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Author Topic: This is an Evil Planet  (Read 3038 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2012, 09:13:05 PM »

Amartin, if you are an 'Original Monotheist,' do you worship Ra?

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« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2012, 10:08:24 PM »

If loving pork is wrong, I don't wanna be right!

You love pigs huh. Well as the saying goes, "You are what you eat."

LOL. What a self-righteous ass.

Only the heathens cuss with filthy language and eat filthy flesh.
But damn if pork chops aren't delicious.
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« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2012, 10:42:54 PM »

This thread has turned into sheer heathenism.
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« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2012, 10:46:16 PM »

And to think: this is one of the better parts of the internet!
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« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2012, 10:47:29 PM »

And to think: this is one of the better parts of the internet!

You mean less evil. Or is that google?
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« Reply #50 on: May 02, 2012, 10:54:19 PM »

And to think: this is one of the better parts of the internet!

Yes, it is very sad.
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« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2012, 01:11:56 AM »

I have always said that God became man that man might be allowed to eat carne adovada. Smiley

Perhaps, but not on Wednesdays and Fridays!  Angry

The troll has triumphed and caused me to look at my meatless meal with great disdain.

Papist is a Catholic; he can eat pork during Lent.
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« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2012, 01:51:39 AM »

I love meat so much that I wish I had two stomachs so that I could eat twice as much meat, leading to the death of twice as many tasty animals Smiley
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« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2012, 02:16:25 AM »

amartin, please read this.

http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/all-dogs-go-to-heaven/
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« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2012, 10:29:10 AM »

pig,

Unbelievable! They roll around in their own feces.

Have you ever seen a pig?

Pigs are, as most mammals, very clean animals. They take care of their appearance and hygiene. These are humans who force them to roll in their feces. If pigs have much free space they don't do it.

They are very intelligent animals, some studies say they are more intelligent than dogs.
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« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2012, 11:40:39 AM »


They are very intelligent animals, some studies say they are more intelligent than dogs.


Then why would you kill them? That is murder...
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« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2012, 11:42:55 AM »


They are very intelligent animals, some studies say they are more intelligent than dogs.


Then why would you kill them? That is murder...

Kill a pig and you're a murderer; kill many pigs and you're a farmer; kill them all and cook them and you're a god.

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« Reply #57 on: May 03, 2012, 11:44:34 AM »


They are very intelligent animals, some studies say they are more intelligent than dogs.


Then why would you kill them? That is murder...

To gain their power, duh. Don't you know anything?
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« Reply #58 on: May 03, 2012, 11:59:30 AM »


They are very intelligent animals, some studies say they are more intelligent than dogs.


Then why would you kill them? That is murder...
Murder is the killing of a person. Dogs aren't persons.
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« Reply #59 on: May 03, 2012, 12:09:24 PM »


They are very intelligent animals, some studies say they are more intelligent than dogs.


Then why would you kill them? That is murder...

For pork.
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« Reply #60 on: May 03, 2012, 05:55:17 PM »


They are very intelligent animals, some studies say they are more intelligent than dogs.


Then why would you kill them? That is murder...
Murder is the killing of a person. Dogs aren't persons.
What is a "person"?
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« Reply #61 on: May 03, 2012, 05:57:39 PM »

That was an interesting read. Smiley
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« Reply #62 on: May 03, 2012, 06:07:46 PM »


They are very intelligent animals, some studies say they are more intelligent than dogs.


Then why would you kill them? That is murder...
Murder is the killing of a person. Dogs aren't persons.
What is a "person"?
A being with a rational nature.
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« Reply #63 on: May 03, 2012, 06:14:21 PM »


They are very intelligent animals, some studies say they are more intelligent than dogs.


Then why would you kill them? That is murder...
Murder is the killing of a person. Dogs aren't persons.
What is a "person"?
A being with a rational nature.

Does that include the mentally disabled?
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« Reply #64 on: May 03, 2012, 06:15:41 PM »


They are very intelligent animals, some studies say they are more intelligent than dogs.


Then why would you kill them? That is murder...
Murder is the killing of a person. Dogs aren't persons.
What is a "person"?
A being with a rational nature.
No.
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« Reply #65 on: May 03, 2012, 06:18:27 PM »


They are very intelligent animals, some studies say they are more intelligent than dogs.


Then why would you kill them? That is murder...
Murder is the killing of a person. Dogs aren't persons.
What is a "person"?
A being with a rational nature.
No.
Yes.
BTW, You remind me of my teenage students. "NOOOOOOO. NOOOOOOO. NOOOOOO." You make me laugh Little Izzy.
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« Reply #66 on: May 03, 2012, 06:19:12 PM »


They are very intelligent animals, some studies say they are more intelligent than dogs.


Then why would you kill them? That is murder...
Murder is the killing of a person. Dogs aren't persons.
What is a "person"?
A being with a rational nature.

Does that include the mentally disabled?
Of course. They have a rational nature. They instantiate a rational nature. They just are prevented from actualizing that power. Though potential to do so is there. So yes, they are persons.
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« Reply #67 on: May 03, 2012, 06:37:54 PM »


They are very intelligent animals, some studies say they are more intelligent than dogs.


Then why would you kill them? That is murder...
Murder is the killing of a person. Dogs aren't persons.
What is a "person"?
A being with a rational nature.
No.
Yes.
BTW, You remind me of my teenage students. "NOOOOOOO. NOOOOOOO. NOOOOOO." You make me laugh Little Izzy.
Who?

A person is an individual human being.
http://jbburnett.com/resources/lossky/lossky-person.pdf
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?rlz=1T4TSHB_enUS238US238&q=cache:gYr9CBZZuIMJ:http://jbburnett.com/resources/lossky/lossky-person.pdf%2BLossky%2BPerson&gs_upl=0l0l1l18621760lllllllllll0&hl=en&ct=clnk

http://jbburnett.com/resources/lossky/lossky-person.pdf
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« Reply #68 on: May 03, 2012, 06:42:52 PM »

NOOOOO NOOOO NOOOOOO. Wink Kidding.

Little Izzy, what is an individual human being? Answer: A rational animal.
But I would like to add that there are persons that are not human, so your definition is not all encompassing. Angels are persons, but not human. Thus, "a being with a rational nature" is a better definition of person.

Enter little Izzy: "NOOOOO. NOOOOO. NOOOOO. Map. Map. Map. Map"
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« Reply #69 on: May 03, 2012, 07:02:13 PM »

I don't understand all this emphasis on rationality to define personhood. Maybe there's some special RC-only definition of it that is being used here (the RCC tends to have its own way of talking that is inscrutable to those not with it), but it strikes me that this placing the rational capacity of man on some sort of pedestal whereby it forms the totality of what could described as "human" has dangerous or at least disconcerting consequences. After all, isn't it by reference to some imagined "age of reason" (I think it's about 7 or 8 years old, right?) that they deny the life-giving body and blood of our Savior Jesus Christ to their own children? As though there is some magic switch that is flipped at 7 or 8...if that's the case, then where is the line between the "rational" animal and the irrational? I have certainly met more than my fair share of people who hold down jobs, publish in academic journals, and are generally successful in life and much, much older than 7 or 8, and yet seem to me to be completely irrational in many ways. Can I kill them because they may not in fact be people according to the almighty "rational being" standard?
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« Reply #70 on: May 03, 2012, 07:15:47 PM »

I don't understand all this emphasis on rationality to define personhood. Maybe there's some special RC-only definition of it that is being used here (the RCC tends to have its own way of talking that is inscrutable to those not with it), but it strikes me that this placing the rational capacity of man on some sort of pedestal whereby it forms the totality of what could described as "human" has dangerous or at least disconcerting consequences. After all, isn't it by reference to some imagined "age of reason" (I think it's about 7 or 8 years old, right?) that they deny the life-giving body and blood of our Savior Jesus Christ to their own children? As though there is some magic switch that is flipped at 7 or 8...if that's the case, then where is the line between the "rational" animal and the irrational? I have certainly met more than my fair share of people who hold down jobs, publish in academic journals, and are generally successful in life and much, much older than 7 or 8, and yet seem to me to be completely irrational in many ways. Can I kill them because they may not in fact be people according to the almighty "rational being" standard?
No connection there. We recognize all human beings as persons, becuase they all have the potential for reason, even if they cannot at a given moment actualize that potential. Thus, children, injured persons, persons with mental diseases, etc. are all still persons.
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« Reply #71 on: May 03, 2012, 07:23:12 PM »

If that is the case then why are you so against abortion, seeing that a fetus is not capable of rationality at all and their rational nature has not yet been developed? I find your definition of a person as being slightly disturbing, Papist.
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« Reply #72 on: May 03, 2012, 07:24:44 PM »

I don't know, Papist...that makes sense (or I could you could say, it's rational), but I do not think I like the implications. It seems to me that the only essential of being a person is having been born a human being, and not a trilobite or a salamander or something else. Go beyond that and you get into arguments of consciousness and reasoning capacities, which of course vary widely not only from person to person, but also within a single person's lifetime, and are subject to all kinds of external and internal influences from a person's cultural background, disposition, etc.
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« Reply #73 on: May 03, 2012, 07:27:34 PM »

If that is the case then why are you so against abortion, seeing that a fetus is not capable of rationality at all and their rational nature has not yet been developed? I find your definition of a person as being slightly disturbing, Papist.

James, note that Papist included the phrase "potential for reason". I think it is fair to assume that a fetus, as it will be one day a baby if it is not aborted before it has that chance, would at least then be thought of as having the "potential for reason" at some point in the future, and hence the murder of the fetus is a deprivation of that potential, and a deprivation of its essential "personhood". (I hope I've understood your correctly, Papist; if not, please explain what you meant.)
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« Reply #74 on: May 03, 2012, 07:28:19 PM »

I don't know, Papist...that makes sense (or I could you could say, it's rational), but I do not think I like the implications. It seems to me that the only essential of being a person is having been born a human being, and not a trilobite or a salamander or something else. Go beyond that and you get into arguments of consciousness and reasoning capacities, which of course vary widely not only from person to person, but also within a single person's lifetime, and are subject to all kinds of external and internal influences from a person's cultural background, disposition, etc.

First, I don't agree with your assessment above, and I'm not saying that to be an a--. We know that normal human person should be able to reason in a way an animal cannot. Some are better at this than others. Some are worse. All this means is that some human beings more perfectly instantiate this than others. That does not mean one is superior to another, because the cut off line is potential to reason. That is it.
Second, if you decide that the definition of a person is "human being" then you exclude Angels.
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« Reply #75 on: May 03, 2012, 07:29:28 PM »

If that is the case then why are you so against abortion, seeing that a fetus is not capable of rationality at all and their rational nature has not yet been developed? I find your definition of a person as being slightly disturbing, Papist.

James, note that Papist included the phrase "potential for reason". I think it is fair to assume that a fetus, as it will be one day a baby if it is not aborted before it has that chance, would at least then be thought of as having the "potential for reason" at some point in the future, and hence the murder of the fetus is a deprivation of that potential, and a deprivation of its essential "personhood". (I hope I've understood your correctly, Papist; if not, please explain what you meant.)
Well, yes, a person's essential personhood is rooted in their potential for reason. If a being has the natural potential for reason, then it is a person.
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« Reply #76 on: May 03, 2012, 07:33:42 PM »

hold on
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« Reply #77 on: May 03, 2012, 07:34:56 PM »

I don't understand all this emphasis on rationality to define personhood. Maybe there's some special RC-only definition of it that is being used here (the RCC tends to have its own way of talking that is inscrutable to those not with it), but it strikes me that this placing the rational capacity of man on some sort of pedestal whereby it forms the totality of what could described as "human"
Yes, the reductionism and determinism of the Scholastics have given us such lovely things as separation of chrismation from baptism and its redefinition into "confirmation," which in turn gave us the anabaptists and "believers baptism," along with withholding the eucharist from the young and mentally infirm.  It also contributed to its mandated celibacy and all the problems that came with that: the loss of reason was seen as very dangerous, even for a moment (and those who pursued this line of "reasoning" shuddered at the thought of lovemaking lasting any longer than the moment it took to deposit semen in its "natural and rational" end).
It's part of the whole root rot of natural law taken over from the Stoicism of the Roman, particularly Latin, pagan aristocracy.

has dangerous or at least disconcerting consequences. After all, isn't it by reference to some imagined "age of reason" (I think it's about 7 or 8 years old, right?) that they deny the life-giving body and blood of our Savior Jesus Christ to their own children? As though there is some magic switch that is flipped at 7 or 8...if that's the case, then where is the line between the "rational" animal and the irrational? I have certainly met more than my fair share of people who hold down jobs, publish in academic journals, and are generally successful in life and much, much older than 7 or 8, and yet seem to me to be completely irrational in many ways. Can I kill them because they may not in fact be people according to the almighty "rational being" standard?
papist will take out his Vatican approved hair splinter to deflect his presuppositions from reaching their rational conclusion.
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« Reply #78 on: May 03, 2012, 07:37:24 PM »

If that is the case then why are you so against abortion, seeing that a fetus is not capable of rationality at all and their rational nature has not yet been developed? I find your definition of a person as being slightly disturbing, Papist.

James, note that Papist included the phrase "potential for reason". I think it is fair to assume that a fetus, as it will be one day a baby if it is not aborted before it has that chance, would at least then be thought of as having the "potential for reason" at some point in the future, and hence the murder of the fetus is a deprivation of that potential, and a deprivation of its essential "personhood". (I hope I've understood your correctly, Papist; if not, please explain what you meant.)
Well, yes, a person's essential personhood is rooted in their potential for reason. If a being has the natural potential for reason, then it is a person.
No, personhood is rooted in communion, which is why angels have a defective personhood (each angel is a universe unto itself), and God has perfect personhood, or rather Personhood.
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« Reply #79 on: May 03, 2012, 07:37:35 PM »

What's this thread about again?
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« Reply #80 on: May 03, 2012, 07:40:08 PM »

I don't understand all this emphasis on rationality to define personhood. Maybe there's some special RC-only definition of it that is being used here (the RCC tends to have its own way of talking that is inscrutable to those not with it), but it strikes me that this placing the rational capacity of man on some sort of pedestal whereby it forms the totality of what could described as "human"
Yes, the reductionism and determinism of the Scholastics have given us such lovely things as separation of chrismation from baptism and its redefinition into "confirmation," which in turn gave us the anabaptists and "believers baptism," along with withholding the eucharist from the young and mentally infirm.  It also contributed to its mandated celibacy and all the problems that came with that: the loss of reason was seen as very dangerous, even for a moment (and those who pursued this line of "reasoning" shuddered at the thought of lovemaking lasting any longer than the moment it took to deposit semen in its "natural and rational" end).
It's part of the whole root rot of natural law taken over from the Stoicism of the Roman, particularly Latin, pagan aristocracy.

has dangerous or at least disconcerting consequences. After all, isn't it by reference to some imagined "age of reason" (I think it's about 7 or 8 years old, right?) that they deny the life-giving body and blood of our Savior Jesus Christ to their own children? As though there is some magic switch that is flipped at 7 or 8...if that's the case, then where is the line between the "rational" animal and the irrational? I have certainly met more than my fair share of people who hold down jobs, publish in academic journals, and are generally successful in life and much, much older than 7 or 8, and yet seem to me to be completely irrational in many ways. Can I kill them because they may not in fact be people according to the almighty "rational being" standard?
papist will take out his Vatican approved hair splinter to deflect his presuppositions from reaching their rational conclusion.
Again, there is no connection here, as we do not say that the ability to reason makes one a person. We say that the natural potential for reason makes one a person. Izzy, are you not reading the thread?
And as for reductionism, nope, we are not reductistic. You are, Izzy. You are the existentialist, who denies that there is such a thing as human nature. This reduces man to nothing more than a material object. Nice try though. Oh, and for your sake, here is a map:
http://www.bookwormlibrary.us/graphics/illustrations_notes/maps/oz_map_mashup_large.jpg
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« Reply #81 on: May 03, 2012, 07:40:46 PM »

What's this thread about again?
This evil planet. Oh, and for Izzy it's about how evil Catholics and Scholastics are.  Grin
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« Reply #82 on: May 03, 2012, 07:42:23 PM »

Well, yes, a person's essential personhood is rooted in their potential for reason. If a being has the natural potential for reason, then it is a person.

Well what if the fetus is going to be born with a mental disorder? Would it still have the potential for reason? What was your view on the mentally infirm again?
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« Reply #83 on: May 03, 2012, 07:44:03 PM »

Well, yes, a person's essential personhood is rooted in their potential for reason. If a being has the natural potential for reason, then it is a person.

Well what if the fetus is going to be born with a mental disorder? Would it still have the potential for reason? What was your view on the mentally infirm again?
Yes, in my view the potential for reason is there, but defect or injury may be prohibiting the person from actualizing that potential. Yet, the potential remains, and consequently, the dignity of that person remains.
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« Reply #84 on: May 03, 2012, 07:44:16 PM »

No connection there. We recognize all human beings as persons, becuase they all have the potential for reason, even if they cannot at a given moment actualize that potential. Thus, children, injured persons, persons with mental diseases, etc. are all still persons.
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« Reply #85 on: May 03, 2012, 07:45:26 PM »

This thread is an evil planet.
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« Reply #86 on: May 03, 2012, 07:46:47 PM »

This thread is an evil planet.
This is an evil thred.
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« Reply #87 on: May 03, 2012, 07:50:15 PM »

Yes, in my view the potential for reason is there, but defect or injury may be prohibiting the person from actualizing that potential. Yet, the potential remains, and consequently, the dignity of that person remains.

I have a bit of trouble understanding how the potential can still be there, it seems like you are separating the potential from the infirmity, although the infirmity is precisely attacking the potential. How can the potential still exist? It seems downright contradictory or at least confusing to me. Also, just for kicks. Evolution leads to certain species becoming more and more intelligent, and it is very possible that the great apes will someday exhibit intelligence on the level of humans. Would you say that we should not murder great apes since technically they have the potential to become like humans are because of evolution?
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« Reply #88 on: May 03, 2012, 07:57:55 PM »


http://books.google.com/books?id=taKkaFzv8BsC&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=Mr.+Bill+lobotomy&source=bl&ots=0vRTW5Maw_&sig=WUutYhVqTI_p1fzKdny3QPOGObY&hl=en#v=onepage&q=Mr.%20Bill%20lobotomy&f=false
Into the Heart of the Mind: An American Quest for Artificial Intelligence

Little Izzy,

who?
what is an individual human being? Answer: A rational animal.

wrong answer.
But I would like to add that there are persons that are not human, so your definition is not all encompassing. Angels are persons, but not human. Thus, "a being with a rational nature" is a better definition of person.

Enter little Izzy
who?
"NOOOOO. NOOOOO. NOOOOO.
Mr. Bill again?

Map. Map. Map. Map"

a fantasy map of a non-existent place.  No wonder you are lost amidst your fantasies about categories that have no objective existence.

Humans are beings with reason.  Not rational beings.  
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« Reply #89 on: May 03, 2012, 07:59:17 PM »

This thread is an evil planet.
This is an evil thred.
This is a misspelled word
thred
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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