Topic: Cannaibs is extremely good for you in moderation

[PeterTheAleut]

Cancer is literally a cure for any disease at all.

Cancer a cure for disease? I think cancer IS a disease.

[PeterTheAleut]

This may be an issue of religious liberty, which as with all religious liberties must be exercised with prayer, knowledge, and caution. There are some potential positive medicinal and psychological effects of Cannabis, but there are also potential negative effects. To ingest Cannabis as a non-psychotropric agent is probably good for most people (boil it as a tea in water, without milk or oil, because the psychotropic effects of the THC are only activated when Marijuana is smoked or mixed with fat or oil.) For many people, the psychotropic effects of marijuana produce a calm, meditative state that is very conducive to prayer. But for others, the psychotropic effects of marijuana produce paranoia, confusion, disorentation, and a disruption of the consciousness that is antithetical to prayer and meditation. So, the "one size fits all" mentality is very dangerous.

The Orthodox view of creation is that created matter is good, and we should honor it as such. However, we must also acknowledge the consequences of the fall and realize that all of creation has been affected- not completely corrupted, but affected - by the fall. Therefore, we should not condemn any created thing as evil, but neither should we assume that everything "natural" is beneficial or safe. For example, rattlesnakes are not evil; they are a vital part of the ecosystem. But it would be foolish to assume that because they are created by God that we should not be fearful and cautious in approaching them.

OK, that's my brief two cents on the matter for now.


Selam

Thank you, Gebre, for this very balanced view of the issue.

[acts420]

Dear xariskai, the point of my original post was that cannabis is good for human beings in moderation.  "For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected..." (1 Timothy 4).  That is the point behind my citation of Genesis 1:29.  Everything God made has a good and beneficial use.  Cannabis is no exception.

If you don't want to say something consumed as medicine is "food," then don't.  I call it food.  I don't care what you call it.  I don't care if you believe Genesis 1:29 literally or if you don't.  I believe it, but I'm not going to argue with you about "food" endlessly.  That has virtually nothing to do with the point of this thread.

The point is this:  Cannabis is good for human beings in moderation.  That has been shown to me through my experience with the plant, and many others have had similar experiences.  Many doctors also agree.  Everything God created is good in some form or fashion, and nothing is to be rejected.  The laws of the U.S. Federal government that prohibit all use, even moderate and medical use of cannabis, are anti-Christian.

[Aindriú]

Can we smoke poison ivy?

[acts420]

Thank you, PeterTheAleut, just to be specific, the things I would like to see backed up with scientific, peer-reviewed sources are:

Actually, my desire is to see that people don't have to die like my Father did, God rest his soul.  He got skin cancer; the same cancer I later saw people in the educational documentary "Run From the Cure" healed themselves of using cannabis oil extract.  My Father's doctors' treatments didn't work for him, much like my doctors' treatments for my plantar warts didn't work for me.  The cancer spread.   Eventually it had to be treated aggressively.  The doctor's treatments still didn't work, but they did make him very nauseous all the time.  He had trouble eating.  Cancer and the inability to eat are a very bad combo.  From what I've read and the patients I've spoken too, cannabis would have helped him greatly in his fight.

However, cannabis was made illegal in his State and Country about 70 years before he got cancer.  My hope is that someday children will see their fathers healed of this disease instead of dying a slow, dreadful, agonizing, and painful death over months and years from it.    

That cannabis can heal cancer.

As you've just shown, all I said was that "I saw people in the educational documentary Run From the Cure healed themselves using cannabis oil extract."  I told you what I saw in a documentary, and I said that after watching it I wished my late Father, God rest his soul, had cannabis as an option for both his skin cancer and the nausea that chemotherapy caused.  Just because I told you what I saw in a documentary and how it related to my Father, that doesn't make me responsible for answering all your curiosities about cannabis and science.

Nonetheless, I've been more than helpful in these regards even though I owe you nothing.  I've told you where you can perhaps find such articles.  I also already provided you with a peer-reviewed article about cannabis compounds being used against cancer cells in this thread.  I didn't have to do either of those things.  I'm under no obligation to do research for you simply because I told you what I saw in a documentary.  

I've been more than helpful, and you've been less than thankful.  

Perhaps that's because you didn't have painful warts on your feet for years that doctors couldn't cure but which cannabis cured in two weeks.  Or perhaps that is because you don't have MS, and therefore you haven't seen first hand that eating or smoking cannabis drastically helps relieve the symptoms of that terrible disease.  It helps many with Parkinson's also.  Cannabis helps and even heals more diseases than we can count, from simple warts to the most devastating diseases known to man, and it does so very cheaply.  That is precisely why big pharma lobbied the government to lie about it and make it illegal 80 years ago.  

It was not fun at all to rub cannabis oil on my feet to heal the painful plantar warts.  It didn't get me high at all.  Also, eating it in the raw form does not get you high but has incredible medical benefits.  Eating it cooked (or smoking it) does get you high... but that's not all it does.  It helps with nausea and appetite stimulation when you're sick, and it relieves the symptoms of many diseases also.

Wake up.

1. That cannabis alleviates symptoms of multiple sclerosis
2. That cannabis alleviates Parkinson's disease.
3. That cannabis can heal warts.

I said cannabis can heal warts because it healed mine.  That's all.   I tried cannabis oil extract on my plantar warts because I read a peer-reviewed article about cannabis compounds being used to fight cancer cells.  I've already provided you with one such article, and I've told you where you can do further research if you want.  I knew that HPV (warts) is closely related to cancer, I had read the article, and so I tried it on my warts.  It cured them.  That's all I'm saying.  I'm not saying cannabis is a cure all for all warts in existence, and I've never made any such claim.  I've said it healed *my* warts.  

As far as the other diseases, I already provided links to the videos I had seen where symptoms of those diseases are alleviated after patients consume cannabis.  Those videos are what I was referring to when I said cannabis can be used against the symptoms of those diseases.   I provided the links to the videos, first-hand accounts, so you can witness them yourself.  I also provided another peer-reviewed journal article about how cannabis should be made available for medical patients for a variety of diseases.   All of that is a perfectly reasonable starting point for the further research you are so vocally interested in.  If you want to see more research done, then do it.

Or is it my claim that I read a bunch of articles in pub med between two and four years ago that supported the conclusion that cannabis not only treats symptoms of cancer but that its cannabinoids have also actually been used to kill cancer cells?  If that's the "incredible" claim, then simply do a google search or pub med and you can read about it yourself.  It's true.

That cannabis actually kills cancer cells.

I also already provided you with a peer-reviewed, scientific article about cannabis compounds being used effectively against cancer cells in this thread.

Acts420 has been quite insistant that research backing up these claims exists, when questioned, so I don't think this is unreasonable. Of course, I will be content if he simply admits that no evidence for the above claims he's made exists beyond personal anecdote, the personal opinion of a former heart surgeon, the Bible or various blogs and popular news sites/forums etc. All I want to do is see him take the reasonable step of giving us the scientific sources he says exist or admit that they don't, for the above claims.

I have simply related my healing experiences with medical cannabis and the healing experiences of others.  I've shown you where to view their testimony on video and witness their symptom relief and healing experiences.  I have provided you with two peer-reviewed journal articles regarding cannabis' use against disease.  I have provided a link to a page with more.  I have given my own testimony in dealing with my own disease.  I have provided a documentary you can watch where others testify about their diseases.  I have also provided you with numerous licensed medical doctors' testimony by way of two video links.  

I have fed you more than enough information about cannabis' medical uses, and you have ignored most if it even while asking the moderators to make me feed you more.  "A sluggard buries his hand in the dish; he will not even bring it back to his mouth." (Proverbs 19:24)  If you want to see more research about cannabis, then do your own research.  You have all the resources you need to feed yourself now.

[acts420]

Can we smoke poison ivy?

Count me out.

[PeterTheAleut]

Thank you, PeterTheAleut, just to be specific, the things I would like to see backed up with scientific, peer-reviewed sources are:

Actually, my desire is to see that people don't have to die like my Father did, God rest his soul.  He got skin cancer; the same cancer I later saw people in the educational documentary "Run From the Cure" healed themselves of using cannabis oil extract.  My Father's doctors' treatments didn't work for him, much like my doctors' treatments for my plantar warts didn't work for me.  The cancer spread.   Eventually it had to be treated aggressively.  The doctor's treatments still didn't work, but they did make him very nauseous all the time.  He had trouble eating.  Cancer and the inability to eat are a very bad combo.  From what I've read and the patients I've spoken too, cannabis would have helped him greatly in his fight.

However, cannabis was made illegal in his State and Country about 70 years before he got cancer.  My hope is that someday children will see their fathers healed of this disease instead of dying a slow, dreadful, agonizing, and painful death over months and years from it.    

That cannabis can heal cancer.

As you've just shown, all I said was that "I saw people in the educational documentary Run From the Cure healed themselves using cannabis oil extract."  I told you what I saw in a documentary, and I said that after watching it I wished my late Father, God rest his soul, had cannabis as an option for both his skin cancer and the nausea that chemotherapy caused.  Just because I told you what I saw in a documentary and how it related to my Father, that doesn't make me responsible for answering all your curiosities about cannabis and science.

Nonetheless, I've been more than helpful in these regards even though I owe you nothing.  I've told you where you can perhaps find such articles.  I also already provided you with a peer-reviewed article about cannabis compounds being used against cancer cells in this thread.  I didn't have to do either of those things.  I'm under no obligation to do research for you simply because I told you what I saw in a documentary.  

I've been more than helpful, and you've been less than thankful.  

Perhaps that's because you didn't have painful warts on your feet for years that doctors couldn't cure but which cannabis cured in two weeks.  Or perhaps that is because you don't have MS, and therefore you haven't seen first hand that eating or smoking cannabis drastically helps relieve the symptoms of that terrible disease.  It helps many with Parkinson's also.  Cannabis helps and even heals more diseases than we can count, from simple warts to the most devastating diseases known to man, and it does so very cheaply.  That is precisely why big pharma lobbied the government to lie about it and make it illegal 80 years ago.  

It was not fun at all to rub cannabis oil on my feet to heal the painful plantar warts.  It didn't get me high at all.  Also, eating it in the raw form does not get you high but has incredible medical benefits.  Eating it cooked (or smoking it) does get you high... but that's not all it does.  It helps with nausea and appetite stimulation when you're sick, and it relieves the symptoms of many diseases also.

Wake up.

1. That cannabis alleviates symptoms of multiple sclerosis
2. That cannabis alleviates Parkinson's disease.
3. That cannabis can heal warts.

I said cannabis can heal warts because it healed mine.  That's all.   I tried cannabis oil extract on my plantar warts because I read a peer-reviewed article about cannabis compounds being used to fight cancer cells.  I've already provided you with one such article, and I've told you where you can do further research if you want.  I knew that HPV (warts) is closely related to cancer, I had read the article, and so I tried it on my warts.  It cured them.  That's all I'm saying.  I'm not saying cannabis is a cure all for all warts in existence, and I've never made any such claim.  I've said it healed *my* warts.  

As far as the other diseases, I already provided links to the videos I had seen where symptoms of those diseases are alleviated after patients consume cannabis.  Those videos are what I was referring to when I said cannabis can be used against the symptoms of those diseases.   I provided the links to the videos, first-hand accounts, so you can witness them yourself.  I also provided another peer-reviewed journal article about how cannabis should be made available for medical patients for a variety of diseases.   All of that is a perfectly reasonable starting point for the further research you are so vocally interested in.  If you want to see more research done, then do it.

Or is it my claim that I read a bunch of articles in pub med between two and four years ago that supported the conclusion that cannabis not only treats symptoms of cancer but that its cannabinoids have also actually been used to kill cancer cells?  If that's the "incredible" claim, then simply do a google search or pub med and you can read about it yourself.  It's true.

That cannabis actually kills cancer cells.

I also already provided you with a peer-reviewed, scientific article about cannabis compounds being used effectively against cancer cells in this thread.

Acts420 has been quite insistant that research backing up these claims exists, when questioned, so I don't think this is unreasonable. Of course, I will be content if he simply admits that no evidence for the above claims he's made exists beyond personal anecdote, the personal opinion of a former heart surgeon, the Bible or various blogs and popular news sites/forums etc. All I want to do is see him take the reasonable step of giving us the scientific sources he says exist or admit that they don't, for the above claims.

I have simply related my healing experiences with medical cannabis and the healing experiences of others.  I've shown you where to view their testimony on video and witness their symptom relief and healing experiences.  I have provided you with two peer-reviewed journal articles regarding cannabis' use against disease.  I have provided a link to a page with more.  I have given my own testimony in dealing with my own disease.  I have provided a documentary you can watch where others testify about their diseases.  I have also provided you with numerous licensed medical doctors' testimony by way of two video links.  

I have fed you more than enough information about cannabis' medical uses, and you have ignored most if it even while asking the moderators to make me feed you more.  "A sluggard buries his hand in the dish; he will not even bring it back to his mouth." (Proverbs 19:24)  If you want to see more research about cannabis, then do your own research.  You have all the resources you need to feed yourself now.

laconicstudent's request for sources now has my formal moderatorial backing. Therefore, to argue with him is to argue with me. Rather than continue your dispute with us, don't you think it better to assess our request and decide to either fulfill it within the 48 hours you now have left to you or willingly accept the formal discipline you will receive for your continued refusal to act?

I post this publicly to show my continued support of laconicstudent's inquiry into your sources. If you wish to dispute my directive or this reminder, please do so only via private message.

[biro]

Can we smoke poison ivy?

Running up against it is bad enough. Trust me, I found that out on a 9th grade field trip. 

[Aindriú]

Can we smoke poison ivy?

Running up against it is bad enough. Trust me, I found that out on a 9th grade field trip. 

But everything is good. If everything is good, then how can this be bad?

[biro]

Can we smoke poison ivy?

Running up against it is bad enough. Trust me, I found that out on a 9th grade field trip. 

But everything is good. If everything is good, then how can this be bad?

Uh, 'cause it itches? 

[Asteriktos]

But what if the itching wasn't from the poison ivy (falsely so called)? What if it was a reaction of your body, revolting not against the plant but against your aversion to the plant? What if it was a psychsomatic response to the false anxiety you were cultivating, based on the myth that there are bad plants out there? More research in this area is called for...

[biro]

But what if the itching wasn't from the poison ivy (falsely so called)? What if it was a reaction of your body, revolting not against the plant but against your aversion to the plant? What if it was a psychsomatic response to the false anxiety you were cultivating, based on the myth that there are bad plants out there? More research in this area is called for...

Not with me. Someone else will have to volunteer for the project.

[Aindriú]

Can we smoke poison ivy?

Running up against it is bad enough. Trust me, I found that out on a 9th grade field trip. 

But everything is good. If everything is good, then how can this be bad?

Uh, 'cause it itches? 

But it's good!

[biro]

Itching is not good. Poison ivy may have been made for bugs to eat. I hope it wasn't made strictly to torture kids in biology class. 

[Aindriú]

LOL, Biro...

[Shlomlokh]

Can we smoke poison ivy?

Running up against it is bad enough. Trust me, I found that out on a 9th grade field trip. 

But everything is good. If everything is good, then how can this be bad?

Uh, 'cause it itches? 

But it's good!

Not as good as cannaibs. Mmmmmmm. Cannaibs.

In Christ,
Andrew

[acts420]

Dear laconicstudent,

Anyone reading my post can plainly see what I claimed and how I've already backed up my claims.

I claimed that Dr. David Allen (heart surgeon) says, "Eat a bud a day, it will keep the strokes away."  I backed that up the only way possible: I posted the video of the Dr. saying it.  My claim there was about another person's testimony, and I backed my claim up the only way possible:  by showing his testimony.  See page 1, line one of this thread where I posted the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x9lK1meqog

I claimed, "I was healed of a disease on my foot that doctors could not cure for years after I applied cannabis oil to my foot for a couple weeks."  To back it up, I testified personally about my experience in using cannabis oil to heal my foot.  That is all I can do.  No more "poof" of my personal experience is possible unless you are going to require me to publicly post my former doctors' names and phone numbers in order to allow me to continue speaking freely here.

I claimed that "if you look around, you'll find people that even claim it has healed some forms of cancer."  I backed that up the only way possible: I cited the documentary where I heard the patients themselves testify about it curing their cancers (Run From the Cure, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0psJhQHk_GI ).  Again, my claim was about others' testimony.  And so I pointed you to their testimony.  That is all I can do.

I backed up every claim I made.  Nonetheless, when requested, I additionally cited a peer-reviewed, scientific study about cannabis being used against cancer.  I did this on page 3 of the thread.  The study from Complutense University and Autonoma University used cannabinoids from cannabis to kill glioma cells, destroying some of the cancers in the test animals.  It was published in Volume 119, Issue 5 (May 1, 2009) J Clin Invest. 2009;119(5):1359–1372. doi:10.1172/JCI37948.  Copyright © 2009, American Society for Clinical Investigation.

Need more?  Then see the research done at Harvard University by Anju Preet, Ramesh Ganju and Jerome Groopman in 2007.  It was presented at the 98th American Association of Cancer Research (AACR) Annual Meeting.  They discovered that THC, one of the most active ingredients in medical marijuana, cuts tumor growth in common lung cancer in half and significantly reduces the ability of the cancer to spread.  Cannabis' effectiveness against cancer is so well known in the medical field that they say in the abstract of the research paper, "Cannabis sativa, possess anti-tumor properties against various types of cancers."  Then they report the findings from their specific research which focused on lung cancer specifically.  "A significant reduction (~50%) in tumor weight and volume were observed in THC treated animals compared to the vehicle treated animals."  See the abstract at:  http://www.aacrmeetingabstracts.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/2007/1_Annual_Meeting/4749?maxtoshow=&hits=80&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=cannabinoid&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=1760&resourcetype=HWCIT

I also claimed cannabis can "drastically help relieve the symptoms of that terrible disease [MS]."  I then posted a video of a man smoking it, experiencing visible relief from MS, and then testifying about its effectiveness.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEOoa6Q4Bds  I also posted more videos of several other men with the disease describing similar help from cannabis (page 2 of this thread).  Then, after being asked, I also posted a medical, peer-reviewed journal article that mentions medical relief from cannabis in regards to MS and many other diseases. "Analysis of the medical use of marijuana and its societal implications"; Taylor HG; Journal of the American Pharmaceutical Association (Washington,D.C.). 1998 Mar-Apr;38(2):220-7.  

If you need yet another "scientific article" to allow me to speak freely here, then see Growing's 1998, peer-reviewed journal article, "Therapeutic use of cannabis: clarifying the debate. Drug and Alcohol Review, 17: 445-452."  There she cites studies showing that "cannabinoids have been shown in animal models to measurably lessen MS symptoms and may also halt the progression of the disease."  Or see also:  Baker D et al (2000). Cannabinoids control spasticity and tremor in a multiple sclerosis model.  Nature, 404: 84-87.  That study also notes the relief cannabis affords MS patients.

Or see Zajicek J et al (2003). Cannabinoids for treatment of spasticity and other symptoms related to multiple sclerosis (CAMS study): multicentre randomised placebo-controlled trial. Lancet, Nov 8;362(9395): 1517-26.  There it is claimed that "current data supporting the benefit of cannabinoid treatment of spasticity in MS is now as strong as for any available pharmaceutical agent."

Anyone who is saying I have claimed that cannabis cures all disease or all cancers is lying about me.  That "anyone" would be you. You said of me, "Wow, look at all those grandiose claims of cannabis being the universal panacea without a single scientific source."  I never made that claim. So stop spreading lies, and stop convincing the moderators to take action against me because of your lies.  Why are you trying so hard to silence me, Liar?

I have backed up my claims constantly here.  But regardless of all the information I provide, the obnoxious demand for impossible "proof" of false claims (and threat of discipline against me if I don't fulfill it) remains.  I have cited peer-reviewed study after peer-reviewed study, and the your deceitful "request" (which you manged to turn into a demand under threat of discipline by the moderators) seems now to be that I prove cannabis cures cancer with a scientific journal article.  I never claimed that it cures all cancer.   It is impossible for me to fulfill this request; there is no such thing as a peer-reviewed scientific article showing that cannabis can cure all cancer.  The most that can be shown is that cannabis can be used to kill cancer cells and inhibit tumor growth.  That is the most that any medicine known to man can do.  There is no such thing as a total, never-fail cure for cancer.  I have never claimed there is.  

I have done everything feasible to back up the claims I actually made.  I understand that my views about cannabis (and its relationship to kanehbosm and the holy anointing oil) make me unpopular with many in this forum.  I understand that very possibly offends some of your deeply held beliefs as an orthodox christian.  However, my intent is not to offend but rather to speak what I believe to be true in a conversation with others who love the Truth.  Disagreeing with me theologically is not a reason to put words in my mouth and then force me (by using Peter) to either "back them up" or face formal discipline.

All I'm asking the both of you is that you let me speak freely about my experiences here, for Christ's sake.  It is a plant that God made.  It is good medicine, and all I'm doing is speaking about it.  

You should be ashamed of yourself.

In Christ,
Jason (acts420)

1. To call someone a liar is a personal attack that we do not permit on this forum. You were within your rights to accuse laconicstudent of lying, and if you had gone no further than that, you would have not run afoul of any rules. However, when you took that next step and called him a liar, you crossed the line into conduct forbidden on this forum.
2. laconicstudent did not use me to force you to "put up or shut up". I agreed with him and chose to back him up after conducting a careful review of his complaint and of your conduct on this thread and after consulting with my fellow moderators over the course of several days. The decision to back him up was mine. For you to accuse laconicstudent of using me is an allegation that the moderators can be used, which is a defamation of the character of those who serve on the moderator team.
3. You're continuing to display the same hostility that drove me to lock this thread before, the same hostility that prompted my general warning to all several posts ago.

Therefore, you are receiving this warning that you need to stop this now. Continue spewing this venom and you will be placed on post moderation, a status where every one of your posts will need to be reviewed by a moderator before it can appear on the forum. Considering the magnitude of your antagonism at the moment, I think a long warning of 40 days should be sufficient to drive home the point that this behavior has to stop.

If you wish to dispute this warning as unfair, please take up your argument with me via private message. (This warning has nothing to do with my request for outside corroboration of your claims regarding the medicinal benefits of cannabis use, which, ironically, I am rethinking after reading the references you cited in this post.)

- PeterTheAleut

[acts420]

This may be an issue of religious liberty, which as with all religious liberties must be exercised with prayer, knowledge, and caution. There are some potential positive medicinal and psychological effects of Cannabis, but there are also potential negative effects. To ingest Cannabis as a non-psychotropric agent is probably good for most people (boil it as a tea in water, without milk or oil, because the psychotropic effects of the THC are only activated when Marijuana is smoked or mixed with fat or oil.) For many people, the psychotropic effects of marijuana produce a calm, meditative state that is very conducive to prayer. But for others, the psychotropic effects of marijuana produce paranoia, confusion, disorentation, and a disruption of the consciousness that is antithetical to prayer and meditation. So, the "one size fits all" mentality is very dangerous.

The Orthodox view of creation is that created matter is good, and we should honor it as such. However, we must also acknowledge the consequences of the fall and realize that all of creation has been affected- not completely corrupted, but affected - by the fall. Therefore, we should not condemn any created thing as evil, but neither should we assume that everything "natural" is beneficial or safe. For example, rattlesnakes are not evil; they are a vital part of the ecosystem. But it would be foolish to assume that because they are created by God that we should not be fearful and cautious in approaching them.

OK, that's my brief two cents on the matter for now.


Selam

Thank you for the very wise comment, and for your truthful and honest behavior in this thread.  It is unfortunately rare to see people with integrity speaking and acting on this website.  But then again, it has been this way in the people of God since Moses.  Gems like you are rare, but they are here.  Thanks for shining Christ's light brilliantly.  Wolves may be abundant among the sheep.  What prophet wasn't persecuted?  But let God be true and every man a liar.

If more people like you believed this could be a matter of religious freedom, then perhaps I could stand a chance at winning the civil lawsuit I'm eventually going to bring against the Federal government.  Rastafarians can legally use cannabis according to the Federal government.  They won this right on Constitutional grounds, specifically freedom of religion.  They proved their *sincere* religious beliefs required them to use cannabis.  If Rastafarians can legally use cannabis, those who have descended from the oriental orthodox in some form, even if they are not canonical, then I should be able to use cannabis too.  But I'm not.  I have to violate the law to practice my religion.

Unfortunately, too many orthodox Christians don't know (and don't even care) what is in the anointing oil.  Even if kanehbosm (cannabis) is in it, apparently it is impossible for me to find that information out.  So I'm going to have a hard time proving cannabis is part of my established religion.  But I'm going to try anyway, regardless of the modern Church's oil, because I believe ultimately the Way is between each man and his God.  Only after that is the Way between each man and his Church.

We'll see whether or not I end up in prison.  If the judges judge like the moderators moderate, then I very possibly will end up being treated like a criminal for trying to anoint my loved ones' diseases with the oil that healed mine in Christ.

Your warning for 40 days has been increased to 60 days because you broke the rule on criticizing moderators in the section highlighted in blue and bold. If you do not agree with this action, please feel free to appeal to Father George. Second Chance

[acts420]

You hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.... You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

 - Jesus, the Anointed One, the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God, the Son of Mary

Amen.

[acts420]

Has not God's hand made all these things?  You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! Was there ever a prophet your ancestors did not persecute?

Amen.

[acts420]

This may be an issue of religious liberty, which as with all religious liberties must be exercised with prayer, knowledge, and caution. There are some potential positive medicinal and psychological effects of Cannabis, but there are also potential negative effects. To ingest Cannabis as a non-psychotropric agent is probably good for most people (boil it as a tea in water, without milk or oil, because the psychotropic effects of the THC are only activated when Marijuana is smoked or mixed with fat or oil.) For many people, the psychotropic effects of marijuana produce a calm, meditative state that is very conducive to prayer. But for others, the psychotropic effects of marijuana produce paranoia, confusion, disorentation, and a disruption of the consciousness that is antithetical to prayer and meditation. So, the "one size fits all" mentality is very dangerous.

The Orthodox view of creation is that created matter is good, and we should honor it as such. However, we must also acknowledge the consequences of the fall and realize that all of creation has been affected- not completely corrupted, but affected - by the fall. Therefore, we should not condemn any created thing as evil, but neither should we assume that everything "natural" is beneficial or safe. For example, rattlesnakes are not evil; they are a vital part of the ecosystem. But it would be foolish to assume that because they are created by God that we should not be fearful and cautious in approaching them.

OK, that's my brief two cents on the matter for now.


Selam

Thank you for the very wise comment, and for your truthful and honest behavior in this thread.  It is unfortunately rare to see people with integrity speaking and acting on this website.  But then again, it has been this way in the people of God since Moses.  Gems like you are rare, but they are here.  Thanks for shining Christ's light brilliantly.  Wolves may be abundant among the sheep.  What prophet wasn't persecuted?  But let God be true and every man a liar.

If more people like you believed this could be a matter of religious freedom, then perhaps I could stand a chance at winning the civil lawsuit I'm eventually going to bring against the Federal government....  I have to violate the law to practice my religion... We'll see whether or not I end up in prison.  If the judges judge like the moderators moderate, then I very possibly will end up being treated like a criminal for trying to anoint my loved ones' diseases with the oil that healed mine in Christ.

Your warning for 40 days has been increased to 60 days because you broke the rule on criticizing moderators in the section highlighted in blue and bold. If you do not agree with this action, please feel free to appeal to Father George. Second Chance

Dear Second Chance, Christ is Risen!  Thank you for your moderation.

Whether you are mistaken in disciplining me for what has transpired is up to God.  I have my opinion, but ultimately, as Paul said, "I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself.  My conscience is clear."  

Federal judges and all men sometimes make mistakes. But "the one whose walk is blameless, who does what is righteous, who speaks the truth from their heart... Whoever does these things will never be shaken."  "I am not guilty of turning from my God. All his laws are before me; I have not turned away from his decrees.  I have been blameless before him and have kept myself from sin."   - excerpts from Psalm 15

"Though you probe my heart, oh God, though you examine me at night and test me, you will find that I have planned no evil; my mouth has not transgressed.... Keep me as the apple of your eye; hide me in the shadow of your wings from the wicked who are out to destroy me... Their mouths speak with arrogance...  They have tracked me down, they now surround me, with eyes alert, to throw me to the ground. They are like a lion hungry for prey, like a fierce lion crouching in cover.  As for me, I will be vindicated and will see your face; when I awake, I will be satisfied with seeing your likeness."   - excerpts from Psalms 17,18

"I do not sit with the these deceitful people, nor do I associate with these hypocrites. I wash my hands in innocence, and go about your altar, Lord, proclaiming aloud your praise and telling of all your wonderful deeds.  My feet stand on level ground; in the great congregation I will praise the Lord."  - excerpts from Psalm 26

In Christ,
Jason (acts420)

[LBK]

Dear Second Chance, Christ is Risen!  Thank you for your moderation.

Whether you are mistaken in disciplining me for what has transpired is up to God.  I have my opinion, but ultimately, as Paul said, "I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself.  My conscience is clear."  

Federal judges and all men sometimes make mistakes. But "the one whose walk is blameless, who does what is righteous, who speaks the truth from their heart... Whoever does these things will never be shaken."  "I am not guilty of turning from my God. All his laws are before me; I have not turned away from his decrees.  I have been blameless before him and have kept myself from sin."   - excerpts from Psalm 15

"Though you probe my heart, oh God, though you examine me at night and test me, you will find that I have planned no evil; my mouth has not transgressed.... Keep me as the apple of your eye; hide me in the shadow of your wings from the wicked who are out to destroy me... Their mouths speak with arrogance...  They have tracked me down, they now surround me, with eyes alert, to throw me to the ground. They are like a lion hungry for prey, like a fierce lion crouching in cover.  As for me, I will be vindicated and will see your face; when I awake, I will be satisfied with seeing your likeness."   - excerpts from Psalms 17,18

"I do not sit with the these deceitful people, nor do I associate with these hypocrites. I wash my hands in innocence, and go about your altar, Lord, proclaiming aloud your praise and telling of all your wonderful deeds.  My feet stand on level ground; in the great congregation I will praise the Lord."  - excerpts from Psalm 26

In Christ,
Jason (acts420)

Your increasingly sanctimonious posts are becoming tiresome. Have you voted "yes" on the "Are you righteous" poll thread yet?

[acts420]

Your increasingly sanctimonious posts are becoming tiresome. Have you voted "yes" on the "am I righteous" poll thread yet?

Dear LBK, Christ is Risen!

I'm sorry you are getting tired.  Is it nap time?   No one is forcing you to read the words of Scripture I have posted that you found tiresome.  The words about walking in blamelessness, with a clean conscience, were from Paul and David, breathed by the Holy Spirit.
 
No, I didn't waste my time voting.  I simply acknowledge that my life as a whole makes me the chief among sinners, and I must keep a clean conscience before God as I walk onward. "You, oh God, have delivered me from death and my feet from stumbling, that I may walk before God in the light of life." (Psalm 56).  "They spread a net for my feet— I was bowed down in distress. They dug a pit in my path— but they have fallen into it themselves." (Psalm 57)

[biro]

Acts, quit the passive-aggressive silliness, before someone makes you go sit in the corner.

[acts420]

Acts, quit the passive-aggressive silliness, before someone makes you go sit in the corner.

Biro, Christ is Risen!  It's always good to hear from you.  I think what you mean to say is, "Acts, stop citing Scripture."  But I will not.  When times get tough, what I turn to is the Word of God, and He picks me up.

"I am in the midst of lions;  I am forced to dwell among ravenous beasts— men whose teeth are spears and arrows, whose tongues are sharp swords. Be exalted, O God, above the heavens; let your glory be over all the earth. They spread a net for my feet... They dug a pit in my path—  but they have fallen into it themselves. My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast;  I will sing and make music to my God."  (from Psalm 57)

[biro]

Biro, Christ is Risen!  It's always good to hear from you.  I think what you mean to say is, "Acts, stop citing Scripture."  But I will not.  When times get tough, what I turn to is the Word of God, and He picks me up.

Wow, you are really fond of yourself. That's rich. 

[LBK]

Acts, quit the passive-aggressive silliness, before someone makes you go sit in the corner.

I think what you mean to say is, "Acts, stop citing Scripture."

"I am in the midst of lions;  I am forced to dwell among ravenous beasts— men whose teeth are spears and arrows, whose tongues are sharp swords. Be exalted, O God, above the heavens; let your glory be over all the earth. They spread a net for my feet... They dug a pit in my path—  but they have fallen into it themselves. My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast;  I will sing and make music to my God."  (from Psalm 57)

Text without context is pretext. Lookit me! Lookit me! Ain't I sooo good, and everyone else is a schmuck! is what you're saying. Just like the Publican. Grow up.

[acts420]

"I am in the midst of lions;  I am forced to dwell among ravenous beasts— men whose teeth are spears and arrows, whose tongues are sharp swords. Be exalted, O God, above the heavens; let your glory be over all the earth. They spread a net for my feet... They dug a pit in my path—  but they have fallen into it themselves. My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast;  I will sing and make music to my God."  (from Psalm 57)

... Lookit me! Lookit me! Ain't I sooo good, and everyone else is a schmuck! is what you're saying. Just like the Publican. Grow up.

You probably should not talk about David that way.  He was a man after God's own heart, and God breathed the words that He placed in Scripture through David (and not through you).  You almost sound like you don't think you need to grow up.  But you do.  Desperately.  We all need to grow up continually.

[Asteriktos]

"NVM" - Severian

[orthonorm]

I warned you on how to do this . . . without getting modded.

[biro]

"I am in the midst of lions;  I am forced to dwell among ravenous beasts— men whose teeth are spears and arrows, whose tongues are sharp swords. Be exalted, O God, above the heavens; let your glory be over all the earth. They spread a net for my feet... They dug a pit in my path—  but they have fallen into it themselves. My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast;  I will sing and make music to my God."  (from Psalm 57)

... Lookit me! Lookit me! Ain't I sooo good, and everyone else is a schmuck! is what you're saying. Just like the Publican. Grow up.

You probably should not talk about David that way.  He was a man after God's own heart, and God breathed the words that He placed in Scripture through David (and not through you).  You almost sound like you don't think you need to grow up.  But you do.  Desperately.  We all need to grow up continually.

Conflating yourself with the Scriptures again?

Clearly he was talking about your use of the Scriptures. Then again, your tactic throughout has been to immediately pawn off blame on everyone else, so nobody should be surprised anymore.

[acts420]

I warned you on how to do this . . . without getting modded.

And I appreciate it.  But in my conscience it is more important to speak the truth boldly and expose the lies and hypocrisy so that it becomes plain to those with eyes that see and ears that hear.  Getting modded for speaking what I believe to be true is my gain (even if they think it's my loss).

[mike]

If Rastafarians can legally use cannabis, those who have descended from the oriental orthodox in some form, even if they are not canonical, then I should be able to use cannabis too.  But I'm not. 

Rastafarianism's creators are some Protestant LARPers that had no clue about the Oriental Orthodoxy.

I have to violate the law to practice my religion.

IDK what your religion is but in the Eastern Orthodox Christianity we do not smoke grass for ritual purposes (although some do it for pleasure).

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

If Rastafarians can legally use cannabis, those who have descended from the oriental orthodox in some form, even if they are not canonical, then I should be able to use cannabis too.  But I'm not.  

Rastafarianism's creators are some Protestant LARPers that had no clue about the Oriental Orthodoxy.

A) In the United States Rastafari brothers and sisters CAN NOT legally use cannabis aside from in compliance with any existing state medicinal laws. I can't speak for in the UK or other places. The Supreme Court has indeed recognized Rastafarians' rights to grow dreadlocked hair in the work place but has not recognized Rastafarianism as a legitimate religion (and neither would Rastas want them to I'm sure).  The major "mansions" of Rastafari are indeed 501 C 3 registered in the US, including the Twelve Tribes of Israel and the Nyabinghi Divine Theocratic Order, but this does not inherently give Rastas the same kind of recognition as say the Native American Church notoriously has with peyote.
and now for the history lecture..

B) True, many of the elders of the Rastafari movement were Anglicans and Baptists, a good few were also Catholic under the persuasion and influence of the Honorable Marcus Mosiah Garvey who was himself a good Catholic.  Further, through the Ethiopian World Federation (EWF), and organization founded directly by HIM Haile Selassie in Bath, England 1937, which had spread into the Caribbean and which diplomatically mediated with both the Emperor and the Church which culminated both in the sending of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and clergy on a mission to Trinidad and Tobagos in 1956. Rastas have then for a long time have some clues with the Oriental Orthodox hav After HIM visit to Jamaica in 1966 (which was a coincidental stop in response to a direct invitation by the Rastafari community through the auspices of the EWF, HIM was initially just visiting the Ethiopian parishes in Trinidad nearby) the Rastafari elders and leadership had diplomatically negotiated for the Church to come to Jamaica as well.  In 1966 the Elders  (notice the gentlemen at 8:21 into the clip) met with HIM for several hours, where they publicly received several medals and accommodations from the Emperor and then spent the afternoon talking brass tax.  This culminated in 1970 with the sending of a Tewahedo mission to Jamaica, and with a Bishopric to be established over the dozen parishes then (and now)scattered across the islands.  His Grace Abune Yesehaq was sent initially as a Bishop just of the Caribbean, but later in 1979 HG was appointed to be the Archbishop of all of North America after he had helped to found several parishes in the US (my local parish here in LA being a part of this movement).  Rastafari converts to the Church were integral players in this, directly involved in both leadership negotiations and also grassroots movements (here in LA Rastas were part of the early ማኅበር which helped to found our local Tewahedo parish).  There are two distinct generations of founders of Rastafari, the 1920s-1930s Elders who were Baptists and Anglicans, and the 1950s-1960s Rastas who largely were connected or affiliated with Orthodox.  It is not that Rastafari is Orthodox, not at all.  Orthodox is Orthodox.  However, Orthodox indeed had a significant impact and influence on both generations of Elders in Rastafari, but especially the second and now the third and fourth

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[Agabus]

I just resurrected this thread before Tweety could.

Direct any ire you would have had against him toward me.

'Tis a shame this thread died, though.

What is the OC response — at least those in the U.S. — to the demon weed now that it is legal out west? Does one partake if offered so as not to offend a host's hospitality?

Perhaps that is why we have not seen Acts lo these many months?

[Kerdy]

I just resurrected this thread before Tweety could.

Direct any ire you would have had against him toward me.

'Tis a shame this thread died, though.

What is the OC response — at least those in the U.S. — to the demon weed now that it is legal out west? Does one partake if offered so as not to offend a host's hospitality?

Perhaps that is why we have not seen Acts lo these many months?

No, I would offend before consuming this garbage. It's idiotic what is happening.

Glad it was you bringing this one back.  LOL!

[Eastern Mind]

I always double check the dates of threads not to make sure I'm not contributing in any way to thread necromancy 

[JamesR]

I don't know how much of this is truly science and how much of this is just hippie New Age conspiracy, but either way, isn't inhaling smoke in itself--no matter what it is--still bad for you? That being said though, if I had to pick one of the three bad habits, I would much rather smoke marijuana opposed to drinking alcohol or smoking tobacco--all of which are MUCH worse for you than marijuana. Ideally though, I prefer to touch neither.

[Marc1152]

   i'm hungry

[Agabus]

I don't know how much of this is truly science and how much of this is just hippie New Age conspiracy, but either way, isn't inhaling smoke in itself--no matter what it is--still bad for you? That being said though, if I had to pick one of the three bad habits, I would much rather smoke marijuana opposed to drinking alcohol or smoking tobacco--all of which are MUCH worse for you than marijuana. Ideally though, I prefer to touch neither.

There are legit medical uses of marijuana. Some of the OP's claims are just wishful thinking, though.

And yeah, it's never great for you to inhale smoke, but some pot in moderation won't harm you in the long run.

I don't smoke it, but have plenty of friends who do, including one who did a stint in prison because he was caught with enough of it to be considered "intent to distribute." The time behind bars caused him more harm than the pot ever did.

[Marc1152]

When I went to the University of Maryland in the 1970's the cops raided the dorms at 2 AM and hauled off 36 students. They had informants living in the dorms who fingered people. Students were arrested for very small amounts of pot and incredibly, some were arrested for "conspiracy to possess".

The entire reason for the raid was that the Governor, Marvin Mandel was running for re-election and wanted PR that he was cleaning up drugs on campus.

The campus exploded for days. Thousands of protesters, classes canceled and troops were sent to the Amory just off campus.

I was the newly elected Student President. The admins called me in and and tried to intimidate me. There had been a tradition during the Anti-War Protests  of blocking Route One which runs in front of Campus. They said:

"Marc. We have National Guard five minutes away. If you ( the demonstrators) get anywhere near route one, Well.. we sure don't want another Kent State " Which meant they were threatening to shoot into the crowd.

My reply was:

"Fellas,Telling me you dont want another Kent State is like me saying I intend to burn the administration building down. And guess what, I have far more ability to get this building burned down then you have to fire on students. So lets cut the Bull and see what we have to do to work this out"

How much time was lost? How much money? How much State tax money? And for what? A little pot??..
Pot makes you hungry and horny. It doesn't make you violent and it certainly isnt worth planting informants, having a riot and having perfectly fine young students get arrested.

A few years later Governor Mandel  wound up going to Prison for 19 months for mail fraud and racketeering.

I remain free and at large.

[88Devin12]

I'm still against marijuana. But now I have to ask... What is the difference between drinking alcohol and having one joint? Is there a big difference in intoxication levels?

As for inhalation of smoke, if that were a reason not to do it, then we shouldn't have incense with coals in church, and we shouldn't be putting anyone (kids especially) near the censer. I would, of course, argue that is ridiculous, but you'd have to draw that conclusion if you argue about smoke inhalation.

[mike]

I'm still against marijuana. But now I have to ask... What is the difference between drinking alcohol and having one joint? Is there a big difference in intoxication levels?

Marijuana gets you faster than alcohol however the impact is shorter (about 3 hours max.). As soon as you get high you can't get "higher" (in contrary to alcohol which can be drunk to unconsciousness). There is also difference in action: marijuana makes you lazy, prone to laughter attacks, and hungry. People who smoke it rarely are more resistant to it's effect than those who smoke frequently. Marijuana also does not leave any negative consequences after (there is no anything like hangover).

[FormerReformer]

I'm still against marijuana. But now I have to ask... What is the difference between drinking alcohol and having one joint? Is there a big difference in intoxication levels?

As for inhalation of smoke, if that were a reason not to do it, then we shouldn't have incense with coals in church, and we shouldn't be putting anyone (kids especially) near the censer. I would, of course, argue that is ridiculous, but you'd have to draw that conclusion if you argue about smoke inhalation.

I'd say there's a fairly big difference in just about every type of intoxication between the two. One really can't compare between drinking alcohol and having "one joint" for a variety of reasons- quality of alcohol, quality of marijuana, desired intoxication levels, size of joint, differences in intoxication, etc. A joint rolled from lower strength/quality marijuana might not do much more than give one a headache, while a joint rolled from "the good stuff" might last the smoker quite a while if one or two hits gets him to where he'd like to be.

Smoking marijuana comes with a certain extent of diminishing returns, unlike alcohol. There's a certain point of stoned where smoking more just simply has no further effect- back in my smoking days we called this "smoking ourselves sober". While it is possible to smoke to the point where one doesn't feel like moving and has drastically reduced reaction times, neither I nor anyone I ever smoked with ever reached a point of intoxication where one doesn't remember what one did the next day or behaved out of character (unless "in character" is being a raging jack-ass- in which case pot often had the effect of making those people quite mild indeed)- at least not from marijuana alone. Short term memory loss, is of course, a problem- one might forget all about that pizza in the oven- but he will also remember about that time he forgot about the pizza in the oven for quite a while.

Marijuana gets you faster than alcohol however the impact is shorter (about 3 hours max.). As soon as you get high you can't get "higher" (in contrary to alcohol which can be drunk to unconsciousness). There is also difference in action: marijuana makes you lazy, prone to laughter attacks, and hungry. People who smoke it rarely are more resistant to it's effect than those who smoke frequently. Marijuana also does not leave any negative consequences after (there is no anything like hangover).

Not entirely true- there is the effect that my group called the "weedover". It required quite a bit of smoking the night before, the next day one feels "burned-out" upon immediately waking. A few cups of coffee will clear that right up.

[88Devin12]

Is the rejection of marijuana in the U.S. more attributable to a kind of puritanical mindset amongst Americans? I'm thinking of the same mindset that led to the prohibition of alcohol.

Are we, as Orthodox, opposed to its use because its (mostly) illegal in the United States and other nations? What makes it so different from the effects of alcohol that makes us absolutely reject it, but accept alcohol (so much so that many of our churches have bars)?

Just asking hypothetically here... In my church, sometimes (in non-fasting times) we will have shots of slivovitz after liturgy. We unfortunately also have some people who smoke tobacco inside the social hall. Is it terribly incomprehensible to imagine someone (if it were legal) bringing a joint into a social hall?