Author Topic: Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches  (Read 2984 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jennifer

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,154
Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« on: October 21, 2004, 05:33:42 PM »
I was just told on the DCF board that *they* are sick of hearing about the Eastern Catholic Churches.  I find this attitude very troubling.  How can there be reunion when Roman Catholics are willfully ignorant of the Eastern Churches that they're in communion with, let alone the Eastern Churches they're not in communion with.  


Offline Elisha

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,521
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2004, 06:16:15 PM »
DCF?  Yup, very troubling - I agree.  As I was never RC though, nothing much to comment.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,974
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2004, 06:18:47 PM »
What's the DCF board?  

I remember being on a predominantly RC message board where a few of the posters got tired of hearing about the Eastern Catholic and the Orthodox Churches.  I think part of the reason was because they wanted to fit certain things into neat categories (like use of unleavened bread and a celibate priesthood) and then someone (like me :) )came in with an Eastern wrench to botch things up.  It's pretty sad, rather than try to figure out how to address and understand the Christian East, they'd rather forget about it.  Unfortunately, this attitude is also present among us in the East, both Catholic and Orthodox.
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Offline Jennifer

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,154
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2004, 06:26:45 PM »
I think that you're right that they just don't want to hear about it because it doesn't fit into neat categories.

The latest was a discussion about the term "eastern Rite."  I objected to it and was told that I "love" eastern and hate western.  

Someone also wrote that the eastern way was not "reverent."  (referring to infants being allowed to receive the Eucharist)


Offline Fr. David

  • The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,833
    • Iglesia Ortodoxa de los Santos ApĆ³stoles
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2004, 06:31:49 PM »
Someone also wrote that the eastern way was not "reverent."  (referring to infants being allowed to receive the Eucharist)

See, it's right now I wish we had that e-cafe emoticon where the jaw drops about five feet.  "Not reverent?!"

Brother.
Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)

Offline Jennifer

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,154
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2004, 06:53:16 PM »
It really is amazing, isn't it?  And so sad because the eastern Churches have much to  teach Roman Catholics.  

I get so fed up with the triumphantism of on-line apologetists.  There are times when I want to be done with Christianity alltogether.  

Seriously, I go back and forth on my decision to convert (as I've been doing for about 6 years) and when I get the triumphantist "we're right and they're wrong going to hell" response I just want to be done with both sides.


Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,974
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2004, 07:05:38 PM »
Someone also wrote that the eastern way was not "reverent."  (referring to infants being allowed to receive the Eucharist)

That's too bad.  If they only knew how infants are communed in our churches, and the reverence that accompanies the reception of Communion in your average parish, it'd put their "reverence" to shame, and something tells me that somewhere in the back of their minds, they know that.  In a lot of ways, many contemporary "orthodox" RC's are still reeling from a lot that's happened since Vatican II, and I don't think they really know what they are doing: they just want to establish some normalcy, have some strong foundation upon which to rebuild, and they don't care how they get there.  Their best friends in this endeavour could be Eastern Christians, if they weren't so stubborn and set in their ways.
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Offline Anastasios

  • Webdespota
  • Administrator
  • Merarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,496
  • Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina
    • AnastasiosHudson.com
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2004, 07:25:19 PM »
DCF = forums.catholic-convert.com
Please Buy My Book!

Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism and may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,974
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2004, 07:37:04 PM »
Good grief, Steve Ray?  He reminds me of "the Crocodile Hunter", except Catholic and American.
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Offline Jack

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 186
  • OC.net
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2004, 08:11:50 PM »
It really is amazing, isn't it?  And so sad because the eastern Churches have much to  teach Roman Catholics.  

I get so fed up with the triumphantism of on-line apologetists.  There are times when I want to be done with Christianity alltogether.  

Seriously, I go back and forth on my decision to convert (as I've been doing for about 6 years) and when I get the triumphantist "we're right and they're wrong going to hell" response I just want to be done with both sides.



Don't let what you read online drag you down.  There are reasonable voices out there, but the din of triumphalism often drowns them out.  I am Roman Catholic, but I think that my Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters have much to teach me, as do my Orthodox brothers and sisters, my Oriental Orthodox brothers and sisters and also my Protestant brothers and sisters.  Attempts at reconciliation are often met with invectives, but we must be patient and pray.
NULL

Offline Jakub

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,749
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2004, 08:19:42 PM »
I would expect a RC forum to take exception to alot of EO/EC postings as does many EO/EC forums take exception to RC postings.

Just my 2 Latin cents.

james

Edited for misunderstanding of a post.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2004, 08:24:52 PM by Jakub »
An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline MatthewPanchisin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 153
  • OC.net
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2004, 08:46:50 PM »
 
Dear Jennifer,

The truth of the matter is that we are not all the same in what we believe and practice as Christians somethings are right and somethings are wrong. I believe for good reason what the Orthodox Church teaches. You could read the words of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ regarding Holy Communion for children I have put forth a few. There is a right and a wrong. The Roman Catholic Church used to not deny children Holy Communion up to about 900 years ago. I might add there was a time when the did not deny the cup to the laity as well. The Orthodox Church has remained faithful to what has always been practiced and taught by way of the traditions and practices of the Orthodox Church and in accordance with Holy Writ. I once new a Priest who used to tell some of us to use our minds but follow our hearts. He also believed that the Orthodox Church is the Catholic Church. As you know the Latin or Roman Catholic Church of today is much different than it was 1000 years ago.  

Matthew 26
26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."
27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you.

Matthew 19

13 Then little children were brought to Him that He might put His hands on them and pray, but the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven."


Was not our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ crucified for children as well irrespective if they have reached the age of reason of 7 years old or so. I didn't even reach the age of reason until I was an adult and even then I'm not sure I would call it that.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

Offline optxogokcoc

  • orthodoxos
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2004, 11:07:38 PM »
"Good grief, Steve Ray?  He reminds me of "the Crocodile Hunter", except Catholic and American"

Brother Mor Efrem, good old mate Steve (the croc hunter) is a useful man. Bit annoying but very nature and animal oriented. Make that very annoying but still usefull. Good old mate Steve (the RC Net apologist) is very , very annoying. And that is it.

Not all under bishop of Rome are the same just as not all Orthodox are the same. Some are ignorant of everything, and they are on both sides. I do not think that we should always look at the negativity. God help us all.


Offline Jennifer

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,154
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2004, 11:35:44 PM »
I would expect a RC forum to take exception to alot of EO/EC postings as does many EO/EC forums take exception to RC postings.

Just my 2 Latin cents.

james

Edited for misunderstanding of a post.

It's not a RC forum.  It's a Catholic forum therefore EC postings should be welcomed.

Offline Brendan03

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 544
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2004, 01:17:40 PM »
I think that religious polemics are an unfortunate exercise in futility for the most part.

I think that there is a lot of (1) misunderstanding/ignorance on the part of latin-rite catholics about the christian east in general (whether orthodox or catholic), (2) knee-jerk distaste/antagonism among certain segments of eastern orthodoxy about catholicism in general and (3) irritation/anxiety directed towards eastern catholics from all sides (not "catholic enough", not "eastern enough", not "orthodox enough").  To be honest, the eastern catholics have a tough, tough row to hoe, because everyone wants them to be something different, and they themselves have their own ideas about what they want to be, and so there are a lot of identity pressures and conformity issues coming from within and without.

B
B

Offline JoeS

  • (aka StMarkEofE)
  • Site Supporter
  • OC.net guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,122
  • Global Warming Enthusiast.
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2004, 03:39:24 PM »

An old saying:

East is East and West is West and never the 'twain shall meet? (totally that is)

JoeS

Offline Deacon Lance

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,131
  • Faith: Byzantine Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2004, 11:46:21 AM »
To bad more do not know the total quote:

"Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgment Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face, tho' they come from the ends of the earth!"  

from the Ballad of the east and West by Rudyard Kipling.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/1457/poem3.htm
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline gphadraig

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 220
  • OC.net
Re:Roman Catholic Ignorance of Eastern Churches
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2004, 09:10:47 PM »
I met a Latin priest once and when he learnt I was Orthodox commenced asking in a hectoring tone, "What rite?" I hadn't a clue what he was on about and nor had anyone else.

An Orthodox priest heard this story and said he had run into a similar situation when in the company of another Orthodox priest. He appeared to have a better grasp of it, but managed to leave the Latin cleric confused. He replied, "I am of the Russian church but dressed in the Greek fashion and my colleague belongs to the Greeks but is dressed in the Russian style. I am a monk and he is a married priest". The enquirer's mouth dropped open and he apparently said not a word more.

The poster who posited a view of us not fitting into their constructs or boxes had a point, I feel. Some Greeks have said this was and is a characteristic of the Latins. Handy if you are a zoologist or botanist. Perhaps it goes some way to explaining the reaction of Irish Catholic bishops in America during the early 20th century when presented with a Uniate married priest. Horror of horrors, for them. Well if you have been brought up in the belief there are Catholics - the faithful - and protestants - the heretics, and then pagans and the like; anyone else claiming to be a Christian upsets your world-view and like as not you will show your resentment of their intrusion. And if the cheeky so-and-so then turns around and says he was here first it would be enough to give you apoplexy!

Still I can't talk, I didn't know what a 'sedevacante' was until tonight.
Age is honourable and youth noble