Author Topic: Issues  (Read 2135 times)

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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Issues
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2012, 04:01:46 PM »
It seems to me that Rome will accept a bit of weasel room if it gets them closer to folks bowing their knee to Rome.

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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Issues
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2012, 06:15:59 PM »
I'm not sure why EOs give so much more theological latitude to the OOs than to the ACOE. While they may be a bit further away from us, they're not really Nestorian/Mopsuestian heretics either.
Take a look at their joint declaration with the Roman Catholics.

Link? Quote? Some kind of rabid-OO polemic of "See, I told you, the Leonians and Nestorians are in bed together all along!" (The last one was just a JOKE!)

"The humanity to which the Blessed Virgin Mary gave birth always was that of the Son of God himself. That is the reason why the Assyrian Church of the East is praying [to] the Virgin Mary as 'the Mother of Christ our God and Saviour." -Joint Declaration:

"The Orthodox position will declare this: The Blessed Mother did not give birth to His Godhead, which is from eternal; but rather she had given birth to His manhood, at the end of time, still it is right to be called 'the Mother of God,' why? Because He who is born of her is at once God and Man. By way of example: The mother of the President of the United States did not give birth to his presidency, she gave birth to the man; and indeed we call her the mother of the President; and again, the Catholicos Patriarch of the East received his office from The Church, and not from his mother who bore him, and we do call her the mother of the Patriarch." -ACotE Catechism

"The Word of God, second Person of the Holy Trinity, became incarnate by the power of the Holy Spirit in assuming from the holy Virgin Mary a body animated by a rational soul, with which he was indissolubly united from the moment of his conception. Therefore our Lord Jesus Christ is true God and true man, perfect in his divinity and perfect in his humanity, consubstantial with the Father and consubstantial with us in all things but sin. His divinity and his humanity are united in one person, without confusion or change, without division or separation. In him has been preserved the difference of the natures of divinity and humanity, with all their properties, faculties and operations. But far from constituting "one and another", the divinity and humanity are united in the person of the same and unique Son of God and Lord Jesus Christ, who is the object of a single adoration. Christ therefore is not an "ordinary man" whom God adopted in order to reside in him and inspire him, as in the righteous ones and the prophets. But the same God the Word, begotten of his Father before all worlds without beginning according to his divinity, was born of a mother without a father in the last times according to his humanity." - From the Common Declaration

Hmmm. That's a very interesting paragraph, that multiple times uses the phrase "one person." I hadn't previous read the RC/ACoE Declaration because, obviously, it has nothing to do with us...perhaps I should...

I've never read it either, but clicked on the Wikipedia link Nicholas provided.  I find it interesting he left this rather large chunk of text hidden behind the link, and only quoted what he did.
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Offline William

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Re: Issues
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2012, 10:12:30 PM »
So go with whichever one is closest to you.

No. Go with whichever one you believe is true due to your experiences and studies.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline William

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Re: Issues
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2012, 10:18:32 PM »
1. Why not join the Oriental Orthodox church or the Assyrian church of the east instead of Eastern Orthodoxy? At first glance, they seem to have the same credentials as you guys.
Questions like this can potentially take tremendous amounts of time and study to resolve. Even then, you rely on your own efforts and abilities, hoping you do not overlook some details and come to the wrong conclusion. Save yourself a lot a time and worry, and judge a tree by its fruits. At the core of Orthodox (i.e Eastern) tradition is the three-fold salvific process of purification, illumination, and glorification. While this teaching is regrettably neglected by many people (including clergy and hierarchs) in the modern Church, it is the only cure of the soul. Look at the great multitudes of Orthodox faithful (from all across the globe) who participate in noetic and unceasing prayer. Furthermore, the truth of (Eastern) Orthodoxy is attested to by the nearly two thousand years of glorified individuals (i.e. those who have seen the uncreated energies of God). These people (some of which are alive today), who have actually seen God, can tell you with the certainty of the apostles, that it is the only Church founded by God and the only one with the potential to heal the soul.

Some of the OOs on this board have posted stories of Coptic ascetics being glorified (I remember one reportedly had to veil his face like Moses). How are we to know which accounts are authentic?
Glorified, or the subject of supposed miracles? I would be interested in reading about these individuals (though I have a feeling that their experiences will, just like cases of Roman Catholic mysticism, depart significantly from authentic Orthodox theosis).

Here's what I was referring to. I got some of the details wrong. It's his fingers that are said to glow, not his face:,10363.msg140736.html#msg140736
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant