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Author Topic: tv/projector screens during liturgical services??  (Read 5394 times) Average Rating: 0
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Timos
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« on: April 01, 2012, 09:32:10 AM »

Hi, I recently went to a few Orthodox churches and I noticed that they had projector or tv screens positioned immediately above the iconostasis or to the side of the iconostasis during the divine liturgy. It had the text of the liturgy displayed so that the laity could follow along with the clergy as the liturgy progressed. Is there any reason for or against this?

In my own personal opinion, I find that it is extremely distracting from the liturgy itself. I have to focus my attention on reading the words of a bright screen (covering some of the icons no less) or if it is to the side of the iconostasis, I have to twist my head away from the altar where our attention should be...am I making a big deal out of nothing? What is the limit for using technology in liturgical services?
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2012, 10:52:37 AM »

Personally, I don't like the idea, especially if icons are being covered by text.

If the parish can not afford to buy service books perhaps they could print out a few copies of just the liturgy and vespers for parishoners to use.
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2012, 11:26:29 AM »

Oh, please let this be an April Fools post...
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« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2012, 11:58:37 AM »

No...this is true...it's widespread in the Coptic Church...

I don't see the problem.  I'm sure the use of electric lighting and microphones with speakers were very controversial in their times.  The use of projectors are an excellent idea in my humble opinion.  No difference than following along in a book if you need to.

And if you don't need to follow along, then there's no need to look in that direction, or better yet, close your eyes to prayer.
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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2012, 12:28:25 PM »

On reflection, it makes sense,particularly in a church with a lot of converts. Liturgy is complex and service books can be hard to follow. I guess it's just the modern equivalent of the ancient cantor.

The not so serious side of me is having a lot of fun with this though. I think we can improve on the idea. Let's add an animated CG figure to the screen - kind of like the robot football player the NFL uses - to direct the laity. Like a little electronic richard simmons , it can show everyone when to cross themselves, when to respond, and when to prostrate. Maybe it could look like Hyperdox Herman. Grin
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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2012, 12:57:44 PM »

On reflection, it makes sense,particularly in a church with a lot of converts. Liturgy is complex and service books can be hard to follow. I guess it's just the modern equivalent of the ancient cantor.

The not so serious side of me is having a lot of fun with this though. I think we can improve on the idea. Let's add an animated CG figure to the screen - kind of like the robot football player the NFL uses - to direct the laity. Like a little electronic richard simmons , it can show everyone when to cross themselves, when to respond, and when to prostrate. Maybe it could look like Hyperdox Herman. Grin

wait till holograms come out  Wink
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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2012, 01:03:30 PM »

Oh, please let this be an April Fools post...

Yeah. Everybody I know has service books.
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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2012, 01:21:58 PM »

If they do have tvs... they should replay football games and the like. I bet attendance would go up 10% fairly quickly. And I know what you naysayers will nayingly say: that these people would be watching tv and not the liturgy. Well there are commercial breaks, did you ever think of that?
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2012, 01:35:46 PM »

Oh, please let this be an April Fools post...

my thoughts exactly. people 1500 years ago didn't need these things to follow along and worship, why should we? It's just laziness...
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2012, 01:56:55 PM »

Oh, please let this be an April Fools post...

my thoughts exactly. people 1500 years ago didn't need these things to follow along and worship, why should we? It's just laziness...

I know right!  Forget microphones, air conditioning/heating, and electric lighting!!!  Such novelties the Church fathers would have been condemning!
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« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2012, 02:01:33 PM »

Oh, please let this be an April Fools post...

my thoughts exactly. people 1500 years ago didn't need these things to follow along and worship, why should we? It's just laziness...

I know right!  Forget microphones, air conditioning/heating, and electric lighting!!!  Such novelties the Church fathers would have been condemning!

agreed! Wink
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« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2012, 02:02:00 PM »

Oh, please let this be an April Fools post...

Yeah. Everybody I know has service books.
Sorry, but when I first read the OP, this is the image that first came to mind:
 http://dailyserving.com/2009/11/joe-johnson-mega-churches/
And all I could think was, "No, please, not our churches, too..."
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« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2012, 02:04:22 PM »

While my own church uses these projector screens (as Mina says, they're quite popular in Coptic churches), part of me wishes they didn't. I try to follow along in the service books as best as I can, but I find it's often a losing battle, as it's so much easier to just look at the screen (especially since I'm relatively new to the Coptic liturgy, and often get lost even when I have the service book handy). Then of course there are some times when no one advances the slide or the slide gets stuck and you can really tell who is paying attention...it's shameful.
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« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2012, 02:04:42 PM »

There is such a thing as what is tasteful and appropriate. I'm not sure that I want church to be the same atmosphere as a baseball game.

An air conditioner creates no such problem. A giganto screen and subtitles and whatnot? Yes it does. There is a difference.
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« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2012, 02:10:12 PM »

I will tell you that I have had recurring nightmares that my new church becomes modernized (and big screens are a very vivid part of the dream). I am highly distressed in the dream, and am always left with the thought "what happened??" My megachurch past has done alot of damage to my psyche...everything always being in constant flux. Makes me hesitant to trust my new church...still waiting for someone to pull the rug out from under me. Hopefully with time it will earn my trust and the bad dreams will go away!  Smiley
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« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2012, 02:30:06 PM »

Hi, I recently went to a few Orthodox churches and I noticed that they had projector or tv screens positioned immediately above the iconostasis or to the side of the iconostasis during the divine liturgy. It had the text of the liturgy displayed so that the laity could follow along with the clergy as the liturgy progressed. Is there any reason for or against this?

In my own personal opinion, I find that it is extremely distracting from the liturgy itself. I have to focus my attention on reading the words of a bright screen (covering some of the icons no less) or if it is to the side of the iconostasis, I have to twist my head away from the altar where our attention should be...am I making a big deal out of nothing? What is the limit for using technology in liturgical services?

I read an article how this was being tested in a Moscow parish but it was discontinued after a few weeks because of negative reaction amongst the faithful. Even then it was not near the iconostasis but off to the side. I am surprised to see that this is being done in a few Orthodox churches. Where in the world is this happening? Personally, I do not like it because it distracts the faithful from putting their attention towards the altar.
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2012, 03:12:53 PM »

While my own church uses these projector screens (as Mina says, they're quite popular in Coptic churches), part of me wishes they didn't. I try to follow along in the service books as best as I can, but I find it's often a losing battle, as it's so much easier to just look at the screen (especially since I'm relatively new to the Coptic liturgy, and often get lost even when I have the service book handy). Then of course there are some times when no one advances the slide or the slide gets stuck and you can really tell who is paying attention...it's shameful.
Just where exactly is your screen located? I would agree that there is a fairly serious problem if the screen is off to the side somewhere, but if it's as close to front and centre as can be done without interfering with the icons, then it seems to me that it would be an improvement over having people's noses stuck inside a service book and not even realizing what's going on in the service. At least their eyes would be up and looking forward.

Your comment about having a responsible and alert person managing the slides is also correct.

Much of this discussion I think we've had before, but focused more on chanters/choir having an electronic version of the service in front of them. It could be a good thing - but like any other tool, is only as good as the operator.

I've seen cases of chanters and priests missing whole sections of a service because they turned to the wrong page of a printed book. All of these things have potential problems.
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2012, 03:15:51 PM »

The medium is the message.
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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2012, 03:20:07 PM »

If I saw that in a church I'd walk out. I'm a snob like that.
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« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2012, 03:26:37 PM »

Quote
Just where exactly is your screen located? I would agree that there is a fairly serious problem if the screen is off to the side somewhere, but if it's as close to front and centre as can be done without interfering with the icons, then it seems to me that it would be an improvement over having people's noses stuck inside a service book and not even realizing what's going on in the service. At least their eyes would be up and looking forward.

I assume that is in line with the thinking of those who put in the screen in the first place. I have only been attending liturgy here for 7 months, and it was here when I got here. It would be hard to explain its placement without a picture, and our situation here in Albuquerque is probably very different than most Coptic churches anyway, as we are a tiny community (~40 people) and we lack our own church. We worship in a private home and what icons there are are not blocked in any way by the screen. It's not a very big screen, and it is angled in such a way that you can see everything that goes on in front of the altar without any problems. It is more a matter of concentrating on what is actually going on, as you've noted. I've seen people become just as distracted by their children or their cellphones, yet no one has suggested throwing either of those out.
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« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2012, 03:30:23 PM »

Actually I was talking about Coptic Orthodox parishes. Based on what biro said: "There is such a thing as what is tasteful and appropriate. I'm not sure that I want church to be the same atmosphere as a baseball game.

An air conditioner creates no such problem. A giganto screen and subtitles and whatnot? Yes it does. There is a difference." ... I tend to see things like that as well. Its not that having a screen is inherently wrong but I just think that it is really misplaced. The focus and attention of the divine liturgy is on the altar and the icons help to bring that into focus. But when the icons are (partially) covered by a huge screen, it takes away from the mystical aspect/transcendence of the liturgy..projector screen make me think of school and work while tv screens make me think of hockey games (I'm Canadian eh Smiley ) at Wacky Wings. Nothing from the outside world is supposed to enter our church to distract us from the central worship. I think that's also why for the most part, we do not have instruments in our church...our worship is not meant to mirror this world but to show a glimpse of the next (ie heaven). Huge bright neon lights and distracting screens do not seem to fit into that description.
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« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2012, 03:32:01 PM »

Then of course there are some times when no one advances the slide or the slide gets stuck and you can really tell who is paying attention...it's shameful.

I agree...that is very shameful.
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« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2012, 03:34:25 PM »

It is more a matter of concentrating on what is actually going on, as you've noted. I've seen people become just as distracted by their children or their cellphones, yet no one has suggested throwing either of those out.

Can't concentrate on what's going on if I've left the church. Also, that's strange about the cell phones. Leaving your cell phone on by accident once might just get you some dirty stares... but making the mistake more than once? I'd expect a stern talking to by several old women, the deacon, and then the priest. Regarding children, they're an investment, we can't really throw them out. It's sort of like that super-ugly and super-large painting in the hall that will never get thrown out because it was painted by a wealthy member of the parish and donated with the expectation that it would be shown. Sometimes you just put up with stuff like that to secure long-term financial health.
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« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2012, 03:34:54 PM »

Actually I was talking about Coptic Orthodox parishes. Based on what biro said: "There is such a thing as what is tasteful and appropriate. I'm not sure that I want church to be the same atmosphere as a baseball game.

An air conditioner creates no such problem. A giganto screen and subtitles and whatnot? Yes it does. There is a difference." ... I tend to see things like that as well. Its not that having a screen is inherently wrong but I just think that it is really misplaced. The focus and attention of the divine liturgy is on the altar and the icons help to bring that into focus. But when the icons are (partially) covered by a huge screen, it takes away from the mystical aspect/transcendence of the liturgy..projector screen make me think of school and work while tv screens make me think of hockey games (I'm Canadian eh Smiley ) at Wacky Wings. Nothing from the outside world is supposed to enter our church to distract us from the central worship. I think that's also why for the most part, we do not have instruments in our church...our worship is not meant to mirror this world but to show a glimpse of the next (ie heaven). Huge bright neon lights and distracting screens do not seem to fit into that description.

If everything was in English, you would have a good argument Wink
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« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2012, 03:52:59 PM »

Mina habibi, most churches these days have books with 2 or 3 languages printed side by side...tons and tons of books! There's no reason not to simply notify people of changes such as differing anaphoras or fraction prayers etc. Theres also lots of books for communion hymns that are often placed in the pocket of the pews.  At the end of the day, anything that covers up the icons or takes away the focus from the altar is not really desirable but to each their own. Screens are not 'necessary' they're just a luxury for people who are too lazy to open up a book and it also shows negatively on the clergy because of the disrespect of casually covering the icons like that.
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« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2012, 03:53:28 PM »

It is one thing to talk about how things should be; I don't think you'd find any Coptic Orthodox person who wouldn't be in favor of getting rid of the screens (I know I would like to see them gone, even though I just admitted that I do use them) if it could be guaranteed that they wouldn't be proven necessary the very next week when it became obvious that not everyone has learned the liturgy. So there'd be a certain amount of retraining of the laity that would have to happen. I think it would be good to see it, but I'm not about to suggest to abouna that he undertake it when he already flies in from out of state once every two weeks to celebrate the liturgy with us in the first place. And of course, being new and not Coptic, I would not be able to back up my request with the necessary action on my part. There's just too much I don't know for me to go around telling others to learn. So I keep my preferences to myself and try to learn from watching and listening to others. I know this is not the most "mystical" approach, but it is the reality of life in our tiny Coptic community where there is some variation in terms of English/Coptic/Arabic fluency and general retention of the various portions of the liturgy. Perhaps we could all use some sunday school lessons. I don't know. We try our best despite all our shortcomings.
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« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2012, 04:11:14 PM »

dzheremi, it isn't only parishes (sadly) which use them...I went to a US (Coptic) monastery for a visit last summer and they also used the screen extensively...clearly your situation is different from mine so I cannot really comment because I've never been in your shoes. I'm not trying to start random problems. For me (and many others I've spoken to), it just seems like a twisted approach to liturgy. It becomes more like we're watching something than truly actively participating despite the irony that this is what it is meant to induce.
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« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2012, 04:45:45 PM »

dzheremi, it isn't only parishes (sadly) which use them...I went to a US (Coptic) monastery for a visit last summer and they also used the screen extensively...clearly your situation is different from mine so I cannot really comment because I've never been in your shoes. I'm not trying to start random problems. For me (and many others I've spoken to), it just seems like a twisted approach to liturgy. It becomes more like we're watching something than truly actively participating despite the irony that this is what it is meant to induce.

That's my point though: While the specific situation here may present certain challenges that are unique to us, I don't think our response would be anything out of the ordinary if we decided to get rid of the screens. I hardly think we would be the only ones to realize how little we actually know if we were to take away the screens. My point was more that, yes, I would like to see them gone, but I am not in the position to fix things so that we can stop using them. I suspect many people would be forced to admit the same about their parishes, no matter what their size or makeup. At any rate, it is something to be dealt with in the churches themselves. As Genesisone has already pointed out, we could have analogous problems while not using screens.
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« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2012, 05:22:18 PM »

I waiting for them to start handing out ipads as u enter the church.

The Ipad then sinks to the proper line being read. with pictures and translations and explenations of whats going on.

Humm...i was just joking but it dosent sound all that bad, at least for a new convert it would be very helpfull.


though, it annoys me when i loose my place in the church book and then i have to flip around to find where we are.
in general i find that following along in the liturgy book takes away from the holy feel i get in church.
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« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2012, 05:46:33 PM »

dzheremi, it isn't only parishes (sadly) which use them...I went to a US (Coptic) monastery for a visit last summer and they also used the screen extensively...clearly your situation is different from mine so I cannot really comment because I've never been in your shoes. I'm not trying to start random problems. For me (and many others I've spoken to), it just seems like a twisted approach to liturgy. It becomes more like we're watching something than truly actively participating despite the irony that this is what it is meant to induce.

It eliminates the "I-don't-go-to-church-because-I-don't-understand-what-they-are-saying" excuse.  Of course they then say they don't go because the liturgy is too long.

Whatever. 

The intent is to help people get closer to God by being able to follow with the prayers.  Of course there are the books, but so many people say that holding a book is too burdensome.

 Roll Eyes

Again, whatever.
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« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2012, 06:09:47 PM »

Oh, please let this be an April Fools post...

my thoughts exactly. people 1500 years ago didn't need these things to follow along and worship, why should we? It's just laziness...

I know right!  Forget microphones, air conditioning/heating, and electric lighting!!!  Such novelties the Church fathers would have been condemning!

Personally, I think the buzz of flourescent lights starting up one by one when the doxology is sung is rather distracting.

I also find it rather irksome when liturgical action is interrupted by the constant fussing over the positioning of microphones, or when clergy are so attached to them they cannot project their voices further than a few centimetres in their absence.

I suppose projector technology has at least the same capacity to distract from and hinder worship, if not utilised properly.
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« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2012, 06:11:43 PM »

While my own church uses these projector screens (as Mina says, they're quite popular in Coptic churches), part of me wishes they didn't. I try to follow along in the service books as best as I can, but I find it's often a losing battle, as it's so much easier to just look at the screen (especially since I'm relatively new to the Coptic liturgy, and often get lost even when I have the service book handy). Then of course there are some times when no one advances the slide or the slide gets stuck and you can really tell who is paying attention...it's shameful.

I assume yours is not an English language parish, Jeremy?
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« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2012, 06:13:59 PM »

dzheremi, it isn't only parishes (sadly) which use them...I went to a US (Coptic) monastery for a visit last summer and they also used the screen extensively...clearly your situation is different from mine so I cannot really comment because I've never been in your shoes. I'm not trying to start random problems. For me (and many others I've spoken to), it just seems like a twisted approach to liturgy. It becomes more like we're watching something than truly actively participating despite the irony that this is what it is meant to induce.

It eliminates the "I-don't-go-to-church-because-I-don't-understand-what-they-are-saying" excuse.  Of course they then say they don't go because the liturgy is too long.

Whatever. 

The intent is to help people get closer to God by being able to follow with the prayers.  Of course there are the books, but so many people say that holding a book is too burdensome.

 Roll Eyes

Again, whatever.


This is kinda the point, isn't it?

People will find any excuse to say that the liturgy is impenetrable to their mental powers.
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« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2012, 06:19:55 PM »

While my own church uses these projector screens (as Mina says, they're quite popular in Coptic churches), part of me wishes they didn't. I try to follow along in the service books as best as I can, but I find it's often a losing battle, as it's so much easier to just look at the screen (especially since I'm relatively new to the Coptic liturgy, and often get lost even when I have the service book handy). Then of course there are some times when no one advances the slide or the slide gets stuck and you can really tell who is paying attention...it's shameful.

I assume yours is not an English language parish, Jeremy?

I'm not sure how to answer that question. The liturgy is about 75% in English, but I am the only native English-speaking person who regularly attends, and there is wide variation in the level of English-proficiency among the laity.
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« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2012, 06:26:04 PM »

While my own church uses these projector screens (as Mina says, they're quite popular in Coptic churches), part of me wishes they didn't. I try to follow along in the service books as best as I can, but I find it's often a losing battle, as it's so much easier to just look at the screen (especially since I'm relatively new to the Coptic liturgy, and often get lost even when I have the service book handy). Then of course there are some times when no one advances the slide or the slide gets stuck and you can really tell who is paying attention...it's shameful.

I assume yours is not an English language parish, Jeremy?

I'm not sure how to answer that question. The liturgy is about 75% in English, but I am the only native English-speaking person who regularly attends, and there is wide variation in the level of English-proficiency among the laity.

Highlighting the necessity of things like service books, I suppose.

I don't like having my head buried in a service book, but sometimes they are a necessary evil.
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« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2012, 07:05:56 PM »

While my own church uses these projector screens (as Mina says, they're quite popular in Coptic churches), part of me wishes they didn't. I try to follow along in the service books as best as I can, but I find it's often a losing battle, as it's so much easier to just look at the screen (especially since I'm relatively new to the Coptic liturgy, and often get lost even when I have the service book handy). Then of course there are some times when no one advances the slide or the slide gets stuck and you can really tell who is paying attention...it's shameful.

I assume yours is not an English language parish, Jeremy?

I'm not sure how to answer that question. The liturgy is about 75% in English, but I am the only native English-speaking person who regularly attends, and there is wide variation in the level of English-proficiency among the laity.

Highlighting the necessity of things like service books, I suppose.

I don't like having my head buried in a service book, but sometimes they are a necessary evil.

they are necessary at first, but once we learn the services we want to stop them eventually. That is, they encourage us to learn the text so that later we don't have to rely on it. With a scrolling banner, most likely people wouldn't have any incentive to learn it, they would just keep reading it as it scrolls (it's too easy, so no reason to bother learning it).
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« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2012, 07:40:46 PM »

When I attended an Indian Orthodox parish, I'll admit, I would rather have the screen than a book.  Sometimes, things get skipped around in the book that it's hard for the person to follow for the longest time until they finally understand the rubrics of the liturgy.  Coptic liturgical books aren't that much different.  I mean granted there is a nice organization to them now, but yet still, there are some areas of skipping around that if not understood or experience, will end up making one getting lost.

With the screen, after a couple of months, one will get to understand what's going on.  No need to be distracted flipping books and learning where things go.  When one learns the essentials of liturgical prayers, then the "extra" in books are to be understood later.  I don't see the learning by books vs. learning by projectors any different.  Furthermore, while I lament that some churches are designed in ways where the screen covers the iconostases, there are yet others where this isn't much of a problem, and thus less distracting.

Nevertheless, one weighs the pros and cons.  Would the icons of the Apostles be shown better, or would following along the liturgy while the icons of the Apostles be blocked better?  I choose the latter, especially since it's a bigger luxury for churches to have extra icons, such as those of the Apostles, than it is to provide the congregation with a sense of following along the liturgy without getting lost, and without constant complaints of people saying "I don't understand anything in the liturgy."  It would be great if EVERYTHING was in English, but at the moment, we make due with what we have until people are tolerant enough to have English, and the English is accurate enough for its theological depth.

Nothing is ever perfect in any place we go.  But we want people's intellect to be in prayer, a very important part of prayer.  You can only stare at an image of Christ for so long, and it would be sad when you stare and pray your own prayers, and not the prayers of the community together.  In fact, Coptic tradition has it that we even close our eyes in prayer.  In the end, whether books or screens, it should make no difference for the one who is proficient in the liturgy.

PS  There was a time when a small number led screen was above the iconostases indicating the page number in the book to help the people follow along.  This was before the advent of screens.
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« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2012, 09:59:50 AM »

i agree with salpy. we shouldn't get hung up on this one.
but if parts of the service are not in your language, u can't follow along in a bilingual service book if the liturgy is unfamiliar, as u don't know which bit they have just said.
but we should wind the screen up at the end of the service, so i can go and see saint matthias.
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« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2012, 12:29:18 PM »

Hi, I recently went to a few Orthodox churches and I noticed that they had projector or tv screens positioned immediately above the iconostasis or to the side of the iconostasis during the divine liturgy.

Everyone, when you are asking a question about a specific tradition or practice please be specific in identifying the Orthodox church. There are awide variety of churches that call themselves Orthodox with a wide variety of practices. In this case, something that seems to be common and acceptable amongst the Orientals is seen as a scandal amongst the Byzantine. It will make everyone's life easier if you add a modifier to Orthodox.
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« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2012, 11:54:34 PM »

This. Is. Deplorable.

I'd rather not understand a word of the Liturgy than have some ugly jumbotron up front. Now, I say this because I know the Liturgy in English now and will know what's happening and being said no matter what language it's in. If I go to a different Liturgy (like OO Liturgy) that I'm not too familiar with, you all still follow the same basic outline. I'll still know what's going on.

You know, I hated those screens as an evangelical! They're unsightly and distracting. The Liturgy is about the entire experience, not just reading the words off. I can read the Liturgy from the comfort of my couch. How about you WATCH and HEAR the Liturgy? It's just as important to see what is happening as to know what is being said.

People who complain and refuse to come to Liturgy for reasons like, "I can't follow along" or "it's too long" are always going to complain, because they only want to come to church when it's comfortable for them. Church isn't about being comfortable. If you want to be comfy...stay home. If you want to be saved, come to church.
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« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2012, 11:24:20 PM »

Hi, I recently went to a few Orthodox churches and I noticed that they had projector or tv screens positioned immediately above the iconostasis or to the side of the iconostasis during the divine liturgy.

Everyone, when you are asking a question about a specific tradition or practice please be specific in identifying the Orthodox church. There are awide variety of churches that call themselves Orthodox with a wide variety of practices. In this case, something that seems to be common and acceptable amongst the Orientals is seen as a scandal amongst the Byzantine. It will make everyone's life easier if you add a modifier to Orthodox.

Good point! Why is it considered a scandal amongst the byzantines?
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« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2012, 04:27:52 PM »

This. Is. Deplorable.

I'd rather not understand a word of the Liturgy than have some ugly jumbotron up front. Now, I say this because I know the Liturgy in English now and will know what's happening and being said no matter what language it's in. If I go to a different Liturgy (like OO Liturgy) that I'm not too familiar with, you all still follow the same basic outline. I'll still know what's going on.

You know, I hated those screens as an evangelical! They're unsightly and distracting. The Liturgy is about the entire experience, not just reading the words off. I can read the Liturgy from the comfort of my couch. How about you WATCH and HEAR the Liturgy? It's just as important to see what is happening as to know what is being said.

People who complain and refuse to come to Liturgy for reasons like, "I can't follow along" or "it's too long" are always going to complain, because they only want to come to church when it's comfortable for them. Church isn't about being comfortable. If you want to be comfy...stay home. If you want to be saved, come to church.

I absolutely agree.
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« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2012, 04:44:08 PM »

There is such a thing as what is tasteful and appropriate. I'm not sure that I want church to be the same atmosphere as a baseball game.

An air conditioner creates no such problem. A giganto screen and subtitles and whatnot? Yes it does. There is a difference.

I absolutely, positively, 100,000% agree.  This is stupid junk, borrowing from protestant mega churches.  Oh, God, help me.  I left all that stuff to become Orthodox and it's following me.  I think I'll probably wind up just worshipping in my house if this gets widespread. 
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« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2012, 05:12:45 PM »

There is such a thing as what is tasteful and appropriate. I'm not sure that I want church to be the same atmosphere as a baseball game.

An air conditioner creates no such problem. A giganto screen and subtitles and whatnot? Yes it does. There is a difference.

I absolutely, positively, 100,000% agree.  This is stupid junk, borrowing from protestant mega churches.  Oh, God, help me.  I left all that stuff to become Orthodox and it's following me.  I think I'll probably wind up just worshipping in my house if this gets widespread. 

I bet Gregory of Colorado wouldn't use no stinkin' tvs! You should give him a call, you could worship at your house, and even have a shot at becoming bishop if you play your cards right.
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« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2012, 05:29:51 PM »

There are two parishes in my area that have no projectors, no microphones, no dimmable lights, no service books for the laity, and no air conditioning. And people still come—even The Youth™ !
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