OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 01, 2014, 08:29:31 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Should I tell my family that I'm leaving Reformed Baptist for Orthodoxy?  (Read 1865 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Protoman2050
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe
Posts: 64


« on: April 18, 2012, 02:35:15 PM »

I may become a social martyr for my conversion to Orthodoxy. My Mom, her family, and Dad are devoutly Protestant, while Dad's family is devoutly Roman Catholic.

Mom likely idolizes the scholasticism of John Calvin. I just found out he was intellectually dishonest and lied about rejecting all the Fathers; his entire theology is based on Augustine and a horribly literal interpretation of Eph 2:1-10. I don't think she realizes that he revived Gnosticism with his doctrines of grace. And she's going have a fit about icons (the Tabernacle had them), praying to saints (any argument I hear against this either treats it like divination or also bans us from asking our friends to pray for us), and veneration of Mary, The Most Holy Theotokos (we do not worship her like the Catholics, we respect her for allowing us the Savior and that's it). Along with hesychasm (Mt 6:7 does not condemn this, and it helps us to fulfill St Paul's exhortation in 1 Thess 5:17; she likely thinks it's the same as Roman Catholic and Emergent contemplative prayer, which is "meaningless babbling") and asceticism (does she forget about the OT Prophets, St John the Baptist, and Jesus?) "Paganism" and evil are not ontological properties, they are uses of something. Does any Protestant remember what St Paul wrote in 1 Cor 8? Also, I believe that anything not explicitly and specifically condemned by Scripture and Tradition is permitted.

Also, the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith she and our old churches back in America holds to both makes God to be evil (almost like merging the Gnostic Demiurge with its "God") and flat out contradicts itself, general revelation, Scripture, and the Fathers. It's like no-one read this thing before publishing it to check for accuracy and coherency. But what can you expect from a group of intellectually dishonest apostates? They're not even being honest about being apostates, and practically blaspheme against the Holy Spirit by saying every Father was wrong, and only during the 1500s the Church regained the teachings of the Apostles.

And Dad likely believes, like many others, that the Orthodox Church is just Catholicism without the Pope. And his family will likely start throwing out standard Catholic polemic.

Why do I feel like a gay man coming out of the closet? Nevertheless, I will take Jer 20:11 and 2 Cor 12:10 to heart.

Luckily, my current Reformed Baptist church says that they will not condemn me for breaking with their beliefs, and will continue to accept me as a valued member of their community. Matt greatly respects me for broadening his own understanding of his Christianity, and is quite happy to see God's grace working in me (funny aside how he implies that "irresistable" grace is using a systematic theology that rejects it to increase itself in me) .
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 02:39:14 PM by Protoman2050 » Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,473



« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2012, 02:41:22 PM »

You should tell them, as they will find out eventually (if they don't, I'd question how Orthodox you've become  Tongue).  But you do not have to tell them right away.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Shiranui117
Formerly known as "Wandering Sheep"
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Inquirer)
Jurisdiction: ACROD/OCA
Posts: 150


PUDDI PUDDI!


« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2012, 03:16:24 PM »

Yeah, I'll second what ialmisry said. Pick a time when they're in a particularly good and lenient mood to break the news; it might go over better. Or not. Tongue

Either way, you seem to be pretty well-prepared to defend your reasoning for leaving Reformed Baptist. But I'd advise only using that knowledge if they ask the relevant questions; no sense in slapping them across the face with arguments and damaging the dynamic between you and your family. And this is common sense, but if the discussion/debate/argument gets too heated, walk away from it.
Logged
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,188


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2012, 03:29:46 PM »

If you were hispanic like me, the best time to drop this bomb would be around the dinner table at Christmas or Thanksgivinig. Wink
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: On-n-Off
Jurisdiction: OCA (the only truly Canonical American Orthodox Church)
Posts: 5,555


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2012, 03:51:05 PM »

If you were hispanic like me, the best time to drop this bomb would be around the dinner table at Christmas or Thanksgivinig when everyone is happy and intoxicated Smiley

fix'd

source: another hispanic.

Anyway, being serious. You are going to have to tell them sooner or later. I would personally wait until you are better learned about Orthodoxy because you will need to defend it from them. I pretty much have to on a weekly basis with my Protestant family who thinks that I'm a pagan Roman Catholic minus the Pope. Just tell them when you are ready, but do not constantly bash their beliefs, although it is really tempting seeing how absurd they are. Be kind. But if they bash your beliefs, then defend them and stand up for your faith. But don't keep arguing with people who just will not understand, lest they pull you down to their level.

Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2012, 03:57:52 PM »

I agree with what has already been said here. They'll have to know eventually, so find a time where breaking the news will be easiest, both for you and for them.

Though, I would add to your last statement, that if you do become Orthodox you will no longer be a "member of the community" in your old Baptist church. You leave the teachings, and therefore the ecclesiological fellowship (particularly, the breaking of bread in the Eucharist), of your old church to join yourself fully to the Orthodox faith. You will no longer be a member of their congregation. That doesn't mean they can't still be your friends, but the dynamic of the relationship will change.

This is a hard transition to go through. I grew up with many Baptist friends, who were uncomfortable but accepting when I became Presbyterian. However, becoming Orthodox...some of them no longer even speak with me. It's a tough reality, and something we should be prepared for as we make the decision to convert.
Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
Protoman2050
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe
Posts: 64


« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2012, 04:07:08 PM »

Yeah, I will, eventually. After I talk with Hieromonk David on Sunday after Divine Liturgy about my catachumate, I'll ask him for advice. Also, Pastor Wes and Matt have said I'm giving very good arguments for Orthodoxy and against Reformed using Scripture and the Fathers, and they greatly respect my commitment, though they do plan on debating more with me, as all Christians are to do. They said that while they obviously have major disagreements (original sin, atonement, salvation, predestination, etc.), they truly do not believe I have erred, just have a different take on things.  

And as Elder Joseph the Hesychast said, echoing Rom 5:3-4 and James 1:2-4 "Whoever is insulted and forbears, whoever is wronged and forgives, whoever is slandered and endures, whoever becomes a sponge and mops up whatever they might say to him. Such a person is cleansed and polished even more. He reaches great heights. He delights in the theoria of mysteries. And finally, it is he who is already inside paradise, while still in this life."

I wrote up a statement of faith; could you check it for unOrthodox statements?

Quote

The Nature of God
1.   God is eternal, uncreated, and impassable.
2.   God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent.
3.   He exists as a hypostatic union of three Persons sharing one nature, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, who are in perfect communion with one another. He is the personification of love
4.   He created ex nihilo and is sovereign over all reality, though He freely chooses to limit this sovereignty with respect to Man’s free will.
The Nature of Man
1.   Man has been created by God to be loved by and to love Him.
2.   Man shares His nature and faculties, and possesses a temporally and spatially limited version of these attributes of God.
3.   Man has free will, able to choose to love God and to do good
4.   Adam, the first Man was in perfect communion with God in the Garden of Eden
5.   Adam was lonely so God created Eve, the first woman
The Fall of Man
1.   God told Adam, the first Man, not to eat of the Tree of Omniscience in the Garden of Eden
2.   Satan, in the form of the serpent, tempted Eve that they would become like God if they ate of its fruit.
3.   She agreed, and shared the fruit with Adam.
4.   Due to finite Man not being able to handle omniscience, Man’s faculties of will became clouded with insanity, though his perfect nature remained undefiled. This is called hamartia.
5.   The effect of this insanity is called sin, which is failing to display the perfect nature he was created with.
6.   Due to Man having disobeyed God and no longer being able to have communion with Him, God was grieved. He kicked Adam and Eve out of Eden, not willing that they may eat of the Tree of Life, becoming immortal and destroying reality due to their loss of insight into goodness.
7.   He promised that He would send a Savior to them so that they may be healed from their hamartia, and be restored into communion with Himself.
The Law of God
1.   God, being the Great Physician, has always wished for Man to be restored into communion with Himself.
2.   In order to protect Man from the effects of his insanity, God ordained the Law.
3.   The Law was never intended to cure Man of his insanity due to hamartia, but to show it to him like a mirror, so that he might recognize his need for restoration of his communion with God through the promised Savior.
4.   The sacrificial system of the Law was not a method to appease His anger over sin, but to provide Man with a way to prove his contrition for his sin and bring him partially back to communion while the Savior was withheld from him until the fullness of time.
The Justice and Wrath of God
1.   God’s wrath is corrective and never punitive.
2.   His wrath is not like a judge sentencing a criminal for a crime committed, but like a surgeon amputating a badly infected leg that has not responded to milder remedies so that the infection will not kill the patient.
The Mercy of God
1.   If Man is truly contrite and repentant of his sin, God will be merciful and not take His wrath out on him.
The Grace of God
1.   God constantly and without ceasing calls Man to repent and be brought back into communion with Him.
2.   Man is free to accept His call or to reject it, as despite being insane due to hamartia, he does have the innate ability to seek God in moments of clarity.
3.   If Man accepts, God will increase his ability to follow Him. If Man rejects it, He will do nothing.
The Nature of the Savior
1.   The Savior of Man is Jesus Christ, the incarnated Second Person of the Trinity in a hypostatic union of human and divine natures and will.
2.   He was immaculately conceived by the virgin Mary, The Most Holy Theotokos, upon her acceptance of the Archangel Gabriel’s announcement.
The Nature of the Atonement and Resurrection
1.   Jesus Christ’s divinity precluded hamartia from manifesting, allowing Him to be the only man in perfect communion with God.
2.   He was betrayed by Judas Iscariot and crucified by Pontius Pilate under pressure from the Jewish leadership.
3.   Upon His crucifixion, He took on our hamartia, temporarily falling out of communion with God.
4.   The shedding of His blood upon His death releases his divinity to all of Man, allowing them to partake of His nature, so that we may be fully restored into communion with God. Mary was atoned for at the moment of her conception of Him due to sharing a blood supply.
5.   He descended into Hell and rescued everyone who believed in His coming.
6.   Due to His divinity, death could only keep hold of Him for three days, and He rose again
The Nature of Salvation
1.   Salvation is the process of using Christ’s divinity infused into oneself to cooperate with His grace in returning to communion with Him.
2.   This process is jeopardized by sin, which, if unrepentantly committed, ignoring His constant offer of mercy, will lead to final impenitence and exclusion from communion with Him.
The Nature of Heaven and Hell
1.   Heaven is being in the presence of God having accepted Christ’s offer to drink His blood and return to communion with Him. His perfect love is felt as pure ecstasy due to joy.
2.   Hell is being in the presence of God having rejected Christ’s offer to drink His blood and return to communion with Him. His perfect love is felt as pure torment due to shame.
The Nature of the Eucharist
1.   The Eucharist is not merely a symbolic act, it is the actual partaking of His flesh and blood so that we may be infused with the divinity of Christ and have our will returned to its original state.
2.   How the bread and wine actually become His flesh and blood is incomprehensible
The Nature of Baptism
1.   Baptism in the name of the Trinity cleanses Man of his sins and mysteriously crucifies, buries, and resurrects him with Christ. How this is so is incomprehensible, and it is not merely symbolic.
The Nature of Chrismation
1.   Chrismation is the anointing of a person with oil, which imparts the Holy Spirit to them via their participation in Pentecost. How this is so is incomprehensible and it is not merely symbolic.
The Nature of Confession
1.   Confession is the act of showing contrition and repentance for our sins against God and receiving His mercy and forgiveness, witnessed by a priest.
2.   Its seal is inviolable.
The Nature of the Church
1.   The Church is composed of all those who believe in Christ as their Savior, and is His Bride.
2.   Those men in the Church who have shown to have expert knowledge of the faith may be ordained as priests to expound the Scriptures and perform the Sacraments for the faithful, or deacons to assist him. They may be married or celibate
3.   Women may be ordained as deaconesses
4.   Bishops are celibate priests who have shown themselves to be truly expert, and are placed over a geographical region to maintain doctrinal unity and teach the faithful
The Nature of the Scriptures and their place in Tradition
1.   The Scriptures include the Jewish Torah, Gospels, and Apostolic Epistles, the precise content of which being determined by Church consensus over history
2.   Tradition includes the writings of the Church Fathers and decisions of the ecumenical councils.
3.   Tradition must not contradict Scripture, but explain and clarify it.
The Nature of Monasticism
1.   Those faithful who are called to a life of contemplating God and His Word through prayer, study, and teaching may become monks if male, or nuns if female
2.   They live in a community, are celibate, and have taken a vow of chastity, poverty, and obedience to a senior member.
The Nature of Prayer
1.   Prayer is conversing with God to conform us to His will, and meditating on His Word to assist us in that conformation
2.   It is advisable to be done constantly and without ceasing
The Nature of Icons and Saints
1.   Saints are all the departed faithful in Heaven. Saints who have been recognized as being great workers for God and his Church through their steadfast cooperation with His grace may receive the title of “Saint,” but both classes may be venerated and be asked to lift us up in their prayers to Him, as we respect and ask our friends on earth to pray for us in their prayers. They are absolutely not to be worshipped.
2.   Icons are images of Christ and Saints, and may be venerated to remind oneself of what they have done for the Church. They are absolutely not to be worshipped as pagan idols.

Can you remind me of Scriptures and Fathers to cite in that?

And actually, our Reformed Baptist church places so little emphasis on the Eucharist it's practically non-existent. And our church actually has a wide variety of people attending who believe different (Protestant) things. He said "as long as what you believe doesn't compromise the centrality of Christ, I couldn't care less about its nature. We are all the Body of Christ."

They have said emphatically that they will not forsake me over this.

Also, The Community of St Gregory the Theologian at my University only holds Divine Liturgy once a month due to Hieromonk David having to travel from his parish in Nottingham.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 04:10:17 PM by Protoman2050 » Logged
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,245



« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2012, 04:27:09 PM »

Luckily, my current Reformed Baptist church says that they will not condemn me for breaking with their beliefs, and will continue to accept me as a valued member of their community.

Don't you just love it. You reject their beliefs but you are still a member of their community.
Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2012, 04:27:26 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

If your father's family is Catholic, and your mother's family is Baptist and things have worked out this long between them, your conversion should be fine Wink

My advice, focus more on what Orthodox is doing for you, and less on what you think about them.  Don't mention any theology, any apologetics, any explanations other then how God is helping you through your relationship with the Orthodox Church.  Don't make it a "I converted to Orthodox because Calvin is a liar and the Pope is a bit misled" because that is only a slightly veiled attack at your parents, which directly violates both the Law and the Gospels.  Instead, again focus not on the theological or historical reasons supporting your conversion, rather focus on the good it has done for your heart, for your mind, and for your soul.  Your mother will understand that completely, and your father can surely respect that.  Folks in the family will of course have their ups and downs during the next few years of transition, but if your faith is sincere and your attitude is positive it will all work out for the best.  Family is a place where we can be ourselves in every regard, but we still have to be polite and respectful to each other, and that includes us being humble about our conversions.  

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,467


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2012, 04:30:22 PM »

Just as an aside, Protoman2050.

LUFC?
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2012, 04:31:09 PM »

And actually, our Reformed Baptist church places so little emphasis on the Eucharist it's practically non-existent. And our church actually has a wide variety of people attending who believe different (Protestant) things. He said "as long as what you believe doesn't compromise the centrality of Christ, I couldn't care less about its nature. We are all the Body of Christ."

This illumines the problem I seek to highlight even further. They do not have a proper, Christian sacramental theology. They don't care about the central act established by Christ in the Gospels over and over again in all he said and did. Of course, without this sense of sacrament also comes a lack of the sense of Church, evidenced by the statement, "We are all the Body of Christ" which is explicitly antithetical to the Orthodox Faith.

I will look over your "statement of faith" a little later, as it is quite long. The Orthodox statement of faith is a bit more brief, though of course, it must be properly understood:

Quote from: Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed (The Symbol of Faith)
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible:
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all ages,
Light of Light, True God of True God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made:
Who for us men and for our salvation came down from the heavens, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man; And was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried;
And rose again on the third day, according to the Scriptures;
And ascended into the heavens, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father;
And shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, Who spake by the Prophets;
In One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
I Confess one Baptism for the remission of sins.
I look for the Resurrection of the dead,
And the life of the age to come, Amen.
Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
mabsoota
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 2,468


Kyrie eleison


« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2012, 05:09:44 PM »

quick answer:
if u r over 16, u don't have to tell them at all.
you have grown up and get to decide for yourself!

longer answer:
if u r close to them, u should let yr close friends and family see that u r on a spiritual journey.
listen politely to all the 'idol worshipping / not true Christian' complaints.
soon u will get used to them. before too long u will even be able to listen to the full anti orthodox rant without interrupting or getting angry!
Wink
but get used to it, this is the best defense against taking it personally or getting upset when yr new beliefs are slandered.

remember that just because u r becoming orthodox, it doesn't mean yr protestant family and friends have suddenly become extremist heretics.
God still loves them.
treat them kindly, just as u hope to be treated.
never reply to like with like ('you're not going to heaven either...' etc. etc.)

if u are married, it's very important to discuss these things with yr spouse / kids very early on.
our enemy loves to destroy marriages and upset kids, so it should be yr top priority to show great love in yr family.
share yr spiritual journey with them, so they will hopefully follow (at their own speed).
may God guide u.
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,473



« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2012, 05:56:06 PM »

Yeah, I'll second what ialmisry said. Pick a time when they're in a particularly good and lenient mood to break the news; it might go over better. Or not. Tongue

Either way, you seem to be pretty well-prepared to defend your reasoning for leaving Reformed Baptist. But I'd advise only using that knowledge if they ask the relevant questions; no sense in slapping them across the face with arguments and damaging the dynamic between you and your family. And this is common sense, but if the discussion/debate/argument gets too heated, walk away from it.
Yeah, you should be grounded a little and prepared a little for the questions they will have for you, before you tell them.  You might want to write down what questions/plan of attack your family would have for Orthodoxy, and discuss them with your priest, the sooner the better.

Then there is the chance they will come around in time.  My mother did.  One family I know ended up all Orthodox, including the grandparents, and founded Ancient Faith Radio.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
genesisone
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 2,481



« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2012, 07:28:36 PM »

Be honest and admit to them that there will be questions you don't yet really know how to answer. Be sure to ask them to pray for you - that this will lead to a closer relationship with Jesus (it helps to use their language) which is what you know they want for you.

(This is advice I wish I had heard some seven years ago - I might have avoided some difficult situations  Sad)
Logged
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: On-n-Off
Jurisdiction: OCA (the only truly Canonical American Orthodox Church)
Posts: 5,555


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2012, 08:22:11 PM »

Most of their arguments and doubts about Orthodoxy are going to be very simple, so I would not be too worried about them. However, the problem is whether or not they will listen to reason or just repeat themselves. I assume they'll say something along the line of 'Why do you worship idols?' or 'You shouldn't pray to Saints, hurr hurr' 'Where is that in the Bible?' etc. As time progresses, they may get more advanced and say things like 'What is this Theosis you believe in? We believe in good ol' faith alone salvation!' or 'The Eucharist is cannibalistic!!11!'. Either way, nothing too hard to answer. Most Baptists and Protestants in general are easy to debate. The Roman Catholics are the only ones that can even throw a well developed theological argument against the Orthodox and even then, ialmisry destroys them 90 percent of the time.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
Protoman2050
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe
Posts: 64


« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2012, 08:37:19 PM »

Well, I've emailed Mom. Let's pray she understands.

Logged
KBN1
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: EO
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 888



« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2012, 08:39:19 PM »

Yes, tell them.  Don't say anything negative about the churches they attend or anything they believe.  And if they attack you, exercise your right to not be engaged.
Logged
Golgotha
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 95



« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2012, 08:45:03 PM »

Why do I feel like a gay man coming out of the closet?

I'm glad I'm not the only one that gets this same feeling with the fam Grin
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 08:45:16 PM by Golgotha » Logged
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,972


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2012, 08:46:19 PM »

Well, I've emailed Mom. Let's pray she understands.



Let us know what happens.

My prayers.
Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
Cognomen
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Phyletism Rules, OK
Posts: 1,968


Ungrateful Biped


« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2012, 10:11:20 PM »

Just as an aside, Protoman2050.

LUFC?

Surely hope not.  It may not be an unforgivable sin, but darn near close.
Logged

North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).
Paisius
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Multi-Jurisdictional
Posts: 816


Reframed


« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2012, 10:41:48 PM »

Just as an aside, Protoman2050.

LUFC?

Surely hope not.  It may not be an unforgivable sin, but darn near close.

Was gonna let that one slide but I've got to know. What does that mean?
Logged

"Is it really true that political self-interest is nobler somehow than economic self-interest?" - Milton Friedman
mabsoota
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 2,468


Kyrie eleison


« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2012, 08:01:50 AM »

i assume it's leeds united football club.
they're not bad.
Logged
ZealousZeal
Gainsaying Helpmeet
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: ✔
Posts: 2,678


Never cease to intercede for us, your children.


« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2012, 12:39:58 PM »

OP, I feel your pain. Before Orthodoxy was a blip on my radar (I truly didn't know anything about it), I had to tell my devoutly charismatic, evangelical Protestant mother that I needed to become Catholic (which, as I said- at the time was the only apostolic church I knew of). Not Orthodox, I know, but some of the same fights: veneration of Mary and the saints/praying to them, the Eucharist, sacramental theology (baptism does more than get you wet!), etc.

It very much felt like "coming out". It was very hard. It did not go over well. I had studied thoroughly, and I had all the answers to her questions. Some of it was helpful, mostly though, it ended up being contentious because my approach, in a word: sucked. I mean, I'm talking screaming fights where we would end up in tears. Totally ugly.

It may not go over well, but from my own mistakes I can tell you this: be patient, be humble, be kind... and above all, be prayerful for your family. Approaching it with a sanctimonious, "you're so wrong and I'm so right and you don't even know what a heretic you are" kind of attitude is only going to make it worse. Loving your family with the love of Christ and with humility will put paid to your desire to convert in their eyes much more than the most well-crafted theological argument ever will. By all means, know your faith. Know answers to questions they will probably ask you, but be mindful of your delivery. Let them see the fruit of Orthodoxy in your life, and they will come around.

I know that my experience is not Orthodox specific, but I hope you can find some value in it. You will be in my prayers!
Logged

"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14
Protoman2050
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe
Posts: 64


« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2012, 12:54:39 PM »

OP, I feel your pain. Before Orthodoxy was a blip on my radar (I truly didn't know anything about it), I had to tell my devoutly charismatic, evangelical Protestant mother that I needed to become Catholic (which, as I said- at the time was the only apostolic church I knew of). Not Orthodox, I know, but some of the same fights: veneration of Mary and the saints/praying to them, the Eucharist, sacramental theology (baptism does more than get you wet!), etc.

It very much felt like "coming out". It was very hard. It did not go over well. I had studied thoroughly, and I had all the answers to her questions. Some of it was helpful, mostly though, it ended up being contentious because my approach, in a word: sucked. I mean, I'm talking screaming fights where we would end up in tears. Totally ugly.

It may not go over well, but from my own mistakes I can tell you this: be patient, be humble, be kind... and above all, be prayerful for your family. Approaching it with a sanctimonious, "you're so wrong and I'm so right and you don't even know what a heretic you are" kind of attitude is only going to make it worse. Loving your family with the love of Christ and with humility will put paid to your desire to convert in their eyes much more than the most well-crafted theological argument ever will. By all means, know your faith. Know answers to questions they will probably ask you, but be mindful of your delivery. Let them see the fruit of Orthodoxy in your life, and they will come around.

I know that my experience is not Orthodox specific, but I hope you can find some value in it. You will be in my prayers!

I simply stated that I believe the Orthodox Church is one that interprets the Scriptures far closer to how the Apostles intended to by its long history of being closely connected to them, and it treats worship reverently, and does not put us under legalism by inventing dogma and commands which do not appear in the Bible. That it has rejuvenated my faith and hope in Christ.
Logged
ZealousZeal
Gainsaying Helpmeet
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: ✔
Posts: 2,678


Never cease to intercede for us, your children.


« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2012, 01:00:05 PM »

OP, I feel your pain. Before Orthodoxy was a blip on my radar (I truly didn't know anything about it), I had to tell my devoutly charismatic, evangelical Protestant mother that I needed to become Catholic (which, as I said- at the time was the only apostolic church I knew of). Not Orthodox, I know, but some of the same fights: veneration of Mary and the saints/praying to them, the Eucharist, sacramental theology (baptism does more than get you wet!), etc.

It very much felt like "coming out". It was very hard. It did not go over well. I had studied thoroughly, and I had all the answers to her questions. Some of it was helpful, mostly though, it ended up being contentious because my approach, in a word: sucked. I mean, I'm talking screaming fights where we would end up in tears. Totally ugly.

It may not go over well, but from my own mistakes I can tell you this: be patient, be humble, be kind... and above all, be prayerful for your family. Approaching it with a sanctimonious, "you're so wrong and I'm so right and you don't even know what a heretic you are" kind of attitude is only going to make it worse. Loving your family with the love of Christ and with humility will put paid to your desire to convert in their eyes much more than the most well-crafted theological argument ever will. By all means, know your faith. Know answers to questions they will probably ask you, but be mindful of your delivery. Let them see the fruit of Orthodoxy in your life, and they will come around.

I know that my experience is not Orthodox specific, but I hope you can find some value in it. You will be in my prayers!

I simply stated that I believe the Orthodox Church is one that interprets the Scriptures far closer to how the Apostles intended to by its long history of being closely connected to them, and it treats worship reverently, and does not put us under legalism by inventing dogma and commands which do not appear in the Bible. That it has rejuvenated my faith and hope in Christ.

I think that is excellent. A great way to start (especially the part I bolded)! I didn't mean to imply that I thought you were being sanctimonious, just to maybe save you some of my own grief by relating my mistakes. If it helps, awesome. If not, disregard.  Wink

You are definitely in my prayers (as is your family), as I am confident that God knows who "Protoman2050" is when I mention it.  Grin

Another thing that brought me comfort in this process was to pray to Mary and ask her intercession for my mom. I figured, she's a mom... she knows a mother's heart... she would be an excellent choice to intercede on my mom's behalf.
Logged

"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,349


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2012, 01:06:29 PM »

Just as an aside, Protoman2050.

LUFC?
BLECH!!!!!!!!!

Glory Glory Man Utd!!!!!!!!


In other news, I would definitely make sure that you dont criticize family members that believe differently. My family are very baptist, but I've made sure I dont  criticize their beliefs, nor lay judgement on them. If they attack Orthodoxy, I also just make sure that they know there is no way they will convince you out of what you're doing.

God Bless you and I look forward on hearing how everything goes.
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: On-n-Off
Jurisdiction: OCA (the only truly Canonical American Orthodox Church)
Posts: 5,555


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2012, 03:26:54 PM »

Also, don't hesitate to ask St. Monica for intercessions; she's a great mom too Smiley
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
Protoman2050
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe
Posts: 64


« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2012, 09:11:37 PM »

My Mom Skyped me about my email telling her of my conversion. She was concerned, but I gave her my reasoning. She's still concerned, but proud that I'm studying Scripture and the Fathers. She was accepting and urged me to pray more for confirmation of God's will (as if His will is a mystery; His will is Mark 12:30)

I thank God for her accepting my conversion, and I thank The Most Holy Theotokos, St Monica, Matt, and you all for praying for me.

Can't wait to meet with Hieromonk David on Sunday morning!
Logged
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2012, 02:07:42 AM »

Glory to God!

Keep us in the loop.
Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
John of the North
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Edmonton and the West
Posts: 3,533


Christ is Risen!

tgild
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2012, 04:48:37 AM »

Just as an aside, Protoman2050.

LUFC?

*launches into "Marching on Together"*

I will pray for the salvation of the Sheffield and Manchester fans in this thread. Cheesy Wink
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 04:55:33 AM by John of the North » Logged

"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,349


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2012, 07:21:32 AM »

Just as an aside, Protoman2050.

LUFC?

*launches into "Marching on Together"*

I will pray for the salvation of the Sheffield and Manchester fans in this thread. Cheesy Wink
HA! Manchester United or death...well not death...but....

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
genesisone
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 2,481



« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2012, 08:56:24 AM »

My Mom Skyped me about my email telling her of my conversion. She was concerned, but I gave her my reasoning. She's still concerned, but proud that I'm studying Scripture and the Fathers. She was accepting and urged me to pray more for confirmation of God's will (as if His will is a mystery; His will is Mark 12:30)

I thank God for her accepting my conversion, and I thank The Most Holy Theotokos, St Monica, Matt, and you all for praying for me.

Can't wait to meet with Hieromonk David on Sunday morning!
This is wonderful news. Her love and respect for you are clear. Now the hard part begins: living the faith!
Logged
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,349


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2012, 09:03:15 AM »

Im really glad that your mom took it so well. praise God Smiley

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
Protoman2050
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe
Posts: 64


« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2012, 09:11:29 AM »

My Mom Skyped me about my email telling her of my conversion. She was concerned, but I gave her my reasoning. She's still concerned, but proud that I'm studying Scripture and the Fathers. She was accepting and urged me to pray more for confirmation of God's will (as if His will is a mystery; His will is Mark 12:30)

I thank God for her accepting my conversion, and I thank The Most Holy Theotokos, St Monica, Matt, and you all for praying for me.

Can't wait to meet with Hieromonk David on Sunday morning!
This is wonderful news. Her love and respect for you are clear. Now the hard part begins: living the faith!

Exactly. I'm a bit worried about the fasting. I'll ask Hieromonk David about this; I'm sure he won't direct me to get over my head due to my newness to the faith, as we aren't Pharisees.

Mom may be a hardline iconoclast finding commands that aren't in Scripture, but she loves me, and that's the only thing that matters.

Also, how does hesychasm differ from RC and Emergent contemplative prayer?
Logged
Thomas
Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,789



« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2012, 09:18:35 AM »

Thanks be to God that your mother was so accepting of your conversion. I know this is a greatrelief for you.
Logged

Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas
Protoman2050
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe
Posts: 64


« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2012, 12:53:58 PM »


This illumines the problem I seek to highlight even further. They do not have a proper, Christian sacramental theology. They don't care about the central act established by Christ in the Gospels over and over again in all he said and did. Of course, without this sense of sacrament also comes a lack of the sense of Church, evidenced by the statement, "We are all the Body of Christ" which is explicitly antithetical to the Orthodox Faith.

To clarify what he meant by "we", he said anyone who holds to the Nicean Creed is a Christian, and thus part of the Church, just interpreting Scripture differently. He never meant every person.
Logged
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2012, 01:56:13 PM »


This illumines the problem I seek to highlight even further. They do not have a proper, Christian sacramental theology. They don't care about the central act established by Christ in the Gospels over and over again in all he said and did. Of course, without this sense of sacrament also comes a lack of the sense of Church, evidenced by the statement, "We are all the Body of Christ" which is explicitly antithetical to the Orthodox Faith.

To clarify what he meant by "we", he said anyone who holds to the Nicean Creed is a Christian, and thus part of the Church, just interpreting Scripture differently. He never meant every person.

True, and I wouldn't deny him the title of Christian, however...that lacks a sense of Church, and ultimately doctrinal authority. That as long as we agree "on the essentials" everything's okay. That is quite unOrthodox.
Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
Protoman2050
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe
Posts: 64


« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2012, 03:48:19 PM »


This illumines the problem I seek to highlight even further. They do not have a proper, Christian sacramental theology. They don't care about the central act established by Christ in the Gospels over and over again in all he said and did. Of course, without this sense of sacrament also comes a lack of the sense of Church, evidenced by the statement, "We are all the Body of Christ" which is explicitly antithetical to the Orthodox Faith.

To clarify what he meant by "we", he said anyone who holds to the Nicean Creed is a Christian, and thus part of the Church, just interpreting Scripture differently. He never meant every person.

True, and I wouldn't deny him the title of Christian, however...that lacks a sense of Church, and ultimately doctrinal authority. That as long as we agree "on the essentials" everything's okay. That is quite unOrthodox.

Exactly. We all believe 1 Pet 3:8 should be practiced...we just disagree over how to do it. RCs believe it should be under 1 infallible man, we believe in doctrine and practice, and the Protestants have pretty much given up on trying due to the spirit of Rome that has been with then since the 1500s.
Logged
Nicene
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 597


« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2012, 07:17:58 AM »

Would they be happy knowing your at least worshipping the true God the trinity? or are they of the fundamentalist bent? Anything roman catholic is evil and all that nonsense?

You should tell them while emphasising that you are not abandoning Christ but getting closer to him.
Logged

Thank you.
Protoman2050
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe
Posts: 64


« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2012, 08:20:47 AM »

Would they be happy knowing your at least worshipping the true God the trinity? or are they of the fundamentalist bent? Anything roman catholic is evil and all that nonsense?

You should tell them while emphasising that you are not abandoning Christ but getting closer to him.

As I said, they accepted this. And no, half my family is Roman Catholic.
Logged
mabsoota
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 2,468


Kyrie eleison


« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2012, 09:50:07 AM »

about hesychasm,
(if anyone could tell me how to pronounce this word, it would be cool, i have only read about it)
i think it is the ascetic practices that lead to theosis (deification) and can certainly start with contemplative prayer, but goes further and includes removing things from life that get in the way of getting close to God.
eg. too much tv, internet forums  Wink gossip, negative or evil thoughts.
it also involves fasting, regular prayer and Bible reading, taking Holy Communion, having a good relationship with a spiritual guide (usually yr confession father) repentance and confession regularly and generally loving God.

it seems to me that it's more in the eastern orthodox church that the term hesychasm is used, in the oriental orthodox church it can be called a 'good spiritual life' or 'saintly life'. in other words, it's something everyone should do, each to whatever extent he or she can.
as i have learnt about the term 'hesychasm' from books, i may not have understood it properly, but there are loads of intelligent people here who can correct any mistakes.
Logged
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2012, 01:50:34 PM »

about hesychasm,
(if anyone could tell me how to pronounce this word, it would be cool, i have only read about it)
i think it is the ascetic practices that lead to theosis (deification) and can certainly start with contemplative prayer, but goes further and includes removing things from life that get in the way of getting close to God.
eg. too much tv, internet forums  Wink gossip, negative or evil thoughts.
it also involves fasting, regular prayer and Bible reading, taking Holy Communion, having a good relationship with a spiritual guide (usually yr confession father) repentance and confession regularly and generally loving God.

it seems to me that it's more in the eastern orthodox church that the term hesychasm is used, in the oriental orthodox church it can be called a 'good spiritual life' or 'saintly life'. in other words, it's something everyone should do, each to whatever extent he or she can.
as i have learnt about the term 'hesychasm' from books, i may not have understood it properly, but there are loads of intelligent people here who can correct any mistakes.

Good post!

Hesychasm (HEZ-ee-khaz-em) simply means stillness. Being present where you are with God and maintaining a relationship with Him through the Church, corporate liturgy, private prayer, almsgiving, fasting, etc. These are things all Christians should be concerning themselves with.

At the same time, hesychasm also refers to the deep practices of the Jesus Prayer through meditation, posturing, etc. The advanced spiritual practices that belong to the angelic life in the monasteries. This kind of deep, inner stillness and solitude is not necessarily for everyone. It's something that is fought very hard, even in the monastery, for many years, even decades, and maybe never fully and properly attained even by the devout monastic.

It all depends on how you're defining "hesychasm." Like I said, there are certain aspects that are important for all Christians...yet there are deeper aspects that belong to the contemplative life.
Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
ZealousZeal
Gainsaying Helpmeet
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: ✔
Posts: 2,678


Never cease to intercede for us, your children.


« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2012, 02:06:52 PM »

Just read your update, OP, and wanted to say that I'm so happy for you! Very glad to hear your family is taking it well. I will continue to pray for you on your journey.  Smiley
Logged

"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.157 seconds with 70 queries.