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Author Topic: Use of Sarum Liturgy among Old Believers  (Read 814 times) Average Rating: 0
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Orthodox11
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« on: April 07, 2012, 11:39:47 AM »

I just got a copy of Matthew Raphael Johnson's book, Sobornosti: Essays on the Old Faith, which was recommended on another thread.

On page 122, in a list of innovations introduced by the Nikonians (polyphonic singing, western iconography, etc.) he also mentions "the banning of the Sarum rite (the Old Faith performed the Sarum rite on the feast of St. Gregory, from which the Synod of Milan takes its own Roman Rite)".

Does anyone know more about this? The Sarum rite under which form, and where?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 11:40:12 AM by Orthodox11 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2012, 10:01:12 PM »

Hmmm...that is very interesting...

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« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2012, 10:07:27 PM »

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« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2012, 10:58:18 PM »

isn't the sarum rite a rather late development (i.e. 10th century)?
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2012, 03:47:12 AM »

I thought it a rather odd claim. Why would any Western Rite be used by the Russian Church in pre-Petrine Russia? He must either mean use of the Roman canon within the Russo-Byzantine Rite (in which case both his talk of 'Western Rite' and 'Sarum' are incorrect), or he's referring to some Western community that entered into communion with the Old Believers at some point. He doesn't provide any information beyond what I quoted, so no idea what he means or where he's getting it from.
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2012, 03:57:24 AM »

Maybe some of the Benedictines of Athos moved to Russia...?
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2012, 10:21:26 AM »

I think it was on this forum that someone mentioned St. Seraphim of Sarov wore a white cassock because of Dominican communities that had become Orthodox. However, that does not explain why they would use Sarum, and it seems strange that the Old Believers, so hostile to Greek liturgical practices would have happily used a Catholic form. So I doubt that's the reason either.
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2012, 12:45:35 PM »

I think it was on this forum that someone mentioned St. Seraphim of Sarov wore a white cassock because of Dominican communities that had become Orthodox. However, that does not explain why they would use Sarum, and it seems strange that the Old Believers, so hostile to Greek liturgical practices would have happily used a Catholic form. So I doubt that's the reason either.

Look up "Liturgy of St. Peter".  Seems it was the Old Believers who were most familiar with this early form of Roman Rite, even if it is not exactly the "Sarum" Liturgy. I can easily see how it would come to be called "Sarum" since there was contact between England and Russia, and any Englishman who would have been familiar with the various Liturgies would have noted that this was an ancient Liturgy similar to the Old English ones, and may have used the term "Sarum" for it.
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2012, 01:21:30 PM »

I think it was on this forum that someone mentioned St. Seraphim of Sarov wore a white cassock because of Dominican communities that had become Orthodox. However, that does not explain why they would use Sarum, and it seems strange that the Old Believers, so hostile to Greek liturgical practices would have happily used a Catholic form. So I doubt that's the reason either.

Look up "Liturgy of St. Peter".  Seems it was the Old Believers who were most familiar with this early form of Roman Rite, even if it is not exactly the "Sarum" Liturgy. I can easily see how it would come to be called "Sarum" since there was contact between England and Russia, and any Englishman who would have been familiar with the various Liturgies would have noted that this was an ancient Liturgy similar to the Old English ones, and may have used the term "Sarum" for it.

Thanks for this. I found this article, which gives a little bit of background about its use, as well as the text of the Liturgy itself.
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2012, 01:48:57 PM »

I think it was on this forum that someone mentioned St. Seraphim of Sarov wore a white cassock because of Dominican communities that had become Orthodox. However, that does not explain why they would use Sarum, and it seems strange that the Old Believers, so hostile to Greek liturgical practices would have happily used a Catholic form. So I doubt that's the reason either.

Look up "Liturgy of St. Peter".  Seems it was the Old Believers who were most familiar with this early form of Roman Rite, even if it is not exactly the "Sarum" Liturgy. I can easily see how it would come to be called "Sarum" since there was contact between England and Russia, and any Englishman who would have been familiar with the various Liturgies would have noted that this was an ancient Liturgy similar to the Old English ones, and may have used the term "Sarum" for it.

Thanks for this. I found this article, which gives a little bit of background about its use, as well as the text of the Liturgy itself.

Good.  That is the one that I was hoping you would find.  Since it has been found that the Old Believer Liturgies were actually more ancient than the Greek practice at the time of Patriarch Nikon, it would just seem proper that they would have copies of the old forms of other Liturgies, too.
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2012, 06:17:39 PM »

I think it was on this forum that someone mentioned St. Seraphim of Sarov wore a white cassock because of Dominican communities that had become Orthodox. However, that does not explain why they would use Sarum, and it seems strange that the Old Believers, so hostile to Greek liturgical practices would have happily used a Catholic form. So I doubt that's the reason either.

Interesting bit about the white cassock.  Something to keep in the back of your mind when doing this sort of research is that the Rzeczpospolita and Muscovy / the later Russian Empire swapped large swathes of territory back and forth.  Most of the older churches I've been to in Central and Western Ukraine have been both Catholic and Orthodox at some point in their existence - in some cases even bouncing between Byzantine and Latin rites.  So it isn't inconceivable that a Latin practice could have entered pre-Nikonian Muscovy via the Rzeczpospolita.  It is also worth reading about the Nikonian reforms from the perspective of Ukrainian historiography.  An idea that I've seen put forth is that the large number of much more highly educated and erudite clergy from the Rzeczpospolita flooding into Muscovy caused at some level or exacerbated the conflict.  I don't have any concrete citations off the top of my head at the moment, but the borders between Muscovy and the Rzeczpospolita at this point were neither stable no sealed, so picking up a Roman Canon doesn't seem too extraordinary to me.  This is an interesting thread and goes to show Muscovy wasn't nearly as isolated as some propagandists would have it.     
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« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2012, 03:29:24 AM »

Influences usually were moving the opposite way. I have not heard of any activity besides the Union (and maybe some Byzantine art in the time of early Jagiellons) when Latins took Eastern customs.
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