Author Topic: Rivalry Between Baptists & Evangelicals?  (Read 1869 times)

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Offline JamesR

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Rivalry Between Baptists & Evangelicals?
« on: April 15, 2012, 10:11:41 PM »
Hoping for some Protestant insight here, but something I've found very interesting and odd is that it appears many Baptists/Southern Baptists do not get along with Evangelicals and are even publishing pamphlets and articles aimed against them. This surprised me because before I had always merged Baptists and Evangelicals together-using the phrases interchangably because they had always seemed so similar, almost identical to me in terms of doctrine, feel and way they function. However, after reading more and speaking to more Baptists, not too many of them have nice things to say about Evangelicals. Is there a reason why? Are there really significant differences between the two or is it just the way they deal with each other? Like, I know that Evangelicals have a bad rep with almost every mainline form of Christianity because they are accused of constantly harassing them, so is this the case with Evangelicals and Baptists? Did one offend the other? And even stranger, most Evangelicals I have talked to usually came from a Baptist or 'non-denominational' background. Would it be fair to say that the whole Evangelical movement is a strange offshoot from certan members of the Baptist and 'non-denominational' Churches? Like, in a way, is Evangelicism a product of the Baptist Church? Like the rebellious little brother that the bigger brother thinks is out of line? I know that this sounds harsh, but, most of this is stuff I have actually heard from Baptists. Some have even gone as far as to say that the Evangelical movement is like cancer because it has no central organization, but just spreads at random and pollutes mainline Churches. So, I was wondering if any Protestants here, more specifically Baptists or Southern Baptists, had anything to say about this.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Online PeterTheAleut

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Re: Rivalry Between Baptists & Evangelicals?
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2012, 12:09:15 AM »
Seriously, why did you start this thread on an Orthodox Christian discussion forum if all you want is dialogue between different breeds of Protestants? It seems that you would be much better served--both in terms of you getting the Protestant responses you want and NOT getting the Orthodox responses you don't want--if you were to start this discussion on a Protestant Christian discussion forum. Or maybe I have this all wrong and you really want to explore this issue as an Orthodox Catechumen looking now at Protestantism from the outside.
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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Rivalry Between Baptists & Evangelicals?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2012, 01:38:51 AM »
Interesting. I always considered the label "evangelical" to fit with a certain ideology that some Protestant peoples and denominations follow, rather than a tangible "movement." Kind of like the antithesis of the "mainline" ideology, and that groups like the Southern Baptist Convention would fit the typical low-church, conservative description for "evangelicals", as well as many Pentecostal groups. Then, on the other side of the spectrum is the non-radical reforming evangelicals that live similar lifestyles as the above but have very a different faith, such as Presbyterians (PCA) or some low-church Anglicans in the alignment. Then you have the "confessional" Protestants who espouse a great sense of Church and sacrament that can sometimes exist with evangelicalism (like in the PCA, some Anglo-Catholic groups or the LCMS).

I never really saw a dichotomy between "evangelical" and "Baptist." Though, I could see some denominations not liking others that describe themselves as also evangelical. For example, I can't imagine Pentecostals and Anglicans (even the Protestant, low-church ones) getting along too awfully well.
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Offline Cavaradossi

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Re: Rivalry Between Baptists & Evangelicals?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2012, 01:50:10 AM »
Seriously, why did you start this thread on an Orthodox Christian discussion forum if all you want is dialogue between different breeds of Protestants? It seems that you would be much better served--both in terms of you getting the Protestant responses you want and NOT getting the Orthodox responses you don't want--if you were to start this discussion on a Protestant Christian discussion forum. Or maybe I have this all wrong and you really want to explore this issue as an Orthodox Catechumen looking now at Protestantism from the outside.

This season really isn't the time to berate others. Perhaps you could have found a more agreeable way to write that.
Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.

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Re: Rivalry Between Baptists & Evangelicals?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2012, 01:53:46 AM »
Seriously, why did you start this thread on an Orthodox Christian discussion forum if all you want is dialogue between different breeds of Protestants? It seems that you would be much better served--both in terms of you getting the Protestant responses you want and NOT getting the Orthodox responses you don't want--if you were to start this discussion on a Protestant Christian discussion forum. Or maybe I have this all wrong and you really want to explore this issue as an Orthodox Catechumen looking now at Protestantism from the outside.

This season really isn't the time to berate others. Perhaps you could have found a more agreeable way to write that.
Is this the season for you to berate me for "berating" someone else?  ;)

FTR, I'm not berating anyone, and just because you find my words disagreeable doesn't mean James will. Let's wait and see how he responds.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 01:59:29 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Rivalry Between Baptists & Evangelicals?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2012, 04:08:35 AM »
I was not offended, however, one could say that you sounded rude. Either way, my question was mostly directed toward Protestants, but I also wanted Orthodox insight as well, which may be able to give a more outside view of things.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline Doubting Thomas

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Re: Rivalry Between Baptists & Evangelicals?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2012, 10:58:25 AM »
I'm a former Southern Baptist, but my parents are still Baptist and I attend a weekly bible study with some Baptist guys.  I was unaware of any rivarly between Baptists and Evangelicals, and have always considered the former to be a subset of the latter.  Do you have any specific links to such a conflict?
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Rivalry Between Baptists & Evangelicals?
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2012, 11:08:59 AM »
In alot of circles, "Baptist" and "Evangelical" are interchangable.

I would say that where they are different, say with David Young, who is Baptist, but has much more in common with the Orthodox, Evangelicals despise them.

I know when I was Baptist I really could not stand Baptists who did not espouse Evangelicalism and we would go so far to doubt their Christianity.

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Offline akimori makoto

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Re: Rivalry Between Baptists & Evangelicals?
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2012, 05:35:13 PM »
It is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church of Christ which can properly lay claim to the title of "Evangelical".
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Offline FormerReformer

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Re: Rivalry Between Baptists & Evangelicals?
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2012, 06:01:50 PM »
The Evangelical is a sort of subset of Protestantism in general and crosses multiple denominational lines- its main hallmarks are a "pray this little prayer on the card here and you're saved" soteriology, a particularly Low Church style of worship, and sola Scriptura authority. On the plus side Evangelicals are less likely to get involved in the more heavy theological divide between the various denominations- the down side is that there really isn't all that much theology, good or bad, to be found.

Southern and Independent Baptists tend to cross over very much with Evangelicalism, but other (American) Baptists tend to be much more like the "mainline" groups with a particular trend toward liberal theology. There are also some extremely conservative Baptist denominations that frown on Evangelicals- because they tend to view salvation as being more involved than "say this little prayer and that's it!" and often consider their own Baptist denomination to be closer to a "one true church" deal than the more open-ended cross/non denominational tendencies of the Evangelical movement.

Even on the Southern Baptist end of the spectrum there is always going to be tension between the Old South "Just As I Am" piano-is-the-only-instrument-allowed traditional Southern Baptists and the "let's do whatever we can to pack the pews with kids, I like that Linkin Park song" rock-bands-are-ok anything-goes brand of Evangelical Southern Baptists (and the many non-denominational groups who are Southern Baptist in everything but name). Too, there is a lot of distrust toward other Evangelicals of a Pentecostal/Charismatic persuasion- all good Baptists know that miracles ended after St John died.
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Rivalry Between Baptists & Evangelicals?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2012, 11:08:18 AM »
The Evangelical is a sort of subset of Protestantism in general and crosses multiple denominational lines- its main hallmarks are a "pray this little prayer on the card here and you're saved" soteriology, a particularly Low Church style of worship, and sola Scriptura authority. On the plus side Evangelicals are less likely to get involved in the more heavy theological divide between the various denominations- the down side is that there really isn't all that much theology, good or bad, to be found.

Southern and Independent Baptists tend to cross over very much with Evangelicalism, but other (American) Baptists tend to be much more like the "mainline" groups with a particular trend toward liberal theology. There are also some extremely conservative Baptist denominations that frown on Evangelicals- because they tend to view salvation as being more involved than "say this little prayer and that's it!" and often consider their own Baptist denomination to be closer to a "one true church" deal than the more open-ended cross/non denominational tendencies of the Evangelical movement.

Even on the Southern Baptist end of the spectrum there is always going to be tension between the Old South "Just As I Am" piano-is-the-only-instrument-allowed traditional Southern Baptists and the "let's do whatever we can to pack the pews with kids, I like that Linkin Park song" rock-bands-are-ok anything-goes brand of Evangelical Southern Baptists (and the many non-denominational groups who are Southern Baptist in everything but name). Too, there is a lot of distrust toward other Evangelicals of a Pentecostal/Charismatic persuasion- all good Baptists know that miracles ended after St John died.
I could not have possibly said this any better. This is 100% correct in every way.

PP
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Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Rivalry Between Baptists & Evangelicals?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2012, 11:57:22 AM »
I was not offended, however, one could say that you sounded rude. Either way, my question was mostly directed toward Protestants, but I also wanted Orthodox insight as well, which may be able to give a more outside view of things.

plenty of us were baptists and former evangelicals to start with anyways.