ironchapman
A bull of truth in the china shop of falsehoods.
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Faith: Inquirer into Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #90 on: May 03, 2012, 08:18:56 PM » |
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Maybe he means this guy?  |
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." --Bertrand Russell
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Achronos
What's so good about Cincinnati? You like it? You think Cincinnati is cool? I've never heard anyone say, 'I'm going to Cincinnati on vacation.'
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Hoplitarches
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Posts: 9,304
And we gave him the Rolling Stone cover?!
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« Reply #91 on: May 03, 2012, 08:21:24 PM » |
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With all due respect to Isa's children, I thought getting a globe for Christmas was one of the best things I ever got. I played with it for a long time, memorizing all the different countries, charting out voyages and wondering what dot of an island I wanted to live in.
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“Without music, life would be a mistake.”
“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.”
"Face the facts of being what you are, for that is what changes what you are."
"We see at once that the words absolute, divine, eternal, and so on do not express what is implied in them.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #92 on: May 03, 2012, 08:24:47 PM » |
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I don't understand all this emphasis on rationality to define personhood. Maybe there's some special RC-only definition of it that is being used here (the RCC tends to have its own way of talking that is inscrutable to those not with it), but it strikes me that this placing the rational capacity of man on some sort of pedestal whereby it forms the totality of what could described as "human" Yes, the reductionism and determinism of the Scholastics have given us such lovely things as separation of chrismation from baptism and its redefinition into "confirmation," which in turn gave us the anabaptists and "believers baptism," along with withholding the eucharist from the young and mentally infirm. It also contributed to its mandated celibacy and all the problems that came with that: the loss of reason was seen as very dangerous, even for a moment (and those who pursued this line of "reasoning" shuddered at the thought of lovemaking lasting any longer than the moment it took to deposit semen in its "natural and rational" end). It's part of the whole root rot of natural law taken over from the Stoicism of the Roman, particularly Latin, pagan aristocracy. has dangerous or at least disconcerting consequences. After all, isn't it by reference to some imagined "age of reason" (I think it's about 7 or 8 years old, right?) that they deny the life-giving body and blood of our Savior Jesus Christ to their own children? As though there is some magic switch that is flipped at 7 or 8...if that's the case, then where is the line between the "rational" animal and the irrational? I have certainly met more than my fair share of people who hold down jobs, publish in academic journals, and are generally successful in life and much, much older than 7 or 8, and yet seem to me to be completely irrational in many ways. Can I kill them because they may not in fact be people according to the almighty "rational being" standard?
papist will take out his Vatican approved hair splinter to deflect his presuppositions from reaching their rational conclusion. Again, there is no connection here, as we do not say that the ability to reason makes one a person. We say that the natural potential for reason makes one a person.  So I guess we can't trash the old lab tops, given the natural potential for reason in artificial intelligence makes them a person. Izzy who? are you not reading the thread? Yep. And unlike some  , I am understanding it as well. And as for reductionism, nope, we are not reductistic. You are, Izzy. who? You are the existentialist, who denies that there is such a thing as human nature. you are too busy imagining what something can be rather than paying attention to what it is that you don't know what existentialism is nor reductionism. But then a fish doesn't know it is wet. This reduces man to nothing more than a material object. Like I said, you don't have a clue. If you're recommending it, I know where it goes:  |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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ialmisry
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« Reply #93 on: May 03, 2012, 08:26:12 PM » |
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With all due respect to Isa's children, I thought getting a globe for Christmas was one of the best things I ever got. I played with it for a long time, memorizing all the different countries, charting out voyages and wondering what dot of an island I wanted to live in.
My brother requested one for Christmas, so he could be a man of the world. |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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dzheremi
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Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 3,051
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« Reply #94 on: May 03, 2012, 08:31:04 PM » |
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Every family should have a Bible, a dictionary, and a globe. Everything else is at best a luxury.  |
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ialmisry
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« Reply #95 on: May 03, 2012, 08:32:42 PM » |
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Yes, in my view the potential for reason is there, but defect or injury may be prohibiting the person from actualizing that potential. Yet, the potential remains, and consequently, the dignity of that person remains.
I have a bit of trouble understanding how the potential can still be there, it seems like you are separating the potential from the infirmity, although the infirmity is precisely attacking the potential. How can the potential still exist? It seems downright contradictory or at least confusing to me. Also, just for kicks. Evolution leads to certain species becoming more and more intelligent, and it is very possible that the great apes will someday exhibit intelligence on the level of humans. Would you say that we should not murder great apes since technically they have the potential to become like humans are because of evolution? Don't forget HAL  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_9000Don't unplug your lab top. |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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ialmisry
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« Reply #96 on: May 03, 2012, 08:38:50 PM » |
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What's this thread about again?
This evil planet. Oh, and for Izzy who? it's about how evil Catholics and Scholastics are.  We Catholics aren't evil at all. As for you Scholastics   |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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ialmisry
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« Reply #97 on: May 03, 2012, 08:40:10 PM » |
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With all due respect to Isa's children, I thought getting a globe for Christmas was one of the best things I ever got. I played with it for a long time, memorizing all the different countries, charting out voyages and wondering what dot of an island I wanted to live in.
I knew I liked you. |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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amartin
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« Reply #98 on: May 03, 2012, 08:42:28 PM » |
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Alas, the scholastic debates continue ad aburdum. The focus should be on spirituality. You will never be able to tie down what 'person' is because personality is a mystery. That is why Gautama Buddha refused to answer on the question. Such philosophizing is profitless...
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Aindriú
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« Reply #99 on: May 03, 2012, 08:44:25 PM » |
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With all due respect to Isa's children, I thought getting a globe for Christmas was one of the best things I ever got. I played with it for a long time, memorizing all the different countries, charting out voyages and wondering what dot of an island I wanted to live in.
I knew I liked you.  |
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 I'm going to need this. |
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Achronos
What's so good about Cincinnati? You like it? You think Cincinnati is cool? I've never heard anyone say, 'I'm going to Cincinnati on vacation.'
Site Supporter
Warned
Hoplitarches
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Faith: Building Steam with a Grain of Salt
Jurisdiction: Just as little is seen in pure light as in pure darkness.
Posts: 9,304
And we gave him the Rolling Stone cover?!
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« Reply #100 on: May 03, 2012, 08:50:16 PM » |
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With all due respect to Isa's children, I thought getting a globe for Christmas was one of the best things I ever got. I played with it for a long time, memorizing all the different countries, charting out voyages and wondering what dot of an island I wanted to live in.
My brother requested one for Christmas, so he could be a man of the world. All I needed to do was shrug. |
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“Without music, life would be a mistake.”
“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.”
"Face the facts of being what you are, for that is what changes what you are."
"We see at once that the words absolute, divine, eternal, and so on do not express what is implied in them.
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dzheremi
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Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 3,051
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« Reply #101 on: May 03, 2012, 08:54:48 PM » |
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Wow, amartin. That's deep, maaaaaaaaaaaan. Groovy.
Isa...all of Papist's attempts to give you a nickname has got me wondering: Are there diminutive versions of names in Arabic? I have known Mohameds who go by "Mo", but I mean more like how in Russian Dimitry becomes "Dimka", Alexander "Sasha" (I never got an explanation for that one in my 6-7 years of Russian study...), Vladimir "Vova", etc.
Just going from the names of people I know from church, it seems unlikely. There would of course be theological problems in calling Nabil "Nabi" or Maria "Mari"...
(Eh, why not...this thread can't get more off topic, right?)
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orthonorm
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« Reply #102 on: May 03, 2012, 08:55:57 PM » |
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Wow, amartin. That's deep, maaaaaaaaaaaan. Groovy.
Isa...all of Papist's attempts to give you a nickname has got me wondering: Are there diminutive versions of names in Arabic? I have known Mohameds who go by "Mo", but I mean more like how in Russian Dimitry becomes "Dimka", Alexander "Sasha" (I never got an explanation for that one in my 6-7 years of Russian study...), Vladimir "Vova", etc.
Just going from the names of people I know from church, it seems unlikely. There would of course be theological problems in calling Nabil "Nabi" or Maria "Mari"...
(Eh, why not...this thread can't get more off topic, right?)
It's less imaginative than you can't imagine. |
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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dzheremi
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Posts: 3,051
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« Reply #103 on: May 03, 2012, 08:56:58 PM » |
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I have no idea what that means, Orthonorm. Sorry.
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Aindriú
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« Reply #104 on: May 03, 2012, 08:57:33 PM » |
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I have no idea what that means, Orthonorm. Sorry.
lol |
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I'm going to need this. |
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ialmisry
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« Reply #105 on: May 03, 2012, 09:33:34 PM » |
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Wow, amartin. That's deep, maaaaaaaaaaaan. Groovy.
Isa...all of Papist's attempts to give you a nickname has got me wondering: Are there diminutive versions of names in Arabic? I have known Mohameds who go by "Mo", but I mean more like how in Russian Dimitry becomes "Dimka", Alexander "Sasha" (I never got an explanation for that one in my 6-7 years of Russian study...), Vladimir "Vova", etc.
Just going from the names of people I know from church, it seems unlikely. There would of course be theological problems in calling Nabil "Nabi" or Maria "Mari"...
(Eh, why not...this thread can't get more off topic, right?)
Many ways, as a matter of fact. Soni, for instance, is the nickname for Athanasius. |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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ialmisry
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« Reply #106 on: May 03, 2012, 09:42:11 PM » |
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Alas, the scholastic debates continue ad aburdum. The focus should be on spirituality. You will never be able to tie down what 'person' is because personality is a mystery. That is why Gautama Buddha refused to answer on the question. Such philosophizing is profitless...
Siddhartha refused to answer because he did not have the answer. |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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dzheremi
Archon
Offline
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 3,051
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« Reply #107 on: May 03, 2012, 09:49:33 PM » |
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Wow, amartin. That's deep, maaaaaaaaaaaan. Groovy.
Isa...all of Papist's attempts to give you a nickname has got me wondering: Are there diminutive versions of names in Arabic? I have known Mohameds who go by "Mo", but I mean more like how in Russian Dimitry becomes "Dimka", Alexander "Sasha" (I never got an explanation for that one in my 6-7 years of Russian study...), Vladimir "Vova", etc.
Just going from the names of people I know from church, it seems unlikely. There would of course be theological problems in calling Nabil "Nabi" or Maria "Mari"...
(Eh, why not...this thread can't get more off topic, right?)
Many ways, as a matter of fact. Soni, for instance, is the nickname for Athanasius. Ah. Interesting and good to know. Thanks. (I knew I'd get some actual information out of this thread!) |
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yeshuaisiam
Archon
 Online
Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 2,609
The best things in life are not things.
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« Reply #108 on: May 03, 2012, 09:50:58 PM » |
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Turducken breakfast of champions!  I have this theory. If God didn't want us to eat animals, why did he make them taste so good? |
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« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 09:52:02 PM by yeshuaisiam »
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JamesRottnek
Taxiarches
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Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 4,539
I am Bibleman
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« Reply #109 on: May 04, 2012, 03:32:14 AM » |
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I don't understand all this emphasis on rationality to define personhood. Maybe there's some special RC-only definition of it that is being used here (the RCC tends to have its own way of talking that is inscrutable to those not with it), but it strikes me that this placing the rational capacity of man on some sort of pedestal whereby it forms the totality of what could described as "human" has dangerous or at least disconcerting consequences. After all, isn't it by reference to some imagined "age of reason" (I think it's about 7 or 8 years old, right?) that they deny the life-giving body and blood of our Savior Jesus Christ to their own children? As though there is some magic switch that is flipped at 7 or 8...if that's the case, then where is the line between the "rational" animal and the irrational? I have certainly met more than my fair share of people who hold down jobs, publish in academic journals, and are generally successful in life and much, much older than 7 or 8, and yet seem to me to be completely irrational in many ways. Can I kill them because they may not in fact be people according to the almighty "rational being" standard?
No connection there. We recognize all human beings as persons, becuase they all have the potential for reason, even if they cannot at a given moment actualize that potential. Thus, children, injured persons, persons with mental diseases, etc. are all still persons. What is required for "reason" though? It seems to me that many animals act with a great deal of reason, often in ways far superior to most humans. |
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I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice. Can you guess what it is?
The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.
American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.
Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
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Schultz
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« Reply #110 on: May 07, 2012, 05:14:47 PM » |
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In honor of this thread, I'm making a pork tenderloin tagine (in a tagine, naturally) for dinner tonight. It's fusion night at my house  |
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"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #111 on: May 07, 2012, 05:28:36 PM » |
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pig,
Unbelievable! They roll around in their own feces. One of the most evil animals on the planet. Used by Satanists in their worship. And that's the pig's fault? Seriously, why not attack the butcher shops with your Mohammedan friends? |
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O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #112 on: May 07, 2012, 05:30:32 PM » |
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Acts 10:13
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
13And there came a voice to him: Arise, Peter; kill and eat.
Christians are not trapped by the old law anymore. If you don't want to eat pork, no one will force you to, but Christians are neither Talmudic Jews, nor Muslims. Christ set us free.
The Acts of the Apostles were written by Luke who was the personal secretary of Saul of Tarsus. In reality, its all mostly about Saul and not the other Apostles. I do not trust what that book says about the Holy Rock Simon bar Jonas. You should wear a name tag saying, "Hi, I'm a heretic." |
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O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #113 on: May 07, 2012, 05:32:21 PM » |
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Unbelievable! They roll around in their own feces. One of the most evil animals on the planet. Used by Satanists in their worship.
Do you and others roll around in the mud when your Rev. Day drives up in his Rolls-Royce? Who is that? I am not aware of any reverends after the great apostasy occured. The leader of your cult. He's on the website we found. How do you get around the fact that none of his claims are accepted by anyone else outside the circle? Lol wow. What cult is this? Can you link me to the website please? I would like to join them... You already did. How long is this going to be funny? Even bad comedians know to change riffs once in a while. That's what separates the comedians from the trolls. |
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O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #114 on: May 07, 2012, 05:34:39 PM » |
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They are very intelligent animals, some studies say they are more intelligent than dogs.
Then why would you kill them? That is murder... Kill a pig and you're a murderer; kill many pigs and you're a farmer; kill them all and cook them and you're a god. or just Southern. |
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O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #115 on: May 07, 2012, 05:35:34 PM » |
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They are very intelligent animals, some studies say they are more intelligent than dogs.
Then why would you kill them? That is murder... Murder is the killing of a person. Dogs aren't persons. Whoa there, Papist. If we agree on something more than twice in a day, what will that do the space-time continuum? |
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O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #116 on: May 07, 2012, 05:36:34 PM » |
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They are very intelligent animals, some studies say they are more intelligent than dogs.
Then why would you kill them? That is murder... Murder is the killing of a person. Dogs aren't persons. What is a "person"? A being with a rational nature. Does that include the mentally disabled? Absolutely. Many mentally disabled persons are far more rational than the mentally-abled, from the real, spiritual point of view. |
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O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #117 on: May 07, 2012, 05:39:05 PM » |
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What's this thread about again?
I'm pretty sure it's about how barbecue is a gift from God. |
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O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #118 on: May 07, 2012, 05:40:48 PM » |
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This thread is an evil planet.
This is an evil thred. This is a misspelled word thred Yet another evil consequence of scholasticism, misspelling. |
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O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #119 on: May 07, 2012, 06:46:38 PM » |
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This thread is an evil planet.
This is an evil thred. This is a misspelled word thred Yet another evil consequence of scholasticism, misspelling. yeah, they misspell "filio." |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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dzheremi
Archon
Offline
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 3,051
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« Reply #120 on: May 07, 2012, 07:16:39 PM » |
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This is an evil filio? Eh...if you say so, Isa...
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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Moderator
Taxiarches
Offline
Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 5,427
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« Reply #121 on: May 07, 2012, 08:09:14 PM » |
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Wow, amartin. That's deep, maaaaaaaaaaaan. Groovy.
Isa...all of Papist's attempts to give you a nickname has got me wondering: Are there diminutive versions of names in Arabic? I have known Mohameds who go by "Mo", but I mean more like how in Russian Dimitry becomes "Dimka", Alexander "Sasha" (I never got an explanation for that one in my 6-7 years of Russian study...), Vladimir "Vova", etc.
Just going from the names of people I know from church, it seems unlikely. There would of course be theological problems in calling Nabil "Nabi" or Maria "Mari"...
(Eh, why not...this thread can't get more off topic, right?)
Folks, I am locking this thread until further notice as there are couple of issues that I plan to discuss with the moderator team. Second Chance |
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