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Author Topic: Turkey To Reopen Halki Seminary, Obama says  (Read 3315 times) Average Rating: 0
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88Devin12
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« on: March 26, 2012, 02:43:38 PM »

"http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2012/03/turkey-to-reopen-halki-seminary-obama.html

March 26, 2012
Ekathimerini

Turkey has decided to reopen a former Greek Orthodox seminary on an island off the Istanbul coast, according to a statement made by US President Barack Obama."

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_26/03/2012_434657
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2012, 02:55:20 PM »

Its also on the front page of Romfea.gr:
http://www.romfea.gr/
(website is in Greek)

http://www.romfea.gr/epikairotita/12030-erntogan-obama-epanaleitourgia-xalkis

Original:
"Ο πρόεδρος των Ηνωμένων Πολιτειών, Μπαράκ Ομπάμα, δήλωσε ότι ο πρωθυπουργός της Τουρκίας του ανακοίνωσε ότι θα επαναλειτουργήσει η Θεολογική Σχολή της Χάλκης, μετά τη συνάντησή του με τον Ταγίπ Ερντογάν, στη Σεούλ, όπου βρίσκονται για τη σύνοδο με θέμα την πυρηνική ασφάλεια."

Translation:
"The U.S. president, Barack Obama, said the prime minister of Turkey said it would reopen the Theological School of Halki, after meeting with Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in Seoul, where they are located on the summit on nuclear security."
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2012, 02:58:07 PM »

I hope this is true.

Thanks be to God!  angel
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2012, 03:01:14 PM »

Obviously we must give credit where it is due: Ronald Reagan.
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2012, 03:06:10 PM »

I also came across this on a Greek site, so I was - well, to be honest -  suspicious of the source.

Accordingly, I went to the official White House website and pulled down the President's remarks. http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/25/remarks-president-obama-and-prime-minister-erdogan-turkey-after-bilatera

He in fact did say this during a joint appearance yesterday in Seoul Korea following a Bilateral Meeting with Turkish Prime Mininster Erdogan.  Obama's meeting with Erdogan and the joint remarks came ahead of the international nuclear security summit in the South Korean capital.

President Obama:.... "Beyond those two specific issues, we had a wide-ranging conversation about our continued support of counterterrorism efforts, including the efforts that are taking place in Turkey with respect to the PKK.  We are very supportive of making sure that the kinds of terrorist attacks that we've seen in the past are not occurring.  I congratulated the Prime Minister on the efforts that he's made within Turkey to protect religious minorities.  I am pleased to hear of his decision to reopen the Halki Seminary. "

While Erdogan did not address this comment in his remarks, it is significant to note because yesterday was the  Feast of the Annunciation - the Greek National Holiday of independence from the Ottoman Turks. The timing of the remark and its inclusion by the President during the Nuclear Meetings in Seoul can not have been a coincidence as the significance of the date was surely known to both our State Department as well as the Turks.

Let us pray that this time, the Turks follow through.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 03:18:42 PM by podkarpatska » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2012, 03:17:47 PM »

I am waiting for at least something at goarch.org.
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2012, 03:20:13 PM »

Glory to God!
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« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2012, 03:20:39 PM »

I also came across this on a Greek site, so I was - well, to be honest -  suspicious of the source.

Accordingly, I went to the official White House website and pulled down the President's remarks. http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/25/remarks-president-obama-and-prime-minister-erdogan-turkey-after-bilatera

He in fact did say this during a joint appearance yesterday in Seoul Korea following a Bilateral Meeting with Turkish Prime Mininster Erdogan.  Obama's meeting with Erdogan and the joint remarks came ahead of the international nuclear security summit in the South Korean capital.

President Obama:.... "Beyond those two specific issues, we had a wide-ranging conversation about our continued support of counterterrorism efforts, including the efforts that are taking place in Turkey with respect to the PKK.  We are very supportive of making sure that the kinds of terrorist attacks that we've seen in the past are not occurring.  I congratulated the Prime Minister on the efforts that he's made within Turkey to protect religious minorities.  I am pleased to hear of his decision to reopen the Halki Seminary. "

While Erdogan did not address this comment in his remarks, it is significant to note because yesterday was the  Feast of the Annunciation - the Greek National Holiday of independence from the Ottoman Turks. The timing of the remark and its inclusion by the President during the Nuclear Meetings in Seoul can not have been a coincidence as the significance of the date was surely known to both our State Department as well as the Turks.

Let us pray that this time, the Turks follow through.

Apparently the President and Vice President met in a Press Conference with Archbishop Demetrios yesterday to celebrate Greek Independence. So I doubt this is coincidence.
http://www.goarch.org/news/greekindependence2012in-washington-en
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« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2012, 03:25:21 PM »

I also came across this on a Greek site, so I was - well, to be honest -  suspicious of the source.

Accordingly, I went to the official White House website and pulled down the President's remarks. http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/25/remarks-president-obama-and-prime-minister-erdogan-turkey-after-bilatera

He in fact did say this during a joint appearance yesterday in Seoul Korea following a Bilateral Meeting with Turkish Prime Mininster Erdogan.  Obama's meeting with Erdogan and the joint remarks came ahead of the international nuclear security summit in the South Korean capital.

President Obama:.... "Beyond those two specific issues, we had a wide-ranging conversation about our continued support of counterterrorism efforts, including the efforts that are taking place in Turkey with respect to the PKK.  We are very supportive of making sure that the kinds of terrorist attacks that we've seen in the past are not occurring.  I congratulated the Prime Minister on the efforts that he's made within Turkey to protect religious minorities.  I am pleased to hear of his decision to reopen the Halki Seminary. "

While Erdogan did not address this comment in his remarks, it is significant to note because yesterday was the  Feast of the Annunciation - the Greek National Holiday of independence from the Ottoman Turks. The timing of the remark and its inclusion by the President during the Nuclear Meetings in Seoul can not have been a coincidence as the significance of the date was surely known to both our State Department as well as the Turks.

Let us pray that this time, the Turks follow through.

Apparently the President and Vice President met in a Press Conference with Archbishop Demetrios yesterday to celebrate Greek Independence. So I doubt this is coincidence.
http://www.goarch.org/news/greekindependence2012in-washington-en

Correction: While Presidents are indeed powerful men, they still can't be in two places at once! The presser was on Thursday, the 22nd, before the President left for Korea!  Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2012, 03:27:02 PM »

I also came across this on a Greek site, so I was - well, to be honest -  suspicious of the source.

Accordingly, I went to the official White House website and pulled down the President's remarks. http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/25/remarks-president-obama-and-prime-minister-erdogan-turkey-after-bilatera

He in fact did say this during a joint appearance yesterday in Seoul Korea following a Bilateral Meeting with Turkish Prime Mininster Erdogan.  Obama's meeting with Erdogan and the joint remarks came ahead of the international nuclear security summit in the South Korean capital.

President Obama:.... "Beyond those two specific issues, we had a wide-ranging conversation about our continued support of counterterrorism efforts, including the efforts that are taking place in Turkey with respect to the PKK.  We are very supportive of making sure that the kinds of terrorist attacks that we've seen in the past are not occurring.  I congratulated the Prime Minister on the efforts that he's made within Turkey to protect religious minorities.  I am pleased to hear of his decision to reopen the Halki Seminary. "

While Erdogan did not address this comment in his remarks, it is significant to note because yesterday was the  Feast of the Annunciation - the Greek National Holiday of independence from the Ottoman Turks. The timing of the remark and its inclusion by the President during the Nuclear Meetings in Seoul can not have been a coincidence as the significance of the date was surely known to both our State Department as well as the Turks.

Let us pray that this time, the Turks follow through.

Apparently the President and Vice President met in a Press Conference with Archbishop Demetrios yesterday to celebrate Greek Independence. So I doubt this is coincidence.
http://www.goarch.org/news/greekindependence2012in-washington-en

Correction: While Presidents are indeed powerful men, they still can't be in two places at once! The presser was on Thursday, the 22nd, before the President left for Korea!  Smiley

LOL true, I assumed it was yesterday and that he left for Korea between last night and today... Sorry, i didn't read enough...
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« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2012, 03:32:25 PM »

Glory to Jesus Christ!
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« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2012, 03:39:35 PM »

I remain skeptical--not of what President Obama said but of the follow through by Turkey.
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« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2012, 03:43:07 PM »

I remain skeptical--not of what President Obama said but of the follow through by Turkey.

As President Reagan would have said, Trust,but verify!
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« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2012, 03:44:16 PM »

I remain skeptical--not of what President Obama said but of the follow through by Turkey.

good point...
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« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2012, 03:55:49 PM »

I am waiting for at least something at goarch.org.

I think the patriarch is to smart to even allow this issue to be publicly discussed before it actually happens. If he starts portraying this as a diplomatic victory the Turks will shut it down before it even opens its doors again.
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« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2012, 04:02:53 PM »

I am waiting for at least something at goarch.org.

I think the patriarch is to smart to even allow this issue to be publicly discussed before it actually happens. If he starts portraying this as a diplomatic victory the Turks will shut it down before it even opens its doors again.

another good point
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« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2012, 06:52:46 PM »

I remain skeptical--not of what President Obama said but of the follow through by Turkey.

My hangup is but a small one...When?
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« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2012, 08:00:21 PM »

It might happen but there's probably going to be some unacceptable restrictions placed on it.
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« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2012, 11:28:23 AM »

Ill believe it when I see it.

PP
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« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2012, 11:51:59 AM »

I don't see any mention from offical Turkish government sources that a promise was made to open up the seminary.  Isn't it all just wishful thinking?
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« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2012, 02:50:13 PM »

I don't see any mention from offical Turkish government sources that a promise was made to open up the seminary.  Isn't it all just wishful thinking?

could be. time will tell...
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« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2012, 11:19:44 PM »

Ill believe it when I see it.

PP

Ditto.
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« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2012, 11:23:52 PM »

I don't see any mention from offical Turkish government sources that a promise was made to open up the seminary.  Isn't it all just wishful thinking?

If the statement came from a Greek source or organizations like the Archons for example it might be wishful thinking. It is difficult for me to accept that any US President would make such a statement on the day which he made it (March 25th) unless the US had received assurances from the Turkish government that it was so. But I agree that I will believe it when it happens as talk is cheap.
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« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2012, 09:34:45 AM »

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-275582-reopening-of-greek-orthodox-seminary-back-on-agenda.html

Comments from Patriarch Bartholomew and Turkish authorities.
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« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2012, 10:22:13 AM »

I wonder if the the Patriarchate has been raising the money needed to open the School, and how much they need to raise? 

Will a prospective seminarian need an undergraduate degree as a prerequisite to enroll?
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« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2012, 10:39:37 AM »

I wonder if the the Patriarchate has been raising the money needed to open the School, and how much they need to raise?  

Will a prospective seminarian need an undergraduate degree as a prerequisite to enroll?

I am certain that the Archons of St. Andrew have substantial funds available for this purpose and will be able to muster large amounts of additional cash in short order. They have a lot of influential folks in that group and ones with green back dollars!

Of course the Turks are quite capable of playing games. I wouldn't be surprised if theological schools were only open to Turkish citizens! The EU would have an issue there, but that could delay things for another decade or two.
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« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2012, 10:46:35 AM »

I wonder if the the Patriarchate has been raising the money needed to open the School, and how much they need to raise?  

Will a prospective seminarian need an undergraduate degree as a prerequisite to enroll?

I am certain that the Archons of St. Andrew have substantial funds available for this purpose and will be able to muster large amounts of additional cash in short order. They have a lot of influential folks in that group and ones with green back dollars!

Of course the Turks are quite capable of playing games. I wouldn't be surprised if theological schools were only open to Turkish citizens! The EU would have an issue there, but that could delay things for another decade or two.
Possible.  If I were the EP I'd match them (and he has shown himself pretty shrewd in taking on the Turkish government) and fill the school with students if I had to raid every Greek retirement home in the Turkish Republic to do so.  And of course, sue in the meantime.
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« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2012, 10:49:11 AM »

Ill believe it when I see it.

PP

Ditto.
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« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2012, 10:51:39 AM »



The following comment is quite interesting. Seems like the start of haggling and not the end.

On Monday, Minister for EU Affairs Egemen Bağış also claimed that opening the seminary is an important issue in terms of minority rights in Turkey. Bağış also criticized Greece for not taking similar steps to protect the rights of its Turkish Muslim population.

“The opening of the seminary is not a threat for Turkey. It would, on the contrary, be an asset … While taking these steps, Turkey stressed the importance of concurrent initiatives by Greek authorities in terms extending religious rights of the Muslim population in Greece. Greece should be aware of its democratic responsibilities as an EU member country,” Bağış stated.
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« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2012, 03:40:09 PM »

Someone wake me up when the headlines read:

"Turkey To Reopen Halki Seminary, Turkey says"
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« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2012, 03:40:54 PM »

Someone wake me up when the headlines read:

"Turkey To Reopen Halki Seminary, Turkey says"
Meh, Ill be happy when Halki starts accepting applications for students.....

PP
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« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2012, 06:31:11 PM »

Someone wake me up when the headlines read:

"Turkey To Reopen Halki Seminary, Turkey says"
Meh, Ill be happy when Halki starts accepting applications for students.....

PP

I'll be happy when the first graduate comes through with his life (and diploma)!
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 06:31:23 PM by Ortho_cat » Logged
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« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2012, 08:10:06 PM »

This isn't Quetta we're talking about; it's modern Turkey.  

The AKP has been considerably less hostile than the Kemalists were.  I think it will open.  Erdogan & Co. are largely pragmatic and committed to growing Turkey's economy and diplomatic influence.  This is an unneeded thorn in its side, and one that carries little meaning other than symbolic.  Why not reopen a seminary on an island? It's not as if some sizeable Christian minority in Turkey will be energized by this.
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« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2012, 10:28:49 PM »

If Erdogan is so "pragmatic," why has it taken his administration over a decade to act on the Patriarchate's request to reopen Halki?  I recall that when he first ran for president and lost, his party was an Ismalist Party, which changed its name to be legally palatable in allegedly secular Turkey.  His wife wears a head covering in public in violation of Turkish law.
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« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2012, 02:08:38 AM »

Because few cared about the issue.  Acting on the request of the Patriarchate is one thing; acting on the request of the President of the United States (or State Department, EU reps, etc.) is quite another. 

It was this same secular law/government--the one AKP has been critical of--that closed Halki in the first place.

Yes, and minor brushes with secular Turkish law, as the one you described, have endeared the man and his wife to millions of Turks. Pragmatic doesn't mean doing what you think he should do.

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« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2012, 08:47:03 AM »

Because few cared about the issue.  Acting on the request of the Patriarchate is one thing; acting on the request of the President of the United States (or State Department, EU reps, etc.) is quite another. 

It was this same secular law/government--the one AKP has been critical of--that closed Halki in the first place.

Yes, and minor brushes with secular Turkish law, as the one you described, have endeared the man and his wife to millions of Turks. Pragmatic doesn't mean doing what you think he should do.



I am not claiming equivalence here as that would be absurd, but the comment about his wife's head covering is sort of odd sounding in an Orthodox forum. Many Orthodox women, particularly the more traditional ones and many young converts (and their little daughters) wear a shawl as a head covering. Should outsiders judge them by this?
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« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2012, 03:11:22 PM »

I remain skeptical--not of what President Obama said but of the follow through by Turkey.

My hangup is but a small one...When?

Now that gave me a good laugh.   Cheesy   Didn't Turkey say the same thing years ago?    
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« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2012, 03:13:48 PM »

I remain skeptical--not of what President Obama said but of the follow through by Turkey.

My hangup is but a small one...When?

Now that gave me a good laugh.   Cheesy   Didn't Turkey say the same thing years ago?    
I can imagine some Turk say, "When pigs fly....that's when"

PP
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"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
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« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2012, 03:27:01 PM »

This isn't Quetta we're talking about; it's modern Turkey.  

The AKP has been considerably less hostile than the Kemalists were.  I think it will open.  Erdogan & Co. are largely pragmatic and committed to growing Turkey's economy and diplomatic influence.  This is an unneeded thorn in its side, and one that carries little meaning other than symbolic.  Why not reopen a seminary on an island? It's not as if some sizeable Christian minority in Turkey will be energized by this.

If Erdogan goes against the previous Turkish attitudes and actually opens Halki, it will surprise me and many others as well.   But then again one never knows what the two New Ottomans Erdogan and Devotoglu will do in order to placate Obama for their own  territorial ambitions concerning Iraq and Syria.   Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 03:31:16 PM by Zenovia » Logged
Nikolaostheservant
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« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2012, 04:00:49 PM »

Devils advocate here;

Remember not to long ago Muslims wanted to open a mosq in Athens Greece??? And Greece blocked them.
remember Greeks hate Muslims in there country and the Muslims are treated very badly up to the point of beatings in public.
SO....i thnk Turkey will say ok we will open halki but you need to let their be a mosq or a few in Athens/Greece, or something to that nature.

I would love to see the seminary open, i would love to be one of the first to attend and graduate their, if able.
BUT, i really don't see the Greeks allowing a mosk in athens---so i don't see the seminary opening any time soon.


I do have a solution though,..........ready?

what if Turkey gets the hell out and returns Constantinople to the Greeks and while we are on the subject why don't they get the hell out of Cyprus and return it to the Cypriots!

Just sayn whats right.
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arimethea
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Does anyone really care what you think?


« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2012, 04:17:03 PM »

I wonder if the the Patriarchate has been raising the money needed to open the School, and how much they need to raise? 

Will a prospective seminarian need an undergraduate degree as a prerequisite to enroll?

There was a rumor several years ago, when it first started looking like Halki could re-open, that all of the Greek Archdiocese students at Holy Cross would be transferred to Halki when it reopened. Part of this rumor even suggested that Holy Cross would cease to exist and the entire campus would just be left with Hellenic College.

If you look up pictures of Halki you will see that it is ready to open the doors tomorrow. The class rooms are clean and set up with books sitting on the desk. There is a group of monks who live and take care of the facilities there. All they need is the faculty and students.
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Joseph
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« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2012, 04:21:53 PM »

Dear Nikolaos,

Christ is among us!

Hehehe...first of all Turkey keeps on making promises, and that is their MO: promises, but no action, so unfortunately, I would not hold my breath for the opening of Halki Seminary any time soon. They have promised this before....Hopefully I am wrong.

Secondly, I lived in Greece for a while and I do not think that Greeks treat Muslims badly and beat them up! Infact, Greeks treat Muslims pretty well considering... Ofcourse, we need to remember that Greece suffered 400 years under the Ottoman Muslim overlord. The wounds of bishops being publically skewered and burned like animals, and such acts are still not completely healed. We need to remember that Islam does nothing to accomodate Christians. Ask any Middle Eastern Christian living there today. The philosophy of Islam is to bring all 'infidels' under their control.

As far as Constantinople/Istanbul, do not worry, the prophecies of holy monastics tell us that it will once again be Orthodox. Infact, according to the holy Elder Paissios (+1996) you will probably be alive to see a great war in that part of the world. Russia will bring Orthodoxy back to the Mother City, and because of the great war, Turkey will need to remove its soldiers and tanks from Cyprus to fight on the mainland...therefore, Cyprus will see the Turks finally leave!

In Christ,
Alice

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Nikolaostheservant
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« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2012, 07:36:51 PM »

Dear Nikolaos,

Christ is among us!

Hehehe...first of all Turkey keeps on making promises, and that is their MO: promises, but no action, so unfortunately, I would not hold my breath for the opening of Halki Seminary any time soon. They have promised this before....Hopefully I am wrong.

Secondly, I lived in Greece for a while and I do not think that Greeks treat Muslims badly and beat them up! Infact, Greeks treat Muslims pretty well considering... Ofcourse, we need to remember that Greece suffered 400 years under the Ottoman Muslim overlord. The wounds of bishops being publically skewered and burned like animals, and such acts are still not completely healed. We need to remember that Islam does nothing to accomodate Christians. Ask any Middle Eastern Christian living there today. The philosophy of Islam is to bring all 'infidels' under their control.

As far as Constantinople/Istanbul, do not worry, the prophecies of holy monastics tell us that it will once again be Orthodox. Infact, according to the holy Elder Paissios (+1996) you will probably be alive to see a great war in that part of the world. Russia will bring Orthodoxy back to the Mother City, and because of the great war, Turkey will need to remove its soldiers and tanks from Cyprus to fight on the mainland...therefore, Cyprus will see the Turks finally leave!

In Christ,
Alice



Alice, your post gave me goose bumps and and almost brought tears to my eyes!

Wouldn't that be a beautiful thing to see in our lifetime? God willing it will all come true!

As far as the treatment of the Muslims in Greece, I'm not as lucky as you to live in Greece, i was just parroting what i have been told (family in greece)but i have seen a few youtub clips showing this.
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Alpo
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« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2012, 08:47:40 PM »

I can imagine some Turk say, "When pigs fly....that's when"

But pigs DO fly already.  police

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vorgos
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« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2012, 09:28:49 PM »

Turkish Minister: Greece Hinders Halki's Opening

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2012/03/turkish-minister-greece-hinders-halkis.html

So it's not likely to be any time soon I take it...
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