I do not believe in shaking hands.

[amartin]

I especially will not shake hands with the heathen. This is an absolutely outrageous custom. If you do not know them and they are most likely not even spiritual, but are rather like the average citizen of the kingdom of darkness, then why on earth would the servants of God want to shake hands with them? Handshakes transmit energies into the bodies. Also, most of the heathen males masturbate daily with their right hand. But if you do not shake hands with them then they will not accept you into their dark world of "professionalism" (i.e. service of demons). They even have a whole way of judging you by your handshakes, whether it was firm and assertive and trustworthy, or whether it was weak and that you are therefore somehow a lesser person. This is absolutely crazy! Does anyone else believe this?

[vamrat]

But if you don't shake hands, then how do you stink-palm people you don't like?

[Ortho_cat]

[Asteriktos]

That icon brings the lulz somethin serious.  

[LBK]

WIN!!

Indeed a picture is worth a thousand words.

[Timon]

I especially will not shake hands with the heathen. This is an absolutely outrageous custom. If you do not know them and they are most likely not even spiritual, but are rather like the average citizen of the kingdom of darkness, then why on earth would the servants of God want to shake hands with them? Handshakes transmit energies into the bodies. Also, most of the heathen males masturbate daily with their right hand. But if you do not shake hands with them then they will not accept you into their dark world of "professionalism" (i.e. service of demons). They even have a whole way of judging you by your handshakes, whether it was firm and assertive and trustworthy, or whether it was weak and that you are therefore somehow a lesser person. This is absolutely crazy! Does anyone else believe this?

lol

[Ansgar]

I especially will not shake hands with the heathen. This is an absolutely outrageous custom. If you do not know them and they are most likely not even spiritual, but are rather like the average citizen of the kingdom of darkness, then why on earth would the servants of God want to shake hands with them? Handshakes transmit energies into the bodies. Also, most of the heathen males masturbate daily with their right hand. But if you do not shake hands with them then they will not accept you into their dark world of "professionalism" (i.e. service of demons). They even have a whole way of judging you by your handshakes, whether it was firm and assertive and trustworthy, or whether it was weak and that you are therefore somehow a lesser person. This is absolutely crazy! Does anyone else believe this?

Well, you are going to have some major problems in the western world. I can't speak for "original monotheism" (whatever that is) but from a christian point of view, I would say that it is our duty to speak the truth in love. In most parts of the world (including the West) it will be very hard to show love if you refuse to have physical contact with them, and I say this as a dane. We must remember that Christ himself healed the roman guard after Peter had cut his ear off.

[yeshuaisiam]

I especially will not shake hands with the heathen. This is an absolutely outrageous custom. If you do not know them and they are most likely not even spiritual, but are rather like the average citizen of the kingdom of darkness, then why on earth would the servants of God want to shake hands with them? Handshakes transmit energies into the bodies. Also, most of the heathen males masturbate daily with their right hand. But if you do not shake hands with them then they will not accept you into their dark world of "professionalism" (i.e. service of demons). They even have a whole way of judging you by your handshakes, whether it was firm and assertive and trustworthy, or whether it was weak and that you are therefore somehow a lesser person. This is absolutely crazy! Does anyone else believe this?

By example Jesus/Yeshua dined with the tax collectors. 

FYI - Originally shaking hands was about showing people you did not possess a weapon upon greeting. 

I have no problems shaking hands with anybody due to their religious beliefs. I would even shake hands with a satanist.  We are to love our enemies, pray for those who persecute us. 

The only people I have problem shaking hands with would be in the slums of India.  Not to be too graphic, but they don't have toilet paper there and the hand is used. I'm dead serious too.  EWW!  But that's due to germs and grossness, and not for the people they are (more than likely Hindu).

I am not a person who believes in the mojo of energy transferring and being infected by auras or anything else.

Curious to the OP, if they are Zoroastrian by faith, as it states "original monotheism".

[Jason.Wike]

Actually your attitude towards this is 100% pagan, right down to thinking people will transmit energies into your hand.

What Jesus actually taught was the exact opposite of what you're saying. Matthew 5:47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?

[Jason.Wike]

Curious to the OP, if they are Zoroastrian by faith, as it states "original monotheism".

More likely Muslim... Zoroastrians really don't care what anyone else believes or does, most of them don't even want people to convert to Zoroastrianism and get offended at the idea.

[age234]

Does anyone else believe this?

No, I think you're alone on this one.

[Asteriktos]

I am not a person who believes in the mojo of energy transferring and being infected by auras or anything else.

Then how do you explain this? (my favorite part starts at about 1:40) 

And no, not serious. But it's a good excuse to post a funny vid.

[amartin]

I would even shake hands with a satanist.  We are to love our enemies

Oh my gosh I am scandalized. Yashua would not shake hands with a satanist. Oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh...

[witega]

Handshakes transmit energies into the bodies.

If true, wouldn't that make it incumbent on Christians to shake hands with unbelievers upon every possible occasion in order to transmit the holy and life-giving energies they receive from God to those who need them most?

[Punch]

I especially will not shake hands with the heathen. This is an absolutely outrageous custom. If you do not know them and they are most likely not even spiritual, but are rather like the average citizen of the kingdom of darkness, then why on earth would the servants of God want to shake hands with them? Handshakes transmit energies into the bodies. Also, most of the heathen males masturbate daily with their right hand. But if you do not shake hands with them then they will not accept you into their dark world of "professionalism" (i.e. service of demons). They even have a whole way of judging you by your handshakes, whether it was firm and assertive and trustworthy, or whether it was weak and that you are therefore somehow a lesser person. This is absolutely crazy! Does anyone else believe this?

I really do not like touching people that I do not know.  I would rather wave at them.

[Papist]

I would even shake hands with a satanist.  We are to love our enemies

Oh my gosh I am scandalized. Yashua would not shake hands with a satanist. Oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh...

To be honest, physical contact with a Satanist would make me very uncomfortable. But that probably has more to do with my own hang ups.

[yeshuaisiam]

I am not a person who believes in the mojo of energy transferring and being infected by auras or anything else.

Then how do you explain this? (my favorite part starts at about 1:40)  

And no, not serious. But it's a good excuse to post a funny vid.

LOL!!!! hilarious vid.  hahahhahaha 1:40

Well, it would really stink to be robbed of your chi.     Chi robbing should be a CRIME!

[Shanghaiski]

I especially will not shake hands with the heathen. This is an absolutely outrageous custom. If you do not know them and they are most likely not even spiritual, but are rather like the average citizen of the kingdom of darkness, then why on earth would the servants of God want to shake hands with them? Handshakes transmit energies into the bodies. Also, most of the heathen males masturbate daily with their right hand. But if you do not shake hands with them then they will not accept you into their dark world of "professionalism" (i.e. service of demons). They even have a whole way of judging you by your handshakes, whether it was firm and assertive and trustworthy, or whether it was weak and that you are therefore somehow a lesser person. This is absolutely crazy! Does anyone else believe this?

I don't think handshaking is crazy, rather your opinions of it are. And your blanket judging of others is breathtaking. (You forgot to mention the secret handshakes of Freemasons, btw.)

[Shanghaiski]

I would even shake hands with a satanist.  We are to love our enemies

Oh my gosh I am scandalized. Yashua would not shake hands with a satanist. Oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh...

Are you seriously this deluded?

[GabrieltheCelt]

Amartin, I wouldn't dismiss not wanting to shake hands because of hygienic reasons.  Sounds like a pretty normal, healthy concern (unless, of course, this fear turns into mysophobia [fear of germs]; that would be unhealthy imo).  Many folks find it helpful and reassuring to carry a small container of sanitizer.  However, refusing to shake someone's hand for the reason's you've listed are hopefully something you'll eventually grow out of.  As you begin to mature and graduate from high school, you'll see the fallacy of this reasoning.  I was going to illustrate my assertions with some Biblical parable's, but it's unclear if you would understand (or accept) them as I'm not sure what you mean by 'original monotheism'.

Anyway, best of luck to you!

[yeshuaisiam]

I would even shake hands with a satanist.  We are to love our enemies

Oh my gosh I am scandalized. Yashua would not shake hands with a satanist. Oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh...

To be honest, physical contact with a Satanist would make me very uncomfortable. But that probably has more to do with my own hang ups.

Well, they are the children of God too, who by our example, could come to Christ.

This reminds me of a time I went to Barnes and Noble with some friends that we know.  They came into the store and I started to explain why I never shop at Barnes and Noble.   I took them to the esoteric/occult book section and started to explain that I do not want to support a business that would patronage books that directly teach the occult.

Anyway I was showing them and pointing out several books, then I picked up a copy of Anton Levey's "satanic bible".   I said, "look they even carry the satanic bible".   Several people gasped and one full grown adult woman started freaking out that I even touched it!

I was like "um, it's paper made from the same trees that any other book is made from, including the bible".  "It's not going to infect me or send some kind of demon into me because I picked it up".   I proceeded "I completely object and disagree with the satanic theology, and believe that it poisons the soul, but a simple book isn't going to suddenly shoot some kind of demonic force into me".

Shaking hands is the same way.  They aren't going to zap you with a demon or evil.   Even if they wanted to or did some kind of funky spell, its not going to work.  

With that said, if somebody is a satanist, and is polite, and conducts themselves in a respectful manner towards others, I have absolutely no problem shaking their hand or even carrying on a conversation with them.  I don't agree with their theology or religious views.  That doesn't mean that they are going to cast the undead soul possess spell and have hells gates burst forth from your chest, and even if they did, it doesn't work.

Don't fear evil, as evil stands on the authority of nothing.   Fear God, and your own sins, because God has the authority.   As an Orthodox Christian you'll hear many times in prayers (from Matthew 6:13) "For THINE is the kingdom, and the POWER, and the GLORY, forever and ever.

Satan no longer has power outside of temptation or allowing yourself to become possessed.   We know this after Job.

[Schultz]

I would even shake hands with a satanist.  We are to love our enemies

Oh my gosh I am scandalized. Yashua would not shake hands with a satanist. Oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh...

To be honest, physical contact with a Satanist would make me very uncomfortable. But that probably has more to do with my own hang ups.

Well, they are the children of God too, who by our example, could come to Christ.

This reminds me of a time I went to Barnes and Noble with some friends that we know.  They came into the store and I started to explain why I never shop at Barnes and Noble.   I took them to the esoteric/occult book section and started to explain that I do not want to support a business that would patronage books that directly teach the occult.

Anyway I was showing them and pointing out several books, then I picked up a copy of Anton Levey's "satanic bible".   I said, "look they even carry the satanic bible".   Several people gasped and one full grown adult woman started freaking out that I even touched it!

I was like "um, it's paper made from the same trees that any other book is made from, including the bible".  "It's not going to infect me or send some kind of demon into me because I picked it up".   I proceeded "I completely object and disagree with the satanic theology, and believe that it poisons the soul, but a simple book isn't going to suddenly shoot some kind of demonic force into me".

Shaking hands is the same way.  They aren't going to zap you with a demon or evil.   Even if they wanted to or did some kind of funky spell, its not going to work.  

With that said, if somebody is a satanist, and is polite, and conducts themselves in a respectful manner towards others, I have absolutely no problem shaking their hand or even carrying on a conversation with them.  I don't agree with their theology or religious views.  That doesn't mean that they are going to cast the undead soul possess spell and have hells gates burst forth from your chest, and even if they did, it doesn't work.

Don't fear evil, as evil stands on the authority of nothing.   Fear God, and your own sins, because God has the authority.   As an Orthodox Christian you'll hear many times in prayers (from Matthew 6:13) "For THINE is the kingdom, and the POWER, and the GLORY, forever and ever.

Satan no longer has power outside of temptation or allowing yourself to become possessed.   We know this after Job.

I normally disagree with you, but this one is spot on.

[Shanghaiski]

I especially will not shake hands with the heathen. This is an absolutely outrageous custom. If you do not know them and they are most likely not even spiritual, but are rather like the average citizen of the kingdom of darkness, then why on earth would the servants of God want to shake hands with them? Handshakes transmit energies into the bodies. Also, most of the heathen males masturbate daily with their right hand. But if you do not shake hands with them then they will not accept you into their dark world of "professionalism" (i.e. service of demons). They even have a whole way of judging you by your handshakes, whether it was firm and assertive and trustworthy, or whether it was weak and that you are therefore somehow a lesser person. This is absolutely crazy! Does anyone else believe this?

I really do not like touching people that I do not know.  I would rather wave at them.

That reminds me, in context of this particular thread, of my favorite anecdote from "From the Little Mountain," by William Darlymple. Darlymple, a lapsed Roman Catholic, was visiting the monastery of Mar Saba near Jerusalem and talking to a monk who had zeal where his brains ought to have been, told him that, on the day of judgment, he would be standing on the monastery's mountain watching Darlymple and his Roman Catholic friends roll by in the river of fire and wave, because there's nothing he could do.

[Shlomlokh]

I'm with amartin: I don't believe in shaking hands. I also don't believe in hands.

In Christ,
Andrew

[GabrieltheCelt]

I, too, used to not believe in shaking hands.  Then I saw someone with Parkinson's disease.  I believe now, y'all!! 

[primuspilus]

I, too, used to not believe in shaking hands.  Then I saw someone with Parkinson's disease.  I believe now, y'all!! 

PP

[LizaSymonenko]

[Papist]

I would even shake hands with a satanist.  We are to love our enemies

Oh my gosh I am scandalized. Yashua would not shake hands with a satanist. Oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh...

To be honest, physical contact with a Satanist would make me very uncomfortable. But that probably has more to do with my own hang ups.

Well, they are the children of God too, who by our example, could come to Christ.

This reminds me of a time I went to Barnes and Noble with some friends that we know.  They came into the store and I started to explain why I never shop at Barnes and Noble.   I took them to the esoteric/occult book section and started to explain that I do not want to support a business that would patronage books that directly teach the occult.

Anyway I was showing them and pointing out several books, then I picked up a copy of Anton Levey's "satanic bible".   I said, "look they even carry the satanic bible".   Several people gasped and one full grown adult woman started freaking out that I even touched it!

I was like "um, it's paper made from the same trees that any other book is made from, including the bible".  "It's not going to infect me or send some kind of demon into me because I picked it up".   I proceeded "I completely object and disagree with the satanic theology, and believe that it poisons the soul, but a simple book isn't going to suddenly shoot some kind of demonic force into me".

Shaking hands is the same way.  They aren't going to zap you with a demon or evil.   Even if they wanted to or did some kind of funky spell, its not going to work.  

With that said, if somebody is a satanist, and is polite, and conducts themselves in a respectful manner towards others, I have absolutely no problem shaking their hand or even carrying on a conversation with them.  I don't agree with their theology or religious views.  That doesn't mean that they are going to cast the undead soul possess spell and have hells gates burst forth from your chest, and even if they did, it doesn't work.

Don't fear evil, as evil stands on the authority of nothing.   Fear God, and your own sins, because God has the authority.   As an Orthodox Christian you'll hear many times in prayers (from Matthew 6:13) "For THINE is the kingdom, and the POWER, and the GLORY, forever and ever.

Satan no longer has power outside of temptation or allowing yourself to become possessed.   We know this after Job.

Oh, I agree with you. Like I said, fear of physical contanct with a satanist is really more about my own hang ups than any deep theological truth.

[Asteriktos]

Oh, I agree with you. Like I said, fear of physical contanct with a satanist is really more about my own hang ups than any deep theological truth.

You do realise that they wash the blood off when they're done?    The only thing I have against satanists is that they're full of themselves and rather proud of it, and think it's a good thing. I may be full of myself, but I'll be darned if I try to make a virtue out of it! I'm too humble to do that! Er, wait... 

[Papist]

Oh, I agree with you. Like I said, fear of physical contanct with a satanist is really more about my own hang ups than any deep theological truth.

You do realise that they wash the blood off when they're done?    The only thing I have against satanists is that they're full of themselves and rather proud of it, and think it's a good thing. I may be full of myself, but I'll be darned if I try to make a virtue out of it! I'm too humble to do that! Er, wait... 

Funny that you say that. I was actually diagnosed with OCD. I wash my hands way too much.

[vamrat]

I would even shake hands with a satanist.  We are to love our enemies

Oh my gosh I am scandalized. Yashua would not shake hands with a satanist. Oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh...

To be honest, physical contact with a Satanist would make me very uncomfortable. But that probably has more to do with my own hang ups.

Well, they are the children of God too, who by our example, could come to Christ.

This reminds me of a time I went to Barnes and Noble with some friends that we know.  They came into the store and I started to explain why I never shop at Barnes and Noble.   I took them to the esoteric/occult book section and started to explain that I do not want to support a business that would patronage books that directly teach the occult.

Anyway I was showing them and pointing out several books, then I picked up a copy of Anton Levey's "satanic bible".   I said, "look they even carry the satanic bible".   Several people gasped and one full grown adult woman started freaking out that I even touched it!

I was like "um, it's paper made from the same trees that any other book is made from, including the bible".  "It's not going to infect me or send some kind of demon into me because I picked it up".   I proceeded "I completely object and disagree with the satanic theology, and believe that it poisons the soul, but a simple book isn't going to suddenly shoot some kind of demonic force into me".

Shaking hands is the same way.  They aren't going to zap you with a demon or evil.   Even if they wanted to or did some kind of funky spell, its not going to work.  

With that said, if somebody is a satanist, and is polite, and conducts themselves in a respectful manner towards others, I have absolutely no problem shaking their hand or even carrying on a conversation with them.  I don't agree with their theology or religious views.  That doesn't mean that they are going to cast the undead soul possess spell and have hells gates burst forth from your chest, and even if they did, it doesn't work.

Don't fear evil, as evil stands on the authority of nothing.   Fear God, and your own sins, because God has the authority.   As an Orthodox Christian you'll hear many times in prayers (from Matthew 6:13) "For THINE is the kingdom, and the POWER, and the GLORY, forever and ever.

Satan no longer has power outside of temptation or allowing yourself to become possessed.   We know this after Job.

Oh, I agree with you. Like I said, fear of physical contanct with a satanist is really more about my own hang ups than any deep theological truth.

I likewise would not shake hands with a satanist, nor an atheist.  Neither of them bathe, ever.  Part of their mutually intelligible religions is that soap is from God and thus must be good (their version of evil) so they avoid it like the plague...then again, since they bear the plague I'm not all that sure they actually avoid it.  I may need to rethink that phrase.  But anyway...  Once I saw some satanists at a high school and began throwing bars of soap at them (that I keep around for this very purpose).  I hit one of them in the nose and it started bleeding.  This is when I knew that it is true that the very presence of soap will cause them to bleed.  Another time I was over at someone's house and their child, entirely clad in black, was playing Diablo II on the computer.  I muttered the words of power - "soap", "water", "bath", and "personal hygiene" under my breath and he immediately fell into convulsions on the floor.  As I stared on in wonder his mother came in screaming about calling 911 because her son was an epileptic, but my faith was unshaken.  I had seen the truth that these simple words are unbearable for a satanist or an atheist even to hear.

That and they all smell like BO and Doritos.

[Papist]

That and they all smell like BO and Doritos.

My students must all be atheists or satanists then. 

[vamrat]

That and they all smell like BO and Doritos.

My students must all be atheists or satanists then. 

I feel sorry for you, having to be around that many ungodly folk.  You don't shake hands with them do you?

[PeterTheAleut]

I especially will not shake hands with the heathen. This is an absolutely outrageous custom. If you do not know them and they are most likely not even spiritual, but are rather like the average citizen of the kingdom of darkness, then why on earth would the servants of God want to shake hands with them? Handshakes transmit energies into the bodies. Also, most of the heathen males masturbate daily with their right hand. But if you do not shake hands with them then they will not accept you into their dark world of "professionalism" (i.e. service of demons). They even have a whole way of judging you by your handshakes, whether it was firm and assertive and trustworthy, or whether it was weak and that you are therefore somehow a lesser person. This is absolutely crazy! Does anyone else believe this?

What? Are you afraid they'll give you the cooties?

[Alpo]

The heresy of pointy hats, the heresy of door-opening, the heresy of hand-shaking. The Unholy Trinity of OC.net.

[biro]

You don't always know a person is a heathen when you meet them. What if you have to shake hands when you walk into a business meeting, and later you find out the person was heathen? Is it off to confession with you? 

[orthonorm]

Possibly more idiotic thread starter ever.

I don't "fist bump". Not because of people being heathens, just cause it is ****.

The latter is much worse than the former.




Looking for more appropriate alternative to obscenity originally used  -PtA

[yeshuaisiam]

I would even shake hands with a satanist.  We are to love our enemies

Oh my gosh I am scandalized. Yashua would not shake hands with a satanist. Oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh...

To be honest, physical contact with a Satanist would make me very uncomfortable. But that probably has more to do with my own hang ups.

Well, they are the children of God too, who by our example, could come to Christ.

This reminds me of a time I went to Barnes and Noble with some friends that we know.  They came into the store and I started to explain why I never shop at Barnes and Noble.   I took them to the esoteric/occult book section and started to explain that I do not want to support a business that would patronage books that directly teach the occult.

Anyway I was showing them and pointing out several books, then I picked up a copy of Anton Levey's "satanic bible".   I said, "look they even carry the satanic bible".   Several people gasped and one full grown adult woman started freaking out that I even touched it!

I was like "um, it's paper made from the same trees that any other book is made from, including the bible".  "It's not going to infect me or send some kind of demon into me because I picked it up".   I proceeded "I completely object and disagree with the satanic theology, and believe that it poisons the soul, but a simple book isn't going to suddenly shoot some kind of demonic force into me".

Shaking hands is the same way.  They aren't going to zap you with a demon or evil.   Even if they wanted to or did some kind of funky spell, its not going to work.  

With that said, if somebody is a satanist, and is polite, and conducts themselves in a respectful manner towards others, I have absolutely no problem shaking their hand or even carrying on a conversation with them.  I don't agree with their theology or religious views.  That doesn't mean that they are going to cast the undead soul possess spell and have hells gates burst forth from your chest, and even if they did, it doesn't work.

Don't fear evil, as evil stands on the authority of nothing.   Fear God, and your own sins, because God has the authority.   As an Orthodox Christian you'll hear many times in prayers (from Matthew 6:13) "For THINE is the kingdom, and the POWER, and the GLORY, forever and ever.

Satan no longer has power outside of temptation or allowing yourself to become possessed.   We know this after Job.

I normally disagree with you, but this one is spot on.

Thanks,

And really, we probably agree on A LOT more than is just brought up on the forums.  Most of the things I bring up are things I struggle with or have formed some type of conclusion on etc.    Most probably don't even realize that I agree with most of the EO church, and love the church... I even promote the church often because I believe that there exists true grace in the Eastern Orthodox Church.  My "issues" (not entirely all disagreements either) would be somewhere in the 5% range with the EO church (often "trivial" and abstract too) whereas I would be right there next to most EO Christians in faith... I don't even know if I'm "NOT" and EO Christian... (yes my English teacher would tell me now "don't use double negatives" lol).  Often the way I post on forums give the lemon juice on the paper cut effect and I apologize if I offend.   The way I post can be "harsh", because frustration is pouring out of my fingertips on theological issues that I've have "trouble" with for years.

If you opened up my nightstand drawers, you would find books by St. Tikhon, Orthodox Bibles, multiple Orthodox service books, KJV bible, strongs concordance bible, Orthodox writings, books on orthodox icons, lost books of the bible, and early Christian writings.... Then there is the caveat (for some on the forums) of anabaptist family life and a couple of other books like astronomy etc.  

I'm trying to make an effort for other people to understand this because I realized that I basically came on the forum and "flooded" it with every single theological issue I've been pinning up for years....

God Bless

[Schultz]

Possibly more idiotic thread starter ever.

I don't "fist bump". Not because of people being heathens, just cause it is ****.

The latter is much worse than the former.




Looking for more appropriate alternative to obscenity originally used  -PtA

Nothing is as worse as a good ol' Christian Side Hug.

[orthonorm]

Possibly more idiotic thread starter ever.

I don't "fist bump". Not because of people being heathens, just cause it is ****.

The latter is much worse than the former.




Looking for more appropriate alternative to obscenity originally used  -PtA

Nothing is as worse as a good ol' Christian Side Hug.

I don't have time to watch the clip now and I have heard the term before, but I really have no idea what people are talking about.

I look forward to being edified.

[biro]

I assume the man on the right of the platform is the publican- he's looking down and therefore seems more humble, correct?

[Punch]

I assume the man on the right of the platform is the publican- he's looking down and therefore seems more humble, correct?

My guess would be that the guy in the green is the Publican.  In the first sequence, the Pharisee exalts himself.  In the second, it is the Publican that is exalted by God.  Just a guess, however.

[biro]

Okay, thanks.

[JamesR]

Umm....http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/i+_b13230538fd1e94812e0fc403ab8fd51.jpg

[genesisone]

Who wants a hug  ?

[Shanghaiski]

Oh, I agree with you. Like I said, fear of physical contanct with a satanist is really more about my own hang ups than any deep theological truth.

You do realise that they wash the blood off when they're done?    The only thing I have against satanists is that they're full of themselves and rather proud of it, and think it's a good thing. I may be full of myself, but I'll be darned if I try to make a virtue out of it! I'm too humble to do that! Er, wait... 

Funny that you say that. I was actually diagnosed with OCD. I wash my hands way too much.

CDO. They're in alphabetical order that way.

[Shanghaiski]

Possibly more idiotic thread starter ever.

I don't "fist bump". Not because of people being heathens, just cause it is ****.

The latter is much worse than the former.




Looking for more appropriate alternative to obscenity originally used  -PtA

I like to greet atheists and Satanists by punching them in the face. This shows them the mercy of God, because they're punched instead of being disintegrated with a ray gun. Of course, to avoid physical contact, it's better to use a baseball bat--but sometimes all you have is the fist that God gave you.

[Shanghaiski]

Possibly more idiotic thread starter ever.

I don't "fist bump". Not because of people being heathens, just cause it is ****.

The latter is much worse than the former.




Looking for more appropriate alternative to obscenity originally used  -PtA

Nothing is as worse as a good ol' Christian Side Hug.

Was expecting staid Evangelicals; got rapper cliches. So disappointed.

[JamesR]

No offense OP, but you are kind of adopting a hyperdox holier-than-though attitude.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

Possibly more idiotic thread starter ever.

I don't "fist bump". Not because of people being heathens, just cause it is ****.

The latter is much worse than the former.




Looking for more appropriate alternative to obscenity originally used  -PtA

In the Urban Dictionary, only one of the 6 definitions are usable, to wit "Unimaginative, uninteresting, stale, preppy, mainstream, especially in a self-promoting way." Take your pick. Second Chance

[orthonorm]

Possibly more idiotic thread starter ever.

I don't "fist bump". Not because of people being heathens, just cause it is ****.

The latter is much worse than the former.




Looking for more appropriate alternative to obscenity originally used  -PtA

In the Urban Dictionary, only one of the 6 definitions are usable, to wit "Unimaginative, uninteresting, stale, preppy, mainstream, especially in a self-promoting way." Take your pick. Second Chance

And yet none capture its meaning. Didn't know the word was considered obscene here.

Mea culpa.

All the other words which come close are other words suggesting macho come effeminate behavior are also probably obscene if the original is.

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I especially will not shake hands with the heathen. This is an absolutely outrageous custom. If you do not know them and they are most likely not even spiritual, but are rather like the average citizen of the kingdom of darkness, then why on earth would the servants of God want to shake hands with them? Handshakes transmit energies into the bodies. Also, most of the heathen males masturbate daily with their right hand. But if you do not shake hands with them then they will not accept you into their dark world of "professionalism" (i.e. service of demons). They even have a whole way of judging you by your handshakes, whether it was firm and assertive and trustworthy, or whether it was weak and that you are therefore somehow a lesser person. This is absolutely crazy! Does anyone else believe this?

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[Asteriktos]

Nothing is as worse as a good ol' Christian Side Hug.

Why'd they disable comments? Awww 

[Schultz]

Nothing is as worse as a good ol' Christian Side Hug.

Why'd they disable comments? Awww 

When this was first posted, they got BUTCHERED.  They finally wised up and erased/disabled them.  Check out some of the responses on the sidebar.

[Agabus]

I only shake hands with Satanists. Athiests get the side hug, agnostics get a cheek kiss, Methodists get a lip peck, etc. It’s progressive.

[orthonorm]

Nothing is as worse as a good ol' Christian Side Hug.

Why'd they disable comments? Awww 

When this was first posted, they got BUTCHERED.  They finally wised up and erased/disabled them.  Check out some of the responses on the sidebar.

HOLY      !

Recently a food blog brought my life to a low I thought I would never see. This echoes the degree of despair I felt then.

 

[witega]

Nothing is as worse as a good ol' Christian Side Hug.

Why'd they disable comments? Awww 

When this was first posted, they got BUTCHERED.  They finally wised up and erased/disabled them.  Check out some of the responses on the sidebar.

 

Posting this should get you banned for weeks for obscenity.

Ugh. Need to go rinse my brain.

[amartin]

i am in shock *scandalized*

[PeterTheAleut]

i am in shock *scandalized*

Why? Do you find it alarming that people don't think as you do?

[amartin]

Where have all the Orthodox gone? It seems the "church" is now only a religion of jokesters.

[Asteriktos]

Where have all the Orthodox gone? It seems the "church" is now only a religion of jokesters.

y so srs?

[amartin]

OMG OMG OMG ! Humanity is out of control. I know for a fact now that the Shaytan has descended upon Eastern Orthodox Christianity!

[Ortho_cat]

OMG OMG OMG ! Humanity is out of control. I know for a fact now that the Shaytan has descended upon Eastern Orthodox Christianity!

So Islam it is. I heard that is is common in Muslim countries to use your hands for toilet paper. I can't say I blame you for starting this thread now.

[biro]

OMG OMG OMG ! Humanity is out of control. I know for a fact now that the Shaytan has descended upon Eastern Orthodox Christianity!

So Islam it is. I heard that is is common in Muslim countries to use your hands for toilet paper. I can't say I blame you for starting this thread now.

I sure hope they have industrial-strength soap in the restrooms. 

[lubeltri]

It seems that Rod Dreher has linked to this thread

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/2012/04/24/masturbation-heathens-segregation-christians/

[Aindriú]

No hand shaking?


What about the "bro fist" (aka Fist Bump)?

[Tzimis]

Christians are suppose to kiss each other on both cheeks. I usually accept a hand shake from most secular people though. I never thought about where their hands have bin though. I would think that they wash there hand frequently enough to not transfer any germs. Most people are germaphobs these days. So i don't see an issue really. Unless off course there outward appearance is degrading at first glance. Than I would avoid contact.

[SolEX01]

Where have all the Orthodox gone? It seems the "church" is now only a religion of jokesters.

Maybe the joke is on you which is why everyone here is replying with jokes

[PeterTheAleut]

Where have all the Orthodox gone? It seems the "church" is now only a religion of jokesters.

If you want people to take you seriously, then post something that can be taken seriously.

[yeshuaisiam]

Christians are suppose to kiss each other on both cheeks. I usually accept a hand shake from most secular people though. I never thought about where their hands have bin though. I would think that they wash there hand frequently enough to not transfer any germs. Most people are germaphobs these days. So i don't see an issue really. Unless off course there outward appearance is degrading at first glance. Than I would avoid contact.

Yeah, often in our church it was one small "kiss" on the right, then on the left, and then on the right again.   The kiss didn't always land though, and it was never a smooch.   Lemme tell ya, just be around 200+ clergy, 6 years old, on forgiveness Sunday.  Face was RAW and the left side twice as raw as the right.  Penance and forgiveness all in one package.   

I believe early on that the "holy kiss" was directly on the lips.  Wasn't there some writing or story of Polycarp doing this?

[Tzimis]

Christians are suppose to kiss each other on both cheeks. I usually accept a hand shake from most secular people though. I never thought about where their hands have bin though. I would think that they wash there hand frequently enough to not transfer any germs. Most people are germaphobs these days. So i don't see an issue really. Unless off course there outward appearance is degrading at first glance. Than I would avoid contact.

Yeah, often in our church it was one small "kiss" on the right, then on the left, and then on the right again.   The kiss didn't always land though, and it was never a smooch.   Lemme tell ya, just be around 200+ clergy, 6 years old, on forgiveness Sunday.  Face was RAW and the left side twice as raw as the right.  Penance and forgiveness all in one package.   

I believe early on that the "holy kiss" was directly on the lips.  Wasn't there some writing or story of Polycarp doing this?

The way I always heard the story is that Judas kissed Jesus on one cheek with the kiss of betrayal. While Christians kiss on both cheeks. This is all from tradition. I don't know if it's a wives tale or if there is anything in written literature to substantiate the truth.

[lovesupreme]

Heathen here, checking in. I've shaken hands with numerous Orthodox priests.

[Agabus]

Heathen here, checking in. I've shaken hands with numerous Orthodox priests.

Hopefully not with your right hand.

[lovesupreme]

Heathen here, checking in. I've shaken hands with numerous Orthodox priests.

Hopefully not with your right hand.

With all my hands.

[kevlev]

Fear of spontaneous combustion is just one reason I avoid handshakes

[JamesRottnek]

Heathen here, checking in. I've shaken hands with numerous Orthodox priests.

Hopefully not with your right hand.

With all my hands.

Are you implying you have three or more hands?

[vamrat]

No hand shaking?


What about the "bro fist" (aka Fist Bump)?

This is the only way of greeting people.  My brother and I were in Church together once during the Kiss of Peace, which they do at my Mother's church, and we instinctively fist bumped.  Luckily there were no babushkas around to chastise us.

[Ortho_cat]

Christians are suppose to kiss each other on both cheeks. I usually accept a hand shake from most secular people though. I never thought about where their hands have bin though. I would think that they wash there hand frequently enough to not transfer any germs. Most people are germaphobs these days. So i don't see an issue really. Unless off course there outward appearance is degrading at first glance. Than I would avoid contact.

Yeah, often in our church it was one small "kiss" on the right, then on the left, and then on the right again.   The kiss didn't always land though, and it was never a smooch.   Lemme tell ya, just be around 200+ clergy, 6 years old, on forgiveness Sunday.  Face was RAW and the left side twice as raw as the right.  Penance and forgiveness all in one package.   

I believe early on that the "holy kiss" was directly on the lips.  Wasn't there some writing or story of Polycarp doing this?

The way I always heard the story is that Judas kissed Jesus on one cheek with the kiss of betrayal. While Christians kiss on both cheeks. This is all from tradition. I don't know if it's a wives tale or if there is anything in written literature to substantiate the truth.

ouch. i have a habit of kissing on one cheek... 

[Timon]

the kissing is one thing that i had to get used to when first inquiring orthodoxy...

[primuspilus]

the kissing is one thing that i had to get used to when first inquiring orthodoxy...

I thank my Western Rite stars I dont have to worry about that.

PP

[Papist]

the kissing is one thing that i had to get used to when first inquiring orthodoxy...

Seriously, my germaphobic mind would be worried about catching cold sores.    I know, I'm a crazy person.

[Shanghaiski]

It seems that Rod Dreher has linked to this thread

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/2012/04/24/masturbation-heathens-segregation-christians/

Rod could benefit from a period of silence.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

It seems that Rod Dreher has linked to this thread

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/2012/04/24/masturbation-heathens-segregation-christians/

Did you check out some of the comments? I'll just cite one that is clean enough for the Forum:

"Heart Knowledge, not Head Knowledge: Purell Bliss for Lost Souls”

[Timon]

the kissing is one thing that i had to get used to when first inquiring orthodoxy...

I thank my Western Rite stars I dont have to worry about that.

PP

i looked for a western rite parish near me but there arent any! Atlanta has everything, so I figured there would be at least one.

[JamesR]

the kissing is one thing that i had to get used to when first inquiring orthodoxy...

I always used to get nervous when the young ladies my age would kiss me at Church when I first became Orthodox.

[Timon]

the kissing is one thing that i had to get used to when first inquiring orthodoxy...

I always used to get nervous when the young ladies my age would kiss me at Church when I first became Orthodox.

Sounds like a great thing for you!!! haha

[lovesupreme]

the kissing is one thing that i had to get used to when first inquiring orthodoxy...

I always used to get nervous when the young ladies my age would kiss me at Church when I first became Orthodox.

Did this really happen? Quite different from entering a synagogue where you aren't even allowed to look at the women...

[Fr.Aidan]

There is no Orthodox Christian custom to kiss people at the kiss of peace in the Liturgy (well, the clergy do, and anciently the people did, but that's a long time since, and the sexes were segregated back then always). Nor shake hands.

If anybody is doing that, they are trying way too hard to be Cool and Really, Like, Hip.

It will fall flat. If it's a Cool American Happening Thing, the fad won't last long.

Christ is risen.

[Ortho_cat]

the kissing is one thing that i had to get used to when first inquiring orthodoxy...

I always used to get nervous when the young ladies my age would kiss me at Church when I first became Orthodox.

Did this really happen? Quite different from entering a synagogue where you aren't even allowed to look at the women...

of course this happens! it's one of the best part of being Orthodox

Usually reserved for forgiveness vespers or after liturgy during fellowship however

[JamesR]

the kissing is one thing that i had to get used to when first inquiring orthodoxy...

I always used to get nervous when the young ladies my age would kiss me at Church when I first became Orthodox.

Did this really happen? Quite different from entering a synagogue where you aren't even allowed to look at the women...

Yeah and quite often too. Not saying I don't enjoy it, but it is rather awkward and strange for me, turning red and all. Orthodoxy is what got me my first kiss, lol.

[lovesupreme]

That seems so strange to me, coming from a religious tradition that forbade contact between the sexes (except when married, and only when the woman was "ritually pure").

Is gender commingling and flirtation not a primary concern? In my opinion, some healthy exposure to the opposite sex probably makes a regular young man well-balanced and temperate, but I would think that the authorities would want to minimize "distractions."

[JamesR]

That seems so strange to me, coming from a religious tradition that forbade contact between the sexes (except when married, and only when the woman was "ritually pure").

Is gender commingling and flirtation not a primary concern? In my opinion, some healthy exposure to the opposite sex probably makes a regular young man well-balanced and temperate, but I would think that the authorities would want to minimize "distractions."

It is not that much of a problem. The parish is really small, local and everyone knows each other. Most of the young people were raised together and everything, so everything is more platonic rather than flirtatious. They see each other as friends or cousins rather than romantic partners. However, for me, since I was the new guy it was kind of different since I didn't know them; they weren't like my close friends to me whom I have no romantic attraction to, they were just a few attractive young women.

Also, did you say that Judaism or Orthodoxy used to forbid any contact between the sexes? How far was this taken? I mean, could people even have platonic relationships or socialize with the opposite gender at all? Even outside of the Church/Synagogue?

[lovesupreme]

That seems so strange to me, coming from a religious tradition that forbade contact between the sexes (except when married, and only when the woman was "ritually pure").

Is gender commingling and flirtation not a primary concern? In my opinion, some healthy exposure to the opposite sex probably makes a regular young man well-balanced and temperate, but I would think that the authorities would want to minimize "distractions."

It is not that much of a problem. The parish is really small, local and everyone knows each other. Most of the young people were raised together and everything, so everything is more platonic rather than flirtatious. They see each other as friends or cousins rather than romantic partners. However, for me, since I was the new guy it was kind of different since I didn't know them; they weren't like my close friends to me whom I have no romantic attraction to, they were just a few attractive young women.

Also, did you say that Judaism or Orthodoxy used to forbid any contact between the sexes? How far was this taken? I mean, could people even have platonic relationships or socialize with the opposite gender at all? Even outside of the Church/Synagogue?

I come from Orthodox Judaism. In the synagogue, there is a physical barrier called a mechitza that keeps the men and women separated. Usually, men and women sit on the same level, in which case a mechitza looks like this:



However, women sometimes sit a level above the men; in that case, they can see the men but the men can't see them. In this picture, the women are sitting behind the top windows. If you were standing in the men's section, you would only see their silhouettes.



Physical contact is always forbidden between the sexes. Only immediate family members are allowed to touch each other. Additionally, if a women is menstruating, she is considered impure and the husband cannot touch her until she is clean for seven days and bathes in a ritual bath.

Talking to the other sex was not explicitly forbidden, but many rabbis wrote about the evils of associating too much with women. Boys and girls attend different schools and in some communities, meet only during "made for marriage" dates where their parents chaperone. It really depends on how traditional versus how "modern" the community is, but in most cases, men stick with men and women stick with women.

[JamesR]

No offense but that sounds pretty crummy. I mean, I could see separating yourselves in the Synagogue and forbidding physical contact, but not even associating with, talking or befriending people of the opposite gender? Sounds kind of miserable. Then again, maybe it works. I feel physically attracted to all of my platonic female friends even though we are just friends.

[lovesupreme]

No offense but that sounds pretty crummy. I mean, I could see separating yourselves in the Synagogue and forbidding physical contact, but not even associating with, talking or befriending people of the opposite gender? Sounds kind of miserable. Then again, maybe it works. I feel physically attracted to all of my platonic female friends even though we are just friends.

I'm not offended in the least; I have severed myself from that way of life.

In my experience, it actually caused more sexual tension. Sort of the "forbidden fruit" idea.

Also, you're not allowed to hear women sing.

[JamesR]

No offense but that sounds pretty crummy. I mean, I could see separating yourselves in the Synagogue and forbidding physical contact, but not even associating with, talking or befriending people of the opposite gender? Sounds kind of miserable. Then again, maybe it works. I feel physically attracted to all of my platonic female friends even though we are just friends.

I'm not offended in the least; I have severed myself from that way of life.

In my experience, it actually caused more sexual tension. Sort of the "forbidden fruit" idea.

Also, you're not allowed to hear women sing.

Are there any moments when you actually can associate with women outside of a marriage? Any special festivals, dances, events etc? There's got to be some special occasion where Judaism permits contact.

[lovesupreme]

No offense but that sounds pretty crummy. I mean, I could see separating yourselves in the Synagogue and forbidding physical contact, but not even associating with, talking or befriending people of the opposite gender? Sounds kind of miserable. Then again, maybe it works. I feel physically attracted to all of my platonic female friends even though we are just friends.

I'm not offended in the least; I have severed myself from that way of life.

In my experience, it actually caused more sexual tension. Sort of the "forbidden fruit" idea.

Also, you're not allowed to hear women sing.

Are there any moments when you actually can associate with women outside of a marriage? Any special festivals, dances, events etc? There's got to be some special occasion where Judaism permits contact.

No. In fact, at weddings, men and women are completely separated by a large screen. Men eat dinner on one side, women on the other. Of course, no one's going to complain if a wife goes to the other side to ask her husband something, but men are not supposed to watch women dance and vice versa.

Again, it's not like in practice, there's no associating. In small or medium gatherings, men and women sit together to eat (although usually they're spaced apart so that there will be no accidental touching). And there were times when I rode in a car alone with a woman. But in general, the policy is to separate; if you spend time with your wife, you should do so only in moderation:

Pirkei Avot 1:5: "He who talks too much with women brings evil upon himself and neglects the study of the Torah and will in the end inherit Gehenna [purgatory]."

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

Does anybody think that this conversation is getting silly? That it no longer fits in FFA-RT? Well, I do and I am going to move it unless someone convinces me otherwise. Thanks, Second Chance

[Asteriktos]

Does anybody think that this conversation is getting silly? That it no longer fits in FFA-RT? Well, I do and I am going to move it unless someone convinces me otherwise. Thanks, Second Chance

Considering where it started out, isn't it getting more serious?     Not that I disagree with moving it...

[witega]

Also, did you say that Judaism or Orthodoxy used to forbid any contact between the sexes? How far was this taken? I mean, could people even have platonic relationships or socialize with the opposite gender at all? Even outside of the Church/Synagogue?

Orthodox Christianity never forbade contact between the sexes. Until fairly recently (and still maintained in some places) women and men stood on separate sides of the Church during services (thus Fr. Aidan's comment about when the kiss of peace was still a common lay practice, the only people standing next to you to be kissed would be of the same sex).

[Shanghaiski]

Does anybody think that this conversation is getting silly? That it no longer fits in FFA-RT? Well, I do and I am going to move it unless someone convinces me otherwise. Thanks, Second Chance

I think it was silly from the beginning.

[vamrat]

Does anybody think that this conversation is getting silly? That it no longer fits in FFA-RT? Well, I do and I am going to move it unless someone convinces me otherwise. Thanks, Second Chance

I think you should combine this with the Renunciation of Christianity thread and the Renunciation of Renunciations of the Great Platypus thread and rename the lot of them "Random Postings II" and move them to FFA-NRT so that both that section and Other Topics have a Random Postings thread.  That way Random Postings can be for semisensical Random Posts and this one can be for nonsensical topics.  I think it would be good for the forum to have a place for the insane to rant.  Hyperdox Herman agrees with me.

[primuspilus]

Does anybody think that this conversation is getting silly? That it no longer fits in FFA-RT? Well, I do and I am going to move it unless someone convinces me otherwise. Thanks, Second Chance

I think you should combine this with the Renunciation of Christianity thread and the Renunciation of Renunciations of the Great Platypus thread and rename the lot of them "Random Postings II" and move them to FFA-NRT so that both that section and Other Topics have a Random Postings thread.  That way Random Postings can be for semisensical Random Posts and this one can be for nonsensical topics.  I think it would be good for the forum to have a place for the insane to rant.  Hyperdox Herman agrees with me.

I renounce this thread.

PP

[Ortho_cat]

No offense but that sounds pretty crummy. I mean, I could see separating yourselves in the Synagogue and forbidding physical contact, but not even associating with, talking or befriending people of the opposite gender? Sounds kind of miserable. Then again, maybe it works. I feel physically attracted to all of my platonic female friends even though we are just friends.

I'm not offended in the least; I have severed myself from that way of life.

In my experience, it actually caused more sexual tension. Sort of the "forbidden fruit" idea.

Also, you're not allowed to hear women sing.

Are there any moments when you actually can associate with women outside of a marriage? Any special festivals, dances, events etc? There's got to be some special occasion where Judaism permits contact.

No. In fact, at weddings, men and women are completely separated by a large screen. Men eat dinner on one side, women on the other. Of course, no one's going to complain if a wife goes to the other side to ask her husband something, but men are not supposed to watch women dance and vice versa.

Again, it's not like in practice, there's no associating. In small or medium gatherings, men and women sit together to eat (although usually they're spaced apart so that there will be no accidental touching). And there were times when I rode in a car alone with a woman. But in general, the policy is to separate; if you spend time with your wife, you should do so only in moderation:

Pirkei Avot 1:5: "He who talks too much with women brings evil upon himself and neglects the study of the Torah and will in the end inherit Gehenna [purgatory]."

whoah, Jew's believe in purgatory? Tell me more! BTW, i'm a huge Coltrane fan. Have you heard of this church?

http://www.coltranechurch.org/

[primuspilus]

No offense but that sounds pretty crummy. I mean, I could see separating yourselves in the Synagogue and forbidding physical contact, but not even associating with, talking or befriending people of the opposite gender? Sounds kind of miserable. Then again, maybe it works. I feel physically attracted to all of my platonic female friends even though we are just friends.

I'm not offended in the least; I have severed myself from that way of life.

In my experience, it actually caused more sexual tension. Sort of the "forbidden fruit" idea.

Also, you're not allowed to hear women sing.

Are there any moments when you actually can associate with women outside of a marriage? Any special festivals, dances, events etc? There's got to be some special occasion where Judaism permits contact.

No. In fact, at weddings, men and women are completely separated by a large screen. Men eat dinner on one side, women on the other. Of course, no one's going to complain if a wife goes to the other side to ask her husband something, but men are not supposed to watch women dance and vice versa.

Again, it's not like in practice, there's no associating. In small or medium gatherings, men and women sit together to eat (although usually they're spaced apart so that there will be no accidental touching). And there were times when I rode in a car alone with a woman. But in general, the policy is to separate; if you spend time with your wife, you should do so only in moderation:

Pirkei Avot 1:5: "He who talks too much with women brings evil upon himself and neglects the study of the Torah and will in the end inherit Gehenna [purgatory]."

whoah, Jew's believe in purgatory? Tell me more! BTW, i'm a huge Coltrane fan. Have you heard of this church?

http://www.coltranechurch.org/

Yeah, its some kind of defunct African Orthodox offshoot IIRC. Seems to me just more afro-centric nonsense.

PP

[Ortho_cat]

ya, but for Coltrane fans its more than that!

[lovesupreme]

No offense but that sounds pretty crummy. I mean, I could see separating yourselves in the Synagogue and forbidding physical contact, but not even associating with, talking or befriending people of the opposite gender? Sounds kind of miserable. Then again, maybe it works. I feel physically attracted to all of my platonic female friends even though we are just friends.

I'm not offended in the least; I have severed myself from that way of life.

In my experience, it actually caused more sexual tension. Sort of the "forbidden fruit" idea.

Also, you're not allowed to hear women sing.

Are there any moments when you actually can associate with women outside of a marriage? Any special festivals, dances, events etc? There's got to be some special occasion where Judaism permits contact.

No. In fact, at weddings, men and women are completely separated by a large screen. Men eat dinner on one side, women on the other. Of course, no one's going to complain if a wife goes to the other side to ask her husband something, but men are not supposed to watch women dance and vice versa.

Again, it's not like in practice, there's no associating. In small or medium gatherings, men and women sit together to eat (although usually they're spaced apart so that there will be no accidental touching). And there were times when I rode in a car alone with a woman. But in general, the policy is to separate; if you spend time with your wife, you should do so only in moderation:

Pirkei Avot 1:5: "He who talks too much with women brings evil upon himself and neglects the study of the Torah and will in the end inherit Gehenna [purgatory]."

whoah, Jew's believe in purgatory? Tell me more! BTW, i'm a huge Coltrane fan. Have you heard of this church?

http://www.coltranechurch.org/

From what I understand, it's not the exactly the same thing as what Roman Catholics believe. Basically, when you die, unless you were a truly righteous person who never sinned (or reached a level of holiness where your sins were fully cleansed in your life), you end up in a "limbo" phase where your soul gets refined for "the world to come" (heaven). It's not really a place specifically for people who have committed lesser sins, or uncircumcised babies, etc. According to Rabbinic tradition, everyone stays for a maximum of one year (and they don't have to suffer on the Sabbath!), except for five people who are there for eternity (they don't say who).

Also, glad there's a fellow Coltrane fan here! I did hear about him getting sainted by a church, but I didn't actually see the church's website.

[JamesRottnek]

No offense but that sounds pretty crummy. I mean, I could see separating yourselves in the Synagogue and forbidding physical contact, but not even associating with, talking or befriending people of the opposite gender? Sounds kind of miserable. Then again, maybe it works. I feel physically attracted to all of my platonic female friends even though we are just friends.

I'm not offended in the least; I have severed myself from that way of life.

In my experience, it actually caused more sexual tension. Sort of the "forbidden fruit" idea.

Also, you're not allowed to hear women sing.

I thought Orthodox Jewish men could listen to women sing, provided they had never ever seen their faces? 

[podkarpatska]

No offense but that sounds pretty crummy. I mean, I could see separating yourselves in the Synagogue and forbidding physical contact, but not even associating with, talking or befriending people of the opposite gender? Sounds kind of miserable. Then again, maybe it works. I feel physically attracted to all of my platonic female friends even though we are just friends.

I'm not offended in the least; I have severed myself from that way of life.

In my experience, it actually caused more sexual tension. Sort of the "forbidden fruit" idea.

Also, you're not allowed to hear women sing.

I thought Orthodox Jewish men could listen to women sing, provided they had never ever seen their faces? 

I can bring this full circle!

When I was counsel to the Mayor of our city, for a number of years we had an attractive, 30-ish,  female Mayor. A large block in our downtown fell into foreclosure and was purchased at auction on behalf of 'blind' NYC interests.

They came upstate one summer afternoon to meet with their bankers and our economic development office as they were vaguely talking about doing a conversion into student housing for the university. We took them to meet the mayor and they stopped dead in their tracks. They were Hasidic Jews and they would not shake the mayor's hand when offered nor come into her inner offer as they wanted to know if she were post-menopausal or, if not, was she having her period.

Needless to say, she was offended by their bluntness and they never moved forward with their proposal - which really was quite speculative and would have required tax abatements and assistance well beyond what we typically would offer such a project.

[Ortho_cat]

No offense but that sounds pretty crummy. I mean, I could see separating yourselves in the Synagogue and forbidding physical contact, but not even associating with, talking or befriending people of the opposite gender? Sounds kind of miserable. Then again, maybe it works. I feel physically attracted to all of my platonic female friends even though we are just friends.

I'm not offended in the least; I have severed myself from that way of life.

In my experience, it actually caused more sexual tension. Sort of the "forbidden fruit" idea.

Also, you're not allowed to hear women sing.

I thought Orthodox Jewish men could listen to women sing, provided they had never ever seen their faces? 

I can bring this full circle!

When I was counsel to the Mayor of our city, for a number of years we had an attractive, 30-ish,  female Mayor. A large block in our downtown fell into foreclosure and was purchased at auction on behalf of 'blind' NYC interests.

They came upstate one summer afternoon to meet with their bankers and our economic development office as they were vaguely talking about doing a conversion into student housing for the university. We took them to meet the mayor and they stopped dead in their tracks. They were Hasidic Jews and they would not shake the mayor's hand when offered nor come into her inner offer as they wanted to know if she were post-menopausal or, if not, was she having her period.

Needless to say, she was offended by their bluntness and they never moved forward with their proposal - which really was quite speculative and would have required tax abatements and assistance well beyond what we typically would offer such a project.

[lovesupreme]

Oh wow, why didn't I make that connection sooner? Yes, most Orthodox Jews will not shake hands with the opposite sex. Some will in a business setting and others will so as not to offend the unknowing party, but some are very adamant (I was one of those people) and will flat-out refuse. I tried to be really cordial about it, "I'm really sorry, but I can't shake your hand for religious reasons. I hope you understand and it is a pleasure to meet you."

I'm kind of shocked that they asked if the mayor was menstruating (why not just assume and not ask that embarrassing personal question?), but sadly, not too shocked...

[lovesupreme]

No offense but that sounds pretty crummy. I mean, I could see separating yourselves in the Synagogue and forbidding physical contact, but not even associating with, talking or befriending people of the opposite gender? Sounds kind of miserable. Then again, maybe it works. I feel physically attracted to all of my platonic female friends even though we are just friends.

I'm not offended in the least; I have severed myself from that way of life.

In my experience, it actually caused more sexual tension. Sort of the "forbidden fruit" idea.

Also, you're not allowed to hear women sing.

I thought Orthodox Jewish men could listen to women sing, provided they had never ever seen their faces? 

This is a technicality that most people frown upon, although I did hear a story about a Chief Rabbi in Israel loving to listen to this opera singer. The others, upset that he was exploiting a technicality, barged into his office and showed him a picture of the woman.

PERSONAL RANT TIME: It sounds more and more stupid every time I bring this stuff up and I can't believe I used to be a part of that culture...

[podkarpatska]

Oh wow, why didn't I make that connection sooner? Yes, most Orthodox Jews will not shake hands with the opposite sex. Some will in a business setting and others will so as not to offend the unknowing party, but some are very adamant (I was one of those people) and will flat-out refuse. I tried to be really cordial about it, "I'm really sorry, but I can't shake your hand for religious reasons. I hope you understand and it is a pleasure to meet you."

I'm kind of shocked that they asked if the mayor was menstruating (why not just assume and not ask that embarrassing personal question?), but sadly, not too shocked...

It was a leanover to the budget director with a whispered question - his facial reaction to being asked was priceless!

[JamesRottnek]

No offense but that sounds pretty crummy. I mean, I could see separating yourselves in the Synagogue and forbidding physical contact, but not even associating with, talking or befriending people of the opposite gender? Sounds kind of miserable. Then again, maybe it works. I feel physically attracted to all of my platonic female friends even though we are just friends.

I'm not offended in the least; I have severed myself from that way of life.

In my experience, it actually caused more sexual tension. Sort of the "forbidden fruit" idea.

Also, you're not allowed to hear women sing.

I thought Orthodox Jewish men could listen to women sing, provided they had never ever seen their faces? 

This is a technicality that most people frown upon, although I did hear a story about a Chief Rabbi in Israel loving to listen to this opera singer. The others, upset that he was exploiting a technicality, barged into his office and showed him a picture of the woman.

PERSONAL RANT TIME: It sounds more and more stupid every time I bring this stuff up and I can't believe I used to be a part of that culture...

I knew it was a technicality, but I didn't realize it was a frowned upon technicality.  There are so many Jewish traditions and rules because of technicalities, that I never think that some technicalities might actually be frowned on.

[Fr.Aidan]

Christ is risen.

So, in a very particular small individual parish, it might not be a problem for men to kiss on women and women to kiss on men. However, if the parish grows and becomes a large parish? Or what happens if some of the people move and go to the big city parish? If they are used to this Not-Before-in-Orthodox-History kissing concept, then they will feel (perhaps) let down. Conversely, if the people from that parish wind up in the smaller parish, and are not used to the New American Kissing Innovation, they will be scandalized.

It's a lose-lose proposition.

I don't think whichever American people instituted this thing, were thinking it through very far. Better to stick with Orthodox tradition, which can occasionally be odd, but at least is tried and true.

[orthonorm]

Christ is risen.

So, in a very particular small individual parish, it might not be a problem for men to kiss on women and women to kiss on men. However, if the parish grows and becomes a large parish? Or what happens if some of the people move and go to the big city parish? If they are used to this Not-Before-in-Orthodox-History kissing concept, then they will feel (perhaps) let down. Conversely, if the people from that parish wind up in the smaller parish, and are not used to the New American Kissing Innovation, they will be scandalized.

It's a lose-lose proposition.

I don't think whichever American people instituted this thing, were thinking it through very far. Better to stick with Orthodox tradition, which can occasionally be odd, but at least is tried and true.

And I thought the French innovated kissing.

[Schultz]

Christ is risen.

So, in a very particular small individual parish, it might not be a problem for men to kiss on women and women to kiss on men. However, if the parish grows and becomes a large parish? Or what happens if some of the people move and go to the big city parish? If they are used to this Not-Before-in-Orthodox-History kissing concept, then they will feel (perhaps) let down. Conversely, if the people from that parish wind up in the smaller parish, and are not used to the New American Kissing Innovation, they will be scandalized.

It's a lose-lose proposition.

I don't think whichever American people instituted this thing, were thinking it through very far. Better to stick with Orthodox tradition, which can occasionally be odd, but at least is tried and true.

And I thought the French innovated kissing.

Only physical kissing.  Before the great Western heresy of using your lips, Orthodox kissed only spiritually like Adam and Eve in the Garden.

[Fr.Aidan]

Christ is risen.

I think in many cases, it's just American-style hand-shaking, actually, so "kissing on" is a poor choice of words. But it's a New American Invention for what to do at the Liturgy at the time of the kiss of peace. Only if we are talking about a gender-segregated temple (like some Anglican Protestants had up into the 20th century), with a kiss of peace, would it be a return to ancient practices.

But it still has the disadvantage of creating a disconnect between Orthodox parishes which was not there before.

[Katiedarling]

Father,

I wonder, as an American innovation (and handshake) if this might come from protestant converts who are very used to shaking hands, hugging, and greeting one another as part of their worship service. That's been the custom in every American Protestant church I've ever been to (and it quite often takes at least five minutes).

[That person]

Possibly more idiotic thread starter ever.

I don't "fist bump". Not because of people being heathens, just cause it is ****.

The latter is much worse than the former.




Looking for more appropriate alternative to obscenity originally used  -PtA

I liked  Demetri Martin's take on the handshake-fist bump controversy. (Mild language)

Where have all the Orthodox gone? It seems the "church" is now only a religion of jokesters.

Can you show me somewhere in church history where somebody advocates such a position on handshaking? Even somebody from augustin's village would be an acceptable example.

the kissing is one thing that i had to get used to when first inquiring orthodoxy...

Seriously, my germaphobic mind would be worried about catching cold sores.   I know, I'm a crazy person.

I think I'd feel the same way, although that has more to do with my neurotic disdain for physical contact with others, especially when moisture is involved.

[Fr.Aidan]

Christ is risen!

A question for those queasy about physical contact:

Would you feel better about kissing an icon that others are also kissing, than about hugging or kissing (really, sort of embracing with cheek contact and maybe some hand-to-arm-or-shoulder contact) or shaking hands? I wonder, since in the older Roman rite this was a standard way to preserve the kiss of peace idea without actually having the physical contact between laity. It will be done that way at the Old Roman Rite Mass which will be celebrated in the Mt. Alvernia Retreat Center in Wappinger Falls, New York, this August 9 at about 7:00 a.m.

[Marc1152]

I especially will not shake hands with the heathen. This is an absolutely outrageous custom. If you do not know them and they are most likely not even spiritual, but are rather like the average citizen of the kingdom of darkness, then why on earth would the servants of God want to shake hands with them? Handshakes transmit energies into the bodies. Also, most of the heathen males masturbate daily with their right hand. But if you do not shake hands with them then they will not accept you into their dark world of "professionalism" (i.e. service of demons). They even have a whole way of judging you by your handshakes, whether it was firm and assertive and trustworthy, or whether it was weak and that you are therefore somehow a lesser person. This is absolutely crazy! Does anyone else believe this?

Get help.

[Tags:]

OrthodoxChristianity.net > Moderated Forums > Free-For-All > Religious Topics (Moderator: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)) > Topic: I do not believe in shaking hands.