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Author Topic: Relating 1 John 1:8 to 1 Peter 1:13-16  (Read 226 times) Average Rating: 0
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Protoman2050
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« on: April 25, 2012, 01:48:58 PM »

Today, me and Matt were discussing the differences between Orthodoxy and Reformed. I was saying that the 1689 London Baptist Confession severely limits the effects of the divine energies of grace, as it contains this statement:

"This will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone in the state of glory only."

Interestingly, "the state of glory" is never defined spatio-temporally. So it could mean after we fall asleep, or when we achieve perfect theosis. But everyone who follows the Confession implies the former. So I strongly believe Reformed theology is pseudo-Gnosticism, with its contempt for this life.

It references Eph 4:13, which states:

"...until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ."

Considering St Paul was talking about how the nature of equipping the Body of Christ for good works, how on earth can you exegete "no living person can ever be sinless" from it?

St John wrote in 1 John 1:8, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us," which to me means he's saying "if we say we're impeccable, we're lying." 1 John was written to quench the Gnostic heresy that was infiltrating the Church.

Sinlessness does not equal impeccability. Christ was sinless, not due to impeccability, but that His divine will completely overrode His human will; He had the ability to sin and was able to be tempted (or else how could He appropriate our humanity?), but He preferred not to.

Apparently St Peter was exhorting us to do the impossible in 1 Peter 1:13-16, which references Ezekiel 36:27, so God was as well.

"Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written, “YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY.”

I told Matt this: the few that attain complete sanctification/theosis in this life will be intimately aware of their need for His divine energies of mercy and grace, because they never know if they will sin, so they will always be needed from their perspective. They will be the ones who cling to the Cross most tightly of all, even though they need it no longer, as they have allowed God's work to be completed in their lives.

We were also discussing God's sovereignty vs our freedom, and he completely agreed with Bishop Elias (Minatios)'s sermon. http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/predestination.aspx

He literally admitted that the only reason he's not Orthodox is he doesn't like the ceremonialness of it and enjoys more laity participation. He's essentially Orthodox in his theology, Evangelical in his practice. I've never agreed with taking the Eucharist in hand, because it implies we're taking His life, not that He gave it. John 10:18.

Do you have any practical advice for living the Orthodox life? What Psalms should I meditate on? I really like Psalm 28, as my old churches put me in the same situation, so it speaks to me. 

I already meditate on the Jesus Prayer during free time. Are you supposed to cry when you do this? I felt my eyes watering after a while the first time.

How does hesychasm differ from Roman Catholic lectio divina? I know the Emergents like Rob Bell have turned it into a direct violation of Matthew 6:7 by corrupting it into centering prayer.

I've already emailed my priest about this, but in the meantime, I'll be happy to hear from you.
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« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2012, 03:53:42 PM »

Today, me and Matt were discussing the differences between Orthodoxy and Reformed. I was saying that the 1689 London Baptist Confession severely limits the effects of the divine energies of grace, as it contains this statement:

"This will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone in the state of glory only."

St paul refers to the corruptible bodies that we have in this life as "the body of this death" and about the "sin that dwelleth in me" in Romans 7. As long as we are in our mortal bodies we will always have to struggle with sin, but we can still be victorious in our struggles by cooperating with divine grace.


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Christ was sinless, not due to impeccability, but that His divine human will completely overrode conformed to His human divine will; He had the ability to sin and was able to be tempted (or else how could He appropriate our humanity?), but He preferred not to.

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I told Matt this: the few that attain complete sanctification/theosis in this life will be intimately aware of their need for His divine energies of mercy and grace, because they never know if they will sin, so they will always be needed from their perspective. They will be the ones who cling to the Cross most tightly of all, even though they need it no longer, as they have allowed God's work to be completed in their lives.

No one is ever without need for God's energies or the work of the cross.

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He literally admitted that the only reason he's not Orthodox is he doesn't like the ceremonialness of it and enjoys more laity participation. He's essentially Orthodox in his theology, Evangelical in his practice.

The "ceremonialness" is a reflection of our belief, and there is should be laity participation throughout the liturgy. The anaphora begins with the priest saying to the congregation "Let us give tanks unto the Lord!" (thanks="Eucharist" in greek") to which the people reply "It is meet..." (I remember hearing somewhere it used to be just "It is meet" but then was lengthened to the present form).

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I've never agreed with taking the Eucharist in hand,

We used to do this.

St Cyril of Jerusalem
21.  In approachingtherefore, come not with thy wrists extended, or thy fingers spread; but make thy left hand a throne for the right, as for that which is to receive a King.  And having hollowed thy palm, receive the Body of Christ, saying over it, Amen.  So then after having carefully hallowed thine eyes by the touch of the Holy Body, partake of it; giving heed lest thou lose any portion thereof; for whatever thou losest, is evidently a loss to thee as it were from one of thine own members.  For tell me, if any one gave thee grains of gold, wouldest thou not hold them with all carefulness, being on thy guard against losing any of them, and suffering loss?  Wilt thou not then much more carefully keep watch, that not a crumb fall from thee of what is more precious than gold and precious stones?
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And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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