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Author Topic: The Daniel Fast (A Protestant Lent)  (Read 2620 times) Average Rating: 0
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GabrieltheCelt
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« on: March 23, 2012, 08:44:31 PM »

Hey y'all,


 Today, a co-worker was talking about something he called The Daniel Fast.  He said it was something his church was doing that lead up to Easter.  I explained that I thought it was great that they were observing Lent.  He didn't care for the comparison because, as he said, "It's not Lent; that's Catholic".  Riiiiiiiiiight.  Anyway, any y'all heard of this fast?  It's taken from the book of Daniel and is making inroads with Evangelical Protestants.  He said that they abstain from meat and dairy and they increase their prayers as they approach Easter. 

 In a way, it's interesting that they're searching for a way to bring more meaning into an otherwise somewhat dry and boring theology.  I explained to him that the Daniel Fast, while being a great opportunity, was not new and has been around for two thousand years.  He explained that, no, it's pretty new.  I explained that the name was new, but Eastern Christians follow the same regimen every Lent. 

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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2012, 08:55:59 PM »

lol Protestant lent
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2012, 09:29:32 PM »

The Incarnation was just a blip in history between the Old Testament and the time when the fluffy bunny comes with the candy.
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2012, 09:35:41 PM »

Wow, "...but ours go to 11.", oh I mean "...but ours is the Daniel Fast."  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2012, 09:39:56 PM »

Wow, "...but ours go to 11.", oh I mean "...but ours is the Daniel Fast."  Roll Eyes

 Cheesy Perfect!
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2012, 10:27:29 PM »

from what I understand, a "Daniel Fast" according to scripture is 3 weeks long and consists of only fruits and vegetables.

“In those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full weeks. I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.” Daniel 10:2, 3


Of course, in true American fashion, this idea is just ripe for someone to go off and write a book while making a ton of money off of it, complete with "product" testimonials:

http://daniel-fast.com/

http://danielfast.wordpress.com/daniel-fast-food-list/

other than no meat/meat products, none of this:

"All sweetenersincluding but not limited to sugar, raw sugar, honey, syrups, molasses, and cane juice.

All leavened bread including Ezekiel Bread (it contains yeast and honey) and baked goods.

All refined and processed food products including but not limited to artificial flavorings, food additives, chemicals, white rice, white flour, and foods that contain artificial preservatives.

All deep fried foods including but not limited to potato chips, French fries, corn chips.

All solid fats including shortening, margarine, lard and foods high in fat.

Beverages including but not limited to coffee, tea, herbal teas, carbonated beverages, energy drinks, and alcohol.

Remember, READ THE LABELS!"
(source: first link)
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2012, 11:25:29 PM »

from what I understand, a "Daniel Fast" according to scripture is 3 weeks long and consists of only fruits and vegetables.

“In those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full weeks. I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.” Daniel 10:2, 3


Of course, in true American fashion, this idea is just ripe for someone to go off and write a book while making a ton of money off of it, complete with "product" testimonials:

http://daniel-fast.com/

http://danielfast.wordpress.com/daniel-fast-food-list/

other than no meat/meat products, none of this:

"All sweetenersincluding but not limited to sugar, raw sugar, honey, syrups, molasses, and cane juice.

All leavened bread including Ezekiel Bread (it contains yeast and honey) and baked goods.

All refined and processed food products including but not limited to artificial flavorings, food additives, chemicals, white rice, white flour, and foods that contain artificial preservatives.

All deep fried foods including but not limited to potato chips, French fries, corn chips.

All solid fats including shortening, margarine, lard and foods high in fat.

Beverages including but not limited to coffee, tea, herbal teas, carbonated beverages, energy drinks, and alcohol.

Remember, READ THE LABELS!"
(source: first link)

...how do they get all of that out of that verse?
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2012, 11:28:29 PM »

Protestants are always just trying to reinvent Orthodoxy, they just don't know it.
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2012, 11:34:26 PM »

It's stricter than our Lent.  Shocked I would imagine that upon realizing this, a few will go convert to the true faith, i. e. the one with the strictest fasting out there
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2012, 11:35:09 PM »

Quote
“In those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full weeks. I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.” Daniel 10:2, 3

Hmm, do they also not anoint themselves/wash their face and hair, seeing as Jesus actually told to do so when we fast?
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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2012, 12:05:37 AM »

Quote
“In those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full weeks. I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.” Daniel 10:2, 3

Hmm, do they also not anoint themselves/wash their face and hair, seeing as Jesus actually told to do so when we fast?

Jesus seems irrelevant. I mean, He's a nice guy, but we're not sure what to do with what He left behind.
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2012, 12:06:36 AM »

Quote
“In those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full weeks. I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.” Daniel 10:2, 3

Hmm, do they also not anoint themselves/wash their face and hair, seeing as Jesus actually told to do so when we fast?

Jesus seems irrelevant. I mean, He's a nice guy, but we're not sure what to do with what He left behind.

What?
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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2012, 12:12:44 AM »

It's stricter than our Lent.  Shocked I would imagine that upon realizing this, a few will go convert to the true faith, i. e. the one with the strictest fasting out there

Not so if you consider the following from one of the websites....

Quote
One of the great things about the Daniel Fast is that you are not limited to any specific amount of food, but rather to the kinds of food you can eat.

Orthodox Lent is not just the types but the amount as well. This is not counting the other aspects of fasting that does not include food...
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« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2012, 12:18:39 AM »

Quote
“In those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full weeks. I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.” Daniel 10:2, 3

Hmm, do they also not anoint themselves/wash their face and hair, seeing as Jesus actually told to do so when we fast?

Jesus seems irrelevant. I mean, He's a nice guy, but we're not sure what to do with what He left behind.

What?

This is part of the modern Protestant trend of skipping the period of the New Testament Church and looking into Old Testament for their inspiration, therefore making Jesus irelevant.
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« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2012, 12:21:11 AM »

It's stricter than our Lent.  Shocked I would imagine that upon realizing this, a few will go convert to the true faith, i. e. the one with the strictest fasting out there

Not so if you consider the following from one of the websites....

Quote
One of the great things about the Daniel Fast is that you are not limited to any specific amount of food, but rather to the kinds of food you can eat.


Orthodox Lent is not just the types but the amount as well. This is not counting the other aspects of fasting that does not include food...
So we still beat them at fasting, no?
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2012, 12:33:25 AM »

My mom (Evangelical) has done the Daniel Fast a couple of times. I really don't remember what it entailed or why she did it, but I'll have to ask. Totally forgot about it until this thread.
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« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2012, 02:48:38 AM »

It's stricter than our Lent.  Shocked I would imagine that upon realizing this, a few will go convert to the true faith, i. e. the one with the strictest fasting out there

Not so if you consider the following from one of the websites....

Quote
One of the great things about the Daniel Fast is that you are not limited to any specific amount of food, but rather to the kinds of food you can eat.


Orthodox Lent is not just the types but the amount as well. This is not counting the other aspects of fasting that does not include food...
So we still beat them at fasting, no?

not to mention this is for 3 weeks, and our fast is for 7 weeks. those extra 4 weeks take a toll.

Of course, we are assuming a strict Orthodox fast, which would include no alcohol (which many disregard), and no oil (which many disregard).

No baked goods or leavened bread is pretty hardcore, though. But the idea of eating as much as you want almost makes it seem like some kind of new fangled diet rather than a spiritual based fasting regime...certainly one of the central tenants of fasting is to restrict your portions.
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« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2012, 02:53:30 AM »

Wow, "...but ours go to 11.", oh I mean "...but ours is the Daniel Fast."  Roll Eyes

 Cheesy Perfect!

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« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2012, 02:57:44 AM »

the idea of not allowing white rice or things with artificial preservatives is simply legalism at its finest. Its not like limiting these things would actually provide any kind of practical spiritual benefit (maybe a marginal health benefit if anything).

the note at the bottom says alot: "READ THE LABELS!" I can just see people getting on this kick, and spending 3 times as long in the grocery store reading the back of the labels on everything.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2012, 03:05:17 AM »

Protestants are always just trying to reinvent Orthodoxy, they just don't know it.

I think so. They get the thing nearly out of nowhere. It's because they lack of any... (sorry my bad english) practises ? (no offense)
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« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2012, 12:52:12 PM »

I believe the Scripture the Protestants get it from is Daniel 1.  Here are verses 11-16:

11 Then Daniel said to the steward whom the chief of the eunuchs had assigned over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, 12 “Test your servants for ten days; let us be given vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13 Then let our appearance and the appearance of the youths who eat the king's food be observed by you, and deal with your servants according to what you see.” 14 So he listened to them in this matter, and tested them for ten days. 15 At the end of ten days it was seen that they were better in appearance and fatter in flesh than all the youths who ate the king's food. 16  So the steward took away their food and the wine they were to drink, and gave them vegetables.  (ESV)

In chapter 10, Daniel wasn't eating and taking care of himself because he was mourning.
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« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2012, 01:27:44 PM »

i think the backbone of the idea does come from Daniel 10, since it is for 3 weeks not 10 days:

“In those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full weeks. I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.” Daniel 10:2, 3

you are right, it indicates mourning, and not sure this adequately describes what we should be doing up until Pascha (the proper state of mind). We experience sorrow, but there is joy and hopeful expectation mixed in with it...
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« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2012, 01:35:29 PM »

Of course, we are assuming a strict Orthodox fast, which would include no alcohol (which many disregard), and no oil (which many disregard).
The rule is: no wine and no olive oil. Even at monasteries, they are drinking beer and cooking with rapeseed or sunflower oil.
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« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2012, 01:38:18 PM »

I think it must be the neo-evangelicals who are into this sort of thing, because the older mainline Protestant churches (Lutheran, Anglican etc.) still do the Western Lent.
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« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2012, 01:47:28 PM »

Protestants are always just trying to reinvent Orthodoxy, they just don't know it.

 It's because they lack of any... (sorry my bad english) practises ? (no offense)

 The liturgical Protestants (Episcopal, Anglican, some Lutherans, etc...) seem to have some semblance of Tradition; my wife's family is Missouri Synod Lutheran and they have an Advent tradition.  Non-liturgical churches, such as Baptist (all varieties), Pentecostal (all varieties), Methodist, Presbyterians, etc... do not have any tradition that reaches further than 50 or so years ago, and that's still very rare.  Most of them will try and come up with a new idea and if it's popular then they'll use it for a few years until something else comes along.  I suspect the Daniel fast will last only until a new idea comes along.  And even then, not all Protestants will go along with it.  I'm fairly certain there will be those who deem this too Old Testament or getting close to Roman Catholicism.  

 Consider it axiomatic that most Protestants are trying to incorporate ideas that will get them closer to God.  Some will come close to Orthodoxy (as when I stumbled across an article on the Prayer of Jesus on a Baptist website), while others are so suspicious of Roman Catholicism that they forfeit anything that resembles it.  

 Hopefully, those that are incorporating the Daniel fast will do some research on Lent and then come across Eastern Orthodoxy.  
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« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2012, 01:50:43 PM »

I think it must be the neo-evangelicals who are into this sort of thing, because the older mainline Protestant churches (Lutheran, Anglican etc.) still do the Western Lent.

 My wife's family is Missouri Synod Lutheran (a very conservative, traditional branch of Lutheranism) and they absolutely do not follow any type of Lent.  Perhaps they once did, as they once had a type of Rosary.  And perhaps some Lutherans might still adhere to some Traditions.  But many do not.
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« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2012, 01:54:15 PM »

Ah, okay then.
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« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2012, 01:54:41 PM »

Of course, we are assuming a strict Orthodox fast, which would include no alcohol (which many disregard), and no oil (which many disregard).
The rule is: no wine and no olive oil. Even at monasteries, they are drinking beer and cooking with rapeseed or sunflower oil.

the idea of being able to drink beer (or vodka?) but not wine strikes me as...strangely legalistic. I've heard (at least in my parish) that wine extends to all alcohol. The oil thing, yes, i was referring to olive oil, my apologies.
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« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2012, 01:55:25 PM »

I think it must be the neo-evangelicals who are into this sort of thing, because the older mainline Protestant churches (Lutheran, Anglican etc.) still do the Western Lent.

 My wife's family is Missouri Synod Lutheran (a very conservative, traditional branch of Lutheranism) and they absolutely do not follow any type of Lent.  Perhaps they once did, as they once had a type of Rosary.  And perhaps some Lutherans might still adhere to some Traditions.  But many do not.

wait, Lutherans used to have rosaries? that's news to me, i thought they didn't practice prayer to the saints (especially Mary) lol
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« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2012, 01:58:25 PM »

Protestants are always just trying to reinvent Orthodoxy, they just don't know it.

 It's because they lack of any... (sorry my bad english) practises ? (no offense)

 The liturgical Protestants (Episcopal, Anglican, some Lutherans, etc...) seem to have some semblance of Tradition; my wife's family is Missouri Synod Lutheran and they have an Advent tradition.  Non-liturgical churches, such as Baptist (all varieties), Pentecostal (all varieties), Methodist, Presbyterians, etc... do not have any tradition that reaches further than 50 or so years ago, and that's still very rare.  Most of them will try and come up with a new idea and if it's popular then they'll use it for a few years until something else comes along.  I suspect the Daniel fast will last only until a new idea comes along.  And even then, not all Protestants will go along with it.  I'm fairly certain there will be those who deem this too Old Testament or getting close to Roman Catholicism.  

 Consider it axiomatic that most Protestants are trying to incorporate ideas that will get them closer to God.  Some will come close to Orthodoxy (as when I stumbled across an article on the Prayer of Jesus on a Baptist website), while others are so suspicious of Roman Catholicism that they forfeit anything that resembles it.  

 Hopefully, those that are incorporating the Daniel fast will do some research on Lent and then come across Eastern Orthodoxy.  

If anything, i think many protestants would refer to it as "works doctrine". That seems to imply that  you are doing it to try and "earn" your salvation.
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« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2012, 02:11:59 PM »

I think it must be the neo-evangelicals who are into this sort of thing, because the older mainline Protestant churches (Lutheran, Anglican etc.) still do the Western Lent.

 My wife's family is Missouri Synod Lutheran (a very conservative, traditional branch of Lutheranism) and they absolutely do not follow any type of Lent.  Perhaps they once did, as they once had a type of Rosary.  And perhaps some Lutherans might still adhere to some Traditions.  But many do not.

The LCMS church down the road follows both Advent and Lent.
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« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2012, 02:12:51 PM »

Protestants are always just trying to reinvent Orthodoxy, they just don't know it.

 It's because they lack of any... (sorry my bad english) practises ? (no offense)

 The liturgical Protestants (Episcopal, Anglican, some Lutherans, etc...) seem to have some semblance of Tradition; my wife's family is Missouri Synod Lutheran and they have an Advent tradition.  Non-liturgical churches, such as Baptist (all varieties), Pentecostal (all varieties), Methodist, Presbyterians, etc... do not have any tradition that reaches further than 50 or so years ago, and that's still very rare.  Most of them will try and come up with a new idea and if it's popular then they'll use it for a few years until something else comes along.  I suspect the Daniel fast will last only until a new idea comes along.  And even then, not all Protestants will go along with it.  I'm fairly certain there will be those who deem this too Old Testament or getting close to Roman Catholicism.  

 Consider it axiomatic that most Protestants are trying to incorporate ideas that will get them closer to God.  Some will come close to Orthodoxy (as when I stumbled across an article on the Prayer of Jesus on a Baptist website), while others are so suspicious of Roman Catholicism that they forfeit anything that resembles it.  

 Hopefully, those that are incorporating the Daniel fast will do some research on Lent and then come across Eastern Orthodoxy.  

If anything, i think many protestants would refer to it as "works doctrine". That seems to imply that  you are doing it to try and "earn" your salvation.

 "Works doctrine" is a great explanation.  Thanks.  And, I believe at one time Lutherans did say the Rosary while some are trying to revive the practice.  Here's a photo of Martin Chemnitz, a second generation Lutheran from the 1500's.  Notice his Rosary beads.
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« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2012, 02:15:29 PM »

i think the backbone of the idea does come from Daniel 10, since it is for 3 weeks not 10 days:

“In those days I, Daniel, was mourning three full weeks. I ate no pleasant food, no meat or wine came into my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.” Daniel 10:2, 3

you are right, it indicates mourning, and not sure this adequately describes what we should be doing up until Pascha (the proper state of mind). We experience sorrow, but there is joy and hopeful expectation mixed in with it...
I hadn't read the links.  You're right that it says says 21 days and lists ch. 10.  Fasting for religious reasons sounds more like ch. 1 than ch. 10.
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« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2012, 02:44:27 PM »

Of course, we are assuming a strict Orthodox fast, which would include no alcohol (which many disregard), and no oil (which many disregard).
The rule is: no wine and no olive oil. Even at monasteries, they are drinking beer and cooking with rapeseed or sunflower oil.

the idea of being able to drink beer (or vodka?) but not wine strikes me as...strangely legalistic.
Why? Do you not think that it might be for reasons other than the alcohol that wine was placed on the forbidden list some many centuries ago? (As an illustration of how understanding of the reasons for an abstinence rule can change over time, look at the Mormons. Originally, the Mormons forbade the consumption of hot drinks, to include coffee and tea. Now many Mormons apply this no-coffee rule to all caffeine, even though caffeine can be found in many cold drinks. Caffeine, however, had not yet been identified as the active ingredient in coffee during the time of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, iirc, and the ban was for other reasons connected to the heat of the drinks. Can this tendency toward changing understanding be the root of your application of the no-wine-during-Lent rule to all alcoholic beverages?)

I've heard (at least in my parish) that wine extends to all alcohol.
Maybe this is your priest's interpretation of the fasting rules, but I'm not aware that this interpretation is universal.
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« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2012, 03:06:19 PM »


I've heard (at least in my parish) that wine extends to all alcohol.
Maybe this is your priest's interpretation of the fasting rules, but I'm not aware that this interpretation is universal.
My experience is the same as Ortho_cat's. However, it is freely acknowledged that various interpretations of the rules do exist. And I don't find that surprising. North American Orthodoxy is quite the mix of ethnic traditions that have been thrust together rather haphazardly. It will take a couple of generations before there is a relatively uniform interpretation of this and other matters.

Disclaimer: I don't use alcoholic beverages other than an occasional glass of wine in any case, so I'm quite happy to let others sort this out  Wink.
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« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2012, 03:16:18 PM »

Most of them will try and come up with a new idea and if it's popular then they'll use it for a few years until something else comes along.  I suspect the Daniel fast will last only until a new idea comes along.  And even then, not all Protestants will go along with it.  I'm fairly certain there will be those who deem this too Old Testament or getting close to Roman Catholicism.

Most likely the Protestant Churches that do accept it and the ones that reject it will just further break apart into new Protestant Churches until the next new Protestant idea comes along and the process is repeated.
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« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2012, 03:29:32 PM »

Of course, we are assuming a strict Orthodox fast, which would include no alcohol (which many disregard), and no oil (which many disregard).
The rule is: no wine and no olive oil. Even at monasteries, they are drinking beer and cooking with rapeseed or sunflower oil.

Depends on the monastery.
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« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2012, 04:22:03 PM »

I've struggled quite alot to cultivate compassion and understanding for the protestants.  The largest stumbling block for me is their generally blatant ignorance of the history and tradition of the church.  In moments I am stricken by my own judgement of their way of life and worship and I must struggle to make the Lord's words my own: "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do", without  sinfully allowing these words to become yet another judgmental condescention.  This thread has reminded me of that.
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« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2012, 04:37:39 PM »

I've struggled quite alot to cultivate compassion and understanding for the protestants.  The largest stumbling block for me is their generally blatant ignorance of the history and tradition of the church.  In moments I am stricken by my own judgement of their way of life and worship and I must struggle to make the Lord's words my own: "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do", without  sinfully allowing these words to become yet another judgmental condescention.  This thread has reminded me of that.

 I've not had much trouble in cultivating compassion for them.  Most of my friends and co-workers are Protestant of some stripe.  I rejoice with them when good things happen and I cry with them when hardships befall them.  What I do have trouble with is a sort 'triumphalism' or snobbery.  Whenever I hear of things like the Daniel fast, I tend to laugh at them while at the same time be a bit incredulous.  Lord, have mercy upon me, a sinner.
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« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2012, 04:56:37 PM »

Of course, we are assuming a strict Orthodox fast, which would include no alcohol (which many disregard), and no oil (which many disregard).
The rule is: no wine and no olive oil. Even at monasteries, they are drinking beer and cooking with rapeseed or sunflower oil.

the idea of being able to drink beer (or vodka?) but not wine strikes me as...strangely legalistic.
Why? Do you not think that it might be for reasons other than the alcohol that wine was placed on the forbidden list some many centuries ago? (As an illustration of how understanding of the reasons for an abstinence rule can change over time, look at the Mormons. Originally, the Mormons forbade the consumption of hot drinks, to include coffee and tea. Now many Mormons apply this no-coffee rule to all caffeine, even though caffeine can be found in many cold drinks. Caffeine, however, had not yet been identified as the active ingredient in coffee during the time of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, iirc, and the ban was for other reasons connected to the heat of the drinks. Can this tendency toward changing understanding be the root of your application of the no-wine-during-Lent rule to all alcoholic beverages?)

I've heard (at least in my parish) that wine extends to all alcohol.
Maybe this is your priest's interpretation of the fasting rules, but I'm not aware that this interpretation is universal.

To me, it just makes sense to avoid alcohol during lent. Alcohol stirs up the passions, and can get us into trouble. Just one less thing to worry about distracting us on our lenten journey. It doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever that wine would be forbidden but other alcoholic varieties allowed. I mean really, who drinks wine these days compared to beer or liquor (especially in the US)?
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« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2012, 05:22:44 PM »

Of course, we are assuming a strict Orthodox fast, which would include no alcohol (which many disregard), and no oil (which many disregard).
The rule is: no wine and no olive oil. Even at monasteries, they are drinking beer and cooking with rapeseed or sunflower oil.

the idea of being able to drink beer (or vodka?) but not wine strikes me as...strangely legalistic.
Why? Do you not think that it might be for reasons other than the alcohol that wine was placed on the forbidden list some many centuries ago? (As an illustration of how understanding of the reasons for an abstinence rule can change over time, look at the Mormons. Originally, the Mormons forbade the consumption of hot drinks, to include coffee and tea. Now many Mormons apply this no-coffee rule to all caffeine, even though caffeine can be found in many cold drinks. Caffeine, however, had not yet been identified as the active ingredient in coffee during the time of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, iirc, and the ban was for other reasons connected to the heat of the drinks. Can this tendency toward changing understanding be the root of your application of the no-wine-during-Lent rule to all alcoholic beverages?)

I've heard (at least in my parish) that wine extends to all alcohol.
Maybe this is your priest's interpretation of the fasting rules, but I'm not aware that this interpretation is universal.

To me, it just makes sense to avoid alcohol during lent. Alcohol stirs up the passions, and can get us into trouble. Just one less thing to worry about distracting us on our lenten journey.
True. I suppose this is a legitimate concern.

It doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever that wine would be forbidden but other alcoholic varieties allowed.
I suppose that's because you see wine and beer solely as sources of alcohol. I get the impression from my limited knowledge of history that before the advent of modern water purification methods, people drank a lot of beer simply because it was their most reliable source of drinkable water.

I mean really, who drinks wine these days compared to beer or liquor (especially in the US)?
Don't you think that's a hasty generalization? ISTM a lot of people, especially those with greater means, drink wine. Beer seems to be more often the drink of choice among the poor and lower middle class.
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« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2012, 05:42:25 PM »

Of course, we are assuming a strict Orthodox fast, which would include no alcohol (which many disregard), and no oil (which many disregard).
The rule is: no wine and no olive oil. Even at monasteries, they are drinking beer and cooking with rapeseed or sunflower oil.

the idea of being able to drink beer (or vodka?) but not wine strikes me as...strangely legalistic.
Why? Do you not think that it might be for reasons other than the alcohol that wine was placed on the forbidden list some many centuries ago? (As an illustration of how understanding of the reasons for an abstinence rule can change over time, look at the Mormons. Originally, the Mormons forbade the consumption of hot drinks, to include coffee and tea. Now many Mormons apply this no-coffee rule to all caffeine, even though caffeine can be found in many cold drinks. Caffeine, however, had not yet been identified as the active ingredient in coffee during the time of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, iirc, and the ban was for other reasons connected to the heat of the drinks. Can this tendency toward changing understanding be the root of your application of the no-wine-during-Lent rule to all alcoholic beverages?)

I've heard (at least in my parish) that wine extends to all alcohol.
Maybe this is your priest's interpretation of the fasting rules, but I'm not aware that this interpretation is universal.

To me, it just makes sense to avoid alcohol during lent. Alcohol stirs up the passions, and can get us into trouble. Just one less thing to worry about distracting us on our lenten journey.
True. I suppose this is a legitimate concern.

It doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever that wine would be forbidden but other alcoholic varieties allowed.
I suppose that's because you see wine and beer solely as sources of alcohol. I get the impression from my limited knowledge of history that before the advent of modern water purification methods, people drank a lot of beer simply because it was their most reliable source of drinkable water.

I mean really, who drinks wine these days compared to beer or liquor (especially in the US)?
Don't you think that's a hasty generalization? ISTM a lot of people, especially those with greater means, drink wine. Beer seems to be more often the drink of choice among the poor and lower middle class.

Perhaps it was hasty. Most people I know drink either liquor or beer, but that may not be representative.
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« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2012, 07:06:30 PM »

Many neo-Evangelical/post-Protestant groups are looking for ways to practice their faith more actively, while retaining their aversion to anything "traditional." So, there are groups that have fasts, but they won't call it Lent; people who are living essentially like friars, but deprecate monasticism; groups that do healing services with oil, but won't call it a sacrament.

As an aside for the Daniel Fast followers: if they wanted to be really Biblically hardcore, they might consider doing the Jesus Fast. They could go into the wilderness and live off the land for forty days. Grin
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« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2012, 08:04:27 PM »

Many neo-Evangelical/post-Protestant groups are looking for ways to practice their faith more actively, while retaining their aversion to anything "traditional." So, there are groups that have fasts, but they won't call it Lent; people who are living essentially like friars, but deprecate monasticism; groups that do healing services with oil, but won't call it a sacrament.

As an aside for the Daniel Fast followers: if they wanted to be really Biblically hardcore, they might consider doing the Jesus Fast. They could go into the wilderness and live off the land for forty days. Grin

i know a chick who said she ate nothing and drank only water for 40 days...
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« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2012, 08:37:33 PM »

Many neo-Evangelical/post-Protestant groups are looking for ways to practice their faith more actively, while retaining their aversion to anything "traditional." So, there are groups that have fasts, but they won't call it Lent; people who are living essentially like friars, but deprecate monasticism; groups that do healing services with oil, but won't call it a sacrament.

As an aside for the Daniel Fast followers: if they wanted to be really Biblically hardcore, they might consider doing the Jesus Fast. They could go into the wilderness and live off the land for forty days. Grin

i know a chick who said she ate nothing and drank only water for 40 days...

Yikes! That can kill you!

I know a priest who is eating no solid food this lent...trying to lose weight.
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