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Author Topic: Holy Week - Suffering of Christ  (Read 314 times) Average Rating: 0
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alanscott
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« on: April 05, 2012, 04:02:55 PM »

Hello all,
As my wife and I are trying to put more focus on the daily events Christ went through this week she commented this morning that she felt sad our Lord had to suffer and die for us. We talked about ‘had’ being the key word as He did not have to but willingly subjected Himself to do so. In that way any understandable sadness in our hearts perhaps should be tempered by gratefulness and joy.

She then made the statement “I just wish it didn’t have to be so violent” To which I have no idea what to think or say really.

What is the Orthodox view on these two related issues?

In Christ,

Scott
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There are heathens that live with more virtue than I. The devil himself believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Neither of these things truly makes me Christian.
Shanghaiski
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Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2012, 04:57:26 PM »

Hello all,
As my wife and I are trying to put more focus on the daily events Christ went through this week she commented this morning that she felt sad our Lord had to suffer and die for us. We talked about ‘had’ being the key word as He did not have to but willingly subjected Himself to do so. In that way any understandable sadness in our hearts perhaps should be tempered by gratefulness and joy.

She then made the statement “I just wish it didn’t have to be so violent” To which I have no idea what to think or say really.

What is the Orthodox view on these two related issues?

In Christ,

Scott

Perhaps think of it this way. The Lord willingly gave his life to defend us from our enemies--sin, death, the devil. In suffering, being humiliated, patiently enduring sorrows, in being betrayed and rejected, beaten, nailed to the Cross, derided, etc., along with descending into Hades and rising from the dead, raising up Adam and his race with Himself, He gave us life, righteousness, joy, peace, and an unbreakable relationship with Himself since He has willingly partaken of our humanity, taken our sins upon Himself, and raised us from death. Of course these sufferings are sad. Who would not weep seeing Him crucified? Those faithful women, His mother, and the beloved St. John all wept, together with Sts. Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus. St. Mary Madgalene wept at his tomb until the Lord appeared. When we weep over the Lord's sufferings, we join His friends, His saints, who did likewise. Then, on Pascha, we join the same in hearing those wonderful words of joy from the Angel, "Why do you seek the living among the dead? He is risen."

The beautiful liturgical texts illuminate these things much better than I could. After many years, attention, and meditation and prayer and repentance, the Holy Spirit leads one to a deeper measure of understanding.
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Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
alanscott
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Posts: 309



« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2012, 05:25:19 PM »

Hello all,
As my wife and I are trying to put more focus on the daily events Christ went through this week she commented this morning that she felt sad our Lord had to suffer and die for us. We talked about ‘had’ being the key word as He did not have to but willingly subjected Himself to do so. In that way any understandable sadness in our hearts perhaps should be tempered by gratefulness and joy.

She then made the statement “I just wish it didn’t have to be so violent” To which I have no idea what to think or say really.

What is the Orthodox view on these two related issues?

In Christ,

Scott

Perhaps think of it this way. The Lord willingly gave his life to defend us from our enemies--sin, death, the devil. In suffering, being humiliated, patiently enduring sorrows, in being betrayed and rejected, beaten, nailed to the Cross, derided, etc., along with descending into Hades and rising from the dead, raising up Adam and his race with Himself, He gave us life, righteousness, joy, peace, and an unbreakable relationship with Himself since He has willingly partaken of our humanity, taken our sins upon Himself, and raised us from death. Of course these sufferings are sad. Who would not weep seeing Him crucified? Those faithful women, His mother, and the beloved St. John all wept, together with Sts. Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus. St. Mary Madgalene wept at his tomb until the Lord appeared. When we weep over the Lord's sufferings, we join His friends, His saints, who did likewise. Then, on Pascha, we join the same in hearing those wonderful words of joy from the Angel, "Why do you seek the living among the dead? He is risen."

The beautiful liturgical texts illuminate these things much better than I could. After many years, attention, and meditation and prayer and repentance, the Holy Spirit leads one to a deeper measure of understanding.

That's beautiful Sir, Thank You. Pretty much the way we see it as well. Though the comfort of joining those that were there and did likewise is not something I have ever been taught or considered. Nice! 

We have not even entertained the descending aspect yet this week. That in my (our) humble opinion may be more of His sacrifice for us than even the Crucifixion though that is truly difficult to imagine. Yes, then when we get to Easter (Pascha)  Smiley  well, seems to mean more and more each year. Glory be to God!

Any thoughts on why our Lord chose for this to happen in such a violent manner? I put no limitations on Him (of course!) thus think there must be a reason He chose as opposed to just the circumstances as it played out.   
Logged

There are heathens that live with more virtue than I. The devil himself believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Neither of these things truly makes me Christian.
Shanghaiski
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Posts: 7,964


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2012, 06:30:11 PM »

Hello all,
As my wife and I are trying to put more focus on the daily events Christ went through this week she commented this morning that she felt sad our Lord had to suffer and die for us. We talked about ‘had’ being the key word as He did not have to but willingly subjected Himself to do so. In that way any understandable sadness in our hearts perhaps should be tempered by gratefulness and joy.

She then made the statement “I just wish it didn’t have to be so violent” To which I have no idea what to think or say really.

What is the Orthodox view on these two related issues?

In Christ,

Scott

Perhaps think of it this way. The Lord willingly gave his life to defend us from our enemies--sin, death, the devil. In suffering, being humiliated, patiently enduring sorrows, in being betrayed and rejected, beaten, nailed to the Cross, derided, etc., along with descending into Hades and rising from the dead, raising up Adam and his race with Himself, He gave us life, righteousness, joy, peace, and an unbreakable relationship with Himself since He has willingly partaken of our humanity, taken our sins upon Himself, and raised us from death. Of course these sufferings are sad. Who would not weep seeing Him crucified? Those faithful women, His mother, and the beloved St. John all wept, together with Sts. Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus. St. Mary Madgalene wept at his tomb until the Lord appeared. When we weep over the Lord's sufferings, we join His friends, His saints, who did likewise. Then, on Pascha, we join the same in hearing those wonderful words of joy from the Angel, "Why do you seek the living among the dead? He is risen."

The beautiful liturgical texts illuminate these things much better than I could. After many years, attention, and meditation and prayer and repentance, the Holy Spirit leads one to a deeper measure of understanding.

That's beautiful Sir, Thank You. Pretty much the way we see it as well. Though the comfort of joining those that were there and did likewise is not something I have ever been taught or considered. Nice! 

We have not even entertained the descending aspect yet this week. That in my (our) humble opinion may be more of His sacrifice for us than even the Crucifixion though that is truly difficult to imagine. Yes, then when we get to Easter (Pascha)  Smiley  well, seems to mean more and more each year. Glory be to God!

Any thoughts on why our Lord chose for this to happen in such a violent manner? I put no limitations on Him (of course!) thus think there must be a reason He chose as opposed to just the circumstances as it played out.   

Well, when you look at the consequences of sin--the violence of murder with Cain slaying Abel, on down to the end of the world, it seems to me quite natural that the humble Word would, in humbling Himself to death on a Cross--the most ignominious death imaginable in that context--would be, in that, both the prefigurement and the fulfillment of human suffering, if that makes sense. That is, His suffering, His passion, is the archetype in which all human misery is offered to God and redeemed, so that no one suffers anymore in vain--that is, without God knowing it, without redemption. Those who suffer anything innocently partake of Christ's Passion. Those who suffer due to guilt still receive through the Lord's suffering a purification if they endure it patiently as He did (and as the Good Thief did). He suffered violence to bring the violent to repentance and redemption, since He suffered it willingly and innocently. He suffered violence so that those others who suffer violence may be comforted, both in this life through His strength and patience, and in the next with eternal joy.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
mabsoota
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Kyrie eleison


« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2012, 04:56:35 AM »

that's what i was going to say!
except u said it better!
 Wink
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alanscott
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Faith: Protestant
Jurisdiction: Wesleyan
Posts: 309



« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2012, 11:35:51 AM »

Hello all,
As my wife and I are trying to put more focus on the daily events Christ went through this week she commented this morning that she felt sad our Lord had to suffer and die for us. We talked about ‘had’ being the key word as He did not have to but willingly subjected Himself to do so. In that way any understandable sadness in our hearts perhaps should be tempered by gratefulness and joy.

She then made the statement “I just wish it didn't have to be so violent To which I have no idea what to think or say really.

What is the Orthodox view on these two related issues?

In Christ,

Scott

Perhaps think of it this way. The Lord willingly gave his life to defend us from our enemies--sin, death, the devil. In suffering, being humiliated, patiently enduring sorrows, in being betrayed and rejected, beaten, nailed to the Cross, derided, etc., along with descending into Hades and rising from the dead, raising up Adam and his race with Himself, He gave us life, righteousness, joy, peace, and an unbreakable relationship with Himself since He has willingly partaken of our humanity, taken our sins upon Himself, and raised us from death. Of course these sufferings are sad. Who would not weep seeing Him crucified? Those faithful women, His mother, and the beloved St. John all wept, together with Sts. Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus. St. Mary Madgalene wept at his tomb until the Lord appeared. When we weep over the Lord's sufferings, we join His friends, His saints, who did likewise. Then, on Pascha, we join the same in hearing those wonderful words of joy from the Angel, "Why do you seek the living among the dead? He is risen."

The beautiful liturgical texts illuminate these things much better than I could. After many years, attention, and meditation and prayer and repentance, the Holy Spirit leads one to a deeper measure of understanding.

That's beautiful Sir, Thank You. Pretty much the way we see it as well. Though the comfort of joining those that were there and did likewise is not something I have ever been taught or considered. Nice! 

We have not even entertained the descending aspect yet this week. That in my (our) humble opinion may be more of His sacrifice for us than even the Crucifixion though that is truly difficult to imagine. Yes, then when we get to Easter (Pascha)  Smiley  well, seems to mean more and more each year. Glory be to God!

Any thoughts on why our Lord chose for this to happen in such a violent manner? I put no limitations on Him (of course!) thus think there must be a reason He chose as opposed to just the circumstances as it played out.   

Well, when you look at the consequences of sin--the violence of murder with Cain slaying Abel, on down to the end of the world, it seems to me quite natural that the humble Word would, in humbling Himself to death on a Cross--the most ignominious death imaginable in that context--would be, in that, both the prefigurement and the fulfillment of human suffering, if that makes sense. That is, His suffering, His passion, is the archetype in which all human misery is offered to God and redeemed, so that no one suffers anymore in vain--that is, without God knowing it, without redemption. Those who suffer anything innocently partake of Christ's Passion. Those who suffer due to guilt still receive through the Lord's suffering a purification if they endure it patiently as He did (and as the Good Thief did). He suffered violence to bring the violent to repentance and redemption, since He suffered it willingly and innocently. He suffered violence so that those others who suffer violence may be comforted, both in this life through His strength and patience, and in the next with eternal joy.

Yes, that definitely makes sense. Thank You!

I'll be leaving shortly to join my wife, daughter, and new born grandson in western N.C. for the weekend! I mention this not only because I'm excited, but because I want you to know it will indeed add a little depth and understanding to the meaning of our Easter weekend. Glory to God.

I extend my gratitude to mabsoota as well. Even though Shanghaiski beat you to the point.  Smiley

In Christ,

Scott 
Logged

There are heathens that live with more virtue than I. The devil himself believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Neither of these things truly makes me Christian.
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