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Offline Big Chris

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Lord
« on: April 22, 2012, 06:13:20 PM »
Lord Jesus I am so confused.
 :(
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Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Lord
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2012, 06:22:21 PM »
Mint, if you'd care to share what you're confused about, we'd be glad to help out with some commentary on your situation, if that's what you want.

Lord have mercy, and grand your servant a clear mind to see the path to salvation with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Offline Nikolaostheservant

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Re: Lord
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2012, 06:24:33 PM »
Nothing to be confused abt--only one god exists, keep your mind on him and all will be ok :angel:

Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Lord
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2012, 09:36:37 PM »
Lord Jesus I am so confused.
 :(

By your faith you are Catholic thinking of going Orthodox.

There are a couple of very truthful things to validate Orthodoxy over RC.

1) The councils always had an even vote, and at no time was the successor of Peter's vote considered more than any other patriarch.
2) There are ancient prayers that say all the apostles were given the keys to heaven.
3) The equal vote leaves Christ as the head of the church, rather than a pope.
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Offline Big Chris

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Re: Lord
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2012, 09:57:30 PM »
Mint, if you'd care to share what you're confused about, we'd be glad to help out with some commentary on your situation, if that's what you want.

Well, it's just that I've been so sure of Orthodoxy for so long now.  Seriously, when I consider the question which best represents the fullness of the Faith - Catholicism or Orthodoxy - I honestly believe with my heart of hearts that the answer is Orthodoxy.  However, after attending Mass today with my fiancé and her family, I find that I could settle for Catholicism.  I've been Catholic (off and on) for 5 years now and have this love/hate relationship with both Catholicism and my parish.  I'm not excited about going through a whole other catechumenate to become Orthodox even though I am willing and think doing so is worth it.  I mean, I could just practice an Eastern spirituality as a Catholic, right?

I mean, this wasn't even an issue a month ago.  I was gung-ho Orthodox...and still am.  My faith has never felt more alive as when I've been practicing Orthodox.  My time as a Catholic has been fraught with constant spiritual wavering for various reasons.  It's been hard practicing Catholicism since Catholicism wears so many masks.  As an Orthodox, I feel rock solid.  Still, I feel a sadness in me because of the seeming disintegration of the Catholic Church, for leaving behind a history (as rocky as it may be).

Michael Kalina, this is nothing but a Faith issue and should remain in this forum.  This is not a Catholic-Orthodox discussion that needs to be had.
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Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Lord
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2012, 10:20:11 PM »
Mint, if you'd care to share what you're confused about, we'd be glad to help out with some commentary on your situation, if that's what you want.

Well, it's just that I've been so sure of Orthodoxy for so long now.  Seriously, when I consider the question which best represents the fullness of the Faith - Catholicism or Orthodoxy - I honestly believe with my heart of hearts that the answer is Orthodoxy.  However, after attending Mass today with my fiancé and her family, I find that I could settle for Catholicism.  I've been Catholic (off and on) for 5 years now and have this love/hate relationship with both Catholicism and my parish.  I'm not excited about going through a whole other catechumenate to become Orthodox even though I am willing and think doing so is worth it.  I mean, I could just practice an Eastern spirituality as a Catholic, right?

I mean, this wasn't even an issue a month ago.  I was gung-ho Orthodox...and still am.  My faith has never felt more alive as when I've been practicing Orthodox.  My time as a Catholic has been fraught with constant spiritual wavering for various reasons.  It's been hard practicing Catholicism since Catholicism wears so many masks.  As an Orthodox, I feel rock solid.  Still, I feel a sadness in me because of the seeming disintegration of the Catholic Church, for leaving behind a history (as rocky as it may be).

Michael Kalina, this is nothing but a Faith issue and should remain in this forum.  This is not a Catholic-Orthodox discussion that needs to be had.

I relate to how you feel.  Rest assured that Orthodoxy is 100% rock solid.  It's the fullness of the Christian Faith!!!  I had trouble after my conversion with missing my former RC Church.  When I had been Orthodox for a while, I went back to take in a mass.  It just wasn't as mesmerizing, and felt so empty.  Once you're firmly planted in the Orthodox Christian Faith and have communed with God Himself, nothing will feel the same :)


Also, alot of what you say has to do with the way the Church makes you feel.  Just trust that God is leading you, and you'll be fine.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 10:20:57 PM by trevor72694 »

Offline Cognomen

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Re: Lord
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2012, 10:35:16 PM »
I mean, I could just practice an Eastern spirituality as a Catholic, right?

Unfortunately, I think you probably know the answer to this, which is why you are facing such a dilemma.  I'm sorry that I don't have more time to expand on the topic, but "Eastern spirituality" must be joined with the Church and its sacraments.

Still, I empathize with aspects of your conflict.  For various reasons--some less compelling than yours--I recognized the legitimacy of the Orthodox Church but wished to remain loosely affiliated with it. 
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Lord
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2012, 10:37:33 PM »
...I find that I could settle for Catholicism.

You've just answered this for yourself.  

Why "settle"?

Why settle for the crumbs, when you are invited to the feast?

Perhaps, you could introduce your fiance to Orthodoxy.
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Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Lord
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2012, 10:54:33 PM »
...I find that I could settle for Catholicism.

You've just answered this for yourself.  

Why "settle"?

Why settle for the crumbs, when you are invited to the feast?

Perhaps, you could introduce your fiance to Orthodoxy.


Well put, as always! 

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Lord
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2012, 11:52:22 PM »

 ;D  I've missed you, Trevor!  Good to have you posting more.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Lord
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2012, 12:10:21 AM »

 ;D  I've missed you, Trevor!  Good to have you posting more.

Thanks, Liza!!!  I was going through a mini faith crisis, but I'm all better, through God's mercy!

Offline Hiwot

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Re: Lord
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2012, 08:22:32 AM »

Christ is Risen!


Lord Jesus I am so confused.
 :(

Dear Mint, others have already said what needed to be said, yet something in the way you voiced your plea struck a cord in me as I can hear it echoed in me as well so I could not pass this by without  tossing in my .02 cents.

My brother, I think being confused is not necessarily a bad thing it could be a huge sign that you are on the right path, it seems to me, that this is where superficiality ends and we start to pay attention to the complexity of life in general and our own selves in particular . There can be a false sense of contentment and certitude that can lead to stagnancy and spiritual slumber. I think its ok to be confused, to be awed, to be totally overwhelmed, to have our assumptions challenged I do not think we have to figure everything out especially when we are trying to interact with something beyond our intellect.   However that does not mean we will not have that urge to question when we are confronted with certain facts of reality that jar us out of our comfortable routine. Still, When we think enough to be confused, angry, etc.. Something, anything, other than the unaware existence we might be accustomed to, it could be a beginning of something extraordinary, something that has the potential to be transformative.


 Many have struggled with the incongruences of what they believe or expect a given concept or reality should be vs. with what it should not be, for instance Abba Anthony asked God why things happen the way they do in this world, and the answer given to him was something to the effect of ‘it is not beneficial to you to know the why of everything, attend to yourself’. The same with the question of the apostle Peter concerning St. John the beloved, the Lord answers, basically: what I will to do is for me to know, what is it to you? you follow me! In spiritual life I think it is so fundamental to recognize that there is a path we must travel alone , a deeply personal journey to establish a personal relationship. yet it is done not from somewhere out in space and time where everything and everyone is perfect but within this fallen world, fallen humanity with its fallen ego that masks the divine image and likeness in the person.so it seems to me, it will not be beneficial for the true seeker of Truth to say I would have been able to believe in this truth or this path if only all of these people who say they believe it also are living strictly by it. Though such people have the potential to cause us great pain because the pain inflicted comes in a package that should have been safe for us to receive, As it is not beneficial for those who are on the path to misuse their gift of strength against their brethren and persecute them in the name of righteousness.


So then for the Christian, Christ, teaches us that the Father wants those that worship him to worship in Spirit and Truth. Keep in mind that he said this to the Samaritan woman who told him about the reason for the separation of the Jews and the Samaritans. I believe that those who are true in their search, and love truth for itself will guided by the Spirit find Him : the Truth, the Way and the Life. ‘ seek and you shall find!’ one of the most beautiful welcome in the Gospel is how Jesus welcomes Nathanael  it always moves me deeply as I see it being said to all genuine lovers of the truth ,that come with sincere hearts seeking  the Truth.  As you know in the Gospel we see how different people followed Christ for different reasons not all of them for the right reasons. For instance we see how quickly the hosanna turned into crucify him, why we may ask, I think it is because truth is not always what we define it to be, and we each react differently to the disappointment. it asks us to accept it for what it is, they had an idea of what the Christ should be and do, and when that did not happen rather than abandon their preconceived ideas and rules, they said ‘away with him! Crucify him!’  oh they even said ‘ we have no king but Caesar’ ironic that they were hoping for a messiah that will kick Caesar and his rule into oblivion. The point is, whatever we may choose to do, it will be best if we do it in a personal relationship with truth. The Messaih himself tells us ‘ everyone who is of the truth hears my voice!’ Psalm 94/95 7-8  “Today if you will hear his voice, Harden not your heart”  We cannot shift blame to this person or that organization, remember giving excuse did not work in the garden of Eden for the first one of us,  it certainly will not work us before the all illuminating light of the Truth. Each is personally called for a union and the answer must be personal. But here keep in mind even though we do not know them our God indeed has men and women who love and serve him with all their heart with all their strength, with all their soul as we read the beautiful chapter of 1 kings 19, we know that we do not know, we see that we do not see as he knows and sees, even the great prophet could not see and in not seeing and knowing he angered much, feared much, even wished to die by the hand of God, until he listened to the subtle  gentel voice of Truth  from the stillness .

 Wherever you end up in your search I pray you do it for the right reason, even Nathanael came with the right amount of skepticism because of his deep fidelity for truth ( it is okay to have these sincere skepticisms , because we are dealing with something that deeply matters) but  when he found it he did not hesitate to embrace it. He was a genuine seeker and he has found the pearl of great price, underline the great price, so if we are honest with ourselves it is not unreasonable to question that perhaps it is not finding it that might scare us but, the asking price. The gospel is replete with those who turned back and went back to their former way of life disappointed that the price was what they were unwilling to pay. The great price of not just contemplating it in an abstract intellectual manner but living Now in the Truth, what it might do to our ego , what it might do to our preconceived ideas and comfort zones, what it might have us Be…


As far as your question is the right question and you are a seeker of Truth… I will dare to say the answer is Jesus Christ the Son, the Wisdom and the Power of the Father…. So for those who are asking the right question… the answer is always … come and See! Because those who love the truth will recognize it when they see it and more importantly the Truth knows and welcomes them!
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 08:25:05 AM by Hiwot »
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Offline mike

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Re: Lord
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2012, 08:55:19 AM »
Michael Kalina, this is nothing but a Faith issue and should remain in this forum.  This is not a Catholic-Orthodox discussion that needs to be had.

So why are you posting in that section?  :angel:
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 08:55:33 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Offline Big Chris

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Re: Lord
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2012, 10:19:19 AM »

Why settle for the crumbs, when you are invited to the feast?

Perhaps, you could introduce your fiance to Orthodoxy.


As I said, my fiance supports me in my decision to become Orthodox.  She even wants to have an Orthodox wedding, if possible.  She thinks she would like to become Orthodox one day, as well, but she isn't as familiar/comfortable with "all things Orthodox" like I am.

I know that one shouldn't settle for crumbs - but there was a time (not that long ago according to the relatively short span of my years) when, not being familiar with the beauty of Orthodoxy, that I considered Catholicism to be more than just crumbs but the real, true thing.  As a Catholic, I never considered the differences between the Catholicism and Orthodoxy so much as the similarities - which is typical.  Regardless, for a period of time I was an extremely devout Catholic - daily Mass, daily rosary, Liturgy of the Hours, RCIA catechist, Knights of Columbus, Stewardship Commission.  I was very well known in my parish.  Then, one day, that all kind of disintegrated - and it was a very painful disintegration which caused me a lot of pain and anger.  It started with me falling prey to the neo-Arianism of modern biblical scholarship, then I found the Stewardship Commission unbearable, and then I found myself raging against the hypocrisy of both the Vatican and American bishopric.  As I said earlier, Catholicism wears so many masks it's difficult to know what truly is a part of the faith and what isn't!  Political and personal opinion have become so confused in the Catholic Church, catechumen often just pick up on the dominant opinion of their local parish and dogmatize it.  However, there are rays of light in the Catholic Church, certain persons who seem to have solidarity in their faith as Catholics and can weather all the beaurocratic tripe with delicate, sophisticated ease.  My pastor at my former Catholic parish is such a person and many other people there, the editors and contributors of America: National Catholic Weekly, and many, many ordained religious.  If they can do it, why haven't I been able to?


I've been reading about the various minor schisms within Orthodoxy, the squabbles between the modernist-ecumenitsts and the strict traditionalists, and other political agendas - and none of it bothers me...yet.  In some sense, I feel like I'm isolated from the larger, more complex scale of these matters, attending a very small Orthodox parish here in North Carolina.  What matters is my relationship to this parish - which, thus far, has been very good, very positive.  I find the Liturgies to be a more complete form of worship even though my spiritual practice at home concentrates on silence.  (Did I mention that I once inquired into joining a Trappist monastery?)  And something about Orthodoxy - I don't know what - has really helped me have a more close relationship with Christ than I ever had as a pious Catholic.  Of course, that could all simply be psychological.  Who knows - I may be able to having a close relationship with Christ as a Catholic, taking with me what I've learned from Orthodoxy.
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Offline Azul

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Re: Lord
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2012, 10:34:19 AM »
Lord Jesus I am so confused.
 :(

Welcome aboard  8)
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Lord
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2012, 10:50:09 AM »
Mint, if you'd care to share what you're confused about, we'd be glad to help out with some commentary on your situation, if that's what you want.

Well, it's just that I've been so sure of Orthodoxy for so long now.  Seriously, when I consider the question which best represents the fullness of the Faith - Catholicism or Orthodoxy - I honestly believe with my heart of hearts that the answer is Orthodoxy.  However, after attending Mass today with my fiancé and her family, I find that I could settle for Catholicism.  I've been Catholic (off and on) for 5 years now and have this love/hate relationship with both Catholicism and my parish.  I'm not excited about going through a whole other catechumenate to become Orthodox even though I am willing and think doing so is worth it.  I mean, I could just practice an Eastern spirituality as a Catholic, right?

I mean, this wasn't even an issue a month ago.  I was gung-ho Orthodox...and still am.  My faith has never felt more alive as when I've been practicing Orthodox.  My time as a Catholic has been fraught with constant spiritual wavering for various reasons.  It's been hard practicing Catholicism since Catholicism wears so many masks.  As an Orthodox, I feel rock solid.  Still, I feel a sadness in me because of the seeming disintegration of the Catholic Church, for leaving behind a history (as rocky as it may be).

Michael Kalina, this is nothing but a Faith issue and should remain in this forum.  This is not a Catholic-Orthodox discussion that needs to be had.

Look at which church follows more of the ancient traditions of Christianity.   Look at the richness, depth, and who actually leads the church.   In Orthodoxy, it is Jesus Christ who leads the church, as in the tradition of the ecumenical councils that included all the patriarchs.

In the RC church it is the "vicar of Christ" (vicar meaning in place of) aka - the Pope  (at one time he was called the "vicar of Peter") who leads the church.  Even to the point he is called infallible - which I personally find blasphemous.

I'd suggest calling an Eastern Orthodox monastery in your area and asking if you could spend a weekend there.   Go into some solitude, prayer, and be near the monks.  This will often bring you clarity.
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Offline Big Chris

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Re: Lord
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2012, 11:08:35 AM »

In the RC church it is the "vicar of Christ" (vicar meaning in place of) aka - the Pope  (at one time he was called the "vicar of Peter") who leads the church.  Even to the point he is called infallible - which I personally find blasphemous.

The historicity and dogmatics of the papacy isn't a huge stumbling block for me even if many Popes have been very clumsy.
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Offline Big Chris

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Re: Lord
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2012, 11:13:05 AM »
Could a mod please move this thread to the Convert Issues forum?
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Offline Azul

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Re: Lord
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2012, 11:21:27 AM »
Mint, if you'd care to share what you're confused about, we'd be glad to help out with some commentary on your situation, if that's what you want.

Well, it's just that I've been so sure of Orthodoxy for so long now.  Seriously, when I consider the question which best represents the fullness of the Faith - Catholicism or Orthodoxy - I honestly believe with my heart of hearts that the answer is Orthodoxy.  However, after attending Mass today with my fiancé and her family, I find that I could settle for Catholicism.  I've been Catholic (off and on) for 5 years now and have this love/hate relationship with both Catholicism and my parish.  I'm not excited about going through a whole other catechumenate to become Orthodox even though I am willing and think doing so is worth it.  I mean, I could just practice an Eastern spirituality as a Catholic, right?

I mean, this wasn't even an issue a month ago.  I was gung-ho Orthodox...and still am.  My faith has never felt more alive as when I've been practicing Orthodox.  My time as a Catholic has been fraught with constant spiritual wavering for various reasons.  It's been hard practicing Catholicism since Catholicism wears so many masks.  As an Orthodox, I feel rock solid.  Still, I feel a sadness in me because of the seeming disintegration of the Catholic Church, for leaving behind a history (as rocky as it may be).

Michael Kalina, this is nothing but a Faith issue and should remain in this forum.  This is not a Catholic-Orthodox discussion that needs to be had.

Look at which church follows more of the ancient traditions of Christianity.   Look at the richness, depth, and who actually leads the church.   In Orthodoxy, it is Jesus Christ who leads the church, as in the tradition of the ecumenical councils that included all the patriarchs.

In the RC church it is the "vicar of Christ" (vicar meaning in place of) aka - the Pope  (at one time he was called the "vicar of Peter") who leads the church.  Even to the point he is called infallible - which I personally find blasphemous.

I'd suggest calling an Eastern Orthodox monastery in your area and asking if you could spend a weekend there.   Go into some solitude, prayer, and be near the monks.  This will often bring you clarity.

I don`t see anything authoritative in Orthodoxy.
Every formula of every religion has in this age of reason, to submit to the acid test of reason and universal assent.
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Offline Big Chris

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Re: Lord
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2012, 01:59:22 PM »
I just realized something - something which I've squelched out during this whole time:

The thing that pisses me off about Pope Benedict XVI is his staunchly conservative rhetoric and his attempt to return the Church to the 1500s.  I've been following the ongoing investigation of the Vatican into controlling the LCWR, and it strikes me that this is yet another example of the uber-Traditionalists pharisaically reacting against a modernist, liberal segment of the Church which is successfully living the Faith but diverges on secondary issues of Tradition (e.g., support for women's ordination).

In short, there's something about Tradition which is comforting, solid, and real - but there is also something about Tradition which irks me, especially when it is used as a crutch as the current pontiff frequently does.
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Lord
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2012, 02:12:21 PM »
mint,

i'm not sure if you have mentioned this before, and if so I apologize.

Have you had a sit down with your orthodox priest about some of these issues that are bothering you? Also, have you attended any catechesis classes? Just curious...

Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: Lord
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2012, 02:28:06 PM »
I just realized something - something which I've squelched out during this whole time:

The thing that pisses me off about Pope Benedict XVI is his staunchly conservative rhetoric and his attempt to return the Church to the 1500s.  I've been following the ongoing investigation of the Vatican into controlling the LCWR, and it strikes me that this is yet another example of the uber-Traditionalists pharisaically reacting against a modernist, liberal segment of the Church which is successfully living the Faith but diverges on secondary issues of Tradition (e.g., support for women's ordination).

In short, there's something about Tradition which is comforting, solid, and real - but there is also something about Tradition which irks me, especially when it is used as a crutch as the current pontiff frequently does.

Ordaining women has absolutely no more place in Orthodoxy than in Catholicism. I'm sure you know but... this is post is really strange sounding, as if you think Orthodoxy has a different belief on ordaining women, which it doesn't.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 02:29:39 PM by Jason.Wike »

Offline Big Chris

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Re: Lord
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2012, 02:44:28 PM »
Ordaining women has absolutely no more place in Orthodoxy than in Catholicism. I'm sure you know but... this is post is really strange sounding, as if you think Orthodoxy has a different belief on ordaining women, which it doesn't.

Well, what I said in my last post has less to do with the ordination of women than it does with my general strong reaction against uber-Traditionalism, especially a Traditionalism that hostilely reacts against that which it perceives as threatening.  I'm talking Inquisition here, for example.  My unspoken point being this:  Why on God's green earth would I ever think that I could find Orthodoxy bearable when its reliance upon Tradition is often more over-bearing than Pope Benedict XVI's and his cronies?

I'm not talking Protestant-style rejection of Tradition because I think Tradition is beautiful and extremely helpful and necessary in matters of faith.
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Offline Big Chris

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Re: Lord
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2012, 02:53:50 PM »
mint,

i'm not sure if you have mentioned this before, and if so I apologize.

Have you had a sit down with your orthodox priest about some of these issues that are bothering you? Also, have you attended any catechesis classes? Just curious...

I haven't been to Liturgy in a few weeks for different reasons - mostly being out of town, away from the parish.  I have kept in touch with the pastor, though.  He and I initially touched upon some of these matters when we first met, but since then they are becoming more refined and I haven't had an opportunity to discuss them with him.  The clarity and lucidity of these matters are largely due to the fact that I am scheduled to meet with my Catholic pastor in order to express my decision to move away from Catholicism and towards Orthodoxy, and I find my mind often ruminating over what I need/want to say.  I hope to meet with my Orthodox pastor again sometime in the next month or so.
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Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: Lord
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2012, 02:57:59 PM »
How is believing what you say you believe is true (ie. Apostolic tradition) "over bearing?" Its not, its just simple believing as you say you do.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 03:02:01 PM by Jason.Wike »

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Lord
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2012, 03:00:33 PM »
mint,

i'm not sure if you have mentioned this before, and if so I apologize.

Have you had a sit down with your orthodox priest about some of these issues that are bothering you? Also, have you attended any catechesis classes? Just curious...

I haven't been to Liturgy in a few weeks for different reasons - mostly being out of town, away from the parish.  I have kept in touch with the pastor, though.  He and I initially touched upon some of these matters when we first met, but since then they are becoming more refined and I haven't had an opportunity to discuss them with him.  The clarity and lucidity of these matters are largely due to the fact that I am scheduled to meet with my Catholic pastor in order to express my decision to move away from Catholicism and towards Orthodoxy, and I find my mind often ruminating over what I need/want to say.  I hope to meet with my Orthodox pastor again sometime in the next month or so.

ok, when are you scheduled to meet with the Catholic Pastor? If you have a deadline to tell him how you are feeling and you don't feel ready, don't let that deadline pressure you into making a decision. Just call it off and say you need more time to think about things. I wouldn't cut off ties until you are certain. But in the meantime, you can continue talking to EO priest about some of this issues that are still on your mind. Since Pascha is over i'm sure he would have more time to see you. I would just be honest with him and tell him you are struggling, i'm sure he will understand. This is a very difficult decision, and not one to be taken lightly, as I'm sure you understand.

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Lord
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2012, 03:01:53 PM »
also, you may want to ask your EO priest if you can attend catechesis sessions as an inquirer (if you haven't been already). That helped me alot, as I was allowed to do that and learn alot without having to commit beforehand.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 03:02:46 PM by Ortho_cat »

Offline witega

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Re: Lord
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2012, 03:53:27 PM »
Ordaining women has absolutely no more place in Orthodoxy than in Catholicism. I'm sure you know but... this is post is really strange sounding, as if you think Orthodoxy has a different belief on ordaining women, which it doesn't.

Well, what I said in my last post has less to do with the ordination of women than it does with my general strong reaction against uber-Traditionalism, especially a Traditionalism that hostilely reacts against that which it perceives as threatening.  I'm talking Inquisition here, for example.  My unspoken point being this:  Why on God's green earth would I ever think that I could find Orthodoxy bearable when its reliance upon Tradition is often more over-bearing than Pope Benedict XVI's and his cronies?

I'm not talking Protestant-style rejection of Tradition because I think Tradition is beautiful and extremely helpful and necessary in matters of faith.

I may be misunderstanding, but it seems like you are still not completely clear in your own mind here. You know you respect Tradition--but there are uses of Tradition that you object to, and you are still working out the distinguishing line?

Assuming I have that correct, it is certainly an issue you will have to explore as you approach Orthodoxy. But one thing to keep in mind is that "Traditionalism" as such does not do anything--it does not get defensive or perceive or react. It is Traditional individuals who do such.

Accordingly, I can absolutely guarantee that whatever that distinguishing line is for you, you will encounter individuals who cross it from your perspective--and that you will cross other people's lines. A good number of the more contentious threads on the Faith issues part of this forum are exactly about Orthodox, all of whom respect the Tradition, arguing about the dividing line between proper respect for Tradition and either hyper-traditionalism on one side or hypo-traditionalism on the other.

Now the answer may be as simple as the fact that the Pope's unique position within Roman Catholicism makes disagreement with his behavior with regard to the line categorically different from other disagreements. That is, in Orthodoxy, there is no single arbiter--we discuss and debate and this continues until either a working consensus is reached (whether through the formal vehicle of a conciliar decision, or informally) or we just continue to discuss and debate. Many Romans explicitly see this as a weakness in the Orthodox model--whereas we see it as the Apostolic model, regardless of whether its the most efficient way to go about it or not. Or the answer may be something considerably more nuanced as you continue to explore it.
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Offline KShaft

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Re: Lord
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2012, 04:19:17 PM »
I just realized something - something which I've squelched out during this whole time:

The thing that pisses me off about Pope Benedict XVI is his staunchly conservative rhetoric and his attempt to return the Church to the 1500s.  I've been following the ongoing investigation of the Vatican into controlling the LCWR, and it strikes me that this is yet another example of the uber-Traditionalists pharisaically reacting against a modernist, liberal segment of the Church which is successfully living the Faith but diverges on secondary issues of Tradition (e.g., support for women's ordination).

In short, there's something about Tradition which is comforting, solid, and real - but there is also something about Tradition which irks me, especially when it is used as a crutch as the current pontiff frequently does.

What was handed down from Christ to the Apostles, to the Church fathers etc... is a 'crutch'?  Well, maybe you should stay Roman, and maybe join a charismatic group while your at it.


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Re: Lord
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2012, 04:22:25 PM »
Mint, I would just say that a talk with a priest is in order. It's okay to start out with questions- I think most people do- but if you have serious qualms, take them to someone who is able to discuss it in more depth.
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Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: Lord
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2012, 04:34:25 PM »
I just realized something - something which I've squelched out during this whole time:

The thing that pisses me off about Pope Benedict XVI is his staunchly conservative rhetoric and his attempt to return the Church to the 1500s.  I've been following the ongoing investigation of the Vatican into controlling the LCWR, and it strikes me that this is yet another example of the uber-Traditionalists pharisaically reacting against a modernist, liberal segment of the Church which is successfully living the Faith but diverges on secondary issues of Tradition (e.g., support for women's ordination).

In short, there's something about Tradition which is comforting, solid, and real - but there is also something about Tradition which irks me, especially when it is used as a crutch as the current pontiff frequently does.

What was handed down from Christ to the Apostles, to the Church fathers etc... is a 'crutch'?  Well, maybe you should stay Roman, and maybe join a charismatic group while your at it.



I was thinking about this some more... by calling it a "crutch" you make it sound like the Pope (and everyone) that doesn't believe in ordaining women does so because of some pre-existing misogynistic attitude, rather than because they believe in Apostolic teaching?

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Re: Lord
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2012, 02:55:07 PM »
So, I e-mailed the Orthodox priest to say that I had some anger, resentment and disappointment issues with the Catholic Church and maybe the thing to do would be to go back to being Catholic and handle these issues.  And he responds and says, 'OK.  Farewell.'

This isn't a huge Orthodox parish, and as strongly as I've intimated that I LOVE Orthodoxy, I thought he'd at least want to discuss this decision, not that I expected him to.  I'm just surprised by how quickly I was brushed off.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Lord
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2012, 03:24:05 PM »

I'm sorry to hear that, Mint.

Perhaps he misunderstood you, or was preoccupied.  Who knows.

I for one would never advocate anyone leaving (nor exploring) Orthodoxy!

Come and see what we're all about!

PS.  One priest, and even one parish, doesn't compile the whole Church.  Don't let this single experience tarnish your view of Orthodoxy.

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Offline Big Chris

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Re: Lord
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2012, 03:52:42 PM »

I'm sorry to hear that, Mint.

Perhaps he misunderstood you, or was preoccupied.  Who knows.

I for one would never advocate anyone leaving (nor exploring) Orthodoxy!

Come and see what we're all about!

PS.  One priest, and even one parish, doesn't compile the whole Church.  Don't let this single experience tarnish your view of Orthodoxy.



Thanks, Liza.  In a way, I think this priest was sort of waiting for me to say anything about returning to Catholicism as a sort of litmus test of my fidelity to Orthodoxy or something.  When we met for lunch on our first occassion, I mostly talked about how disillusioned I had become with Catholicism and how my spirit soared when practicing Orthodoxy.  At one of the Liturgies of the Presanctified, he asked me if their was anything in the Catholic Church like it.  So, I think he always kind of regarded me as this confused Catholic visitor who was taking a vacation from the Pope.  Confused, yes.  Catholic, yes.  But I sincerely wanted to become Orthodox.
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Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Lord
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2012, 03:53:28 PM »
So, I e-mailed the Orthodox priest to say that I had some anger, resentment and disappointment issues with the Catholic Church and maybe the thing to do would be to go back to being Catholic and handle these issues.  And he responds and says, 'OK.  Farewell.'

This isn't a huge Orthodox parish, and as strongly as I've intimated that I LOVE Orthodoxy, I thought he'd at least want to discuss this decision, not that I expected him to.  I'm just surprised by how quickly I was brushed off.

Of course we can only speculate but perhaps he was respecting your decision. I imagine that Orthodox priests are fairly used to a lot of backing and forthing with converts. Mine wasn't pushy at all.
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Re: Lord
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2012, 04:00:02 PM »
But I sincerely wanted to become Orthodox.

....and you are going to let this dissuade you?

Come on!   You're stronger than that!

So what if you have unanswered questions about Catholicism.  Who cares?  You won't find answers there, anyway.

Look forward....don't be so easily beaten.

If not this Orthodox church, or this priest...find another!

We are here for you, and behind you....come on....

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline witega

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Re: Lord
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2012, 04:13:47 PM »
So, I e-mailed the Orthodox priest to say that I had some anger, resentment and disappointment issues with the Catholic Church and maybe the thing to do would be to go back to being Catholic and handle these issues.  And he responds and says, 'OK.  Farewell.'

This isn't a huge Orthodox parish, and as strongly as I've intimated that I LOVE Orthodoxy, I thought he'd at least want to discuss this decision, not that I expected him to.  I'm just surprised by how quickly I was brushed off.

People vary, and I can't really speak for the priest. However, there is a very strong ethos among many Orthodox (including the clergy) of not 'chasing down' converts, or attempting to pressure their decision in any way. Now whether this is a good or bad idea in general is a subject for another thread (and there have been several such on this forum).  And not knowing the details of your previous conversations with this priest or the exact wording of your message, I can't even make a guess whether it's the best idea in your specific case. But I can certainly see an Orthodox priest receiving the e-mail you've described and thinking 'He says he needs time to work out some of his issues with Catholicism. The *Christian* response is to give him time and space to do so.'--and sent back that email not as a brush-off but as a simple recognition honoring your choice. And that if you were to send the same priest an e-mail saying 'but I'd like to get your input on that', then he'd happily set up a time to get together and do just that--but he's not going to offer.

He who asks shall received and to him who knocks the door will be opened--but to him who wants to sit and think about it for awhile, will be given time to sit and think about it for awhile.
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Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Lord
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2012, 04:30:40 PM »
He who asks shall received and to him who knocks the door will be opened--but to him who wants to sit and think about it for awhile, will be given time to sit and think about it for awhile.

LOL!
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Offline JoyceV925

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Re: Lord
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2012, 10:19:19 AM »
So, I e-mailed the Orthodox priest to say that I had some anger, resentment and disappointment issues with the Catholic Church and maybe the thing to do would be to go back to being Catholic and handle these issues.  And he responds and says, 'OK.  Farewell.'

This isn't a huge Orthodox parish, and as strongly as I've intimated that I LOVE Orthodoxy, I thought he'd at least want to discuss this decision, not that I expected him to.  I'm just surprised by how quickly I was brushed off.

People vary, and I can't really speak for the priest. However, there is a very strong ethos among many Orthodox (including the clergy) of not 'chasing down' converts, or attempting to pressure their decision in any way. Now whether this is a good or bad idea in general is a subject for another thread (and there have been several such on this forum).  And not knowing the details of your previous conversations with this priest or the exact wording of your message, I can't even make a guess whether it's the best idea in your specific case. But I can certainly see an Orthodox priest receiving the e-mail you've described and thinking 'He says he needs time to work out some of his issues with Catholicism. The *Christian* response is to give him time and space to do so.'--and sent back that email not as a brush-off but as a simple recognition honoring your choice. And that if you were to send the same priest an e-mail saying 'but I'd like to get your input on that', then he'd happily set up a time to get together and do just that--but he's not going to offer.

He who asks shall received and to him who knocks the door will be opened--but to him who wants to sit and think about it for awhile, will be given time to sit and think about it for awhile.

I agree with witega. It seems the overall "attitude" of priests is more passive. They aren't recruiters or aggressive to gain members or converts. Orthodox clergy are probably some of the most Patient people I've ever met. So I agree had you said, "I'd like to discuss with you..." you would most likely have gotten a different response. Sounds to me like he's respecting your decision that you have some unanswered issues with the Catholic church that you'd like to resolve, which doesn't finitely say once you're resolved there you won't step back into an Orthodox church again. It's probably better if you do want to convert to Orthodoxy that you get all your dischord about the RC church out of your system anyway, that way you know absolutely without doubt that is not where you want to worship.

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Re: Lord
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2012, 11:31:00 AM »
Mint, I would say that the priest does not, and should not, try to convince you to convert. its not that he does not care, or is ambivalent. It seems to me that he wants you to be led by what you feel is best.

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Offline Big Chris

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Re: Lord
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2012, 12:57:09 PM »
It's probably better if you do want to convert to Orthodoxy that you get all your dischord about the RC church out of your system anyway, that way you know absolutely without doubt that is not where you want to worship.

How does one do that, though?

I mean, the obvious answer is time and prayer.  But does one go to therapy?  Does one go to one's Catholic priest and discuss what a failure your time as a Catholic has been spiritually?  Does one go to every Catholic priest in the diocese until you get the "right" answer?  I mean, it's obvious you don't discuss your frustrations and disappointments with an Orthodox priest or else you're left standing in the rain, being denied access to the catechumenate because your quarrels with the RCC remain unresolved.
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Offline witega

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Re: Lord
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2012, 01:14:33 PM »
It's probably better if you do want to convert to Orthodoxy that you get all your dischord about the RC church out of your system anyway, that way you know absolutely without doubt that is not where you want to worship.

How does one do that, though?

I mean, the obvious answer is time and prayer.  But does one go to therapy?  Does one go to one's Catholic priest and discuss what a failure your time as a Catholic has been spiritually?  Does one go to every Catholic priest in the diocese until you get the "right" answer?  I mean, it's obvious you don't discuss your frustrations and disappointments with an Orthodox priest or else you're left standing in the rain, being denied access to the catechumenate because your quarrels with the RCC remain unresolved.

But did you actually ask the Orthodox priest? Because your description above doesn't seem to match with your descriptions in your original post, and the responses you get here are going to be very different depending which is actually the case.

In your last communication to the priest did you say, "I have some issues with the RC Church I think I need to work out." or did you say, "I think I want to become Orthodox, but I have some issues with the RC Church I think I need to work out--what guidance would you give me about working through this?".

If what you said was the former, then my advice (and the advice of others on this thread) is to go back and say the latter.

If what you said was the latter, and the response you go from the priest was "okay, bye" then you will start getting different responses from us.
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Offline Big Chris

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Re: Lord
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2012, 03:35:41 PM »
In your last communication to the priest did you say, "I have some issues with the RC Church I think I need to work out." or did you say, "I think I want to become Orthodox, but I have some issues with the RC Church I think I need to work out--what guidance would you give me about working through this?".

If what you said was the former, then my advice (and the advice of others on this thread) is to go back and say the latter.

If what you said was the latter, and the response you go from the priest was "okay, bye" then you will start getting different responses from us.

I've been in contact with the priest, and he's stated that I have some issues with the RCC which I need to work out - though he won't give me direction on how.  I think that he wants me to continue to attending services at the parish and let the healing balm of prayer do all the working out.  I think he wants to be sure that I'm becoming Orthodox because I fully love and appreciate Orthodoxy, not because I'm angry with and running away from Catholicism - which makes complete sense.  It would be like divorcing from one spouse and rebounding with another when you're feelings feel the former haven't been completely resolved.

There are unresolved issues.  Yesterday on Catholic Answers Forums, I posted a scathing indictment against the RCC, stating that it wasn't the true church of Christ because of all the scandals which continue to beleaguer it, such as the sexual abuse crisis, the history of discrimination against women, monks becoming Zen priests while remaining in the monastery, etc..  However, it was an Orthodox person who commented that the presence of scandals is no way to tell the marks of the true Church - which I then agreed with.  I did comment in my journal, though, that these scandals have a profound way of affecting one's faith.  No sooner than I resolved myself that all churches, including the Orthodox Church, were imperfect and prone to scandal, and that the grass is hardly ever greener on the other side, I ran across a CAF thread dealing with why lapsed Catholics are lapsed Catholics.  I, already, sort of regard myself as a lapsed Catholic (I mean, I have 7 or 8 toes already out the door!  There are a few toes still clinging) so I was interested enough to see what other persons' reasons were for leaving.  I found myself commenting at great length on one fellow's post, discussing how many of the reasons why he lapsed were due to a combination of poor catechetical instruction in Catholicism and the fact that Catholicism seems to have lost the meaning of the Christian spiritual life.  To this lapsed Catholic, organized religion amounted to getting people to obey the rules and be a good person - which, when you consider, is what Western Christianity has amounted to - and I told him, "Well, fortunately, there's more to the story:  divinization is our true goal!" 

So, it's like, one moment I waver back to Catholicism and say, 'I've been Catholic for five years now; why throw that away?  I can live with it.  Sure, there are scandals and disagreements and faith can be difficult to sustain as a result, but there's a lot of good going on in the RCC as well, a lot of good saints who the Orthodox don't recognize, and the RCC could use me to teach about the riches that come from our Eastern brothers and sisters, riches that can help explain a lot and can give real definition to why we're Christian at all!"  The next moment, I reflect on how my heart naturally gravitates towards Orthodoxy, how even if I were to remain a Catholic would still prefer to cross myself in the Eastern manner, would still prefer to read Orthodox theology (in addition to trying to understand what in the devil happened at Vatican II which had lead to the ambiguity today!), would teach things from an Eastern mode, etc.. 

I'm supposed to meet with my Catholic priest on Friday after work in order to discuss all of this.  He's a very smart, level-headed man and I've enjoyed a decent relationship with him over the years.  He's done a number of things to help transform my life - so, there is some sentiment there.  While I'll tell him everything I've mentioned here, I would really like to say, 'I'm sorry, pastor, but for as beautiful and good as Catholicism can be, my heart belongs to the East," but I suspect that our conversation will feel so cathartic after having kept so much of this inside for so long (and, no offense, relaying it complete strangers online who don't know me) that I'll leave feeling renewed in my Catholic faith until I return home to my once again reflect that I'm not happy where I am.
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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Lord
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2012, 03:54:40 PM »
You cannot convert but by faith. If you are still angry with the RCC for whatever reason, it is best for all involved (you, the RCC, and any Orthodox Church you may be looking to join) to have these issues dealt with, rather than carried around so that you may dump them in some new location or have them warp your approach to and views of your new (and your old) church. While I wasn't so much angry at the RCC when I definitively left back in July of 2009, I was massively depressed and that depression caused me to act out in various ways that I'm very glad no church had to try to handle. So it is by the grace of God that I was not actually able to attend my first Orthodox liturgy in my new church until August of 2011. In the meantime, I had a lot to learn and unlearn. I'm sure I still do, but I can say honestly that I have least made this much progress, again for which I thank God: while I am absolutely convinced of Orthodoxy on its own merits (this might be a more helpful distinction for me than for you, as I attend an OO church and so the journey I am on is quite uncommon in comparison to the relatively steady stream of converts from RCism and other western traditions who attend the OCA or other EO churches, who are the source of many comparative "Orthodox answers for Roman Catholics" kinds of books, tracts, speeches, etc. to help people in your position), I am equally at peace with my time spent in the RCC. More so than that, I am thankful for it -- all of it -- because it was through that experience that I was able to appreciate Orthodoxy when I finally had the chance to experience it.

I hope that eventually you can say something similar about your journey, Mint. Until then, I would be very careful about rushing into or away from anything, lest you lose your moorings in an attempt to find your bearings.

Offline JoyceV925

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Re: Lord
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2012, 04:16:50 PM »

I'm supposed to meet with my Catholic priest on Friday after work in order to discuss all of this.  He's a very smart, level-headed man and I've enjoyed a decent relationship with him over the years.  He's done a number of things to help transform my life - so, there is some sentiment there.  While I'll tell him everything I've mentioned here, I would really like to say, 'I'm sorry, pastor, but for as beautiful and good as Catholicism can be, my heart belongs to the East," but I suspect that our conversation will feel so cathartic after having kept so much of this inside for so long (and, no offense, relaying it complete strangers online who don't know me) that I'll leave feeling renewed in my Catholic faith until I return home to my once again reflect that I'm not happy where I am.

I think you are looking at this from a fair and eyes-open POV. Trying to get both sides of the coin and as much info as you can before you make a decision to keep walking one way, or turn and go another. And if talking with your Catholic priest renews your faith in the RCC, than that is fantastic. I really don't see Orthodox vs Roman Catholic as an "us or them" kind of thing, but more importantly that people choose a path that works for them and provides the spiritual outlet/system they are looking for.

Offline witega

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Re: Lord
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2012, 01:19:20 AM »
I've been in contact with the priest, and he's stated that I have some issues with the RCC which I need to work out - though he won't give me direction on how.  I think that he wants me to continue to attending services at the parish and let the healing balm of prayer do all the working out.  I think he wants to be sure that I'm becoming Orthodox because I fully love and appreciate Orthodoxy, not because I'm angry with and running away from Catholicism - which makes complete sense.  It would be like divorcing from one spouse and rebounding with another when you're feelings feel the former haven't been completely resolved.

I didn't leave my previous church with these kinds of unresolved issues/anger--I just knew they didn't have answers to the questions I was asking, and Orthodoxy did--so I can't presume to give you a lot of advice about how to deal with them--certainly prayer as a default answer is never wrong (though it may not be the whole answer), but to this:

Quote
, 'I've been Catholic for five years now; why throw that away?  I can live with it.  Sure, there are scandals and disagreements and faith can be difficult to sustain as a result, but there's a lot of good going on in the RCC as well, a lot of good saints who the Orthodox don't recognize, and the RCC could use me to teach about the riches that come from our Eastern brothers and sisters, riches that can help explain a lot and can give real definition to why we're Christian at all!" 

You need to look to your own salvation first. You need to go to the place that will heal your soul. Hanging in somewhere that is not spiritually healthy for you because you think you might do good for others doesn't work. "Acquire the Spirit of Peace and thousands around you will be saved" (St. Seraphim)--but if you are not acquiring that Spirit, then you actually have nothing to offer others. You'll just die (little by little or on a greased slope, but either way) inside, and that death is all you'll have to offer others.
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For it were better to suffer everything, rather than divide the Church of God. Even martyrdom for the sake of preventing division would not be less glorious than for refusing to worship idols. - St. Dionysius the Great

Offline Big Chris

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Re: Lord
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2012, 08:47:51 AM »
You need to look to your own salvation first. You need to go to the place that will heal your soul. Hanging in somewhere that is not spiritually healthy for you because you think you might do good for others doesn't work. "Acquire the Spirit of Peace and thousands around you will be saved" (St. Seraphim)--but if you are not acquiring that Spirit, then you actually have nothing to offer others. You'll just die (little by little or on a greased slope, but either way) inside, and that death is all you'll have to offer others.

You're absolutely right.

I realized something after I posted what I did yesterday and reflected some more and came upon a striking truth:

The question that has been in the back of my mind hasn't been 'Why should I become Orthodox?' but 'Why should I remain Catholic?' 

The reasons I continue to come up with for remaining Catholic are clearly all the wrong reasons but I keep trying to convince myself of them.  Why?  Because I'm already Catholic, I've already done the work to become Catholic; staying Catholic is easy.  To become Orthodox, I have to wait, I have to continue learning, I have to gradually settle into the rhythm of an Orthodox identity, I have to go through the catechumenate; becoming Orthodox will take effort. 

When I came that realization, the anger and resentment I've recently felt towards the RCC melted away.  That ride was fun, it was necessary - but it's no longer useful.  And that's the end of it.  I've got to move on or else risk dying in the desert.

On a side note, I regret that I e-mailed my Orthodox priest with my thoughts concerning my confusion before those thoughts were fully formed and had reached their conclusion as above because now the opportunity to proximately become a catechumenate has eluded me.  All for the glory of God, though, right?  I now know that Orthodoxy is the definite path I want to be on and I really don't care how long it takes.  The journey continues...
Tasting is Believing

Offline witega

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Re: Lord
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2012, 02:33:08 PM »
You need to look to your own salvation first. You need to go to the place that will heal your soul. Hanging in somewhere that is not spiritually healthy for you because you think you might do good for others doesn't work. "Acquire the Spirit of Peace and thousands around you will be saved" (St. Seraphim)--but if you are not acquiring that Spirit, then you actually have nothing to offer others. You'll just die (little by little or on a greased slope, but either way) inside, and that death is all you'll have to offer others.

You're absolutely right.

I realized something after I posted what I did yesterday and reflected some more and came upon a striking truth:

The question that has been in the back of my mind hasn't been 'Why should I become Orthodox?' but 'Why should I remain Catholic?' 

The reasons I continue to come up with for remaining Catholic are clearly all the wrong reasons but I keep trying to convince myself of them.  Why?  Because I'm already Catholic, I've already done the work to become Catholic; staying Catholic is easy.  To become Orthodox, I have to wait, I have to continue learning, I have to gradually settle into the rhythm of an Orthodox identity, I have to go through the catechumenate; becoming Orthodox will take effort. 

When I came that realization, the anger and resentment I've recently felt towards the RCC melted away.  That ride was fun, it was necessary - but it's no longer useful.  And that's the end of it.  I've got to move on or else risk dying in the desert.

On a side note, I regret that I e-mailed my Orthodox priest with my thoughts concerning my confusion before those thoughts were fully formed and had reached their conclusion as above because now the opportunity to proximately become a catechumenate has eluded me.  All for the glory of God, though, right?  I now know that Orthodoxy is the definite path I want to be on and I really don't care how long it takes.  The journey continues...

Great news. Thank you for sharing.
Ariel Starling - New album

For it were better to suffer everything, rather than divide the Church of God. Even martyrdom for the sake of preventing division would not be less glorious than for refusing to worship idols. - St. Dionysius the Great

Offline Big Chris

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Re: Lord
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2012, 06:08:36 PM »
Met with my Catholic priest today.  He encouraged me to become Orthodox.  He said he could tell it gave me better roots than Catholicism.
Tasting is Believing

Offline Desiring_unity

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Re: Lord
« Reply #49 on: May 05, 2012, 02:26:58 AM »
Mint, I feel for you.  There's been an urgency in your posts that I'm completely familiar with.  The catehcumenate may not take as long as you think it will but then again, my advice is to let it be as long as it should.  There were a few posts here about EO priests not chasing after you and I've seen that to be true.  In fact, my priest has said that he wants us to wait until we get to a point where we can't NOT become Orthodox.  Dh said recently he's just not there yet.  I'm left waiting.  My priest would prefer to bring my whole family in together and I know deep down, he's right, but my own urgency gets in the way of seeing the wisdom.  My point is, shed yourself and you will find the sweetness of Orthodoxy...and by shedding yourself, you'll be able to bear the time in the catechumenate and see the fruit of it in the years to come.  May God's mercy be upon you. 
"Beloved in Christ, if you ever despair, wondering if what you do for God matters, remember: each single act of holiness is like a stone thrown into an ocean—the ripples go forth, and we do not know whom they touch or where they end."

From: http://www.antiochian.org/node/18911