Author Topic: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?  (Read 871 times)

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Offline Jetavan

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Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« on: April 29, 2012, 09:08:47 PM »
Quote
ROME -- When Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was elected to the papacy in April 2005, the popular forecast called for stormy weather ahead. This was, after all, the Vatican enforcer who had been leading a “smack-down on heresy since 1981”, in the words of T-shirts and coffee mugs marketed by a Ratzinger fan club. His rise elicited dread in some quarters and joy in others, but virtually everyone agreed big things were in the works.

During most of the past seven years, however, that anticipated upheaval has seemed a lot like the dog that didn’t bark. Back in February 2006, the late Fr. Richard John Neuhaus famously voiced “palpable unease” among those most elated by Ratzinger’s election, and that disappointment endured in a swath of Catholic opinion which had begun to despair that the pope would ever impose order.

Of late, however, many observers believe the “real Ratzinger” has finally come out to play.
....
What all this suggests is that if there’s indeed a purge unfolding, it will likely be sporadic and uneven, driven more by some Vatican departments, and by some local bishops or religious orders, than others.
....
Yet with all those cautions on the record, the bottom line on April 2012 remains: The “German Shepherd”, it would seem, still has some bite.
It seems that the Popes give more leeway to Eastern Catholics, than to Latin Catholics.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 09:10:43 PM by Jetavan »
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2012, 09:10:44 PM »
i think once he finally got in power he realized that it was more important not to "rock the boat".

Offline Peter J

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Re: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2012, 11:02:32 AM »
It seems that the Popes give more leeway to Eastern Catholics, than to Latin Catholics.

Yes and no. The Pope is also the Patriarch of the Latin Church, so that means he has a lot of say in that particular Church. The thing is, not everyone agrees that e.g. North American should be part of the Latin Church. Ditto for South America, Australia, and Africa.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2012, 11:28:18 AM »
It seems that the Popes give more leeway to Eastern Catholics, than to Latin Catholics.

Yes and no. The Pope is also the Patriarch of the Latin Church, so that means he has a lot of say in that particular Church. The thing is, not everyone agrees that e.g. North American should be part of the Latin Church. Ditto for South America, Australia, and Africa.

Not sure what you mean by that.  Why wouldn't they be part of the "Latin Church"?  Are there those who suggest that these places should have their own patriarchates?
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2012, 11:34:19 AM »
Didn't the Pope "retire" the title 'Patriarch of the West' and wasn't that met with controversy in the Orthodox world back in 2006? http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0601225.htm

Offline Peter J

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Re: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2012, 11:49:52 AM »
Why wouldn't they be part of the "Latin Church"? 

That's a good question, but before attempting a refutation, I'd need to know what argument(s) I'm refuting.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2012, 11:52:06 AM »
Why wouldn't they be part of the "Latin Church"? 

That's a good question, but before attempting a refutation, I'd need to know what argument(s) I'm refuting.

I'm not arguing anything.  I'm asking because I don't know and I wasn't sure what you meant in your original post here.
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Re: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2012, 12:03:02 PM »
The Pope can't stop being what he is, and the Patriarch of the West is what he is. :) I think he removed it from the official list, because in our current situation, it doesn't have as much meaning as it has had in other historical circumstances.
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2012, 12:10:19 PM »
The Pope can't stop being what he is, and the Patriarch of the West is what he is. :) I think he removed it from the official list, because in our current situation, it doesn't have as much meaning as it has had in other historical circumstances.

As I understand it, the removal of that title from the "yearbook" wasn't overly significant in and of itself, since it has only been in the yearbook in recent centuries. However, the explanation for that removal made it sound like that title is been downplayed/walked-away-from in general.
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Re: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2012, 12:19:11 PM »
The Pope can't stop being what he is, and the Patriarch of the West is what he is. :) I think he removed it from the official list, because in our current situation, it doesn't have as much meaning as it has had in other historical circumstances.

As I understand it, the removal of that title from the "yearbook" wasn't overly significant in and of itself, since it has only been in the yearbook in recent centuries. However, the explanation for that removal made it sound like that title is been downplayed/walked-away-from in general.
Agreed.
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2012, 01:45:22 PM »
Does he still go by the title "Patriarch of Rome"?

Offline sheenj

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Re: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2012, 02:00:08 PM »
Does he still go by the title "Patriarch of Rome"?
I think it's the Bishop of Rome but yeah, that's in his title.

Offline J Michael

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Re: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2012, 02:01:31 PM »
Does he still go by the title "Patriarch of Rome"?

I don't think so.  Bishop of Rome, yes, however.
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Offline biro

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Re: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2012, 02:14:56 PM »
I read some of his stuff from back when he was a cardinal. He doesn't seem to have changed much.

Offline Peter J

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Re: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2012, 02:28:18 PM »
Does he still go by the title "Patriarch of Rome"?

If you mean, is it in the yearbook (Annuario Pontificio), then I'm fairly certain the answer is no.
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2012, 02:31:00 PM »
Does he still go by the title "Patriarch of Rome"?

I don't think so.  Bishop of Rome, yes, however.

Oh ok. A Patriarch is nothing more than just a fancy bishop, anways.

Offline biro

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Re: Has the 'real Ratzinger' come out to play?
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2012, 02:36:50 PM »
Does he still go by the title "Patriarch of Rome"?

I don't think so.  Bishop of Rome, yes, however.

Oh ok. A Patriarch is nothing more than just a fancy bishop, anways.

Shh, don't tell, but in the RCC, a Pope is essentially the highest archbishop. Cardinals are that subset of archbishops who can elect and advise a Pope. But they don't have more territory.