
The scriptures command women to not adorn the clothes of men, or men women.   In our culture, women dressed one way, and men another.  It was mainly after women's lib that women wore pants so often.
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« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2012, 09:12:15 PM »

Still, you haven't given us a reason we should care.

Your own backyard: best be cleaning it.

Read my OP for the scriptures of why you should care.  Not just on dresses.
The scriptures command women to not adorn the clothes of men, or men women.   In our culture, women dressed one way, and men another.  It was mainly after women's lib that women wore pants so often.

Obsession is not a healthy thing.
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« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2012, 09:17:05 PM »

"Amazon wearing trousers and carrying a shield with an attached patterned cloth and a quiver. Ancient Greek Attic white-ground alabastron, ca. 470 BC, British Museum, London"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trousers



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« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2012, 09:22:50 PM »

The women of modern day began to adorn the clothing of men, which has been understood as men's clothing for a very long time.

Are you really a Russian Old Believer masquerading as a new age Orthodox Christian?

What?
No... Not sure of the point... but...
I may be my own grandpa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu_Y1wQ923g&feature=fvwrel
Sorry just don't know the point of the question.  In my faith area, its where I'm at.

Women who are Russian Old Believers dress like those in 16th Century Russia.  The Russian Old Believers schismed from the Russian Orthodox Church due to reforms.

Many religious groups, religious sects and cultures force their women to dress conservatively, to not wear makeup or jewelry, etc.

Being part of an Orthodox Christian forum, I used Russian Old Believers because I didn't want to refer to you as a fundamentalist Mormon or any other religious group, religious sect or culture which requires women to dress conservatively.   angel
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« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2012, 09:37:31 PM »

Ah, so yesh, you are the expert on Biblical mores now.

Why don't you stop kvetching about the women and worry about yourself?

You don't mention someone else's sins in Confession, just yours. That example can be taken elsewhere.

And why the hell are we all supposed to be like Laura Wilder? Do you even know what you are talking about?

Should I stop wearing jackets, too?



I do worry about myself.... ehm... I don't know what you are talking about.

I was giving an example that Laura Ingalls, somebody in American History, consistently wore dresses even in the harshest American winters.   I was giving an example of how in our culture women did not adorn the clothing of men here... Until fairly recently.
You have a picture of Laura Ingalls in a dress in the snow?

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« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2012, 09:37:52 PM »

"Amazon wearing trousers and carrying a shield with an attached patterned cloth and a quiver. Ancient Greek Attic white-ground alabastron, ca. 470 BC, British Museum, London"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trousers





Yep. Biro, the thread was much more about pants and not only for women.
American women (Greek Orthodox church in America) and (Orthodox church in America) their culture is and has been for many centuries that women wore full length dresses, and men pants.

I'm not attacking you personally.  I was wondering about why it is so inconsistent.   The ROCOR churches insisted women wear dresses, whereas OCA and Greek do not (at least not the ones I've been to and the ones in the photos).
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« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2012, 09:39:21 PM »

Still, you haven't given us a reason we should care.

Your own backyard: best be cleaning it.

Read my OP for the scriptures of why you should care.  Not just on dresses.
The scriptures command women to not adorn the clothes of men, or men women.   In our culture, women dressed one way, and men another.  It was mainly after women's lib that women wore pants so often.
Yeah, that women's lib
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« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2012, 09:39:31 PM »

No, Yesh, it has not been 'for centuries,' because jeans became popular after their production by Levi Strauss for people who worked in mines. Late 1800s, tops.

Stop trying to conflate history with your personal chip on your shoulder.
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« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2012, 09:41:50 PM »

"Amazon wearing trousers and carrying a shield with an attached patterned cloth and a quiver. Ancient Greek Attic white-ground alabastron, ca. 470 BC, British Museum, London"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trousers





Yep. Biro, the thread was much more about pants and not only for women.
American women (Greek Orthodox church in America) and (Orthodox church in America) their culture is and has been for many centuries that women wore full length dresses, and men pants.

I'm not attacking you personally.  I was wondering about why it is so inconsistent.   The ROCOR churches insisted women wear dresses, whereas OCA and Greek do not (at least not the ones I've been to and the ones in the photos).
and up in North America the women wore pants for many centuries. Here's an engraving from two centuries ago
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« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2012, 09:43:22 PM »

Ah, so yesh, you are the expert on Biblical mores now.

Why don't you stop kvetching about the women and worry about yourself?

You don't mention someone else's sins in Confession, just yours. That example can be taken elsewhere.

And why the hell are we all supposed to be like Laura Wilder? Do you even know what you are talking about?

Should I stop wearing jackets, too?



I do worry about myself.... ehm... I don't know what you are talking about.

I was giving an example that Laura Ingalls, somebody in American History, consistently wore dresses even in the harshest American winters.   I was giving an example of how in our culture women did not adorn the clothing of men here... Until fairly recently.
You have a picture of Laura Ingalls in a dress in the snow?


LOL!!!

Ingalls family, typical American dress -



Closest thing I could find to "jackets snow etc."


Anyway, these are just a couple images of a FAMOUS American.  I don't know if it is the influence of women's lib in the churches or what.  Of course, the thread in the entirety was NOT JUST ABOUT DRESSES or women!
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« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2012, 09:44:45 PM »

So, Yesh, Orthodox only live in America?

America's standards are confined to the last 120 years? You do know we became a separate country in 1776?
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« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2012, 09:45:52 PM »

No, Yesh, it has not been 'for centuries,' because jeans became popular after their production by Levi Strauss for people who worked in mines. Late 1800s, tops.

Stop trying to conflate history with your personal chip on your shoulder.

Late 1800's was a bit over a century, and I'm pretty sure (but don't know for a fact) women were probably not in the mines often as most women did not work then.
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« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2012, 09:46:52 PM »

Still, you haven't given us a reason we should care.

Your own backyard: best be cleaning it.

Read my OP for the scriptures of why you should care.  Not just on dresses.
The scriptures command women to not adorn the clothes of men, or men women.   In our culture, women dressed one way, and men another.  It was mainly after women's lib that women wore pants so often.
Yeah, that women's lib


Good example of strong Christian women ialmisry.
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« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2012, 09:47:51 PM »

No, Yesh, it has not been 'for centuries,' because jeans became popular after their production by Levi Strauss for people who worked in mines. Late 1800s, tops.

Stop trying to conflate history with your personal chip on your shoulder.

Late 1800's was a bit over a century, and I'm pretty sure (but don't know for a fact) women were probably not in the mines often as most women did not work then.

But not 'many centuries' as you tried to make it sound.

So, everyone is supposed to dress like some of the pioneer women? Why?

You still haven't said what you're going to do about Scotsmen, who wear kilts.
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« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2012, 09:48:21 PM »

Ingalls family, typical American dress -
Not a single one has her head covered.
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