Author Topic: confusion  (Read 1695 times)

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Offline primuspilus

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confusion
« on: April 19, 2012, 01:32:35 PM »
I've heard this both ways so I'd like clarification.

For κύριος (and the feminine version as well)

is it pronounced koo-ri-os or kee-ree-os?

This is killin me.

thanks

pp
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Offline elephant

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Re: confusion
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2012, 03:18:42 PM »
Dear primuspilus,

The real Greek people I hear pronounce it like "kee".

But what do they know?

love, elephant

Offline primuspilus

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Re: confusion
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2012, 03:20:47 PM »
Yeah, see I've learned that when the upsilon is not preceeded by a vowel, it's "ee" or like a Y. however, I head alot of folks, when referring to a priest's wife or something say , "koo-ree-a". Almost like the nation of Korea but jumbling the second syllable up......

I dont know why it irritates me so much but it does :)

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: confusion
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2012, 03:25:40 PM »
Yeah, see I've learned that when the upsilon is not preceeded by a vowel, it's "ee" or like a Y. however, I head alot of folks, when referring to a priest's wife or something say , "koo-ree-a". Almost like the nation of Korea but jumbling the second syllable up......

I dont know why it irritates me so much but it does :)

PP

isn't "khouria" arabic for a priest's wife?

Offline elephant

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Re: confusion
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2012, 03:29:39 PM »
When my godmother, in her 80's, started going to an OCA church she wanted to call the priest's wife "Matushka", but it came out
"My tush".  After everyone had a laugh, she decided to stick with "Presbytera".
btw,  I think its from the Arabic tradition that the priest's wife  would be called "Khouria".   But what do I know?  

Offline Rufus

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Re: confusion
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2012, 06:46:51 PM »
Yeah, see I've learned that when the upsilon is not preceeded by a vowel, it's "ee" or like a Y. however, I head alot of folks, when referring to a priest's wife or something say , "koo-ree-a". Almost like the nation of Korea but jumbling the second syllable up......

I dont know why it irritates me so much but it does :)

PP

"Khouriya" is an Arabic word, and is not related to Kyrios.

The proper pronunciation is "KY-ri-os," and in the feminine, "ky-RI-a."

However, in Erasmian pronunciation, the Ypsilon is pronounced like a U.

Offline akimori makoto

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Re: confusion
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2012, 07:23:42 PM »
I've heard this both ways so I'd like clarification.

For κύριος (and the feminine version as well)

is it pronounced koo-ri-os or kee-ree-os?

This is killin me.

thanks

pp

This is why I asked you months ago which pronunciation you were learning.

If you had shared, I could have prevented you from falling into the Satanic delusion of "Kurios".
The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: confusion
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2012, 08:03:16 PM »
Yeah, see I've learned that when the upsilon is not preceeded by a vowel, it's "ee" or like a Y. however, I head alot of folks, when referring to a priest's wife or something say , "koo-ree-a". Almost like the nation of Korea but jumbling the second syllable up......

I dont know why it irritates me so much but it does :)

PP

"Khouriya" is an Arabic word, and is not related to Kyrios.

The proper pronunciation is "KY-ri-os," and in the feminine, "ky-RI-a."

However, in Erasmian pronunciation, the Ypsilon is pronounced like a U.

Exactly correct. In my years of wrestling with the many "types' of Greek based on the respective era of study I have come to think that even what is taught in universities as Erasmusian pronunciation is itself flawed from what Erasmus himself devised.
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline primuspilus

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Re: confusion
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2012, 07:29:55 AM »
Quote
This is why I asked you months ago which pronunciation you were learning.

If you had shared, I could have prevented you from falling into the Satanic delusion of "Kurios".
I did answer you, however I also think kurios is satanic, if not some horrid latinization  :laugh: :laugh:

Quote
"Khouriya" is an Arabic word, and is not related to Kyrios.

The proper pronunciation is "KY-ri-os," and in the feminine, "ky-RI-a."

However, in Erasmian pronunciation, the Ypsilon is pronounced like a U
Gotcha. Thanks!

Quote
Exactly correct. In my years of wrestling with the many "types' of Greek based on the respective era of study I have come to think that even what is taught in universities as Erasmusian pronunciation is itself flawed from what Erasmus himself devised
What are the different pronounciations?

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Online Cyrillic

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Re: confusion
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2012, 11:49:31 AM »
I've heard this both ways so I'd like clarification.

For κύριος (and the feminine version as well)

is it pronounced koo-ri-os or kee-ree-os?

This is killin me.

thanks

pp

I don't think Kyrios has a feminine version. At least not in attic.
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me"
-Benjamin Disraeli

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: confusion
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2012, 03:15:27 PM »
I've heard this both ways so I'd like clarification.

For κύριος (and the feminine version as well)

is it pronounced koo-ri-os or kee-ree-os?

This is killin me.

thanks

pp

I don't think Kyrios has a feminine version. At least not in attic.

Not in Attic written form, but we've no idea whatsoever if there existed back then the slight pronunciation difference between genders as exists now.
I am lousy at transliteration and the difference is so slight that the best advice I can give short of finding a live Greek speaker is to find a voiced example on the Internet - they are out there. I think the kypros.org site has these in an early lesson.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 03:15:51 PM by Αριστοκλής »
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline LBK

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Re: confusion
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2012, 06:43:06 PM »
Quote
I don't think Kyrios has a feminine version. At least not in attic.

There is indeed a feminine form of kyrios. It is kyria (κυρία).
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to email me at the address in my profile.

Online Cyrillic

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Re: confusion
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2012, 04:13:47 PM »
Quote
I don't think Kyrios has a feminine version. At least not in attic.

There is indeed a feminine form of kyrios. It is kyria (κυρία).

Kyria seems to be limited to modern greek, at least it didn't exist in attic greek. Of δεσπότης there doesn't seem to be a feminine form either, the usage of δέσποινα being limited to new greek.

So, the Ancient (and Byzantine?) Greeks had no word for a female master. Wasn't that the problem Empress Irene ran into as well when she awkwardly decided to style herself βασιλεύς instead of βασίλισσα?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 04:21:01 PM by Cyrillic »
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Online Cyrillic

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Re: confusion
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2012, 11:01:58 AM »
I recant, δέσποινα is found in ancient greek.
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Offline Apostolos

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Re: confusion
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2012, 10:09:52 AM »
I've heard this both ways so I'd like clarification.

For κύριος (and the feminine version as well)

is it pronounced koo-ri-os or kee-ree-os?

This is killin me.

thanks

pp

I don't think Kyrios has a feminine version. At least not in attic.

Not in Attic written form, but we've no idea whatsoever if there existed back then the slight pronunciation difference between genders as exists now.
I am lousy at transliteration and the difference is so slight that the best advice I can give short of finding a live Greek speaker is to find a voiced example on the Internet - they are out there. I think the kypros.org site has these in an early lesson.
Pronunciation of "Κύριος"
In International Phonetic Alphabet it's ['ciɾi.os]
Pronunciation of "Κυρία"
In IPA it's [ci'ɾi.a]
The letter [r] in intervocalic position is pronounced as a tapped [ɾ]
Ἄνωθεν οἱ Προφῆται. Ἦχος Βαρύς.

St. John Papadopoulos "The Koukouzelis"

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: confusion
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2012, 10:29:13 AM »
I've heard this both ways so I'd like clarification.

For κύριος (and the feminine version as well)

is it pronounced koo-ri-os or kee-ree-os?

This is killin me.

thanks

pp

I don't think Kyrios has a feminine version. At least not in attic.

Not in Attic written form, but we've no idea whatsoever if there existed back then the slight pronunciation difference between genders as exists now.
I am lousy at transliteration and the difference is so slight that the best advice I can give short of finding a live Greek speaker is to find a voiced example on the Internet - they are out there. I think the kypros.org site has these in an early lesson.
Pronunciation of "Κύριος"
In International Phonetic Alphabet it's ['ciɾi.os]
Pronunciation of "Κυρία"
In IPA it's [ci'ɾi.a]
The letter [r] in intervocalic position is pronounced as a tapped [ɾ]

That's wild! Attic for the first; modern for the second. Go figure...if you can.
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides