OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 18, 2014, 06:44:30 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Why  (Read 12331 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,174



« Reply #495 on: April 29, 2012, 08:28:04 PM »

Thanks. It's been eleven pages, I thought someone ought to try to deal with the question.  Wink Cheesy

Hmmm ... this thread has had an interesting journey through different topics. As I recall, we started with
(1) the original "Why", then moved to
(2) Catholic encouraging other Catholics to leave Catholicism, then
(3) the Zoghby Initiative and related Melkite issues
then went back and forth between (2) and (3) for a bit, then
(4*) removing a bad pope.

(I put 4* b/c I'm not certain of that number -- there might have been something between 3 and 4* that I'm forgetting.)
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
ZealousZeal
Gainsaying Helpmeet
Archon
********
Online Online

Faith: ✔
Posts: 2,763


look into my lovable alpaca eyes


« Reply #496 on: April 29, 2012, 08:36:45 PM »

Thanks. It's been eleven pages, I thought someone ought to try to deal with the question.  Wink Cheesy

Hmmm ... this thread has had an interesting journey through different topics. As I recall, we started with
(1) the original "Why", then moved to
(2) Catholic encouraging other Catholics to leave Catholicism, then
(3) the Zoghby Initiative and related Melkite issues
then went back and forth between (2) and (3) for a bit, then
(4*) removing a bad pope.

(I put 4* b/c I'm not certain of that number -- there might have been something between 3 and 4* that I'm forgetting.)

I sort of feel like the Ecumenical Council discussion deserves to be its own number. 
Logged

"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14
elijahmaria
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 6,473



WWW
« Reply #497 on: April 29, 2012, 08:43:00 PM »

ifyouknowwhatImeanandIthinkyoudo

I don't think that's a real word.

I was free-styling.

 Cheesy Cheesy

I love your Avatar.  It is perfect for this part of the Forum.

The way to move a pope out of office is to show him the wisdom and charity of resignation.

You know God is far more charitable than most of you here.

To listen to you, it is a Trophy religion you seek:  how many primatial heads can you hang on the wall?

 Roll Eyes

I'm sincerely not trying to be uncharitable. I hope I'm not coming off that way.

Nonono...I imbedded a message.  Should have put the latter part in a whole new note...you are fine!

M.
Logged

elijahmaria
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 6,473



WWW
« Reply #498 on: April 29, 2012, 08:45:29 PM »

I was serious when I said I loved your Avatar. 

It is exuberant innocence...so now I see you that way... Wink
Logged

Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,174



« Reply #499 on: April 29, 2012, 08:47:06 PM »

Thanks. It's been eleven pages, I thought someone ought to try to deal with the question.  Wink Cheesy

Hmmm ... this thread has had an interesting journey through different topics. As I recall, we started with
(1) the original "Why", then moved to
(2) Catholic encouraging other Catholics to leave Catholicism, then
(3) the Zoghby Initiative and related Melkite issues
then went back and forth between (2) and (3) for a bit, then
(4*) removing a bad pope.

(I put 4* b/c I'm not certain of that number -- there might have been something between 3 and 4* that I'm forgetting.)

I sort of feel like the Ecumenical Council discussion deserves to be its own number.  

Good point. How about:


(1) the original "Why"

(2a) Catholic encouraging other Catholics to leave Catholicism, then
(2b) whether or not the latter have been automatically excommunicated already

(3a) the Zoghby Initiative
(3b) Melkites in general

(4a) different counts of ecumenical councils
(4b) acceptance of the teaching of those councils (with or without calling them "dogmas" and "ecumenical" respectively)

After mixing these ingredients, proceed to Step 5.  removing a bad pope
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 08:49:29 PM by Peter J » Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
ZealousZeal
Gainsaying Helpmeet
Archon
********
Online Online

Faith: ✔
Posts: 2,763


look into my lovable alpaca eyes


« Reply #500 on: April 29, 2012, 08:51:34 PM »

I was serious when I said I loved your Avatar. 

It is exuberant innocence...so now I see you that way... Wink

Thank you!  Cheesy I love that little happy alpaca!
Logged

"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14
ZealousZeal
Gainsaying Helpmeet
Archon
********
Online Online

Faith: ✔
Posts: 2,763


look into my lovable alpaca eyes


« Reply #501 on: April 29, 2012, 08:57:18 PM »

Thanks. It's been eleven pages, I thought someone ought to try to deal with the question.  Wink Cheesy

Hmmm ... this thread has had an interesting journey through different topics. As I recall, we started with
(1) the original "Why", then moved to
(2) Catholic encouraging other Catholics to leave Catholicism, then
(3) the Zoghby Initiative and related Melkite issues
then went back and forth between (2) and (3) for a bit, then
(4*) removing a bad pope.

(I put 4* b/c I'm not certain of that number -- there might have been something between 3 and 4* that I'm forgetting.)

I sort of feel like the Ecumenical Council discussion deserves to be its own number.  

Good point. How about:


(1) the original "Why"

(2a) Catholic encouraging other Catholics to leave Catholicism, then
(2b) whether or not the latter have been automatically excommunicated already

(3a) the Zoghby Initiative
(3b) Melkites in general

(4a) different counts of ecumenical councils
(4b) acceptance of the teaching of those councils (with or without calling them "dogmas" and "ecumenical" respectively)

After mixing these ingredients, proceed to Step 5.  removing a bad pope


Logged

"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,404


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #502 on: April 30, 2012, 11:56:03 AM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 12:01:18 PM by Papist » Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
elijahmaria
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 6,473



WWW
« Reply #503 on: April 30, 2012, 12:06:00 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Logged

Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,174



« Reply #504 on: April 30, 2012, 12:13:10 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

So are you saying that anyone who agrees with the Pope on some issues and with Orthodoxy on other issues is making up their own religion?
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,404


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #505 on: April 30, 2012, 12:15:37 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,404


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #506 on: April 30, 2012, 12:16:20 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

So are you saying that anyone who agrees with the Pope on some issues and with Orthodoxy on other issues is making up their own religion?
Loaded question. What do you mean by "agreeing with the Pope" on Orthodoxy?
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,957


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #507 on: April 30, 2012, 12:25:46 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

So are you saying that anyone who agrees with the Pope on some issues and with Orthodoxy on other issues is making up their own religion?

No.

Playing the Devil's Advocate, so to speak, it seems that Todd and Neil both agree with Dr. Dragani, hence they woud be called Eastern Catholics. It would be up to their respective Bishop to determine in the first instance that they placed themselves outside of the body of the Church.

"Theological Differences: Is it true that the Eastern Catholic Churches are allowed to have different theological expressions? If so what does it involve?

This certainly is true. The Eastern Catholic Churches are not only "allowed" but are actively encouraged to cultivate their own distinctive theological expressions."  
http://www.east2west.org/doctrine.htm

By the way, it is kind of ironic, isn't it, regarding a statement above that certain EC's were 'anathema' in the eyes of an RC poster? We just finished an internal Orthodox dust-up here about who exactly declares one 'anathema' and we concluded that it was not the prerogative of an individual to make such a claim - but rather it belongs to the Church herself. In the case of the RC church, it seems that prerogatives of the Papacy would leave such a charge to be made by the Pope himself, and only the Pope?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 12:31:02 PM by podkarpatska » Logged
Cavaradossi
法網恢恢,疏而不漏
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Chalcedonian Automaton Serial No. 5Aj4bx9
Jurisdiction: Chalcedonian Automaton Factory 5
Posts: 1,636



« Reply #508 on: April 30, 2012, 12:27:12 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.

So the pope is either negligent for not addressing the Melkite problem, lacking integrity for sweeping the problem under the rug in order to prevent schism, or himself a dissident by ignoring the teachings of his own church. I'm not so sure I like your analysis.
Logged

Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,404


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #509 on: April 30, 2012, 12:29:45 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.

So the pope is either negligent for not addressing the Melkite problem, lacking integrity for sweeping the problem under the rug in order to prevent schism, or himself a dissident by ignoring the teachings of his own church. I'm not so sure I like your analysis.
I'm not sure I agree with your analysis. Taking a soft handed pastoral approach does seem problematic. Especially if he can only focus on so many things at a time.
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
elijahmaria
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 6,473



WWW
« Reply #510 on: April 30, 2012, 12:30:53 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.

So the pope is either negligent for not addressing the Melkite problem, lacking integrity for sweeping the problem under the rug in order to prevent schism, or himself a dissident by ignoring the teachings of his own church. I'm not so sure I like your analysis.

From all that I've read and seen over the years I am pretty certain his pope would not approve of it either thoug I suppose he would understand it.

No. Papist, I do not think that the pope is ignoring the Melkites.  I think there is an understanding there with regard to primatial power and authority that does not fit in your little black catholic box.

M.
Logged

Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,404


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #511 on: April 30, 2012, 12:31:44 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

So are you saying that anyone who agrees with the Pope on some issues and with Orthodoxy on other issues is making up their own religion?

No.

Playing the Devil's Advocate, so to speak, if you agree with Dr. Dragani, you would be called an Eastern Catholic.

"Theological Differences: Is it true that the Eastern Catholic Churches are allowed to have different theological expressions? If so what does it involve?

This certainly is true. The Eastern Catholic Churches are not only "allowed" but are actively encouraged to cultivate their own distinctive theological expressions."  
http://www.east2west.org/doctrine.htm

By the way, it is kind of ironic, isn't it, regarding a statement above that certain EC's were 'anathema' in the eyes of an RC poster? We just finished an internal Orthodox dust-up here about who exactly declares one 'anathema' and we concluded that it was not the prerogative of an individual to make such a claim - but rather it belongs to the Church herself. In the case of the RC church, it seems that prerogatives of the Papacy would leave such a charge to be made by the Pope himself, and only the Pope?
1. Yes, ECs may have their own theological expression, but it must be a different theological expression of the same truth, not a contradictory system of belief.
2. I did not declare anyone anathema. The Church herself declares anathema, anyone who rejects certain teachings.
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,957


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #512 on: April 30, 2012, 12:31:58 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.

So the pope is either negligent for not addressing the Melkite problem, lacking integrity for sweeping the problem under the rug in order to prevent schism, or himself a dissident by ignoring the teachings of his own church. I'm not so sure I like your analysis.

From all that I've read and seen over the years I am pretty certain his pope would not approve of it either thoug I suppose he would understand it.

No. Papist, I do not think that the pope is ignoring the Melkites.  I think there is an understanding there with regard to primatial power and authority that does not fit in your little black catholic box.

M.

Agreed, and which wouldn't fit into an Orthodox one either for that matter.
Logged
Cavaradossi
法網恢恢,疏而不漏
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Chalcedonian Automaton Serial No. 5Aj4bx9
Jurisdiction: Chalcedonian Automaton Factory 5
Posts: 1,636



« Reply #513 on: April 30, 2012, 12:36:06 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.

So the pope is either negligent for not addressing the Melkite problem, lacking integrity for sweeping the problem under the rug in order to prevent schism, or himself a dissident by ignoring the teachings of his own church. I'm not so sure I like your analysis.
I'm not sure I agree with your analysis. Taking a soft handed pastoral approach does seem problematic. Especially if he can only focus on so many things at a time.
So it's ok to ignore heresy out of a pastoral application of economy?
Logged

Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,404


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #514 on: April 30, 2012, 12:36:45 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.

So the pope is either negligent for not addressing the Melkite problem, lacking integrity for sweeping the problem under the rug in order to prevent schism, or himself a dissident by ignoring the teachings of his own church. I'm not so sure I like your analysis.

From all that I've read and seen over the years I am pretty certain his pope would not approve of it either thoug I suppose he would understand it.

No. Papist, I do not think that the pope is ignoring the Melkites.  I think there is an understanding there with regard to primatial power and authority that does not fit in your little black catholic box.

M.
It has nothing to do with "my little box" Maria. It has to do with the fact that some ECs reject the teachings of the Church on the Papacy. These teachings are spelled our very clearly in the Vatican I documents, the Vatican II documents, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
NOTE: I have not problem with Eastern Catholics. I participate fairly regularly at an Eastern Catholic Parish. Nor do I hate dissenting Catholics like Neil and Todd. I believe them to be my brothers, and I hope to be with them in Heaven one day. I also recognize that there are different kinds of Eastern Catholics. There are those that hold to the entire Catholic faith, and those who do not. Those who do not are no different than dissenting Latins who need to honestly ask themselves the question as to whether or not they are really Catholic anymore. I do not declare them anathema, but the first Vatican Council does. That council has more authority than I do. Whom am I to disagree with an Ecumenical council?
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,404


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #515 on: April 30, 2012, 12:37:22 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.

So the pope is either negligent for not addressing the Melkite problem, lacking integrity for sweeping the problem under the rug in order to prevent schism, or himself a dissident by ignoring the teachings of his own church. I'm not so sure I like your analysis.
I'm not sure I agree with your analysis. Taking a soft handed pastoral approach does seem problematic. Especially if he can only focus on so many things at a time.
So it's ok to ignore heresy out of a pastoral application of economy?
Has every heretic in the EO Church been dealt with? When that day comes, let me know.
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Cavaradossi
法網恢恢,疏而不漏
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Chalcedonian Automaton Serial No. 5Aj4bx9
Jurisdiction: Chalcedonian Automaton Factory 5
Posts: 1,636



« Reply #516 on: April 30, 2012, 12:39:14 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.

So the pope is either negligent for not addressing the Melkite problem, lacking integrity for sweeping the problem under the rug in order to prevent schism, or himself a dissident by ignoring the teachings of his own church. I'm not so sure I like your analysis.

From all that I've read and seen over the years I am pretty certain his pope would not approve of it either thoug I suppose he would understand it.

No. Papist, I do not think that the pope is ignoring the Melkites.  I think there is an understanding there with regard to primatial power and authority that does not fit in your little black catholic box.

M.

That makes some sense, I suppose.
Logged

Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Moderated
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 38,135



« Reply #517 on: April 30, 2012, 12:42:16 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.

So the pope is either negligent for not addressing the Melkite problem, lacking integrity for sweeping the problem under the rug in order to prevent schism, or himself a dissident by ignoring the teachings of his own church. I'm not so sure I like your analysis.
I'm not sure I agree with your analysis. Taking a soft handed pastoral approach does seem problematic. Especially if he can only focus on so many things at a time.
So it's ok to ignore heresy out of a pastoral application of economy?
Only as long as you at least pay lip service to Pastor Aeternus.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,404


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #518 on: April 30, 2012, 12:44:04 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.

So the pope is either negligent for not addressing the Melkite problem, lacking integrity for sweeping the problem under the rug in order to prevent schism, or himself a dissident by ignoring the teachings of his own church. I'm not so sure I like your analysis.
I'm not sure I agree with your analysis. Taking a soft handed pastoral approach does seem problematic. Especially if he can only focus on so many things at a time.
So it's ok to ignore heresy out of a pastoral application of economy?
Only as long as you at least pay lip service to Pastor Aeternus.
Izzy,
I honestly don't think that the Pope has the time to address every problem in the Church at once. Right now, the biggest problem that requires his attention is the Modernist Crisis.
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Cavaradossi
法網恢恢,疏而不漏
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Chalcedonian Automaton Serial No. 5Aj4bx9
Jurisdiction: Chalcedonian Automaton Factory 5
Posts: 1,636



« Reply #519 on: April 30, 2012, 12:48:49 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.

So the pope is either negligent for not addressing the Melkite problem, lacking integrity for sweeping the problem under the rug in order to prevent schism, or himself a dissident by ignoring the teachings of his own church. I'm not so sure I like your analysis.
I'm not sure I agree with your analysis. Taking a soft handed pastoral approach does seem problematic. Especially if he can only focus on so many things at a time.
So it's ok to ignore heresy out of a pastoral application of economy?
Has every heretic in the EO Church been dealt with? When that day comes, let me know.
If a serious heresy happened in this metropolis, and our Metropolitan did nothing to combat it, I would indeed consider him negligent. I am not arguing that Pope Benedict is being negligent, however; I'm just not so sure I buy your charge that Neil and Todd have started their own heretical religion under the pretense of being Melkites. Reality is not quite that clean cut.
Logged

Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,174



« Reply #520 on: April 30, 2012, 12:49:38 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

So are you saying that anyone who agrees with the Pope on some issues and [who agrees] with Orthodoxy on other issues is making up their own religion?
Loaded question. What do you mean by "agreeing with the Pope" on Orthodoxy?

Words added for clarity
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,404


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #521 on: April 30, 2012, 12:50:52 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.

So the pope is either negligent for not addressing the Melkite problem, lacking integrity for sweeping the problem under the rug in order to prevent schism, or himself a dissident by ignoring the teachings of his own church. I'm not so sure I like your analysis.
I'm not sure I agree with your analysis. Taking a soft handed pastoral approach does seem problematic. Especially if he can only focus on so many things at a time.
So it's ok to ignore heresy out of a pastoral application of economy?
Has every heretic in the EO Church been dealt with? When that day comes, let me know.
If a serious heresy happened in this metropolis, and our Metropolitan did nothing to combat it, I would indeed consider him negligent. I am not arguing that Pope Benedict is being negligent, however; I'm just not so sure I buy your charge that Neil and Todd have started their own heretical religion under the pretense of being Melkites. Reality is not quite that clean cut.
Well, you don't have to agree with me. However, their faith is neither fully Catholic, nor fully Eastern Orthodox. The conclusion that I can come to is that those who agree with them have their own religion that is neither fully Catholic nor fully Eastern Orthodox.
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,404


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #522 on: April 30, 2012, 12:51:22 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

So are you saying that anyone who agrees with the Pope on some issues and [who agrees] with Orthodoxy on other issues is making up their own religion?
Loaded question. What do you mean by "agreeing with the Pope" on Orthodoxy?

Words added for clarity
Anyone who claims to be Catholic, and does as you have described above, yes.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 12:51:51 PM by Papist » Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,174



« Reply #523 on: April 30, 2012, 12:59:19 PM »

Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views.

Again, I'm not going to be the one to tell the Pope that he can't Have his cake and eat it too; but for the record, he does disagree with their idea that there have only been 7 ecumenical councils, and has argued specifically against that idea.
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
elijahmaria
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 6,473



WWW
« Reply #524 on: April 30, 2012, 12:59:54 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.

So the pope is either negligent for not addressing the Melkite problem, lacking integrity for sweeping the problem under the rug in order to prevent schism, or himself a dissident by ignoring the teachings of his own church. I'm not so sure I like your analysis.

From all that I've read and seen over the years I am pretty certain his pope would not approve of it either thoug I suppose he would understand it.

No. Papist, I do not think that the pope is ignoring the Melkites.  I think there is an understanding there with regard to primatial power and authority that does not fit in your little black catholic box.

M.

Agreed, and which wouldn't fit into an Orthodox one either for that matter.

Oh...you mean the great monolith of Orthodoxy where there are no distinctions or differences?
Logged

Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,404


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #525 on: April 30, 2012, 01:00:53 PM »

Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views.

Again, I'm not going to be the one to tell the Pope that he can't Have his cake and eat it too; but for the record, he does disagree with their idea that there have only been 7 ecumenical councils, and has argued specifically against that idea.
Has he declared so as Pope? Nope. Has he argued that the rest of the councils are not dogmatic and not binding on all Catholics? Nope.
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,174



« Reply #526 on: April 30, 2012, 01:01:27 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.

So the pope is either negligent for not addressing the Melkite problem, lacking integrity for sweeping the problem under the rug in order to prevent schism, or himself a dissident by ignoring the teachings of his own church. I'm not so sure I like your analysis.
I'm not sure I agree with your analysis. Taking a soft handed pastoral approach does seem problematic. Especially if he can only focus on so many things at a time.
So it's ok to ignore heresy out of a pastoral application of economy?
Has every heretic in the EO Church been dealt with? When that day comes, let me know.
If a serious heresy happened in this metropolis, and our Metropolitan did nothing to combat it, I would indeed consider him negligent. I am not arguing that Pope Benedict is being negligent, however; I'm just not so sure I buy your charge that Neil and Todd have started their own heretical religion under the pretense of being Melkites. Reality is not quite that clean cut.
Well, you don't have to agree with me. However, their faith is neither fully Catholic, nor fully Eastern Orthodox. The conclusion that I can come to is that those who agree with them have their own religion that is neither fully Catholic nor fully Eastern Orthodox.

In other words, everyone has to take one side or the other, eh?
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,404


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #527 on: April 30, 2012, 01:01:56 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.

So the pope is either negligent for not addressing the Melkite problem, lacking integrity for sweeping the problem under the rug in order to prevent schism, or himself a dissident by ignoring the teachings of his own church. I'm not so sure I like your analysis.
I'm not sure I agree with your analysis. Taking a soft handed pastoral approach does seem problematic. Especially if he can only focus on so many things at a time.
So it's ok to ignore heresy out of a pastoral application of economy?
Has every heretic in the EO Church been dealt with? When that day comes, let me know.
If a serious heresy happened in this metropolis, and our Metropolitan did nothing to combat it, I would indeed consider him negligent. I am not arguing that Pope Benedict is being negligent, however; I'm just not so sure I buy your charge that Neil and Todd have started their own heretical religion under the pretense of being Melkites. Reality is not quite that clean cut.
Well, you don't have to agree with me. However, their faith is neither fully Catholic, nor fully Eastern Orthodox. The conclusion that I can come to is that those who agree with them have their own religion that is neither fully Catholic nor fully Eastern Orthodox.

In other words, everyone has to take one side or the other, eh?
"I wish you were either hot or cold" - Jesus
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
elijahmaria
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 6,473



WWW
« Reply #528 on: April 30, 2012, 01:02:25 PM »

Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views.

Again, I'm not going to be the one to tell the Pope that he can't Have his cake and eat it too; but for the record, he does disagree with their idea that there have only been 7 ecumenical councils, and has argued specifically against that idea.

As with the ancient holy fathers, there is apparently a refusal to break communion over some of the details of tradition.

M.
Logged

ZealousZeal
Gainsaying Helpmeet
Archon
********
Online Online

Faith: ✔
Posts: 2,763


look into my lovable alpaca eyes


« Reply #529 on: April 30, 2012, 01:02:31 PM »

Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views.

Again, I'm not going to be the one to tell the Pope that he can't Have his cake and eat it too; but for the record, he does disagree with their idea that there have only been 7 ecumenical councils, and has argued specifically against that idea.

Do you remember where? That is interesting.
Logged

"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,404


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #530 on: April 30, 2012, 01:03:15 PM »

Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views.

Again, I'm not going to be the one to tell the Pope that he can't Have his cake and eat it too; but for the record, he does disagree with their idea that there have only been 7 ecumenical councils, and has argued specifically against that idea.

Do you remember where? That is interesting.
I am guessing that it is something that he said as a cardinal.
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,174



« Reply #531 on: April 30, 2012, 01:04:51 PM »

Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views.

Again, I'm not going to be the one to tell the Pope that he can't Have his cake and eat it too; but for the record, he does disagree with their idea that there have only been 7 ecumenical councils, and has argued specifically against that idea.
Has he declared so as Pope? Nope. Has he argued that the rest of the councils are not dogmatic and not binding on all Catholics? Nope.

This seems like a slightly odd post. Are you just restating my point in a different way?
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
ZealousZeal
Gainsaying Helpmeet
Archon
********
Online Online

Faith: ✔
Posts: 2,763


look into my lovable alpaca eyes


« Reply #532 on: April 30, 2012, 01:04:58 PM »

Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views.

Again, I'm not going to be the one to tell the Pope that he can't Have his cake and eat it too; but for the record, he does disagree with their idea that there have only been 7 ecumenical councils, and has argued specifically against that idea.

Do you remember where? That is interesting.
I am guessing that it is something that he said as a cardinal.

You're probably right, I'm mostly curious to see how many ecumenical councils he believes there were, and his argument.
Logged

"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,174



« Reply #533 on: April 30, 2012, 01:08:55 PM »

BTW, a few posts have mentioned Joe ... I'm assuming Joe Monahan, a.k.a. Neil, is meant?

Thanks Peter. I was starting to feel a bit left out.

Chris,

As I have explained before - Joe Monahan was a pseudonym used in my former role as a mod at CAF in the days when the EC forum there meant Eastern Christianity. My name is Neil, honest it is! Me, 'the Irish one', as Mary is wont to call me.

Btw, if Todd and I are going to start our own Church, any suggestions as to how we should choose our patriarch?

I really regret taht I have to be away and off-line pretty much all weekend - catching up on this thread is going to be a bear.

Many years,

Neil - that's spelled N E I L - short for Cornelius - which is also not spelled J O E
No idea. Since you've made up your own religion, I'm sure you are creative enough to make up a way to select a patriach. I'm guessing it will have something to do with rolling a twenty-sided die and two six sided dice.  A D20 and 2 D6's.

That is a cheap shot.  As I mentioned before if your pontiff had a problem with Neil and Tod's patriarch I think we'd know about it.  So you might follow suit.

What I have said is that I am not certain that your pontiff or their patriarch would display the attitude on display here, which Todd is apparently proud enough of to continue undaunted.  I am not sure about the Irish One... Smiley  Some days I am tempted to make friends other days I don't have enough band-aids.

M.
Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views. Perhaps he has bigger fish to fry in the modernists. Perhaps he doesn't want to risk a painful schism with the Melkites. Whatever the case, the Church has a problem with dissidents like Neil and Todd, because Ecumenical Councils declare such people "anathema". Those are the Church's words, not my own.

So the pope is either negligent for not addressing the Melkite problem, lacking integrity for sweeping the problem under the rug in order to prevent schism, or himself a dissident by ignoring the teachings of his own church. I'm not so sure I like your analysis.
I'm not sure I agree with your analysis. Taking a soft handed pastoral approach does seem problematic. Especially if he can only focus on so many things at a time.
So it's ok to ignore heresy out of a pastoral application of economy?
Has every heretic in the EO Church been dealt with? When that day comes, let me know.
If a serious heresy happened in this metropolis, and our Metropolitan did nothing to combat it, I would indeed consider him negligent. I am not arguing that Pope Benedict is being negligent, however; I'm just not so sure I buy your charge that Neil and Todd have started their own heretical religion under the pretense of being Melkites. Reality is not quite that clean cut.
Well, you don't have to agree with me. However, their faith is neither fully Catholic, nor fully Eastern Orthodox. The conclusion that I can come to is that those who agree with them have their own religion that is neither fully Catholic nor fully Eastern Orthodox.

In other words, everyone has to take one side or the other, eh?
"I wish you were either hot or cold" - Jesus

Which one corresponds to being Catholic (or, for Isa, "in communion with the Vatican"), and which one corresponds to being Orthodox?
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Moderated
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 38,135



« Reply #534 on: April 30, 2012, 01:23:43 PM »

Izzy

Who?
I honestly don't think that the Pope has the time to address every problem in the Church at once.
Troubles in paradise?  To hear talk of how much we need a supreme pontiff, one would think ya'll would have solved your problems.

After all, you claimed that this was solved:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13539a.htm
Quote
The Western Schism was only a temporary misunderstanding, even though it compelled the Church for forty years to seek its true head
LOL.
Quote
the Council of Constance (1414) deposed the suspicious John XXIII, received the abdication of the gentle and timid Gregory XII, and finally dismissed the obstinate Benedict XIII. On 11 November, 1417, the assembly elected Odo Colonna, who took the name of Martin V. Thus ended the great schism of the West.

btw
Quote
"A temporal kingdom would have succumbed thereto; but the organization of the spiritual kingdom was so wonderful, the ideal of the papacy so indestructible, that this, the most serious of schisms, served only to demonstrate its indivisibility"..."This scourge of contemporaries is for us an historical treasure. It serves to prove how immovable is the throne of St. Peter. What human organization would have withstood this trial?"
For one, the Russian Throne: it withstood the decades of the "Time of Troubles."

But back to the three "fonts of unity of the Church":
Quote
"Doubt still shrouds the validity of the three rival lines of pontiffs during the four decades subsequent to the still disputed papal election of 1378. This makes suspect the credentials of the cardinals created by the Roman, Avignon, and Pisan claimants to the Apostolic See. Unity was finally restored without a definitive solution to the question; for the Council of Constance succeeded in terminating the Western Schism, not by declaring which of the three claimants was the rightful one, but by eliminating all of them by forcing their abdication or deposition, and then setting up a novel arrangement for choosing a new pope acceptable to all sides. To this day the Church has never made any official, authoritative pronouncement about the papal lines of succession for this confusing period; nor has Martin V or any of his successors. Modern scholars are not agreed in their solutions; although they tend to favor the Roman line."
J.F. Broderick, "The Sacred College of Cardinals: Size and Geographical Composition (1099–1986)." Archivum historiae Pontificiae, 25: p. 14. (1987)
The Pisan line however has the favor of the Vatican's supreme pontiff Alexander VI (following the Pisan Pope Alexander V) and the medalions in St. Paul-Beyond-the-Walls. Only in the 20th century did the Annuaria Pontifica drop them from the semi-official (the "infallible" pontiffs will not approve an official list of their predecessors.  It would bind them), and the Vatican's SP John XXIII disagree with this predecessor SP Alexander VI in favoring the Roman line over the Pisan Pope John XXIII.

Right now, the biggest problem that requires his attention is the Modernist Crisis.
You mean the one that your supreme, infallible, pontiffs fueled by Vatican II and the bishops they appointed to implement it?
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Wyatt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Posts: 2,395


« Reply #535 on: April 30, 2012, 01:27:05 PM »

After all, you claimed that this was solved:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13539a.htm
Quote
The Western Schism was only a temporary misunderstanding, even though it compelled the Church for forty years to seek its true head
You know, as much as you try to rub our faces in the Western schism, one fact remains: we survived it. Looks like the Holy Spirit is stronger than your polemics.
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,957


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #536 on: April 30, 2012, 01:32:17 PM »

After all, you claimed that this was solved:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13539a.htm
Quote
The Western Schism was only a temporary misunderstanding, even though it compelled the Church for forty years to seek its true head
You know, as much as you try to rub our faces in the Western schism, one fact remains: we survived it. Looks like the Holy Spirit is stronger than your polemics.

Seems to me that neither a humble RC nor a humble Orthodox ought to invoke the Holy Spirit in a proprietary manner within the context of a polemical debate.

After all, Orthodoxy too survived the great schism begun in 1054, the Muslim Yoke, the Tatar occupation and the Communists. Roman Catholicism survived the Reformation. God indeed works in mysterious ways.
Logged
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,404


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #537 on: April 30, 2012, 01:37:29 PM »

Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views.

Again, I'm not going to be the one to tell the Pope that he can't Have his cake and eat it too; but for the record, he does disagree with their idea that there have only been 7 ecumenical councils, and has argued specifically against that idea.
Has he declared so as Pope? Nope. Has he argued that the rest of the councils are not dogmatic and not binding on all Catholics? Nope.

This seems like a slightly odd post. Are you just restating my point in a different way?
No, I am saying that in his capacity as Pope, His Holiness has never denied the dogmatic status of the the councils after the seventh.
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,267


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #538 on: April 30, 2012, 01:45:50 PM »

After all, you claimed that this was solved:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13539a.htm
Quote
The Western Schism was only a temporary misunderstanding, even though it compelled the Church for forty years to seek its true head
You know, as much as you try to rub our faces in the Western schism, one fact remains: we survived it. Looks like the Holy Spirit is stronger than your polemics.

Seems to me that neither a humble RC nor a humble Orthodox ought to invoke the Holy Spirit in a proprietary manner within the context of a polemical debate.

After all, Orthodoxy too survived the great schism begun in 1054, the Muslim Yoke, the Tatar occupation and the Communists. Roman Catholicism survived the Reformation. God indeed works in mysterious ways.

I take your point, but it doesn't seem to me that Wyatt was claiming "ownership" of the Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church.
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
ZealousZeal
Gainsaying Helpmeet
Archon
********
Online Online

Faith: ✔
Posts: 2,763


look into my lovable alpaca eyes


« Reply #539 on: April 30, 2012, 01:46:07 PM »

Just because the Pope has not addressed dissidents like Neil and Todd, doesn't mean that he doesn't have a problem with their views.

Again, I'm not going to be the one to tell the Pope that he can't Have his cake and eat it too; but for the record, he does disagree with their idea that there have only been 7 ecumenical councils, and has argued specifically against that idea.
Has he declared so as Pope? Nope. Has he argued that the rest of the councils are not dogmatic and not binding on all Catholics? Nope.

This seems like a slightly odd post. Are you just restating my point in a different way?
No, I am saying that in his capacity as Pope, His Holiness has never denied the dogmatic status of the the councils after the seventh.

I think you may have misread Peter, or else I'm not getting it. Check the bolded sentence, he's agreeing with you.
Logged

"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.269 seconds with 72 queries.