OrthodoxChristianity.net
August 21, 2014, 02:08:46 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Paschal candle--type and color  (Read 1567 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek by desire; Antiochian by necessity
Posts: 5,929



« on: April 23, 2012, 12:25:22 PM »

Hey, all

For years, my parish priest has always lit a white candle for the Paschal candle and used this throughout the 40 days while he censes and given the Paschal blessing at the end of Vespers and Divine LIturgy.  This year, however, he purchased a three bar cross which holds three candles and has used this for the paschal blessing.

I admit I'm pretty ignorant about this particular custom.  So, my questions:  Is this three bar cross three candle typical of slavic churches?  Is the white candle typical of Greek churches?  If it is a slavic class, I, again, am getting pretty fed up with all the slavic influences coming into Greek or Arabic churches and giving way to the coming slavic hegemony. 
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2012, 12:43:25 PM »

I've seen a three candle holder - cross. Normal candles are usually used but I've seen the red ones once.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Punch
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Body of Christ
Posts: 5,259



« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2012, 12:55:41 PM »

Our priest uses a single candle with a red wax catcher.  The candle is natural beeswax color.  I think this is another "pious custom" issue rather than anything from the Typikon.
Logged

Orthodox only because of God and His Russians.
LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 12,853



WWW
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2012, 01:09:31 PM »


For Pascha our priest (Ukrainian) uses the a trikiri (holder with 3 candles).

Our church usually tries to stick with beeswax candles - more natural and pure.

Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
admiralnick
Cardinal, Editor for Photogalleries
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,880


« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2012, 03:33:25 PM »


For Pascha our priest (Ukrainian) uses the a trikiri (holder with 3 candles).

Our church usually tries to stick with beeswax candles - more natural and pure.



I was always under the impression that trikiri was reserved for a bishop's use. I was under the impression that there was a different name for the 3-bar Paschal candle.

-Nick
Logged

The ORIGINAL: "NULL"
LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 12,853



WWW
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2012, 03:34:34 PM »


Yeah...there probably is....and I just typed without thinking.

I think it's called the "Paschal three-candle holder".   Grin
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 03:38:00 PM by LizaSymonenko » Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 12,853



WWW
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2012, 03:37:43 PM »


This is what it looks like....

Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2012, 03:39:06 PM »

I was always under the impression that trikiri was reserved for a bishop's use. I was under the impression that there was a different name for the 3-bar Paschal candle.

-Nick

Unless the Presbyter is given a title of Archpresbryter which enables him to use dikirion and trikirion for blessings (it's propably only the PAOC thing).
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 03:39:26 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
age234
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 555


« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2012, 03:54:11 PM »

At my parish, which is comprised of mostly Arabs, my priest uses a single large white candle (about 30 inches in length and similar thickness of a soda can).
Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2012, 04:05:33 PM »

BTW: the wooden version:

Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 12,954


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2012, 04:19:05 PM »

I was watching today, and I think the candle had just a ribbon around it and possibly some kind of wax catcher.
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2012, 06:23:09 PM »

I admit I'm pretty ignorant about this particular custom.  So, my questions:  Is this three bar cross three candle typical of slavic churches?

I suspect so.

Is the white candle typical of Greek churches?

In my experience, yes, for what it's worth.

If it is a slavic class, I, again, am getting pretty fed up with all the slavic influences coming into Greek or Arabic churches and giving way to the coming slavic hegemony.

I can appreciate your sense of disquiet.
Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,206


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2012, 07:32:54 PM »


This is what it looks like....



I am a Slav and I never saw such a thing...the priest always used a white candle...except for last year when our priest came back from pilgrimage to the Holy Land with a souvenir from the Holy Sepulchre...it was thirty three beeswax candles banded together..He used it and he looked the Statue of Liberty and almost caught on fire. This year - back to white candle! 
Logged
LBK
Moderated
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,483


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2012, 07:43:07 PM »


This is what it looks like....



I am a Slav and I never saw such a thing...the priest always used a white candle...except for last year when our priest came back from pilgrimage to the Holy Land with a souvenir from the Holy Sepulchre...it was thirty three beeswax candles banded together..He used it and he looked the Statue of Liberty and almost caught on fire. This year - back to white candle! 

All the Slavic churches in the city where I live use these three-candle crosses. Priests in Greek churches here use either a single candle, or three candles tied together so that two candles form an X-shape, with the third being vertical.
Logged
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek by desire; Antiochian by necessity
Posts: 5,929



« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2012, 08:36:02 PM »


This is what it looks like....



That's EXACTLY what our priest got.
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2012, 09:29:08 PM »

Our parish uses this, and I've always associated it with the Slavic tradition.

All the service books I've read call this the "Paschal trikirion."
Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,576



« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2012, 11:33:28 PM »

The paschal trikirion in question (the one in the picture two posts above) is obviously slavic, as it has the slavonic lettering (may have been a gift from someone).  That being said, the tradition of the single candle exists both in Slavic and Greek tradition and so does the Paschal Trikiri.   There is also the tradition of intertwined (braided) 3 candles, 9 candles (3x3), 33 "side-stacked" candles, among other things under the sun.  The point is that triple (of various designs), thick single, side stacked and braided candles are all used by all traditions.  Among the Slavs Carpies tend to use single, Ukrainians and Russians triple.  Romanians are various, some regions preferring one and some preferring the other.  The Greeks have "all of the above."  Some of the triple candle variety have stands others do not.  Some have crosses attached others do not.  As Bishop Jerome of ROCOR says, there are 33 ways of doing things in Orthodoxy and 33 ways of doing the 33 ways (maybe he said 17, but you get the point).   
Logged
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2012, 06:46:59 AM »

If it is a slavic class, I, again, am getting pretty fed up with all the slavic influences coming into Greek or Arabic churches and giving way to the coming slavic hegemony. 

I have to say I sympathise with you. In the cases where Slavic practice represents an older retention of the Byzantine rite, I don't have any problem with it, but I too am getting fairly tired of the idea that all things Russian are "right" and the eagerness of some in the Greco-Arab churches to unquestioningly adopt them as such.
Logged
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2012, 06:49:47 AM »

If it is a slavic class, I, again, am getting pretty fed up with all the slavic influences coming into Greek or Arabic churches and giving way to the coming slavic hegemony. 

I have to say I sympathise with you. In the cases where Slavic practice represents an older retention of the Byzantine rite, I don't have any problem with it, but I too am getting fairly tired of the idea that all things Russian are "right" and the eagerness of some in the Greco-Arab churches to unquestioningly adopt them as such.

Yeah, like the prayer of the third hour.
Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
Alpo
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox. With some feta, please.
Posts: 6,600



« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2012, 07:10:07 AM »

If it is a slavic class, I, again, am getting pretty fed up with all the slavic influences coming into Greek or Arabic churches and giving way to the coming slavic hegemony.  

I have to say I sympathise with you. In the cases where Slavic practice represents an older retention of the Byzantine rite, I don't have any problem with it, but I too am getting fairly tired of the idea that all things Russian are "right" and the eagerness of some in the Greco-Arab churches to unquestioningly adopt them as such.

I would understand that if we were talking about Greece, Antioch or some other customarily Greek area but what's wrong with it in diaspora?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 07:10:24 AM by Alpo » Logged
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2012, 07:28:15 AM »

I would understand that if we were talking about Greece, Antioch or some other customarily Greek area but what's wrong with it in diaspora?

What's right about it? It's the "Russian is more correct" attitude behind it that bothers me.
Logged
Alpo
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox. With some feta, please.
Posts: 6,600



« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2012, 07:38:48 AM »

I would understand that if we were talking about Greece, Antioch or some other customarily Greek area but what's wrong with it in diaspora?

What's right about it?

*shrugs*

I just thought that since there isn't really any traditional practice for most of the Western Europe and Americas mixing of different Byzantine traditions isn't necessarily that wrong.


Quote
It's the "Russian is more correct" attitude behind it that bothers me.

Well that is a whole another issue. That would bother me too.
Logged
age234
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 555


« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2012, 08:32:47 AM »

If it is a slavic class, I, again, am getting pretty fed up with all the slavic influences coming into Greek or Arabic churches and giving way to the coming slavic hegemony. 

I have to say I sympathise with you. In the cases where Slavic practice represents an older retention of the Byzantine rite, I don't have any problem with it, but I too am getting fairly tired of the idea that all things Russian are "right" and the eagerness of some in the Greco-Arab churches to unquestioningly adopt them as such.

Yeah, like the prayer of the third hour.

I even know Russian priests who think that tradition is bizarre.
Logged
LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 12,853



WWW
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2012, 10:02:05 AM »


What tradition?  The 3 candles?  Why is it bizarre? 

Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,206


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2012, 10:10:00 AM »

The paschal trikirion in question (the one in the picture two posts above) is obviously slavic, as it has the slavonic lettering (may have been a gift from someone).  That being said, the tradition of the single candle exists both in Slavic and Greek tradition and so does the Paschal Trikiri.   There is also the tradition of intertwined (braided) 3 candles, 9 candles (3x3), 33 "side-stacked" candles, among other things under the sun.  The point is that triple (of various designs), thick single, side stacked and braided candles are all used by all traditions.  Among the Slavs Carpies tend to use single, Ukrainians and Russians triple.  Romanians are various, some regions preferring one and some preferring the other.  The Greeks have "all of the above."  Some of the triple candle variety have stands others do not.  Some have crosses attached others do not.  As Bishop Jerome of ROCOR says, there are 33 ways of doing things in Orthodoxy and 33 ways of doing the 33 ways (maybe he said 17, but you get the point).   

If the internet teaches us anything, it is that within our beloved Orthodox world there are so many varied and beautiful traditions. The times when one could say, this is Orthodox or that is MORE Orthodox than what do should be behind us.This little bit of this and a little bit of that has created confusion and chaos in the minds of many souls and parishes. Bishop Jerome was certainly on the money with that comment!

My brother, who is a priest,  came back from the Holy Land last year with one of those 33 side-stacked candles. He was so excited he could hardly wait for Matins. It was bright - like the Statue of Liberty! When we went outside, a gust shot up and nearly caught him and the deacon on fire! My sister-in-law laid down the law and this year - voila - back to one candle!
Logged
age234
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 555


« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2012, 11:17:45 AM »


What tradition?  The 3 candles?  Why is it bizarre? 



No, the insertion of the prayer of the third hour at the Epiklesis. Which is off-topic, sorry. I was responding to akimori's post.

(The priest does say the prayer of course, as it is the tradition received.  But liturgically it's an odd thing.)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 11:19:08 AM by age234 » Logged
LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 12,853



WWW
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2012, 12:22:57 PM »


Got it.  Smiley
Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.098 seconds with 54 queries.