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Offline biro

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Greek economic crisis hits church
« on: April 21, 2012, 11:01:34 AM »
The economic troubles of Greece have begun to take their toll on the church. Priests have faced pay cuts and soup kitchens which help the poor have also seen funding drop.

From the article:
Quote
Under the terms of an international bailout that saved Greece from bankruptcy, the government is cutting pay which for a typical parish priest is about 1,000 euros a month. Athens will also fund only one new priest to replace every 10 who retire or die, causing shortages in remote parishes during a deep recession when the flock most needs help.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Greek economic crisis hits church
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2012, 11:24:10 AM »
The economic troubles of Greece have begun to take their toll on the church. Priests have faced pay cuts and soup kitchens which help the poor have also seen funding drop.

From the article:
Quote
Under the terms of an international bailout that saved Greece from bankruptcy, the government is cutting pay which for a typical parish priest is about 1,000 euros a month. Athens will also fund only one new priest to replace every 10 who retire or die, causing shortages in remote parishes during a deep recession when the flock most needs help.

Of course this will give our Protestant missionary types the opening they need to move in. They have loads of cash for overseas missions.

There is something to be said for our American system in which each church has to figure out how to manage on its own rather than depend on government largesse. Of course Hellenic Food Fesitvals would be a tad redundant in Greece!  ;)

Offline Punch

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Re: Greek economic crisis hits church
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2012, 11:32:18 AM »
The economic troubles of Greece have begun to take their toll on the church. Priests have faced pay cuts and soup kitchens which help the poor have also seen funding drop.

From the article:
Quote
Under the terms of an international bailout that saved Greece from bankruptcy, the government is cutting pay which for a typical parish priest is about 1,000 euros a month. Athens will also fund only one new priest to replace every 10 who retire or die, causing shortages in remote parishes during a deep recession when the flock most needs help.

Of course this will give our Protestant missionary types the opening they need to move in. They have loads of cash for overseas missions.

There is something to be said for our American system in which each church has to figure out how to manage on its own rather than depend on government largesse. Of course Hellenic Food Fesitvals would be a tad redundant in Greece!  ;)

Well said. 
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Zenovia

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Re: Greek economic crisis hits church
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2012, 01:01:38 PM »
The economic troubles of Greece have begun to take their toll on the church. Priests have faced pay cuts and soup kitchens which help the poor have also seen funding drop.

From the article:
Quote
Under the terms of an international bailout that saved Greece from bankruptcy, the government is cutting pay which for a typical parish priest is about 1,000 euros a month. Athens will also fund only one new priest to replace every 10 who retire or die, causing shortages in remote parishes during a deep recession when the flock most needs help.

Of course this will give our Protestant missionary types the opening they need to move in. They have loads of cash for overseas missions.



The Protestant missions reach only those that are unchurched and that are starting their spiritual journey, so in that sense they are desperately needed for a certain segment of society.  Culturally though they are alien to the Greeks, and also lack the fullness of Grace existent in the Orthodox church so I don't know what the fear is?  ???

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Greek economic crisis hits church
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2012, 01:04:54 PM »
The economic troubles of Greece have begun to take their toll on the church. Priests have faced pay cuts and soup kitchens which help the poor have also seen funding drop.

From the article:
Quote
Under the terms of an international bailout that saved Greece from bankruptcy, the government is cutting pay which for a typical parish priest is about 1,000 euros a month. Athens will also fund only one new priest to replace every 10 who retire or die, causing shortages in remote parishes during a deep recession when the flock most needs help.

Of course this will give our Protestant missionary types the opening they need to move in. They have loads of cash for overseas missions.



The Protestant missions reach only those that are unchurched and that are starting their spiritual journey, so in that sense they are desperately needed for a certain segment of society.  Culturally though they are alien to the Greeks, and also lack the fullness of Grace existent in the Orthodox church so I don't know what the fear is?  ???

Don't be so certain in that. There are probably as many Ukrainian Baptists living here these days as are either Ukrainian Catholics and Orthodox combined! Just like Greeks though, they send their kids to Ukie school and Ukie dance classes at the other churches.

Offline Zenovia

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Re: Greek economic crisis hits church
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2012, 01:10:48 PM »
The truth is though that the people in Greece are suffering.  The Greek church has always worked on an individual basis and doesn't have  the organizational skills to tackle something of this magnitude... although it's learning fast.  Shamed no doubt into action by the works of the Catholics and Evangelicals in Athens.

The wealthy Greeks living abroad are the ones that should really be shamed, because I find the sums contributed so far quite paltry.  >:(

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Greek economic crisis hits church
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2012, 01:19:44 PM »
The economic troubles of Greece have begun to take their toll on the church. Priests have faced pay cuts and soup kitchens which help the poor have also seen funding drop.

From the article:
Quote
Under the terms of an international bailout that saved Greece from bankruptcy, the government is cutting pay which for a typical parish priest is about 1,000 euros a month. Athens will also fund only one new priest to replace every 10 who retire or die, causing shortages in remote parishes during a deep recession when the flock most needs help.

Of course this will give our Protestant missionary types the opening they need to move in. They have loads of cash for overseas missions.

There is something to be said for our American system in which each church has to figure out how to manage on its own rather than depend on government largesse. Of course Hellenic Food Fesitvals would be a tad redundant in Greece!  ;)

haha i didn't think about that, no ethnic food festivals! How did those guys ever pay their bills?? :'(
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 01:19:58 PM by Ortho_cat »

Offline Zenovia

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Re: Greek economic crisis hits church
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2012, 01:25:28 PM »
The economic troubles of Greece have begun to take their toll on the church. Priests have faced pay cuts and soup kitchens which help the poor have also seen funding drop.

From the article:
Quote
Under the terms of an international bailout that saved Greece from bankruptcy, the government is cutting pay which for a typical parish priest is about 1,000 euros a month. Athens will also fund only one new priest to replace every 10 who retire or die, causing shortages in remote parishes during a deep recession when the flock most needs help.

Of course this will give our Protestant missionary types the opening they need to move in. They have loads of cash for overseas missions.



The Protestant missions reach only those that are unchurched and that are starting their spiritual journey, so in that sense they are desperately needed for a certain segment of society.  Culturally though they are alien to the Greeks, and also lack the fullness of Grace existent in the Orthodox church so I don't know what the fear is?  ???

Don't be so certain in that. There are probably as many Ukrainian Baptists living here these days as are either Ukrainian Catholics and Orthodox combined! Just like Greeks though, they send their kids to Ukie school and Ukie dance classes at the other churches.

Yes but you don't live in Ukraine.  These people are adapting to the American Protestant environment in the way they worship.  As for me personally, I thank the  Evangelicals and Catholics for their contributions to my own spiritual growth, something that the Orthodox Church was not able to give me at the time.  Hopefully these Baptists will someday grow to the fullness of Grace that exists in the Orthodox church.  If not, they at least they have not fallen totally away from God and we should be thankful for that.   :)

« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 01:26:25 PM by Zenovia »

Offline biro

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Re: Greek economic crisis hits church
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2012, 02:16:50 PM »
In my parish, we took up a collection for relief in Greece.

Does anyone know if Oxfam or the Red Cross are doing any initiatives over there?
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Greek economic crisis hits church
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2012, 02:32:51 PM »
The economic troubles of Greece have begun to take their toll on the church. Priests have faced pay cuts and soup kitchens which help the poor have also seen funding drop.

From the article:
Quote
Under the terms of an international bailout that saved Greece from bankruptcy, the government is cutting pay which for a typical parish priest is about 1,000 euros a month. Athens will also fund only one new priest to replace every 10 who retire or die, causing shortages in remote parishes during a deep recession when the flock most needs help.

Of course this will give our Protestant missionary types the opening they need to move in. They have loads of cash for overseas missions.



The Protestant missions reach only those that are unchurched and that are starting their spiritual journey, so in that sense they are desperately needed for a certain segment of society. 
I don't think you understand how the Protestants who would send missionaries to an Orthodox country see the Church. Their goal is very often to convert people out of Orthodoxy. I have heard it from their very mouths.
Quote
Culturally though they are alien to the Greeks, and also lack the fullness of Grace existent in the Orthodox church so I don't know what the fear is?  ???
Culturally Orthodoxy is alien to someone raised in the rural American South, but I converted. Who is to say alien religions don't have a certain appeal?

And grace or no grace, wolves have been known to snatch sheep.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline Zenovia

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Re: Greek economic crisis hits church
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2012, 12:02:02 AM »
The economic troubles of Greece have begun to take their toll on the church. Priests have faced pay cuts and soup kitchens which help the poor have also seen funding drop.

From the article:
Quote
Under the terms of an international bailout that saved Greece from bankruptcy, the government is cutting pay which for a typical parish priest is about 1,000 euros a month. Athens will also fund only one new priest to replace every 10 who retire or die, causing shortages in remote parishes during a deep recession when the flock most needs help.

Of course this will give our Protestant missionary types the opening they need to move in. They have loads of cash for overseas missions.



The Protestant missions reach only those that are unchurched and that are starting their spiritual journey, so in that sense they are desperately needed for a certain segment of society. 
I don't think you understand how the Protestants who would send missionaries to an Orthodox country see the Church. Their goal is very often to convert people out of Orthodoxy. I have heard it from their very mouths.

Protestants consider the Orthodox and Catholics idol worshipers.  I'm fully aware of that, but elitism and ignorance abounds everywhere.  They have pulled many a people out of the gutter and into the arms of a Church.  A limited Church possibly but isn't it better than no Church?  If some Orthodox are pulled away, then  these people are on a low spiritual level and need to grow a bit.  If they do come back, they'll probably be in a higher State of Grace than some Orthodox that  are simply searching for something...at most.


Quote
Culturally though they are alien to the Greeks, and also lack the fullness of Grace existent in the Orthodox church so I don't know what the fear is?  ???
Quote
Culturally Orthodoxy is alien to someone raised in the rural American South, but I converted. Who is to say alien religions don't have a certain appeal?

And grace or no grace, wolves have been known to snatch sheep.

This snatching sheep I find very offensive since the only purpose of a Church is to help people achieve unity with God.  It's not an us against them thing.   Do you have any idea how many atheists there are in Greece?  How can you say they are being snatched away?  Away from what?  Besides this Protestant missionary work has done wonders for the Greek Church.  Nothing like a bit of competition I say.  ;)
 

Offline Agabus

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Re: Greek economic crisis hits church
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2012, 10:47:39 AM »
The economic troubles of Greece have begun to take their toll on the church. Priests have faced pay cuts and soup kitchens which help the poor have also seen funding drop.

From the article:
Quote
Under the terms of an international bailout that saved Greece from bankruptcy, the government is cutting pay which for a typical parish priest is about 1,000 euros a month. Athens will also fund only one new priest to replace every 10 who retire or die, causing shortages in remote parishes during a deep recession when the flock most needs help.

Of course this will give our Protestant missionary types the opening they need to move in. They have loads of cash for overseas missions.



The Protestant missions reach only those that are unchurched and that are starting their spiritual journey, so in that sense they are desperately needed for a certain segment of society.
I don't think you understand how the Protestants who would send missionaries to an Orthodox country see the Church. Their goal is very often to convert people out of Orthodoxy. I have heard it from their very mouths.

Protestants consider the Orthodox and Catholics idol worshipers.  I'm fully aware of that, but elitism and ignorance abounds everywhere.  They have pulled many a people out of the gutter and into the arms of a Church.  A limited Church possibly but isn't it better than no Church?  If some Orthodox are pulled away, then  these people are on a low spiritual level and need to grow a bit.  If they do come back, they'll probably be in a higher State of Grace than some Orthodox that  are simply searching for something...at most.


Quote
Culturally though they are alien to the Greeks, and also lack the fullness of Grace existent in the Orthodox church so I don't know what the fear is?  ???
Quote
Culturally Orthodoxy is alien to someone raised in the rural American South, but I converted. Who is to say alien religions don't have a certain appeal?

And grace or no grace, wolves have been known to snatch sheep.

This snatching sheep I find very offensive since the only purpose of a Church is to help people achieve unity with God.  It's not an us against them thing.   Do you have any idea how many atheists there are in Greece?  How can you say they are being snatched away?  Away from what?  Besides this Protestant missionary work has done wonders for the Greek Church.  Nothing like a bit of competition I say.  ;)
I am not going to deny that Protestant missionaries can do some good, but I do not know why you take such umbrage at the idea that they want to steal people away from Orthodoxy. They do.  For a long time, the infamous manual for converting EO people, “Witnessing to people of Eastern Orthodox Background,” was hosted on the website for the North American Mission Board, which is a wing of the Southern Baptist Convention, one of the largest (possibly the largest) and best funded Protestant missionary organizations. It has since been taken down, but I doubt that was because the NAMB/SBC had a change of heart.

I will say it again: I have heard it from the missionaries’ mouths, they want to convert Orthodox people. They aren't targeting only athiests. If someone is taking Orthodox faithful (or Orthodox nominals) away from the faith, they aren’t doing so in the hope that the convert will one day thank them for everything they did and then return to Orthodoxy.

So, as inclined as I might be toward a soft ecumenism, I can’t look at doors opening to Protestants in Orthodox countries with any kind of enthusiasm.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 10:48:21 AM by Agabus »
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Greek economic crisis hits church
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2012, 10:54:52 AM »
Quote
I will say it again: I have heard it from the missionaries’ mouths, they want to convert Orthodox people
I was one of these missionaries. We proseletyzed Russians and Romanians away from Orthodoxy. The Protestant missionaries will certianly use this as an inroad to do this. American Evangelicals dont view EO or RC's as Christians at all. This is a serious turn of events. Anyone who casts this off as not a big deal are deluding themselves.

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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Greek economic crisis hits church
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2012, 02:37:05 PM »
The economic troubles of Greece have begun to take their toll on the church. Priests have faced pay cuts and soup kitchens which help the poor have also seen funding drop.

From the article:
Quote
Under the terms of an international bailout that saved Greece from bankruptcy, the government is cutting pay which for a typical parish priest is about 1,000 euros a month. Athens will also fund only one new priest to replace every 10 who retire or die, causing shortages in remote parishes during a deep recession when the flock most needs help.

Of course this will give our Protestant missionary types the opening they need to move in. They have loads of cash for overseas missions.



The Protestant missions reach only those that are unchurched and that are starting their spiritual journey, so in that sense they are desperately needed for a certain segment of society.
I don't think you understand how the Protestants who would send missionaries to an Orthodox country see the Church. Their goal is very often to convert people out of Orthodoxy. I have heard it from their very mouths.

Protestants consider the Orthodox and Catholics idol worshipers.  I'm fully aware of that, but elitism and ignorance abounds everywhere.  They have pulled many a people out of the gutter and into the arms of a Church.  A limited Church possibly but isn't it better than no Church?  If some Orthodox are pulled away, then  these people are on a low spiritual level and need to grow a bit.  If they do come back, they'll probably be in a higher State of Grace than some Orthodox that  are simply searching for something...at most.


Quote
Culturally though they are alien to the Greeks, and also lack the fullness of Grace existent in the Orthodox church so I don't know what the fear is?  ???
Quote
Culturally Orthodoxy is alien to someone raised in the rural American South, but I converted. Who is to say alien religions don't have a certain appeal?

And grace or no grace, wolves have been known to snatch sheep.

This snatching sheep I find very offensive since the only purpose of a Church is to help people achieve unity with God.  It's not an us against them thing.   Do you have any idea how many atheists there are in Greece?  How can you say they are being snatched away?  Away from what?  Besides this Protestant missionary work has done wonders for the Greek Church.  Nothing like a bit of competition I say.  ;)
I am not going to deny that Protestant missionaries can do some good, but I do not know why you take such umbrage at the idea that they want to steal people away from Orthodoxy. They do.  For a long time, the infamous manual for converting EO people, “Witnessing to people of Eastern Orthodox Background,” was hosted on the website for the North American Mission Board, which is a wing of the Southern Baptist Convention, one of the largest (possibly the largest) and best funded Protestant missionary organizations. It has since been taken down, but I doubt that was because the NAMB/SBC had a change of heart.

I will say it again: I have heard it from the missionaries’ mouths, they want to convert Orthodox people. They aren't targeting only athiests. If someone is taking Orthodox faithful (or Orthodox nominals) away from the faith, they aren’t doing so in the hope that the convert will one day thank them for everything they did and then return to Orthodoxy.

So, as inclined as I might be toward a soft ecumenism, I can’t look at doors opening to Protestants in Orthodox countries with any kind of enthusiasm.

yes, that first link is quite explicit:

Guidelines for Witnessing to Your Orthodox Friends


Quote
1. Remember that salvation does not depend on works or on your association with a church. It depends on a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. This relationship comes through faith (see Eph. 2:8-9).
 2. Pray and trust the Holy Spirit to reach the hearts and minds of those who are lost with the gospel message.
 3. Share your testimony. Many Orthodox have never experienced a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Your testimony of what Jesus has accomplished in your life could have a great impact on them. Keep your testimony short. Avoid using terms that are unfamiliar to Orthodox, such as: "walked the aisle," "got saved," and "born again."
 4. Explain that you are certain of your salvation because of God's grace. Make sure that you communicate that your assurance is derived from God's grace and not from good works or your ability to remain faithful (see 1 John 5:13).
 5. Give them a copy of the New Testament. Lead them to texts that explain salvation.
 6. Avoid issues that are not central to salvation.
 7. Keep the gospel presentation Christ-centered.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 02:37:56 PM by Ortho_cat »

Offline Ansgar

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Re: Greek economic crisis hits church
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2012, 03:45:31 PM »
I can't say for sure if it's true but I seem to remember something about an incident where a protestant church donated a lot of bibles to the romanian orthodox church. It turned out, that they had changed the word "idol" in the Bible with the word "icon".
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