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Peter J
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« Reply #540 on: April 30, 2012, 02:02:07 PM »

Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views.

Again, I'm not going to be the one to tell the Pope that he can't Have his cake and eat it too; but for the record, he does disagree with their idea that there have only been 7 ecumenical councils, and has argued specifically against that idea.

Do you remember where? That is interesting.

I didn't, but I found it just now:

Quote
A kind of ecumenical dogma seems to be developing here that needs some attention. Quite likely it began with this train of thought: for intercommunion with the Orthodox, the Catholic Church does not necessarily have to insist on acceptance of the dogmas of the second millennium. It was presumed that the Eastern Churches have remained in the traditional form of the first millennium, which in itself is legitimate and, if rightly understood, contains no contradiction to further developments. After all, the latter only unfolded what was already there in principle at the time of the undivided Church. I myself have already taken part in attempts to think things out like this, but meanwhile they have grown out of hand to the point where councils and dogmatic definitions of the second millennium are supposed to be regarded, not as ecumenical, but as particular developments in the Latin Church, constituting her private property in the sense of “our two traditions”.

I won't quote the rest of it, in keeping with forum policy, but you can find it quoted here:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/02/podcazt-166-toward-a-true-ecumenism/#comment-254497
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« Reply #541 on: April 30, 2012, 02:10:21 PM »

In the case of the RC church, it seems that prerogatives of the Papacy would leave such a charge to be made by the Pope himself, and only the Pope?

Yes. Which is why I don't share this thinking:

I know the Orthodox Church isn't the greenest, but, as you say, at least we don't have to worry about being morally obligated to vote for future President Dolan.

I hope you did not mistake my note to you as a CAF put down...oh my no!  I am more than happy to see you convert to Orthodoxy.  Your reasoning makes you a natural for moving.

Christ is Risen!

M.

Which reminds me: Mint, are you still here? I'm just curious.
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« Reply #542 on: April 30, 2012, 02:18:05 PM »

Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views.

Again, I'm not going to be the one to tell the Pope that he can't Have his cake and eat it too; but for the record, he does disagree with their idea that there have only been 7 ecumenical councils, and has argued specifically against that idea.

Do you remember where? That is interesting.

I didn't, but I found it just now:

Quote
A kind of ecumenical dogma seems to be developing here that needs some attention. Quite likely it began with this train of thought: for intercommunion with the Orthodox, the Catholic Church does not necessarily have to insist on acceptance of the dogmas of the second millennium. It was presumed that the Eastern Churches have remained in the traditional form of the first millennium, which in itself is legitimate and, if rightly understood, contains no contradiction to further developments. After all, the latter only unfolded what was already there in principle at the time of the undivided Church. I myself have already taken part in attempts to think things out like this, but meanwhile they have grown out of hand to the point where councils and dogmatic definitions of the second millennium are supposed to be regarded, not as ecumenical, but as particular developments in the Latin Church, constituting her private property in the sense of “our two traditions”.

I won't quote the rest of it, in keeping with forum policy, but you can find it quoted here:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/02/podcazt-166-toward-a-true-ecumenism/#comment-254497

Thanks! You're a gem!
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« Reply #543 on: April 30, 2012, 02:26:36 PM »

After all, you claimed that this was solved:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13539a.htm
Quote
The Western Schism was only a temporary misunderstanding, even though it compelled the Church for forty years to seek its true head
You know, as much as you try to rub our faces in the Western schism, one fact remains: we survived it.
So you keep claiming.



Looks like the Holy Spirit is stronger than your polemics.
Of course He is.  I depend on Him for my polemics.
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« Reply #544 on: April 30, 2012, 02:37:35 PM »

After all, you claimed that this was solved:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13539a.htm
Quote
The Western Schism was only a temporary misunderstanding, even though it compelled the Church for forty years to seek its true head
You know, as much as you try to rub our faces in the Western schism, one fact remains: we survived it.
So you keep claiming.



Looks like the Holy Spirit is stronger than your polemics.
.

MapMan, dodododododododododododododododo, MapMan..




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« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 02:44:35 PM by J Michael » Logged

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« Reply #545 on: April 30, 2012, 02:40:09 PM »

« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 02:42:24 PM by podkarpatska » Logged
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« Reply #546 on: April 30, 2012, 02:40:50 PM »

After all, you claimed that this was solved:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13539a.htm
Quote
The Western Schism was only a temporary misunderstanding, even though it compelled the Church for forty years to seek its true head
You know, as much as you try to rub our faces in the Western schism, one fact remains: we survived it.
So you keep claiming.



Looks like the Holy Spirit is stronger than your polemics.
.

MapMan, dodododododododododododododododo, MapMan..



See, with a two-year-old, my mind immediately went to Dora:



"I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the map, I'M THE MAP!"
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« Reply #547 on: April 30, 2012, 02:43:13 PM »

After all, you claimed that this was solved:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13539a.htm
Quote
The Western Schism was only a temporary misunderstanding, even though it compelled the Church for forty years to seek its true head
You know, as much as you try to rub our faces in the Western schism, one fact remains: we survived it.
So you keep claiming.



Looks like the Holy Spirit is stronger than your polemics.
.

MapMan, dodododododododododododododododo, MapMan..



See, with a two-year-old, my mind immediately went to Dora:



"I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the map, I'm the map, I'M THE MAP!"

LOL!!  laugh laugh laugh
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« Reply #548 on: April 30, 2012, 02:44:05 PM »

In other words, everyone has to take one side or the other, eh?
"I wish you were either hot or cold" - Jesus

Which one corresponds to being Catholic (or, for Isa, "in communion with the Vatican"), and which one corresponds to being Orthodox?

P.S. Is "duopoly" a real word?
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« Reply #549 on: April 30, 2012, 02:45:44 PM »

In other words, everyone has to take one side or the other, eh?
"I wish you were either hot or cold" - Jesus

Which one corresponds to being Catholic (or, for Isa, "in communion with the Vatican"), and which one corresponds to being Orthodox?

P.S. Is "duopoly" a real word?

Yes.
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« Reply #550 on: April 30, 2012, 02:49:56 PM »

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« Reply #551 on: April 30, 2012, 02:50:59 PM »

With the maps - tl;dr. Any more of this eye-mangling business and I'll need new glasses.
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« Reply #552 on: April 30, 2012, 03:50:19 PM »

P.S. Is "duopoly" a real word?

Yes.

That's good, b/c if not I think I would have to invent it.  Cool

In other words, everyone has to take one side or the other, eh?
"I wish you were either hot or cold" - Jesus

Which one corresponds to being Catholic (or, for Isa, "in communion with the Vatican"), and which one corresponds to being Orthodox?

I have a problem with supporting a duopoly.
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« Reply #553 on: April 30, 2012, 04:51:42 PM »

P.S. Is "duopoly" a real word?

Yes.

That's good, b/c if not I think I would have to invent it.  Cool

In other words, everyone has to take one side or the other, eh?
"I wish you were either hot or cold" - Jesus

Which one corresponds to being Catholic (or, for Isa, "in communion with the Vatican"), and which one corresponds to being Orthodox?

I have a problem with supporting a duopoly.


Good thing its not a board game - I could see the slogan : "Duopoly - It's twice as long and twice as frustrating as Monopoly!"
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« Reply #554 on: April 30, 2012, 05:46:29 PM »

P.S. Is "duopoly" a real word?

Yes.

That's good, b/c if not I think I would have to invent it.  Cool

In other words, everyone has to take one side or the other, eh?
"I wish you were either hot or cold" - Jesus

Which one corresponds to being Catholic (or, for Isa, "in communion with the Vatican"), and which one corresponds to being Orthodox?

I have a problem with supporting a duopoly.


Good thing its not a board game - I could see the slogan : "Duopoly - It's twice as long and twice as frustrating as Monopoly!"
Did someone say board game?
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« Reply #555 on: April 30, 2012, 07:25:40 PM »


Did someone say board game?


Where is The Ukraine?
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« Reply #556 on: April 30, 2012, 07:48:51 PM »


Did someone say board game?


Where is The Ukraine?
You mean Ukraine.  Good question.
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« Reply #557 on: April 30, 2012, 07:55:46 PM »


Did someone say board game?


Where is The Ukraine?
You mean Ukraine.  Good question.

Nope.



BTW, when I was googling for a picture of the Seinfeld episode, there were lots of pics of Ukrainian girls. WOAH.
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« Reply #558 on: April 30, 2012, 07:58:31 PM »

Ukranian girls like Seinfeld? Sign me up.
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« Reply #559 on: April 30, 2012, 08:01:11 PM »


Did someone say board game?


Where is The Ukraine?
You mean Ukraine.  Good question.

Nope.



BTW, when I was googling for a picture of the Seinfeld episode, there were lots of pics of Ukrainian girls. WOAH.
Don't go in any dark subways
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzLtF_PxbYw

I googled that once and came up with lots of pics of Ukrainian girls and not a stitch of clothing. Shocked
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« Reply #560 on: April 30, 2012, 09:18:45 PM »

I don't want to be Switzerland.
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« Reply #561 on: April 30, 2012, 09:56:59 PM »

I only play if I get to be Asia. Guaranteed win. We're talking about Risk, right?
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« Reply #562 on: April 30, 2012, 10:52:41 PM »

The message body was left empty.
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« Reply #563 on: April 30, 2012, 10:59:04 PM »

The message body was left empty.
I remember the old Rand McNally atlas, where it had pages explaining a map.  It started out with a chart of the universe, to the milky way, to the solar system, to earth, to a map of North America, to a map of the United States, to a map of the Midwest, to a Chicago map, to a map of North Chicago, to map of a Chicago neighborhood.  My neighborhood. Grin
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« Reply #564 on: April 30, 2012, 10:59:36 PM »

The message body was left empty.
I remember the old Rand McNally atlas, where it had pages explaining a map.  It started out with a chart of the universe, to the milky way, to the solar system, to earth, to a map of North America, to a map of the United States, to a map of the Midwest, to a Chicago map, to a map of North Chicago, to map of a Chicago neighborhood.  My neighborhood. Grin
ROFL
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« Reply #565 on: May 01, 2012, 09:59:29 AM »

Well, you don't have to agree with me. However, their faith is neither fully Catholic, nor fully Eastern Orthodox. The conclusion that I can come to is that those who agree with them have their own religion that is neither fully Catholic nor fully Eastern Orthodox.

Incidentally, I just came across a signature you (and many of the Orthodox here) might like. It reads:

"HMMM.... Catholic or Catholic not. There is no via media." ---- Yoda Grin
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« Reply #566 on: May 01, 2012, 10:14:18 AM »

Well, you don't have to agree with me. However, their faith is neither fully Catholic, nor fully Eastern Orthodox. The conclusion that I can come to is that those who agree with them have their own religion that is neither fully Catholic nor fully Eastern Orthodox.

Incidentally, I just came across a signature you (and many of the Orthodox here) might like. It reads:

"HMMM.... Catholic or Catholic not. There is no via media." ---- Yoda Grin
I LIKE IT! Smiley
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« Reply #567 on: May 01, 2012, 01:19:05 PM »

Well, you don't have to agree with me. However, their faith is neither fully Catholic, nor fully Eastern Orthodox. The conclusion that I can come to is that those who agree with them have their own religion that is neither fully Catholic nor fully Eastern Orthodox.

Incidentally, I just came across a signature you (and many of the Orthodox here) might like. It reads:

"HMMM.... Catholic or Catholic not. There is no via media." ---- Yoda Grin
I LIKE IT! Smiley

There are those who say I'm gifted.  Embarrassed  Smiley
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« Reply #568 on: May 01, 2012, 01:23:55 PM »

Well, you don't have to agree with me. However, their faith is neither fully Catholic, nor fully Eastern Orthodox. The conclusion that I can come to is that those who agree with them have their own religion that is neither fully Catholic nor fully Eastern Orthodox.

Incidentally, I just came across a signature you (and many of the Orthodox here) might like. It reads:

"HMMM.... Catholic or Catholic not. There is no via media." ---- Yoda Grin
I LIKE IT! Smiley

There are those who say I'm gifted.  Embarrassed  Smiley

 Roll Eyes

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« Reply #569 on: May 01, 2012, 01:24:16 PM »

It makes for a good bumper sticker or signature, for sure, but I wonder how true it is now that Rome has set up Anglican-use ordinaries and such. I guess from the RC view such people and parishes would simply be viewed as finally "coming home", thereby abolishing the idea of the via media? (as it is no longer necessary)
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« Reply #570 on: May 06, 2012, 09:53:09 PM »

(2) Catholic encouraging other Catholics to leave Catholicism, then

This weekend I was talking to some other people about this same topic. One comment that I made to them is, perhaps, worth making here too: if a Catholic is leaving Catholicism (for Orthodoxy let's say) then I think it's only natural that he/she will want other Catholics to "come along" as well. That's quite different from what we've been discussing here, namely the situation where a Catholic has no intention of leaving but wants to push another Catholic out the door. (I've been taking this for granted throughout this conversation, but it's good to say it, in case anyone else isn't taking it for granted.)
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« Reply #571 on: May 07, 2012, 01:07:36 PM »

(2) Catholic encouraging other Catholics to leave Catholicism, then

This weekend I was talking to some other people about this same topic. One comment that I made to them is, perhaps, worth making here too: if a Catholic is leaving Catholicism (for Orthodoxy let's say) then I think it's only natural that he/she will want other Catholics to "come along" as well. That's quite different from what we've been discussing here, namely the situation where a Catholic has no intention of leaving but wants to push another Catholic out the door. (I've been taking this for granted throughout this conversation, but it's good to say it, in case anyone else isn't taking it for granted.)
I'm not really pushing heterodox Catholics out the door. I would rather them convert to the true Catholic faith and remain Catholic. However, if they refuse to profess the Catholic faith, I think that the most honest thing for them to do is to admit to themselves and others that they are no longer Catholic.
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« Reply #572 on: May 07, 2012, 02:12:49 PM »

(2) Catholic encouraging other Catholics to leave Catholicism, then

This weekend I was talking to some other people about this same topic. One comment that I made to them is, perhaps, worth making here too: if a Catholic is leaving Catholicism (for Orthodoxy let's say) then I think it's only natural that he/she will want other Catholics to "come along" as well. That's quite different from what we've been discussing here, namely the situation where a Catholic has no intention of leaving but wants to push another Catholic out the door. (I've been taking this for granted throughout this conversation, but it's good to say it, in case anyone else isn't taking it for granted.)
I'm not really pushing heterodox Catholics out the door. I would rather them convert to the true Catholic faith and remain Catholic. However, if they refuse to profess the Catholic faith, I think that the most honest thing for them to do is to admit to themselves and others that they are no longer Catholic.

Actually, the Catholics-encouraging-other-Catholics-to-leave-Catholicism topics came up before you even joined the thread. For example, reply #6:


I know the Orthodox Church isn't the greenest, but, as you say, at least we don't have to worry about being morally obligated to vote for future President Dolan.

I hope you did not mistake my note to you as a CAF put down...oh my no!  I am more than happy to see you convert to Orthodoxy.  Your reasoning makes you a natural for moving.

Christ is Risen!

M.
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« Reply #573 on: May 07, 2012, 03:45:58 PM »

(2) Catholic encouraging other Catholics to leave Catholicism, then

This weekend I was talking to some other people about this same topic. One comment that I made to them is, perhaps, worth making here too: if a Catholic is leaving Catholicism (for Orthodoxy let's say) then I think it's only natural that he/she will want other Catholics to "come along" as well. That's quite different from what we've been discussing here, namely the situation where a Catholic has no intention of leaving but wants to push another Catholic out the door. (I've been taking this for granted throughout this conversation, but it's good to say it, in case anyone else isn't taking it for granted.)
I'm not really pushing heterodox Catholics out the door. I would rather them convert to the true Catholic faith and remain Catholic. However, if they refuse to profess the Catholic faith, I think that the most honest thing for them to do is to admit to themselves and others that they are no longer Catholic.

Actually, the Catholics-encouraging-other-Catholics-to-leave-Catholicism topics came up before you even joined the thread. For example, reply #6:


I know the Orthodox Church isn't the greenest, but, as you say, at least we don't have to worry about being morally obligated to vote for future President Dolan.

I hope you did not mistake my note to you as a CAF put down...oh my no!  I am more than happy to see you convert to Orthodoxy.  Your reasoning makes you a natural for moving.

Christ is Risen!

M.
Again, it's not about pushing Catholics out. It's about those who no longer profess the Catholic faith just admitting to themselves the truth: that they are no longer Catholic.
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« Reply #574 on: May 07, 2012, 05:38:49 PM »

Actually, the Catholics-encouraging-other-Catholics-to-leave-Catholicism topics came up before you even joined the thread. For example, reply #6:

P.S. Not to mention lots of such posts on other threads, e.g.

Quote from: elijahmaria
Quote from: Rdunbar123
This is the heart of the problem and the reason I am inquiring into Orthodoxy. Indeed, who can tell the Pope he is heretic if he does something like declaring open communion with Lutherns(not a slam, just picked at random). Surely there is a mechanism? Maybe a better informed RC could chime in. Please don't tell me there have been no crazy popes,there have been Neo-pagan popes.
Under the circumstances I think you would be much happier in Orthodoxy.  I don't see why you would even want to look back.

Mary

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,35932.msg568447.html#msg568447
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« Reply #575 on: May 07, 2012, 05:43:31 PM »

(2) Catholic encouraging other Catholics to leave Catholicism, then

This weekend I was talking to some other people about this same topic. One comment that I made to them is, perhaps, worth making here too: if a Catholic is leaving Catholicism (for Orthodoxy let's say) then I think it's only natural that he/she will want other Catholics to "come along" as well. That's quite different from what we've been discussing here, namely the situation where a Catholic has no intention of leaving but wants to push another Catholic out the door. (I've been taking this for granted throughout this conversation, but it's good to say it, in case anyone else isn't taking it for granted.)
I'm not really pushing heterodox Catholics out the door. I would rather them convert to the true Catholic faith and remain Catholic. However, if they refuse to profess the Catholic faith, I think that the most honest thing for them to do is to admit to themselves and others that they are no longer Catholic.

Actually, the Catholics-encouraging-other-Catholics-to-leave-Catholicism topics came up before you even joined the thread. For example, reply #6:


I know the Orthodox Church isn't the greenest, but, as you say, at least we don't have to worry about being morally obligated to vote for future President Dolan.

I hope you did not mistake my note to you as a CAF put down...oh my no!  I am more than happy to see you convert to Orthodoxy.  Your reasoning makes you a natural for moving.

Christ is Risen!

M.
Again, it's not about pushing Catholics out. It's about those who no longer profess the Catholic faith just admitting to themselves the truth: that they are no longer Catholic.

You may be right. I can only go by what is said.
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« Reply #576 on: May 08, 2012, 03:03:26 PM »



You may be right. I can only go by what is said.

If that is ALL that you do you might get more response from some of us.  But you have a nasty habit of "reading in to" a comment and then phrasing your questions to suit your own interpretations, thereby making them unanswerable with respect to the original comment and its author.

In this you and al Misry have a great deal in common....

Make of that what you will.

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« Reply #577 on: May 08, 2012, 03:07:29 PM »



You may be right. I can only go by what is said.

If that is ALL that you do you might get more response from some of us.  But you have a nasty habit of "reading in to" a comment and then phrasing your questions to suit your own interpretations, thereby making them unanswerable with respect to the original comment and its author.

In this you and al Misry have a great deal in common....

Make of that what you will.


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« Reply #578 on: May 08, 2012, 03:10:17 PM »



You may be right. I can only go by what is said.

If that is ALL that you do you might get more response from some of us.  But you have a nasty habit of "reading in to" a comment and then phrasing your questions to suit your own interpretations, thereby making them unanswerable with respect to the original comment and its author.

In this you and al Misry have a great deal in common....

Make of that what you will.



Precisely
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« Reply #579 on: May 08, 2012, 03:15:16 PM »

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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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« Reply #580 on: May 08, 2012, 07:55:03 PM »

You may be right. I can only go by what is said.

If that is ALL that you do you might get more response from some of us.  But you have a nasty habit of "reading in to" a comment and then phrasing your questions to suit your own interpretations, thereby making them unanswerable with respect to the original comment and its author.

I'm no hero. I just try to do what I can.
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« Reply #581 on: May 08, 2012, 08:00:26 PM »

Again, it's not about pushing Catholics out. It's about those who no longer profess the Catholic faith just admitting to themselves the truth: that they are no longer Catholic.

The thing is, I don't see anything in Rdunbar's post to suggest that he had already ceased to be Catholic.

Quote from: elijahmaria
Quote from: Rdunbar123
This is the heart of the problem and the reason I am inquiring into Orthodoxy. Indeed, who can tell the Pope he is heretic if he does something like declaring open communion with Lutherns(not a slam, just picked at random). Surely there is a mechanism? Maybe a better informed RC could chime in. Please don't tell me there have been no crazy popes,there have been Neo-pagan popes.
Under the circumstances I think you would be much happier in Orthodoxy.  I don't see why you would even want to look back.

Mary

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,35932.msg568447.html#msg568447
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 08:01:15 PM by Peter J » Logged

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« Reply #582 on: May 08, 2012, 08:06:14 PM »

You may be right. I can only go by what is said.

If that is ALL that you do you might get more response from some of us.  But you have a nasty habit of "reading in to" a comment and then phrasing your questions to suit your own interpretations, thereby making them unanswerable with respect to the original comment and its author.

I'm no hero. I just try to do what I can.

That made me smile...Can't argue with the 'umble of 'eart!!
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« Reply #583 on: May 08, 2012, 08:29:28 PM »

You may be right. I can only go by what is said.

If that is ALL that you do you might get more response from some of us.  But you have a nasty habit of "reading in to" a comment and then phrasing your questions to suit your own interpretations, thereby making them unanswerable with respect to the original comment and its author.

I'm no hero. I just try to do what I can.

That made me smile...Can't argue with the 'umble of 'eart!!

You are really are full of yourself, aren't you?
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« Reply #584 on: May 08, 2012, 08:37:54 PM »

You may be right. I can only go by what is said.

If that is ALL that you do you might get more response from some of us.  But you have a nasty habit of "reading in to" a comment and then phrasing your questions to suit your own interpretations, thereby making them unanswerable with respect to the original comment and its author.

I'm no hero. I just try to do what I can.

That made me smile...Can't argue with the 'umble of 'eart!!

You are really are full of yourself, aren't you?

I was being genuine and genuinely conciliatory.  I thought your remarks were humble.

But that is the LAST time I make that mistake. 

Back to my comments on the fact that there's really no point in talking to you because you add value to things that are not there...just like al Misry does.

'ta

M.
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